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matt89connor
05-22-2017, 02:35 PM
Hey guys, are you ready for tomorrow?
I'm excited to use the Hattori Hanzo style shinobi :)
I think tomorrow we will see in dominion mode 90% of players use this new heroes XD, BE PREPARE XD

CandleInTheDark
05-22-2017, 02:46 PM
Yeah there was a flood of them when us season pass folk got them, it dwindled down over a few days and today you get games where there might be none of them, might be one or two. They are fun enough some people will keep them though.

TheNinefingers
05-22-2017, 02:47 PM
Eh, seemed like 90% of players had season pass for at least a few days there and games were filled with them already. I don't suspect it'll be much different.

DrinkinMyStella
05-22-2017, 02:50 PM
i use them both and hate then and hate playing against them, ill stick to my main.

Lord_Nirgal
05-22-2017, 02:54 PM
Hey guys, are you ready for tomorrow?
I'm excited to use the Hattori Hanzo style shinobi :)
I think tomorrow we will see in dominion mode 90% of players use this new heroes XD, BE PREPARE XD

just pointing out: hattori hanzo was a samurai not a shinobi, he was a swordman.

Egotistic_Ez
05-22-2017, 02:56 PM
I see an average of one other shinobi per game in dominion so I think that'll drop back down pretty fast by the end of the week. Everyonbe seems to ***** about them, yet they don;t seem overly popular really.

Centurions though, two per team per match on average I'd say currently, and I expect that to stay the same until they're nerfed, or possibly even increase.

Pincopallino097
05-22-2017, 02:57 PM
Hey guys, are you ready for tomorrow?
I'm excited to use the Hattori Hanzo style shinobi :)
I think tomorrow we will see in dominion mode 90% of players use this new heroes XD, BE PREPARE XD

I can't wait to make a praetorian style centurion for defenders and a calssic red one for attackers.

Gray360UK
05-22-2017, 03:33 PM
I am looking forward to tomorrow, yes. And I apologise to everyone in advance for all the cheese kills I am going to perform on them with my new Centurion, haha ;)

CandleInTheDark
05-22-2017, 03:50 PM
I am looking forward to tomorrow, yes. And I apologise to everyone in advance for all the cheese kills I am going to perform on them with my new Centurion, haha ;)

I would like to try centurion out but it would be competing for play time with my warden who I want in black armour lol since I am keeping with berserker and shinobi outside my peacekeeper main.

matt89connor
05-22-2017, 04:09 PM
just pointing out: hattori hanzo was a samurai not a shinobi, he was a swordman.

man! Are you serius? XD
He's 1 of the most famus ninja of JAP history XD, he unite the iga clan and the Koga clan, and he become shinobi master at 18 years old....maybe he fight with a sword, probably, and after several fight, the leader of Tokugawa clan, For his loyalty, gave to him the rank of samurai and became an official, but he is and remains a ninja in his heart

TheLastPandaa
05-22-2017, 04:41 PM
Time ago, when the new heroes where anounced i was super hyped with the centurion, but now, after knowing all he can do and knowing how easy is to counter him... not very excited tho. I will try him a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot on custom matches b4 spending those 15k steel. If he gives me a good feeling i will get it. if not... well, i guess i will save 15k steel. :rolleyes:

Edit to add: As a member of the glorious knight faction, i have 0 interest on the shinobi.
Deus vult.

Dude_of_Valor
05-22-2017, 04:47 PM
Time ago, when the new heroes where anounced i was super hyped with the centurion, but now, after knowing all he can do and knowing how easy is to counter him... not very excited tho. I will try him a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot on custom matches b4 spending those 15k steel. If he gives me a good feeling i will get it. if not... well, i guess i will save 15k steel. :rolleyes:

Edit to add: As a member of the glorious knight faction, i have 0 interest on the shinobi.
Deus vult.

I am in a similar position. Do want to try the Centurion out as have yet to find a hero that I enjoy aside from the Warden.

