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View Full Version : A few things about FB that need looking at. Oleg please read...



TonyEH
02-27-2004, 04:28 AM
Hi Oleg. I have enjoyed IL-2 and FB for years now, in fact its really the only game I play on a regular basis, but there are a few things in the game that are making it difficult to continue getting the same enjoyment out of the offline game as I have in the past.

1. The 109's radiator. Quite simply its FAR FAR too weak. I know that it was a weak spot in real life, however in the game it is simply ridiculous. The weakness of it makes flying both in a 109 and against the 109 a very unenjoyable experience. Quite simply ANY battle regardless of the skill level or the plane type results in several 109's downed because of hits to the radiator. Ace Luftwaffe pilots are wasted because some novice VVS pilot has got one hit on the 109's radiator in EVERY combat mission. The AI simply are not quick enough to get out of the way of bullets (more about that later). Also when I fly in a VVS aircraft against 109's, I have no trouble at all down several in each pass, because no matter where I shoot, I seem to hit the 109's radiator. This makes flying for the VVS no challenge at all in the years 1941 to 1942 when flying for the VVS should e the greatest challenge in the game.

PLEASE in the interest of ballance and for the longevity of the game, increase the toughness of the 109's radiator a bit. Or at least make it harder to hit. Because as it stands, it is becoming very boring flying against them as they are no threat at all.

2.Increase the fighter pilots reaction time when under fire. Far too often a target will sit and take fire from behind and DO NOTHING but fly straight an level until it is shot down. This is just not acceptable. There must be something you can do to make the pilots take evasive action against fire. From NOVICE to ACE, aircraft are continually lost due to this silly practice of flying straight when under fire. There must be something you can do to quicken the reaction time of the AI fighter pilots.

3.In the mission builder, is there any way to increase the number of planes in a flight. At the moment the player can only choose 4 planes per flight. Can this not be increased to 8 or more? Surely this can be done.

4.Can you decrease the AI's line of sight? At the moment the AI can see about 5 or 6 km's or more. This means that the don't break from combat and makes every combat a fight to the death. If the AI broke from combat when the plane reaches a certain distance say 4km, it would be possible for a player and his squad to retreat from a battle. As it stands the AI will chase you all accross the map and never go away. Reducing the AI's line of sight to about 4km will make the AI break from combat and consequently make FB more realistic and allow the combatants to disengage from combat, if things are going badly.

5.Finally, something MUST be done about the amount of collisions that happen in the game. It happens FAR, FAR too often and the player lose's AI pilots and their own pilot all the time. FB needs to have its flight's spaced futher apart. Is that so hard to do?

I hope you read this Oleg as I think that these are important fixes that need implementing in the game. Perhaps the 1.24 patch can address these? Please let me know your opinions on these matters.

Thank You
Tony

TonyEH
02-27-2004, 04:28 AM
Hi Oleg. I have enjoyed IL-2 and FB for years now, in fact its really the only game I play on a regular basis, but there are a few things in the game that are making it difficult to continue getting the same enjoyment out of the offline game as I have in the past.

1. The 109's radiator. Quite simply its FAR FAR too weak. I know that it was a weak spot in real life, however in the game it is simply ridiculous. The weakness of it makes flying both in a 109 and against the 109 a very unenjoyable experience. Quite simply ANY battle regardless of the skill level or the plane type results in several 109's downed because of hits to the radiator. Ace Luftwaffe pilots are wasted because some novice VVS pilot has got one hit on the 109's radiator in EVERY combat mission. The AI simply are not quick enough to get out of the way of bullets (more about that later). Also when I fly in a VVS aircraft against 109's, I have no trouble at all down several in each pass, because no matter where I shoot, I seem to hit the 109's radiator. This makes flying for the VVS no challenge at all in the years 1941 to 1942 when flying for the VVS should e the greatest challenge in the game.

PLEASE in the interest of ballance and for the longevity of the game, increase the toughness of the 109's radiator a bit. Or at least make it harder to hit. Because as it stands, it is becoming very boring flying against them as they are no threat at all.

