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Xangr8
05-23-2017, 07:42 PM
I was going through the Isu pages on the ACWiki and this one (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Calculations#Examples) suggests that Minerva designed a device which could pretty much make the user(/entire Earth) jump universes (delving into the field of quantum physics here). This implies that the Isu were technologically advanced enough to be able to travel through multiple universes. I was wondering how long it might've taken them to reach such an advanced stage in evolution. Do you think they were capable of space travel?

HDinHB
05-23-2017, 07:45 PM
I would think if they could travel through space, time, or multiple dimensions, they wouldn't have been wiped out by a solar flare. Designing something isn't the same as getting it to work.

Xangr8
05-23-2017, 07:53 PM
I would think if they could travel through space, time, or multiple dimensions, they wouldn't have been wiped out by a solar flare. Designing something isn't the same as getting it to work.

But it's implied that when Minerva constructed the Eye, it was already too late. So she placed it in the vault to prevent the 2012 CME and it seemed to work well as demonstrated at the end of AC3.

joshoolhorst
05-23-2017, 08:46 PM
I can't see it on the wike can somebody exactly point out where it is?

If this is true than I seriously wonder how the humans defeated the Isu, I know they had some artefacts but a ENTIRE PLANET?

Xangr8
05-23-2017, 08:59 PM
I can't see it on the wike can somebody exactly point out where it is?

If this is true than I seriously wonder how the humans defeated the Isu, I know they had some artefacts but a ENTIRE PLANET?

It doesn't say that explicitly but it sort of implies that that what the Eye does.


Minerva constructed two builds of the Eye based on her studies; the first, to alter existence itself and prevent the Second Disaster

The only way which they could alter existence to prevent the disaster is if the entire planet is transferred to another universe wherein they avoided the CME.

joshoolhorst
05-23-2017, 09:41 PM
It doesn't say that explicitly but it sort of implies that that what the Eye does.



The only way which they could alter existence to prevent the disaster is if the entire planet is transferred to another universe wherein they avoided the CME.

Ooh sorry didn't read that XDDDD

M4ke_Off
05-23-2017, 10:04 PM
I do have one question about Sages

it mentions that Juno manipulated the human genetic code for Aita's memories to always stay alive

but how did she do that when humans were already created, cause if you remember she did this right before the toba catastrophe and towards the end of the human-isu war?

I assume she did this for future humans that were still being created? or she did it to captured humans which would later repopulate

ERICATHERINE
05-24-2017, 06:21 AM
I was going through the Isu pages on the ACWiki and this one (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Calculations#Examples) suggests that Minerva designed a device which could pretty much make the user(/entire Earth) jump universes (delving into the field of quantum physics here). This implies that the Isu were technologically advanced enough to be able to travel through multiple universes. I was wondering how long it might've taken them to reach such an advanced stage in evolution. Do you think they were capable of space travel?

No, I'm pretty sure you misunderstood. Just to be sure I was right (and I was) I checked your link. In fact they can't GO in a parallel universe. They only project some sort of hologram in other times and places by using a device that let's them see every differents parallel universe. Minerva Juno and Jupiter used it to search the one that had the most chances of the world being saved happening from their own universe and saw that the parallel universe where Desmond Miles was the one to save the world had the most chances of happening from their own universe. They then used that same machine to project themselves in an hologram form to in their futur at places and times where Desmond could saw speak and hear them, to lead him to the grand temple. ^-^

Xangr8
05-24-2017, 08:43 AM
No, I'm pretty sure you misunderstood. Just to be sure I was right (and I was) I checked your link. In fact they can't GO in a parallel universe. They only project some sort of hologram in other times and places by using a device that let's them see every differents parallel universe. Minerva Juno and Jupiter used it to search the one that had the most chances of the world being saved happening from their own universe and saw that the parallel universe where Desmond Miles was the one to save the world had the most chances of happening from their own universe. They then used that same machine to project themselves in an hologram form to in their futur at places and times where Desmond could saw speak and hear them, to lead him to the grand temple. ^-^

That sounds a lot more plausible than transferring entire planets through parallel universes XD

So, according to your explanation this can mean that the Capitoline Triad in Desmond's universe may or may not have tried contacting him through the Eye, but instead it could've been the Capitoline Triad from other parallel universes trying to contact the Desmond in the universe where the 2012 CME is avoided? If that was the case then Desmond wouldn't have needed to touch the Eye to stop the solar flare since in that universe the solar flare would've never hit the earth.

