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Johnnybeck.
05-21-2017, 01:51 AM
Is worse than old revenge...

UbiNoty
05-21-2017, 02:37 AM
Sorry, sorry. The team knows its a big thing right now and we're keeping watch on it. If it really gets out of hand next week we'll likely step in then.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-21-2017, 02:43 AM
If they are running in a team of 4 it means they aren't playing the objectives.


Thats their loss. They can get all the kills they want, but they won't win the match with proper teamwork on your end

UbiNoty
05-21-2017, 02:51 AM
I do wish we had a bit more visibility with higher-level dominion strategy. Unfortunately that just isn't the case right now.
One of my favorite parts after the season 2 tournament stream was that everyone got a teeny look into what Dominion could be like with a bit of proper coordination and strategy.

But as it stands, the strategy and meta for dominion and 4v4 still needs time to develop and catch on before we'll be able to see it really get going. I'm hopeful though!

CoyoteXStarrk
05-21-2017, 02:55 AM
I do wish we had a bit more visibility with higher-level dominion strategy. Unfortunately that just isn't the case right now.
One of my favorite parts after the season 2 tournament stream was that everyone got a teeny look into what Dominion could be like with a bit of proper coordination and strategy.

But as it stands, the strategy and meta for dominion and 4v4 still needs time to develop and catch on before we'll be able to see it really get going. I'm hopeful though!

I agree 100%


Its a good plan.

XxHunterHxX
05-21-2017, 03:18 AM
If they are running in a team of 4 it means they aren't playing the objectives.


Thats their loss. They can get all the kills they want, but they won't win the match with proper teamwork on your end

Im shure that they ghet all the points and then fight them around...and his team wont go for the points wil just keep fighting...happend to me....i had 700+ points my team...around 55/100....all they did was run around trying to ghet kills...they die coz of 3 v 1 and then they dont know why they died...

Johnnybeck.
05-21-2017, 03:21 AM
I do wish we had a bit more visibility with higher-level dominion strategy. Unfortunately that just isn't the case right now.
One of my favorite parts after the season 2 tournament stream was that everyone got a teeny look into what Dominion could be like with a bit of proper coordination and strategy.

But as it stands, the strategy and meta for dominion and 4v4 still needs time to develop and catch on before we'll be able to see it really get going. I'm hopeful though!

That's really nice to hear. Dominion should be all about strategy.

kweassa1917
05-21-2017, 03:27 AM
In Dominon, "gank squad" is about the stupidest thing to do, since objectives are spread apart with distance between each other, In whatever context, Dom is about using your manpower efficiently as much as possible to get the objectives, prevent the opponents from doing the same, and killing them.. so it's an endless cycle of splitting up and grouping up according to the situation.


In Elim, where there's no other objective but to kill the other bunch, not running in groups and running around solo is about the stupidest thing one can do. So this one's entirely on one's own head.

CandleInTheDark
05-21-2017, 03:54 AM
Three people got so fixated on trying to kill me once that they didn't realise that their score wasn't ticking up while my own team's was growing ever higher from two zones and a boost. If you're on a point, fight defensively and use it to your team's advantage, odds are they kill you but you can make it a game losing pyrrhic victory. 60-90 seconds of a team's only zone being white puts them a long way behind. Even not on a zone, it is time three or all four of them are doing nothing else.

Johnnybeck.
05-21-2017, 06:28 AM
It is stupid but it works very well, specially in smaller maps and against solo players that can't communicate properly. It is not fun and don't require any sort of skill.

Perhaps making so that standing in the area gives your team +3 points, slowing down the running speed or buffing whoever is outnumbered in the already dominated area, making it easier to defend against the gank squad. Idk, I hope that the devs can come up with something to make dominion more strategic than just run in a group of 3 or 4.

Teh1one
05-21-2017, 06:30 AM
stupid deathball gameplay
smash buttons ..... no skill required

YuBiShiGouShi
05-21-2017, 07:25 AM
I do wish we had a bit more visibility with higher-level dominion strategy. Unfortunately that just isn't the case right now.
One of my favorite parts after the season 2 tournament stream was that everyone got a teeny look into what Dominion could be like with a bit of proper coordination and strategy.