TheLastPandaa
05-22-2017, 04:52 PM
man! Are you serius? XD
He's 1 of the most famus ninja of JAP history XD, he unite the iga clan and the Koga clan, and he become shinobi master at 18 years old....maybe he fight with a sword, probably, and after several fight, the leader of Tokugawa clan, For his loyalty, gave to him the rank of samurai and became an official, but he is and remains a ninja in his heart

Actually there where a many Ninja (the correct term i think is Zinja) orders across all Japan and even if all of them were concected with an united filosofy and goals, i think their fighting styles where a bit diferent between them.

What i know tho, is that the main wep of the ninjas (zinjas) was the sword, but not a samurai sword. The zinja swords were shorter and thicker than a normal samurai sword, but they were trained to able to kill with many diferent weps and even with all types of domestic objects.

So in conclusion, there is no reason why a famuous ninja such Hattori coud not use a kusarigama (or even 2 at the same time) as a wep. So.... ENJOY YOUR ROLE PLAY! :D

Edit to add: if some one is interested in knowing more about the ninjas in a fun way, i recomen the reading of a book called Shiké written by Robert Shea. Awesome story and awesome documented. You will enjoy it for sure.:p

Supercool5150
05-22-2017, 05:03 PM
If you ever wanted to play a PK this week will be the time. With the two new heroes being the majority no one will be thinking about Pk's at least for awhile.

Lord_Nirgal
05-22-2017, 05:33 PM
man! Are you serius? XD
He's 1 of the most famus ninja of JAP history XD, he unite the iga clan and the Koga clan, and he become shinobi master at 18 years old....maybe he fight with a sword, probably, and after several fight, the leader of Tokugawa clan, For his loyalty, gave to him the rank of samurai and became an official, but he is and remains a ninja in his heart

my bad!!! gomenasai! you are right i have confused him with jubei and i don't know why!?!?!?

matt89connor
05-22-2017, 06:08 PM
Actually there where a many Ninja (the correct term i think is Zinja) orders across all Japan and even if all of them were concected with an united filosofy and goals, i think their fighting styles where a bit diferent between them.

What i know tho, is that the main wep of the ninjas (zinjas) was the sword, but not a samurai sword. The zinja swords were shorter and thicker than a normal samurai sword, but they were trained to able to kill with many diferent weps and even with all types of domestic objects.

So in conclusion, there is no reason why a famuous ninja such Hattori coud not use a kusarigama (or even 2 at the same time) as a wep. So.... ENJOY YOUR ROLE PLAY! :D

Edit to add: if some one is interested in knowing more about the ninjas in a fun way, i recomen the reading of a book called Shiké written by Robert Shea. Awesome story and awesome documented. You will enjoy it for sure.:p
thnks for the info of the ninja sword :), and yes, the kusarigama is a weapon than he usedn in the samurai warriors series so is more fun for me XD...about the Edit: i will search info of this book :) thank you :)

matt89connor
05-22-2017, 06:10 PM
my bad!!! gomenasai! you are right i have confused him with jubei and i don't know why!?!?!?

no problem man :)

Captain-Courage
05-22-2017, 06:34 PM
thnks for the info of the ninja sword :), and yes, the kusarigama is a weapon than he usedn in the samurai warriors series so is more fun for me XD...about the Edit: i will search info of this book :) thank you :)

Please stop with that weeb / hollywood ********
There was no "Ninja sword", or "Ninja to" or whatever you call it. Ninjas used katanas and / or wakizashis when they used swords. More seemingly wakizashis due to their smaller dimensions.

And they didn't fought samurai neither for the information.
They didn't met, they weren't supposed to, their purposes and fields of operation weren't the same at all.
That didn't prevent some famous historical figures, like the aforementioned Hattori Hanzo, to be the two at once, but he was a samurai by birth right, a noble. His father was a samurai in service of the Matsudaira clan (who will lately be well known as the Tokugawa clan) Please document yourself.

Finally, the way the kusarigama is depicted in the game is just .... Plainfully wrong. You never, ever use a kusarigama like that (they are not even kusarigamas to begin with)

Oh, and even if Koga and Iga have sometimes served the same clan (like in the Onin war during the Muromachi period), they are still separate Koryus as today. They were not reunited.