This is getting really complicated to wrap my head around. I like it XD

Sorrosyss
05-24-2017, 12:50 PM
I did a thread awhile back on multiple dimensions, but you are right they did evidently have devices that could jump between them. An Apple showed Connor and Washington an alternate reality. Even Juno said they had mastered the ability to jump forwards in time, and we know Abstergo has a time travel/dimension manipulating Piece of Eden in storage from the e-mails in AC1.

Still, as with most of their technology its never perfected seemingly. I think the writers deliberately left it open in that regard for whatever they may need. The space travel question is a good one. We know they created rockets, as they launched twelve apples into orbit - one ending up on the moon. I like to think that they could have created an 'ark' that is sitting in orbit somewhere with some members still in stasis. Perhaps tie it into the Black Knight satellite conspiracy theory. :p

ERICATHERINE
05-24-2017, 02:40 PM
I did a thread awhile back on multiple dimensions, but you are right they did evidently have devices that could jump between them. An Apple showed Connor and Washington an alternate reality. Even Juno said they had mastered the ability to jump forwards in time, and we know Abstergo has a time travel/dimension manipulating Piece of Eden in storage from the e-mails in AC1.

Still, as with most of their technology its never perfected seemingly. I think the writers deliberately left it open in that regard for whatever they may need. The space travel question is a good one. We know they created rockets, as they launched twelve apples into orbit - one ending up on the moon. I like to think that they could have created an 'ark' that is sitting in orbit somewhere with some members still in stasis. Perhaps tie it into the Black Knight satellite conspiracy theory. :p

Not to mention that Desmond nicknamed Juno a "space wizard", back in ac 3. Lol. That part, no matter how much dramatic it was, always make me laugh. XD

Elder-Kalakta
05-25-2017, 12:13 PM
The Isu couldn't jump to other dimensions, but they looked at the future and predicted it.

Think about you assessing the weather today and then calculating the probability that it's gonna rain tomorrow. It might rain, or it might be sunny (which is more likely in some areas as we approach summer.) The further you go into the future, the harder it is to predict things. We may predict tomorrow very well, but next week? Next month? Year? Decade?

The Isu had supreme intelligence and six senses, the sixth they literally (and maybe arrogantly) called "Knowledge."

A dog may not predict much further ahead of its current hour whereas man can predict years ahead.

Isu could predict millennia ahead due to being unimaginably more intelligent. They keep hammering the point to us that we will never comprehend them so the fact that they can send messages 75,000 years into the future and be frighteningly accurate (remember, Minerva is a recording, not the actual person. If Ezio didn't say anything, she would still be answering the questions he *should've* asked and it would've been awkward.)

Ezio: ....

Minerva: Many names, when I died it was Minerva, before that, Merva and Mera.

Ezio: ...

Minerva; Hehehe, no not gods, we simply came before.

Ezio: ... :confused:

Minerva: Our words are not meant for you!

Ezio: ...

Minerva: ENOUGH! :mad: You anchor him but please remain silent!

Ezio: I wasn't saying anything...

Minerva: *Looks at player* Listen... *plays rest of AC 2 ending*

The "parallel universes" are all just Isu calculations on what may have happened. They just choose the most probable path and stick to that one. "Will the flare happen in this year or that year? I think it's more likely in that year. The descendant is not going to be there on time, but I predict he will view his ancestor's memories. So in order to increase the chances of the descendant being there on time, I will contact this ancestor and explain everything to increase the odds of success."