But as it stands, the strategy and meta for dominion and 4v4 still needs time to develop and catch on before we'll be able to see it really get going. I'm hopeful though!

Too bad the game will be almost nearly dead....as it's headed that way now. Specially given that fact that Dominion is the highest played mode.

kweassa1917
05-21-2017, 08:10 AM
Crock of bullshi* if I've ever heard one. :rolleyes: You people really want to know the truth behind the "gank squad" myth?


The "gank squad" is a result of your team being weak and inept in the first place. It's not the "gank squad" that makes you and your team members get ganked and killed, it's your team members being unable to win small scale fights and 1v1s that snowball into what resembles a "gank squad" -- not because the opponents make and roll in 4 people hordes from the start.

Here's a classic demonstration of how "gank squads" are formed in any Dominion game.



You have players 1, 2, 3 4 fighting against 5, 6, 7, 8 in Domination. Your side zone is A, mid is B, and their side zone is C.

● Game begins, 1, 2, 3 runs to A, 5, 6 runs to C, and 4, 7, 8 goes to B.

● Your team captures Am but while 2 and 3 runs for mid, 1 just stays behind at A.

● 4 went to mid from the start, and met enemy 7, 8 and being 1v2d, he's almost dead.

● 2 and 3, instead of helpinmg 4, takes the side route and makes way to C.

● enemy 5, 6 joins up with 7, 8 in the mid, kills off 4, and goes A.

● enemy 5, 6, 7, 8 steamrolls 1 was enjoying doing nothing at A, and takes A.

● so the enemy controls A and B, your team controls C, 1 and 4 is dead, all four enemies are alive.

● 2 and 3 comes to mid to retake it, all four enemies move to mid and now slaughter 2 and 3. After killing 2 and 3, 8 goes back to C and retakes it.

● 2 and 3 are now dead, 1 and 4 respawn, and decide to go to A to retake it, except 5, 6 and 7 went back to A to stop the retake.

● 2 dies, 3 is almost dead, 8 comes from C and joing 5, 6, 7 at A, 1 and 4 respawn and horde themselves into A...

...and for the next 5~8 minutes, it's a hectic 4v4 at your A, which is contested, giving you no points, while the enemy racks up scores from B and C.. so the score parts something like 200 -- 900.


Did the enemy run a "gank squad"? No, all they do is simply move around and efficiently help each other out when needed, and then separate to fulfill individual objectives when not needed, and then come back to assisst their buddies elsewhere. In comparison, your team, from the beginning, starts out with wrong tactics, passive member doing nothing on the side and wasting manpower, people always too far away from each other to help, gets isolated and dies without receiving any help, so all the spawn times are different, someone in your team is always dead and you're never at full force, new spawns are cut off from moving deep into enemy zones to distract and separate them, and always meets bad odds and dies.


The "gank squad" isn't some sort of tactic invented to screw you. The odds are you screw yourselves with terrible and thoughtless game management, so someone's always killed without receiving help, and your team always remains outnumbered because you never assisst each other.


You create a "ganking heaven" for the enemy team by yourselves is what is happening -- not because the enemy team runs some sort of mythical super-duper tactic that trumps all else.


Everyday I get to be in both situations according to how luck I am with my teammates, and when playing with people that share similar vibes, it's a real pleasure and I'm almost never outnumbered. Always, when there's 2~3 enemies heading towards my position, I can be sure that in just a few moments 2 of my teammates are going to arrive at the scene, because they don't slack along in some insignificant corner of the map, and they always move around to see which place they should go help out next. Is this because we came up with a plan to just move around in hordes? No, of course not. People barely talk to each other before the game begins. You don't friggin need to set up battle plans to know what you have to do in Dom if you have enough experience.


In contrast, when I'm grouped together with people with just terrible Domination management, one guy goes off there, the other guy's in one of the side nodes mastu*bating about how he's "helping" the team by "boosting" the zones when everyone else is separated and outnumbered in different corners of the map. The assassin spends 70% of the time doing nothing but running around, the vanguard spends all his time stuck at mid whether or not people are dying at the sides, and the skil-less people are busy gettng killed within 10 seconds of fighting in 1v1 situations, while the skillful people are having a ball in an awesome 1v2 fight in the middle of nowhere, off the point, in a place it don't mean jackshi* whether you win that 1v2 or not.