FootlessRhino
05-22-2017, 07:27 PM
I have a feeling that those who thought the flood of new classes is over will be unpleasantly surprised tomorrow, lol.

CandleInTheDark
05-22-2017, 07:30 PM
I have a feeling that those who thought the flood of new classes is over will be unpleasantly surprised tomorrow, lol.

Very likely, however I do think it will follow a similar pattern in that they will dwindle down over time.

TheLastPandaa
05-22-2017, 08:05 PM
Please stop with that weeb / hollywood ********
There was no "Ninja sword", or "Ninja to" or whatever you call it. Ninjas used katanas and / or wakizashis when they used swords. More seemingly wakizashis due to their smaller dimensions.

And they didn't fought samurai neither for the information.
They didn't met, they weren't supposed to, their purposes and fields of operation weren't the same at all.
That didn't prevent some famous historical figures, like the aforementioned Hattori Hanzo, to be the two at once, but he was a samurai by birth right, a noble. His father was a samurai in service of the Matsudaira clan (who will lately be well known as the Tokugawa clan) Please document yourself.

Finally, the way the kusarigama is depicted in the game is just .... Plainfully wrong. You never, ever use a kusarigama like that (they are not even kusarigamas to begin with)

Oh, and even if Koga and Iga have sometimes served the same clan (like in the Onin war during the Muromachi period), they are still separate Koryus as today. They were not reunited.

I encorage you to read some specialized book on the subject rather extracting all your knowledge (most of it erroneous by what i see) from wipipedia.

First of all, yes, there were ninja swords (not katanas by any means). In fact (depending on the order they belonged to, this I will say may vary slightly) at the end of the ritual in the passing from apprentices to real ninjas, they were given their own sword, three arrow with a bow and a code with the axioms of Ninja philosophy so they never forget it. Of course all of that was simbolic.

As for not killing samurais, you are wrong again. Generally, many ninjas were ordered to serve throughout their lives to one of the great noble families of feudal japon (samurais). If you take into account the number of internal conflicts that Japan has had (civil wars by Shogunato, the atempts of the mongolian invasion, exchange of emperors even when the japanese considered him a holly figure/ or a kami, etc.), it is more than certain that the Zinjas not only killed samurai of rival houses (specially from those houses who wonted to see the zinja cult destroyed), but also they became part of the army on the diferent wars they fought (another day if you want i can to tell you how they make war because it is super interesting. I dont want to make spoilers so i will only say here that duels (1vs1) was a very comon thing when 2 samurai armies had to fight one vs the other. Imagine those 2 armies watching that duels, one after an other. Awesome right? ).

About the Kusarigama, I do not know to what extent it was a frequent weapon to use, but you can be sure that any ninja from any order who had passed the initiation, had full knowledge of its use, besides the sword, the naguinata, the archery , and various forms of unarmed hand-to-hand combat.

Edit to add: I have no idea how a Kusarigama (or any variation of it) is used, but i trust you when you say that can not be used as the game shows.

dekot11
05-22-2017, 08:14 PM
Please stop with that weeb / hollywood ********
There was no "Ninja sword", or "Ninja to" or whatever you call it. Ninjas used katanas and / or wakizashis when they used swords. More seemingly wakizashis due to their smaller dimensions.

And they didn't fought samurai neither for the information.
They didn't met, they weren't supposed to, their purposes and fields of operation weren't the same at all.
That didn't prevent some famous historical figures, like the aforementioned Hattori Hanzo, to be the two at once, but he was a samurai by birth right, a noble. His father was a samurai in service of the Matsudaira clan (who will lately be well known as the Tokugawa clan) Please document yourself.

Finally, the way the kusarigama is depicted in the game is just .... Plainfully wrong. You never, ever use a kusarigama like that (they are not even kusarigamas to begin with)

Oh, and even if Koga and Iga have sometimes served the same clan (like in the Onin war during the Muromachi period), they are still separate Koryus as today. They were not reunited.

pretty sure he's joking. funny how that other guy is taking it seriously.

http://www.realultimatepower.net/

Ulrichvonbek111
05-22-2017, 08:15 PM
Please stop with that weeb / hollywood ********
There was no "Ninja sword", or "Ninja to" or whatever you call it. Ninjas used katanas and / or wakizashis when they used swords. More seemingly wakizashis due to their smaller dimensions.