Isu couldn't really time travel, Juno herself states this. That Piece of Eden that could manipulate time most likely skipped forward by a few seconds/minutes/hours. "We could not go back, but forward" as she said. And also to add to that, she means "we could look forward to see if we succeed but all the outcomes were the same." But this could also be us misunderstanding the technology. We may activate it to go forward and immediately assume that it can go back despite it not being able to. Heck, this may not even be able to time travel but just calculate a probability and we assume that it can time travel because of that.

Their space travel capabilities were just like ours, you see an Isu rocket in an Apple of Eden projection when Leonardo DaVinci turns it on and it looks just like human rockets today so they didn't have no super advanced UFOs or anything. Also they had the same planes like we do, wings with little engines on them and dropping bombs on enemies. They also had nuclear weapons. Remember Vidic's words about our inventions - "they were gifts Mr. Miles, gifts from Those Who Came Before."

I doubt they built an Ark because it would be far too risky, if the Solar Flare damages the ship's systems in orbit then those Isu would be stranded and starve to death. I suspect their space program wasn't advanced because they had no societal pressures to go out into space. They didn't damage their environment nor did they overpopulate so there really was no need. We're planning on going out there because we're humans and we breed like rabbits so we need the space.

Regarding how the solar flare got stopped, it may have been some sort of electromagnetic manipulation. Remember the rings they wore? It was one of their proposed solutions but Juno said that they had no time to build up the power to save themselves, but they could have stored such a battery somewhere to charge up enough energy to shield our world from the flare (they had lamps that were eternally lit by harvesting the energies of time itself moving forward, but only to power lamps and such. Give it 75,000 years to charge up a super shield and then this isn't too far fetched for them to do). There were still volcanoes and other damages caused as the second flare happened but the worst of it was averted due to our Earth being shielded.

Sorrosyss
05-25-2017, 05:05 PM
Mmm the artifact from AC1 e-mail;


Philadelphia Project - Data provided from Animus Subject Twelve indicates that the ship briefly manifested in a future state for approximately 18 minutes. It is unclear whether the timeline is consistent with or parallel to our own. Although we have recovered enough data to reconstruct and repair the original artifact used in the experiment, Administration has refused to move forward on the project, citing paradox concerns. Corporate policy remains in place: any objects found to interfere with or manipulate time must be contained. Artifact will be moved to secure storage.

This is what I was referring to though, I think its left deliberately vague on detail. I think they were experimenting with time travel, or dimensional travel, and could send things forward in time - but getting back to report of their success or failure was impossible. Hence why Juno says they could not find a way, and technically unless they themselves used it directly they would never know if it had worked.

Still, its pretty fascinating stuff. The dichotomy of a race that has laser guns but still rides around on camels never ceases to amuse.

Xangr8
05-25-2017, 09:19 PM
Regarding how the solar flare got stopped, it may have been some sort of electromagnetic manipulation. Remember the rings they wore? It was one of their proposed solutions but Juno said that they had no time to build up the power to save themselves, but they could have stored such a battery somewhere to charge up enough energy to shield our world from the flare (they had lamps that were eternally lit by harvesting the energies of time itself moving forward, but only to power lamps and such. Give it 75,000 years to charge up a super shield and then this isn't too far fetched for them to do). There were still volcanoes and other damages caused as the second flare happened but the worst of it was averted due to our Earth being shielded.

Well the solar flares are basically a ****-ton of charged particles which get through the earth's magnetic field. The earth is hit by CME's on a regular basis which usually get deflected but to prevent a solar flare on the same level as the one during the Toba Catastrophe, I assume that a magnetic field stronger than the earth's would have to be generated which would've had to encompass the entire earth to protect it. Now that I think about it, even if they were able to generate that field, why did Desmond need to be sacrificed for it? Why couldn't he have just activated the Eye and walked away? Maybe Juno rigged it to get one Assassin out of her path to total world domination?



Mmm the artifact from AC1 e-mail;



This is what I was referring to though, I think its left deliberately vague on detail. I think they were experimenting with time travel, or dimensional travel, and could send things forward in time - but getting back to report of their success or failure was impossible. Hence why Juno says they could not find a way, and technically unless they themselves used it directly they would never know if it had worked.