2.Increase the fighter pilots reaction time when under fire. Far too often a target will sit and take fire from behind and DO NOTHING but fly straight an level until it is shot down. This is just not acceptable. There must be something you can do to make the pilots take evasive action against fire. From NOVICE to ACE, aircraft are continually lost due to this silly practice of flying straight when under fire. There must be something you can do to quicken the reaction time of the AI fighter pilots.

3.In the mission builder, is there any way to increase the number of planes in a flight. At the moment the player can only choose 4 planes per flight. Can this not be increased to 8 or more? Surely this can be done.

4.Can you decrease the AI's line of sight? At the moment the AI can see about 5 or 6 km's or more. This means that the don't break from combat and makes every combat a fight to the death. If the AI broke from combat when the plane reaches a certain distance say 4km, it would be possible for a player and his squad to retreat from a battle. As it stands the AI will chase you all accross the map and never go away. Reducing the AI's line of sight to about 4km will make the AI break from combat and consequently make FB more realistic and allow the combatants to disengage from combat, if things are going badly.

5.Finally, something MUST be done about the amount of collisions that happen in the game. It happens FAR, FAR too often and the player lose's AI pilots and their own pilot all the time. FB needs to have its flight's spaced futher apart. Is that so hard to do?

I hope you read this Oleg as I think that these are important fixes that need implementing in the game. Perhaps the 1.24 patch can address these? Please let me know your opinions on these matters.

Thank You
Tony

TonyEH
03-01-2004, 09:04 AM
Bump

widgeon
03-01-2004, 09:24 AM
About inreasing AI reaction time; I disagree.

There are many anecdotal reports of planes not manuvering after taking fire when you read pilot accounts.

On the other end of the spectrum the ace and vet AI react before they would be able to see you in real life. I dont think increasing reaction time would solve many problems. AI just needs to become more complex, only computer power will allow that.

Widgeon

Lt.Davis
03-01-2004, 10:25 AM
The only thing that i want to say is, take away the AI eyes at the back, they seem like knowing you coming closer. When everytime i closing to Ai plane about 0.30 they like have another eyes at their back and turn after i have a good aim. If they have wingman spotted me, then i got nothing to say, but sometime when they are alone, they can know that your distant.

Speed is the KEY.

Kwiatos
03-01-2004, 10:26 AM
I hope FM and DM will be still corected in next patches and addons. In my opinin need coorect:
1> FM
a)Climb rate
- for example P-40, Lagg3 - too good
- Fw190 - to weak
b)Roll rate
c) FM some planes with damage wings - Fw190, P-40, Lagg3

2>DM
- some planes are still to tough - Ju87, Lagg3

Lt.Davis
03-01-2004, 10:30 AM
1> FM
a)Climb rate
- for example P-40, Lagg3 - too good

P-40 i agree but Lagg3- After 1.22i don't think so, it climb like a turtle when i play the campaign.

Speed is the KEY.

DangerForward
03-01-2004, 11:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TonyEH:
1. The 109's radiator. Quite simply its FAR FAR too weak. I know that it was a weak spot in real life, however in the game it is simply ridiculous. The weakness of it makes flying both in a 109 and against the 109 a very unenjoyable experience. Quite simply ANY battle regardless of the skill level or the plane type results in several 109's downed because of hits to the radiator. Ace Luftwaffe pilots are wasted because some novice VVS pilot has got one hit on the 109's radiator in EVERY combat mission. The AI simply are not quick enough to get out of the way of bullets (more about that later). Also when I fly in a VVS aircraft against 109's, I have no trouble at all down several in each pass, because no matter where I shoot, I seem to hit the 109's radiator. This makes flying for the VVS no challenge at all in the years 1941 to 1942 when flying for the VVS should e the greatest challenge in the game.

PLEASE in the interest of ballance and for the longevity of the game, increase the toughness of the 109's radiator a bit. Or at least make it harder to hit. Because as it stands, it is becoming very boring flying against them as they are no threat at all.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wouldn't be for changing the toughness of the radiator just to help balance. I've read that combat studies by the Germans blamed 50% of combat losses to hits to the cooling system. Maybe other planes are too tough on the other hand. I think it was performance and above all tactics/training that gave the Germans their great success early against Russia. If you want to experience tough 109 opponents, you might have to find a good online server.