And they didn't fought samurai neither for the information.
They didn't met, they weren't supposed to, their purposes and fields of operation weren't the same at all.
That didn't prevent some famous historical figures, like the aforementioned Hattori Hanzo, to be the two at once, but he was a samurai by birth right, a noble. His father was a samurai in service of the Matsudaira clan (who will lately be well known as the Tokugawa clan) Please document yourself.

Finally, the way the kusarigama is depicted in the game is just .... Plainfully wrong. You never, ever use a kusarigama like that (they are not even kusarigamas to begin with)

Oh, and even if Koga and Iga have sometimes served the same clan (like in the Onin war during the Muromachi period), they are still separate Koryus as today. They were not reunited.

Indeed Captain..
I have not agreed with many of your posts BUT WITH THIS ONE I TOTALLY AGREE 👺
Many people are ignorant to what the ninja were and capable of.
They were jack of all trades master of none..
The Samurai warrior was a highly skilled and disciplined swordsman and if faced in combat with ninja then there'd be no competition,,dead ninja.
Also in feudal Japan the ninja caste was regarded lower than the peasants,,and if encampments were found then they were put to death to the last.
Many clan lords used them but this carried great shame and many denied they'd employed their services...often resulting in the Lord covering his tracks and eradicating all proof with the slaughter of the entire ninja clan involved.
Yes they were skilled in espionage,,murder and were to be greatly feared,,but never given quater if caught.
Hollywood as usual greatly abused the true vision of the ninja and their craft.

TheLastPandaa
05-22-2017, 09:09 PM
Indeed Captain..
I have not agreed with many of your posts BUT WITH THIS ONE I TOTALLY AGREE ��
Many people are ignorant to what the ninja were and capable of.
They were jack of all trades master of none..
The Samurai warrior was a highly skilled and disciplined swordsman and if faced in combat with ninja then there'd be no competition,,dead ninja.
Also in feudal Japan the ninja caste was regarded lower than the peasants,,and if encampments were found then they were put to death to the last.
Many clan lords used them but this carried great shame and many denied they'd employed their services...often resulting in the Lord covering his tracks and eradicating all proof with the slaughter of the entire ninja clan involved.
Yes they were skilled in espionage,,murder and were to be greatly feared,,but never given quater if caught.
Hollywood as usual greatly abused the true vision of the ninja and their craft.


Indeed Captain..
I have not agreed with many of your posts BUT WITH THIS ONE I TOTALLY AGREE ��
Many people are ignorant to what the ninja were and capable of.
They were jack of all trades master of none..
The Samurai warrior was a highly skilled and disciplined swordsman and if faced in combat with ninja then there'd be no competition,,dead ninja.
Also in feudal Japan the ninja caste was regarded lower than the peasants,,and if encampments were found then they were put to death to the last.
Many clan lords used them but this carried great shame and many denied they'd employed their services...often resulting in the Lord covering his tracks and eradicating all proof with the slaughter of the entire ninja clan involved.
Yes they were skilled in espionage,,murder and were to be greatly feared,,but never given quater if caught.
Hollywood as usual greatly abused the true vision of the ninja and their craft.



Anyone who start the training from a child could became a ninja if he survided the training. In fact as you sayed, most of them were born peasanrs. But seems like you forgot that the ninjas were monks, and they were respected as such. In fact the ninja cult was very respected until a few time before the atempt of the mongolian invasion when they finally disapear from Japan and became part of the chinese resistance vs Kublai kan (Gengis Kan´s grandson and mongolian imperator, who before trying to invade japan, manage to take china).

About the samurai, yes, most of them were formidable warriors. But they where horrible as an united army. On the battlefield they fough individually with no concern of team fight. But that is not the point here.