Still, its pretty fascinating stuff. The dichotomy of a race that has laser guns but still rides around on camels never ceases to amuse.


Wow this is really interesting! I really need to go through all the AC1 emails again. Been long since I last read them, which was probably during my first playthrough back in '09 XD

SixKeys
05-25-2017, 10:05 PM
The Isu couldn't jump to other dimensions, but they looked at the future and predicted it.

Think about you assessing the weather today and then calculating the probability that it's gonna rain tomorrow. It might rain, or it might be sunny (which is more likely in some areas as we approach summer.) The further you go into the future, the harder it is to predict things. We may predict tomorrow very well, but next week? Next month? Year? Decade?

The Isu had supreme intelligence and six senses, the sixth they literally (and maybe arrogantly) called "Knowledge."

A dog may not predict much further ahead of its current hour whereas man can predict years ahead.

Isu could predict millennia ahead due to being unimaginably more intelligent. They keep hammering the point to us that we will never comprehend them so the fact that they can send messages 75,000 years into the future and be frighteningly accurate (remember, Minerva is a recording, not the actual person. If Ezio didn't say anything, she would still be answering the questions he *should've* asked and it would've been awkward.)

Ezio: ....

Minerva: Many names, when I died it was Minerva, before that, Merva and Mera.

Ezio: ...

Minerva; Hehehe, no not gods, we simply came before.

Ezio: ... :confused:

Minerva: Our words are not meant for you!

Ezio: ...

Minerva: ENOUGH! :mad: You anchor him but please remain silent!

Ezio: I wasn't saying anything...

Minerva: *Looks at player* Listen... *plays rest of AC 2 ending*


My headcanon is that Isu "recordings" are more akin to an advanced AI speaking on their behalf. So they don't have canned responses that would play out the same no matter what, but the projection is more like an intelligent program set to run and respond to user prompts, like Ezio's questions. It has the personality of the person who designed it (Minerva), so it may get testy when Ezio's continued questioning interferes with its primary function, which is to provide information to Desmond.

Xangr8
05-25-2017, 10:19 PM
My headcanon is that Isu "recordings" are more akin to an advanced AI speaking on their behalf. So they don't have canned responses that would play out the same no matter what, but the projection is more like an intelligent program set to run and respond to user prompts, like Ezio's questions. It has the personality of the person who designed it (Minerva), so it may get testy when Ezio's continued questioning interferes with its primary function, which is to provide information to Desmond.

This is how I imagine it:

To contact someone in the future, the Isu has to take the alternate possibilities into account and accordingly record the message for them. It's pretty much like talking to them and not just a pre-recorded message because the recorder accounts for all the alternate possibilities, therefore, practically making it a conversation.So, when Minerva talked to Ezio underneath the Papal vault, or when Jupiter talked to Desmond inside the Synch Nexus, they were all pre-determined interactive conversations. It's like they knew what Desmond would ask and were able to 'talk' to him, for all practical purposes.

I believe that given the required number of variables involved, you can pretty much predict the future. I believe the Eye was some sort of supercomputer which could take all these variables into account and present the predictions with room for some error :P


When I think about it, it sounds like there's no actual thing as free-will when every action that you commit is predetermined and predictable, provided you have the required (millions or billions) variables involved. It almost seems mysticism. Well, the Pieces of Eden also seem like wizardry XD

EDIT: Holy moly. When you think about it even more, you realise that Minerva already knew how December 21, 2012 was going to end: Juno freed from the Temple with a cult following and Desmond dead with all her efforts in vain. This is dark. And sad.

Elder-Kalakta
05-27-2017, 08:37 PM
My headcanon is that Isu "recordings" are more akin to an advanced AI speaking on their behalf. So they don't have canned responses that would play out the same no matter what, but the projection is more like an intelligent program set to run and respond to user prompts, like Ezio's questions. It has the personality of the person who designed it (Minerva), so it may get testy when Ezio's continued questioning interferes with its primary function, which is to provide information to Desmond.

That's also a very interesting way of looking at it, SixKeys. Nice one.