DangerFoward

Bearcat99
03-01-2004, 02:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lt.Davis:
The only thing that i want to say is, take away the AI eyes at the back, they seem like knowing you coming closer. When everytime i closing to Ai plane about 0.30 they like have another eyes at their back and turn after i have a good aim. If they have wingman spotted me, then i got nothing to say, but sometime when they are alone, they can know that your distant.

Speed is the KEY.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sometimes....... not always....thats what I like about them. Its hard to sneak yup on the vets or Aces..but rookies? I do it all the time... sometimes I pepper them good before they even respond....

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RuzbasanG
03-01-2004, 10:09 PM
Oleg,
The flight model for the FW190 D-9 needs to be corrected. The D9 is constantly stalling during almost any turning during combat. The FW190 A-4 in seems much easier to fly then the D9. Is this correct?

Before patch 1.22 the situation was the opposite. Then the D9 was a joy to fly and the A4 was constantly stalling.

Are you planning to fix the flight model for the FW190 D9 in an upcoming patch?

Thanks
Ruzbasan

WWMaxGunz
03-02-2004, 08:47 AM
I've only noticed 190 stalling when the speed got low with the power high, which is real btw. IIRC the torque roll should be to the left from accounts I've read. 300kph is not fast as some people seem to think, it is very slow for any combat in all but the lightest, most turnable planes.

The AI pilots vary and as has been pointed out, when you get green pilots for targets they will notice little and do less. That is a realism thing.

And the 109-radiator thing... I just dunno.


Neal

Oleg_Maddox
03-02-2004, 09:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lt.Davis:
The only thing that i want to say is, take away the AI eyes at the back, they seem like knowing you coming closer. When everytime i closing to Ai plane about 0.30 they like have another eyes at their back and turn after i have a good aim. If they have wingman spotted me, then i got nothing to say, but sometime when they are alone, they can know that your distant.

Speed is the KEY.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry. AI don't get Blackout. They simply don't make such maneuvers that will fully take them our of mind (balck screen). This is a rule in code. So you are wrong about it.
Another things that you try to catch AI and reach more than critial walues becasue you gove over that rubicon comparing to AI.

Oleg_Maddox
03-02-2004, 09:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TonyEH:
Hi Oleg. I have enjoyed IL-2 and FB for years now, in fact its really the only game I play on a regular basis, but there are a few things in the game that are making it difficult to continue getting the same enjoyment out of the offline game as I have in the past.

1. The 109's radiator. Quite simply its FAR FAR too weak. I know that it was a weak spot in real life, however in the game it is simply ridiculous. The weakness of it makes flying both in a 109 and against the 109 a very unenjoyable experience. Quite simply ANY battle regardless of the skill level or the plane type results in several 109's downed because of hits to the radiator. Ace Luftwaffe pilots are wasted because some novice VVS pilot has got one hit on the 109's radiator in EVERY combat mission. The AI simply are not quick enough to get out of the way of bullets (more about that later). Also when I fly in a VVS aircraft against 109's, I have no trouble at all down several in each pass, because no matter where I shoot, I seem to hit the 109's radiator. This makes flying for the VVS no challenge at all in the years 1941 to 1942 when flying for the VVS should e the greatest challenge in the game.

PLEASE in the interest of ballance and for the longevity of the game, increase the toughness of the 109's radiator a bit. Or at least make it harder to hit. Because as it stands, it is becoming very boring flying against them as they are no threat at all.

2.Increase the fighter pilots reaction time when under fire. Far too often a target will sit and take fire from behind and DO NOTHING but fly straight an level until it is shot down. This is just not acceptable. There must be something you can do to make the pilots take evasive action against fire. From NOVICE to ACE, aircraft are continually lost due to this silly practice of flying straight when under fire. There must be something you can do to quicken the reaction time of the AI fighter pilots.

3.In the mission builder, is there any way to increase the number of planes in a flight. At the moment the player can only choose 4 planes per flight. Can this not be increased to 8 or more? Surely this can be done.