As i sayed, most of them were very skilled, but it was known between the samurai that they had no chance vs a trained ninja. In fact it was one of the reasons why some of the most powerfull houses wonted them to disapear. Fear. Not only by the concept and because it was something that scaped to their control, but also by how the fight. They knew how hot fight with a long swor as well or even better than a samurai, but they were also trained in many other marcial disciplines. Samurais lived to serve their masters (no matter if his master was the chief of the familie or the shogun himself) and all they do is focus to server in the most honorable way acording to their karma. Ninjas did not. (i talk about this forward). Their training was brutal in many ways and most of the acolites did not survide to become real ninjas. Their training where not only only phisical but also mental and spiritual.

I you feel any real interest to learn about that subjet there founts on the japensese culture you can consult. From poetry, to "books", or also painting and ideography in general. You will see that way the real conception than the japanese had about the ninja cult before it became hated.

The popular believe about ninjas is that they were a bunch very skilled warriors on the art of stealth with their brain wash to follow orders at all cost or die in the atempt, but they were not. In fact their filosofy is very, very complex.

I will try to sumarise in englisg the best i can:
They belive in a concept related with Karma called The inner being (i think it can be translated that way). That being was something similiar to a Kami (a god) that dictates all the actions of a person. When a person was in sintony (very dificult thing) with his inner being, the results of his actions had no importance because they were the manifestation of his inner being. The only important thing was the actions on their selves. So, the only thing that mater is how you acepted your karma. Acepting it implies acting acording as the inner being. In that context, live or die, honor or dishonor, good or wrong, had no importance if someone acted moved by his inner being. That only is a significant diference between samurai filosophy, but once again, that conception of the life is one of the reasons of why ninjas were better warriors. Thay had no restrictions as fighters as the samurai had.

Remember that quote from assasins creed? "Nothing is true everything is permitted".
That is more or less one of the many consecuences of the ninja phylosofy.

Sry for the offtopic.:rolleyes:

Helnekromancer
05-22-2017, 09:35 PM
Holy **** i forgot everyone else get these 2 chucklefuccks tomorrow. Guess my Nobushi have to prepare her anus for the second wave of BS. xD

CandleInTheDark
05-22-2017, 09:38 PM
Holy **** i forgot everyone else get these 2 chucklefuccks tomorrow. Guess my Nobushi have to prepare her anus for the second wave of BS. xD

I suspect it will die down as quickly,especially when half the people who will try one find out they aren't the automatic 'I win' mode that some seem to be making out they are.

Helnekromancer
05-22-2017, 09:41 PM
I suspect it will die down as quickly,especially when half the people who will try one find out they aren't the automatic 'I win' mode that some seem to be making out they are.

I hope so, I already know (and hopefully everyone else by now), what to look out for. It's just annoying seeing them every game.

CandleInTheDark
05-22-2017, 09:44 PM
I hope so, I already know (and hopefully everyone else by now), what to look out for and what not it's just annoying seeing them every game.

Most of my games are only seeing one or two of them right now, when I am shinobi (currently working on warden to 2) I am sometimes the only season 2 character.

RatedChaotic
05-22-2017, 09:51 PM
Do they come available at 12am or is it more like a 4am ish release?

CandleInTheDark
05-22-2017, 10:08 PM
Do they come available at 12am or is it more like a 4am ish release?

I haven't heard anything official but my guess would be it will be their standard patch/maintenance time of 8am eastern.

UbiJurassic
05-23-2017, 12:05 AM
Actually there where a many Ninja (the correct term i think is Zinja) orders across all Japan and even if all of them were concected with an united filosofy and goals, i think their fighting styles where a bit diferent between them.

What i know tho, is that the main wep of the ninjas (zinjas) was the sword, but not a samurai sword. The zinja swords were shorter and thicker than a normal samurai sword, but they were trained to able to kill with many diferent weps and even with all types of domestic objects.

So in conclusion, there is no reason why a famuous ninja such Hattori coud not use a kusarigama (or even 2 at the same time) as a wep. So.... ENJOY YOUR ROLE PLAY! :D

Edit to add: if some one is interested in knowing more about the ninjas in a fun way, i recomen the reading of a book called Shiké written by Robert Shea. Awesome story and awesome documented. You will enjoy it for sure.:p

I learned something new today.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/sRWf3Oa9vW6Xu/giphy.gif?response_id=59236e5295a4570482c58162



Do they come available at 12am or is it more like a 4am ish release?

There should be a countdown when you select them in the hero customization menu.

RatedChaotic
05-23-2017, 02:00 AM
I haven't heard anything official but my guess would be it will be their standard patch/maintenance time of 8am eastern.

Darn..

Ulrichvonbek111
05-23-2017, 02:28 AM
Anyone who start the training from a child could became a ninja if he survided the training. In fact as you sayed, most of them were born peasanrs. But seems like you forgot that the ninjas were monks, and they were respected as such. In fact the ninja cult was very respected until a few time before the atempt of the mongolian invasion when they finally disapear from Japan and became part of the chinese resistance vs Kublai kan (Gengis Kan´s grandson and mongolian imperator, who before trying to invade japan, manage to take china).

About the samurai, yes, most of them were formidable warriors. But they where horrible as an united army. On the battlefield they fough individually with no concern of team fight. But that is not the point here.

As i sayed, most of them were very skilled, but it was known between the samurai that they had no chance vs a trained ninja. In fact it was one of the reasons why some of the most powerfull houses wonted them to disapear. Fear. Not only by the concept and because it was something that scaped to their control, but also by how the fight. They knew how hot fight with a long swor as well or even better than a samurai, but they were also trained in many other marcial disciplines. Samurais lived to serve their masters (no matter if his master was the chief of the familie or the shogun himself) and all they do is focus to server in the most honorable way acording to their karma. Ninjas did not. (i talk about this forward). Their training was brutal in many ways and most of the acolites did not survide to become real ninjas. Their training where not only only phisical but also mental and spiritual.

I you feel any real interest to learn about that subjet there founts on the japensese culture you can consult. From poetry, to "books", or also painting and ideography in general. You will see that way the real conception than the japanese had about the ninja cult before it became hated.

The popular believe about ninjas is that they were a bunch very skilled warriors on the art of stealth with their brain wash to follow orders at all cost or die in the atempt, but they were not. In fact their filosofy is very, very complex.

I will try to sumarise in englisg the best i can:
They belive in a concept related with Karma called The inner being (i think it can be translated that way). That being was something similiar to a Kami (a god) that dictates all the actions of a person. When a person was in sintony (very dificult thing) with his inner being, the results of his actions had no importance because they were the manifestation of his inner being. The only important thing was the actions on their selves. So, the only thing that mater is how you acepted your karma. Acepting it implies acting acording as the inner being. In that context, live or die, honor or dishonor, good or wrong, had no importance if someone acted moved by his inner being. That only is a significant diference between samurai filosophy, but once again, that conception of the life is one of the reasons of why ninjas were better warriors. Thay had no restrictions as fighters as the samurai had.

Remember that quote from assasins creed? "Nothing is true everything is permitted".
That is more or less one of the many consecuences of the ninja phylosofy.

Sry for the offtopic.:rolleyes:

What ???
You may have your views my friend but they're very far from the truth..
Check the Japanese history of the ninja (Tofugu).
You'll derive from what you read that some points you touch on are true whilst others are full of disillusionment. .
Please have a read and stop thinking you got it my friend.

As far as Assassins Creed quotations go,,well dream on,,we live in the real world.

👺👹

Play your centurion and enjoy...tin man ..

matt89connor
05-23-2017, 08:16 AM
wooow !! I just started this post just for fun...but i'm very happy to see history info from people who have search or study the feudal JAP and especially the shinobi ...what i know about it is from books like Shogun, and Musashi, and from wikipedia.
Now I'm spurred to increase my knowledge about it :)

Captain-Courage
05-23-2017, 10:19 AM
Anyone who start the training from a child could became a ninja if he survided the training. In fact as you sayed, most of them were born peasanrs. But seems like you forgot that the ninjas were monks, and they were respected as such. In fact the ninja cult was very respected until a few time before the atempt of the mongolian invasion when they finally disapear from Japan and became part of the chinese resistance vs Kublai kan (Gengis Kan´s grandson and mongolian imperator, who before trying to invade japan, manage to take china).