4.Can you decrease the AI's line of sight? At the moment the AI can see about 5 or 6 km's or more. This means that the don't break from combat and makes every combat a fight to the death. If the AI broke from combat when the plane reaches a certain distance say 4km, it would be possible for a player and his squad to retreat from a battle. As it stands the AI will chase you all accross the map and never go away. Reducing the AI's line of sight to about 4km will make the AI break from combat and consequently make FB more realistic and allow the combatants to disengage from combat, if things are going badly.

5.Finally, something MUST be done about the amount of collisions that happen in the game. It happens FAR, FAR too often and the player lose's AI pilots and their own pilot all the time. FB needs to have its flight's spaced futher apart. Is that so hard to do?

I hope you read this Oleg as I think that these are important fixes that need implementing in the game. Perhaps the 1.24 patch can address these? Please let me know your opinions on these matters.

Thank You
Tony<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. Sorry the current balance not in the side of VVS... For this is enougn to visit VEF.
I have reports there from both sides and can make my own opinion about it.
The planes that has complex damage model has these device modelled so it dosnt matter which one is VVS or LW. You need to specify more, but not only name me just one 109. VVS planes has a lot of aircraft from I-153 to La-7....

2. Incorrect solution. And I don't saw the track that show it. I think that AI was wounded witht he first shots and then he has really slow reaction.

3. No. Its a system, that crossed a lot of things from speech to landing code, etc... Including team AI in missions. You offer me to rework a lot. That may take months.

4. Wrong solution about distance. Here is all Ok.
The AI disengage in following cases:
1. If they are not under attack,
2. If they got the command and not under attack
3. If they have low fuel.
4. If they are empty of ammo.

And at first if you like to get more proper execution of command you need to ask them regroup before to say disengage, Return to home base, etc.. In this case it will work beter.

So the AI behavior in this case works only for the on target - to escape looses. If you will say disengage when they are under attack and they will stupidly execute it then Enemy will kill then tright from that moment.

So there are a lot mor cross functions that are not visible for you. And AI is far more complex then you even think. Sorry don't offend on me. I tell you real things.

5. We did it in 1.22. And we did more in AEP. So in camapigns it should not happen to often. However if you will do yourself incorrect shhrp turns of waipoints in FMB then you will get it anyway. Simply becasue the first thing they will do - read waipont changes and only then they will try to loose formation for a turn. and if the turn made too shrp then no one case will save you for a collision. AI isn't a hunman and they some fixed sequence of prioritets.

robban75
03-02-2004, 09:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RuzbasanG:
Oleg,
The flight model for the FW190 D-9 needs to be corrected. The D9 is constantly stalling during almost any turning during combat. The FW190 A-4 in seems much easier to fly then the D9. Is this correct?

Before patch 1.22 the situation was the opposite. Then the D9 was a joy to fly and the A4 was constantly stalling.

Are you planning to fix the flight model for the FW190 D9 in an upcoming patch?

Thanks
Ruzbasan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The D9 '45 stalls much easier than the '44 D-9 for some reason. The D-9 had a higher wingloading than the A-4, but it had much more power plus a more efficient propeller. What strikes me is how heavy the Fw 190 family is during pitch. The P-51 didn't have a much lower wingloading compared to the Fw 190A-4 yet it is as light as an La-7 in the pitch. I tend to believe that the Fw 190 family is the best modelled planes in FB, especially when the feeling of high wingloading is concerned.
But that's just a feeling of mine. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Mike_Green
03-02-2004, 10:03 AM
&gt; Lt.Davis said:
&gt;The only thing that i want to say is, take away the AI eyes at the back, they seem like knowing you coming closer. When everytime i closing to Ai plane about 0.30 they like have another eyes at their back and turn after i have a good aim.

&gt;Oleg said:
&gt;Sorry. AI don't get Blackout.


Lt.Davis wasn't talking about blackout, Oleg. He's talking about the fact that AI does not need a line of sight to detect you - so they become aware of your presence if you are approaching from astern and below - 300M seems to be the critical distance.

This is a significant weakness in the AI, Lt.Davis, and means that AI will not be effected realistically by sun or cloud cover, and engagements continue for an unrealistically long time as the AI never loses sight of you. Oleg has stated that this is basic to the way AI works, and it's necessary to give acceptable processing speeds. It would be great if this could change in BoB: it would transform the offline game.