About the samurai, yes, most of them were formidable warriors. But they where horrible as an united army. On the battlefield they fough individually with no concern of team fight. But that is not the point here.

As i sayed, most of them were very skilled, but it was known between the samurai that they had no chance vs a trained ninja. In fact it was one of the reasons why some of the most powerfull houses wonted them to disapear. Fear. Not only by the concept and because it was something that scaped to their control, but also by how the fight. They knew how hot fight with a long swor as well or even better than a samurai, but they were also trained in many other marcial disciplines. Samurais lived to serve their masters (no matter if his master was the chief of the familie or the shogun himself) and all they do is focus to server in the most honorable way acording to their karma. Ninjas did not. (i talk about this forward). Their training was brutal in many ways and most of the acolites did not survide to become real ninjas. Their training where not only only phisical but also mental and spiritual.

I you feel any real interest to learn about that subjet there founts on the japensese culture you can consult. From poetry, to "books", or also painting and ideography in general. You will see that way the real conception than the japanese had about the ninja cult before it became hated.

The popular believe about ninjas is that they were a bunch very skilled warriors on the art of stealth with their brain wash to follow orders at all cost or die in the atempt, but they were not. In fact their filosofy is very, very complex.

I will try to sumarise in englisg the best i can:
They belive in a concept related with Karma called The inner being (i think it can be translated that way). That being was something similiar to a Kami (a god) that dictates all the actions of a person. When a person was in sintony (very dificult thing) with his inner being, the results of his actions had no importance because they were the manifestation of his inner being. The only important thing was the actions on their selves. So, the only thing that mater is how you acepted your karma. Acepting it implies acting acording as the inner being. In that context, live or die, honor or dishonor, good or wrong, had no importance if someone acted moved by his inner being. That only is a significant diference between samurai filosophy, but once again, that conception of the life is one of the reasons of why ninjas were better warriors. Thay had no restrictions as fighters as the samurai had.

Remember that quote from assasins creed? "Nothing is true everything is permitted".
That is more or less one of the many consecuences of the ninja phylosofy.

Sry for the offtopic.:rolleyes:

Yes .... but no.

First because yes, of course, some could have killed some samurai, since samurai were nobles, and nobles could be target of assasination contracts.
But their main purpose was intelligence. They were spies before anything else. And you don't have to call them them Zinjas. Nin Ja is the right japanese term following the on yomi reading used in edo period. Zinja I guess is basically more or less a derivation of the prononciation in mandarin chinese of the ideograms used in the word Nin Ja, so basically Ren Zhe, used by Shea in his novels, nothing more.This is not an actual way to name a ninja. Shinobi no mono would be correct if you don't use ninja. Not "zinja". This is a fictionnal term from a novelist. Shike is a novel, a fictional work, even if it's documented, not an accurate historical work at all. It's like I took Dracula and tell it's an accurate depiction of Vlad III life.
And you tell me to check my sources ? Please. And since you mentionned wikipedia, you know what the best part of any wikipedia article is actually ? The one that everybody is too ****ing lazzy to read, the bibliography. But my knowledge simply comes from my years of practice in martial arts, the readings and encounters I made thanks to that.

Anyways, ninjas and samurai weren't supposed to meet on the battlefield like what you can see in the game. Never. Simply because ninjas were not supposed to be on the battlefield in the first place.
It's like comparing a spy teamsquad and a cavalry batallion. They don't have the same purpose at all.

Regarding their techniques, it's actually hard to tell exactly which koryu used what techniques, and which koryu that's still here nowadays has an actual historical legacy, simply because ninjutsu koryus were never officially centralized and reunited, and that ninjustsu main focus is spying and furtivity techniques, not combat.
It's the same thing with numerous unknown koryus in Japan, where grandmasters are just totally unknown from the gerneral public, but also from people in the martial arts world (some grand masters are yakuza chiefs for example). And yes, their training was physical as much as mental and spiritual. Like in every traditionnal martial art. Nothing new.
And as the clans where never reunited, local beliefs were still strong in that time, and they had relations with other groups like the yamabushi or the sohei (the ones you call "monks") it's close to impossible to say "all Ninjas believed that", simply because historical sources are actually few and scattered. Quite logical from what was supposed to be secret orders.

For the samurai, it would be naive to believe that they were only trained in kenjutsu. They mastered numerous martial techniques and weapons : jujutsu, kyujutsu, yari jutsu, naginata jutsu (even if it became the Onna Bugeisha signature weapon).... Basically, a ninja hadn't that much chances face to face against a samurai fully equiped with his tosei gusoku. That's why he had to use deception and unorthodox tehcniques. But mostly, he would flee as soon as he has the occasion if his mission is not to actually kill said samurai. And if it is, then of course it wouldn't be in a face to face confrontation. That would be stupid for an assassination mission. They weren't sworn enemies at all like fantasy would like people to believe. They were just different corps with different purposes and uses. Spies and soldiers.

And said samurais weren't horrible as a united army. First because samurais were only a small part of said traditional armies, they were the officers, like knights in european armies.
The main part of japanese traditionnal armies was the ashigaru, the basic infrantryman. They are not the same.
And as I already said, a person could be the two at once. ninja and samurai.

Finally Assassin's Creed has nothing to do with ninjas. Its inspiration neither. That game inspirations are derived from the Hashshashins (the Nizaris) and Hassan ibn al Sabbah. Nothing to do with ninjas at all.



I learned something new today..

You learned nothing, it's fiction. Ninja To (ninja sword) didn't exist.

GladiatorHood
05-23-2017, 10:39 AM
Yes .... and no.

First because yes, of course, some could have killed some samurai, since samurai were nobles, and nobles could be target of assasination contract.
But their main purpose was intelligence. They were spies before anything else. And you don't have to call them them Zinjas. Nin Ja is right japanese term following the on yomi reading used in edo period. Zinja is basically more or less a prononciation of the mandarin chinese Ren Zhe from where the ideograms originates.
But, ninjas and samurai weren't supposed to meet on the battlefield. Never. Simply because ninjas were not supposed to be on the battlefield.
It's like comparing a spy teamsquad and a cavalry batallion. They haven't the same purpose at all.

Regarding their techniques, hard to tell also which koryu used what techniques, and which koryu has an actual hitsorical legacy, simply because ninjutsu koryu were never centralized and reunited.
It's the same thing with numerous unknown koryus in japan, where grandmasters are just totally unknown from the grand public, but also from people in the martial arts world (some grand masters are yakuza clans chiefs for example). And yes, their training was physical as much as mental and spiritual. Like in every traditionnal martial arts.
And as the clans where never reunited and local beliefs were still strong in that time, it's close to impossible to say "Ninjas believed that", simply because historical sources are actually few and scattered. Logical from what was supposed to be secret orders.

For the samurai, it would be naive to believe that they were only trained in kenjutsu. They mastered numerous martial techniques and weapons : jujutsu, kyujutsu, yari jutsu, naginata jutsu (even if it became the Onna Bugeisha signature weapon).... Basically, a ninja hadn't that much chances face to face against samurai fully equiped with his tosei gusoku. That's why he had to use deception and unorthodox tehcniques. But mostly, he would flee as soon as he has the occasion if his mission is not to actually kill said samurai. But they weren't sworn enemies at all like fantasy would like people to believe. They were just different corps with different purposes.

And said samurais weren't horrible as a united army. First because samurais were only a small part of said armies, they were the officers, like knights in european armies
The main part of japanese traditionnal armies was the ashigaru, the basic infrantryman. They are not the same.
And as I already said, a person could be the two at once. ninja and samurai..


Nerd

Captain-Courage
05-23-2017, 11:03 AM
Nerd

Or maybe just somebody who spent numerous years training in martial arts and studying them.