My thoughts on the original post -

&gt;PLEASE in the interest of ballance and for the longevity of the game, increase the toughness of the 109's radiator a bit. Or at least make it harder to hit.

It only takes a single bullet in a radiator to cripple a plane, so on the face of it this is perfectly realistic. Why, then, does it seem a disproportionate weakness? I think largely because engagements in FB go on an unrealistically long time, so durability becomes more important than it was in real life. Dogfights were the exception, not the rule, in WW2 air fighting. Especially in the offline game, planes with weak spots like a vulnerable radiator will not do well in the dogfight meat grinder.

I do not like the idea of adding an inaccuracy to balance out another one. So I think it's best left.


&gt;2.Increase the fighter pilots reaction time when under fire. Far too often a target will sit and take fire from behind and DO NOTHING but fly straight an level until it is shot down. This is just not acceptable.

My impression is that the AI can switch into a 'non-combat' mode - perhaps when out of ammo, or damaged - and as you say, it flies straight and level while you blow it out of the sky. This does seem unnecessarily unrealistic.

&gt;3.In the mission builder, is there any way to increase the number of planes in a flight. At the moment the player can only choose 4 planes per flight. Can this not be increased to 8 or more? Surely this can be done.

QMB is limited in all sorts of ways. Get uberdemon's mission generator. It is fantastic and can do a hundred things that QMB will never do.

&gt;4.Can you decrease the AI's line of sight? At the moment the AI can see about 5 or 6 km's or more. This means that the don't break from combat and makes every combat a fight to the death. If the AI broke from combat when the plane reaches a certain distance say 4km, it would be possible for a player and his squad to retreat from a battle.

This takes us back to the original comments I made about over-long engagements. I agree it would be nice if AI could lose sight of you every now and then. But my guess is we will have to wait for BoB to get progress on this.

&gt;5.Finally, something MUST be done about the amount of collisions that happen in the game. It happens FAR, FAR too often and the player lose's AI pilots and their own pilot all the time. FB needs to have its flight's spaced futher apart. Is that so hard to do?

if you are commanding a flight, instruct your flight to loosen formation. Consider changing formation for the manouvering you are doing: for instance, use echelon left if you are in a clockwise circuit. Manouver gently and cleanly. Remember that midair collisions did occur sometimes.
For some reason I don't find this too much of a problem, but I see a lot of people post about this so I think it is a genuine problem.

&gt; Perhaps the 1.24 patch can address these?

It's my understanding there will be no more patches. Is this correct?

Previously known round these parts as mikeyg007

[This message was edited by Mike_Green on Tue March 02 2004 at 09:12 AM.]

SeaFireLIV
03-02-2004, 10:17 AM
It`s good to hear that collision avoidance is improved in AEP further.
as for the other complaints.

1. I really can`t agree on this radiator thing.

2. This fighter reaction thing is wrong. It depends often on the fighter experience and of course if hit or not. I mostly find that most fighters react before I can even open fire! I like the grades of experience.

However a `deafness` should be included for AI pilots, so it`s possible to sneak on them.

3. No comment on Mission builder. I don`t use it.

4. In my view, it`s very hard to disengage from combat, especially online against Humans. Still I have succeeded breaking off from Humans. I`ve also done it with AI, but only if I have a faster aircraft.

I guess this could be tweaked a little. The way I see if you are losing and the AI`s winning, it`s logical that the AI should try even harder to get you since it now tastes blood. Just the way most humans will act if you run away.
I had one guy (Human/online) chase me for 10 mins all the way to my base, even though he could not catch me- he still spent all the time to follow. So it`s not unrealistic.

5. Collisions have been a problem for some, but i have had very little, even fom FB 1.0 Why?

Well, I never make hard turns when flying in formation. I always order AI to open formation by 1 or 2 spaces. Then it almost never happens.
I have to agre with Oleg, AI aren`t Human and it is sometimes the User`s own lack of care.

But it seems improved with AEP. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

zugfuhrer
03-02-2004, 10:37 AM
AI dont get blackout?

Thoose mad rolls that the I-16 I-153 does when the enemy is on ther six certainly makes me blackout/Stall/crash when I try to copy them.

TonyEH
03-04-2004, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by Oleg...
&gt;&gt;&gt;1. Sorry the current balance not in the side of VVS... For this is enougn to visit VEF.
I have reports there from both sides and can make my own opinion about it.
The planes that has complex damage model has these device modelled so it dosnt matter which one is VVS or LW. You need to specify more, but not only name me just one 109. VVS planes has a lot of aircraft from I-153 to La-7....

2. Incorrect solution. And I don't saw the track that show it. I think that AI was wounded witht he first shots and then he has really slow reaction.

3. No. Its a system, that crossed a lot of things from speech to landing code, etc... Including team AI in missions. You offer me to rework a lot. That may take months.

4. Wrong solution about distance. Here is all Ok.
The AI disengage in following cases:
1. If they are not under attack,
2. If they got the command and not under attack
3. If they have low fuel.
4. If they are empty of ammo.

And at first if you like to get more proper execution of command you need to ask them regroup before to say disengage, Return to home base, etc.. In this case it will work beter.

So the AI behavior in this case works only for the on target - to escape looses. If you will say disengage when they are under attack and they will stupidly execute it then Enemy will kill then tright from that moment.

So there are a lot mor cross functions that are not visible for you. And AI is far more complex then you even think. Sorry don't offend on me. I tell you real things.

5. We did it in 1.22. And we did more in AEP. So in camapigns it should not happen to often. However if you will do yourself incorrect shhrp turns of waipoints in FMB then you will get it anyway. Simply becasue the first thing they will do - read waipont changes and only then they will try to loose formation for a turn. and if the turn made too shrp then no one case will save you for a collision. AI isn't a hunman and they some fixed sequence of prioritets.&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;
------------------------------------------------



Thanks very much for reading and replying Oleg. Its nice to know that your paying attention to the players concerns. I'll address some of your points.

1. I am not saying that the game is slanted in any way toward the VVS or anything, but my point about the BF109's (All versions of the 109) radiator is simply to point out that it is causing problems in the offline game because it is so absolutely weak. Ace pilots are getting lost far to often simply because they've been hit in their radiator even if they're attacked from behind an the radiator should be difficult to hit. This means it is almost pointless going into a dogfight with a 109. The AI just get slaughtered, because their radiator can be hit from any angle. If making the radiator tougher is out of the question, then could you possibly make it harder to hit? This would also make flying for the VVS more interesting as it would make a kill on a 109 harder to achieve than it is at the moment which is ridiculously easy, in ANY VVS aircraft, because the 109's radiator is so easy to hit. It reduces the challenge to the VVS player. The P-51 had a weak radiator too, but in the game it seems to be far harder to hit or is tougher than the 109's radiator.

2.I have seen many an AI pilot, with no damage at all fly straight and level while under attack, from Novice to Ace, and do nothing while being shot at. This mostly happens when the AI is being attacked by the AI. The next time I notice it in the game I shall post the track to you. But I still think that the reaction time of especially the Ace AI needs to be quickened, for the sake of challenge in the Offline game.

4.At the moment the (enemy) AI rarely, if ever, disengage. Because the fuel level is more than enough for the AI pilots to use on any of the maps (except the Leningrad map) then this is not a factor. Only if their ammo is expended, will they break from combat. Also the enemy AI do not give commands to their wingmen to break from combat. This means that combat goes on for an unrealistic amount of time and therefore becomes a fight to the death every time. I still think that reducing the AI's ability to "see" the enemy planes over 4KM etc makes breaking from combat impossible.

5. Glad to hear that the aircraft have been spaced better in AEP. I didn't notice much of an improvement in 1.22 however, it must be said.

Again. Thanks for reading and replying.

Tony

[This message was edited by TonyEH on Thu March 04 2004 at 08:03 AM.]

TonyEH
03-04-2004, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Mike_Green:
My thoughts on the original post -

&gt;PLEASE in the interest of ballance and for the longevity of the game, increase the toughness of the 109's radiator a bit. Or at least make it harder to hit.

It only takes a single bullet in a radiator to cripple a plane, so on the face of it this is perfectly realistic. Why, then, does it seem a disproportionate weakness? I think largely because engagements in FB go on an unrealistically long time, so durability becomes more important than it was in real life. Dogfights were the exception, not the rule, in WW2 air fighting. Especially in the offline game, planes with weak spots like a vulnerable radiator will not do well in the dogfight meat grinder.

I do not like the idea of adding an inaccuracy to balance out another one. So I think it's best left.


&gt;2.Increase the fighter pilots reaction time when under fire. Far too often a target will sit and take fire from behind and DO NOTHING but fly straight an level until it is shot down. This is just not acceptable.

My impression is that the AI can switch into a 'non-combat' mode - perhaps when out of ammo, or damaged - and as you say, it flies straight and level while you blow it out of the sky. This does seem unnecessarily unrealistic.

&gt;3.In the mission builder, is there any way to increase the number of planes in a flight. At the moment the player can only choose 4 planes per flight. Can this not be increased to 8 or more? Surely this can be done.

QMB is limited in all sorts of ways. Get uberdemon's mission generator. It is fantastic and can do a hundred things that QMB will never do.

&gt;4.Can you decrease the AI's line of sight? At the moment the AI can see about 5 or 6 km's or more. This means that the don't break from combat and makes every combat a fight to the death. If the AI broke from combat when the plane reaches a certain distance say 4km, it would be possible for a player and his squad to retreat from a battle.

This takes us back to the original comments I made about over-long engagements. I agree it would be nice if AI could lose sight of you every now and then. But my guess is we will have to wait for BoB to get progress on this.

&gt;5.Finally, something MUST be done about the amount of collisions that happen in the game. It happens FAR, FAR too often and the player lose's AI pilots and their own pilot all the time. FB needs to have its flight's spaced futher apart. Is that so hard to do?

if you are commanding a flight, instruct your flight to loosen formation. Consider changing formation for the manouvering you are doing: for instance, use echelon left if you are in a clockwise circuit. Manouver gently and cleanly. Remember that midair collisions did occur sometimes.
For some reason I don't find this too much of a problem, but I see a lot of people post about this so I think it is a genuine problem.

&gt; Perhaps the 1.24 patch can address these?

It's my understanding there will be no more patches. Is this correct?

Previously known round these parts as mikeyg007

[This message was edited by Mike_Green on Tue March 02 2004 at 09:12 AM.]
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I understand you reluctance to tamper with the radiator on the 109. But I see either toughening it up or making it more difficult to hit as the only way to make combat with a 109 a better experience than it is now. Simply put it is absurdly easy to knock one out of the sky. As I have said to Oleg, it seems that the 109's radiator can be hit from any angle its fired at. I've shot down countless 109's by hitting their radiator from behind!! Its making the game boring for the VVS player as its far too easy. And for the Luftwaffe its frustrating because half of your AI wingmen are wasted because they've had a bullet in their radiator from some I-16 or I153 etc shooting at them from behind. And as for attacking bombers, you might as well just forget it.

2. I know what you mean by the AI suddenly switching from combat mode to non combat mode, but what I mean is that in a lot of cases the AI simply don't get out of the line of fire when they are being attacked. Usually this seems to happen when its an attack on the AI by the enemy AI.

3. Unfortunately UBerdaemon's mision generator, as great as it is, doesn't make missions for the offline campaign, which is what I play the game for.

4. Waiting for BoB in 2 or 3 years is not an option for playing FB now. I still maintain that reducing the AI's ability to "see" over 3 or 4km will make combat something other than a "turn in circles til everyone's dead" type of senario and thus make dogfights somewhat survivable for the AI on both sides. It will reduce the absurd loss rates too and therefore be more realistic. Many a dogfight in WWII ended with no aircraft shot down and each enemy breaking and going home, because they lost sight of one another. This just doesn't happen in FB and it could and should.

5. I didn't find AI collisions a problem until I started to fly bombers. Quite simply I found I was losing aircraft 1 out of every 3 missions played. Even when I told the AI to open their formations up. But Oleg said that it has been improved in the AEP. So we'll have to wait and see.

Tony