So TL;DR -- the enemies don't make "ganksquads" to outnumber you and kill you by ganking. Your team plays so stupidly that they're busy killed in idiotic ways, and the end result is only one or two of your team is left standing, while all four of your enemies are alive. So when those four people search out for enemy players, they all converge at the same point -- where you are, and then it turns into a gank.


That's the truth of it.


"Gank squad" is nothing but a variation of a self-justification stemming from the "it ain't my fault that I'm being killed and PWNd" mentality, so common with newbies with too much ego and too little brains to admit that they're playing terribly. It's a myth created to protect their egos and shift the blame to a supposedly evil, heinous tactic that ruins your fun, but really, the truth is very simple -- the only one that's ruining your fun is you, and as long as you keep making these ridiculous excuses, you'd never be able to realize just where you exactly are -- which is most likely the bottom of the barrel, not the "middle" as you fantasize.

Butonfly
05-21-2017, 08:29 AM
Crock of bullshi* if I've ever heard one. :rolleyes: You people really want to know the truth behind the "gank squad" myth?


The "gank squad" is a result of your team being weak and inept in the first place. It's not the "gank squad" that makes you and your team members get ganked and killed, it's your team members being unable to win small scale fights and 1v1s that snowball into what resembles a "gank squad" -- not because the opponents make and roll in 4 people hordes from the start.

Here's a classic demonstration of how "gank squads" are formed in any Dominion game.




...and for the next 5~8 minutes, it's a hectic 4v4 at your A, which is contested, giving you no points, while the enemy racks up scores from B and C.. so the score parts something like 200 -- 900.


Did the enemy run a "gank squad"? No, all they do is simply move around and efficiently help each other out when needed, and then separate to fulfill individual objectives when not needed, and then come back to assisst their buddies elsewhere. In comparison, your team, from the beginning, starts out with wrong tactics, passive member doing nothing on the side and wasting manpower, people always too far away from each other to help, gets isolated and dies without receiving any help, so all the spawn times are different, someone in your team is always dead and you're never at full force, new spawns are cut off from moving deep into enemy zones to distract and separate them, and always meets bad odds and dies.


The "gank squad" isn't some sort of tactic invented to screw you. The odds are you screw yourselves with terrible and thoughtless game management, so someone's always killed without receiving help, and your team always remains outnumbered because you never assisst each other.


You create a "ganking heaven" for the enemy team by yourselves is what is happening -- not because the enemy team runs some sort of mythical super-duper tactic that trumps all else.


Everyday I get to be in both situations according to how luck I am with my teammates, and when playing with people that share similar vibes, it's a real pleasure and I'm almost never outnumbered. Always, when there's 2~3 enemies heading towards my position, I can be sure that in just a few moments 2 of my teammates are going to arrive at the scene, because they don't slack along in some insignificant corner of the map, and they always move around to see which place they should go help out next. Is this because we came up with a plan to just move around in hordes? No, of course not. People barely talk to each other before the game begins. You don't friggin need to set up battle plans to know what you have to do in Dom if you have enough experience.


In contrast, when I'm grouped together with people with just terrible Domination management, one guy goes off there, the other guy's in one of the side nodes mastu*bating about how he's "helping" the team by "boosting" the zones when everyone else is separated and outnumbered in different corners of the map. The assassin spends 70% of the time doing nothing but running around, the vanguard spends all his time stuck at mid whether or not people are dying at the sides, and the skil-less people are busy gettng killed within 10 seconds of fighting in 1v1 situations, while the skillful people are having a ball in an awesome 1v2 fight in the middle of nowhere, off the point, in a place it don't mean jackshi* whether you win that 1v2 or not.


So TL;DR -- the enemies don't make "ganksquads" to outnumber you and kill you by ganking. Your team plays so stupidly that they're busy killed in idiotic ways, and the end result is only one or two of your team is left standing, while all four of your enemies are alive. So when those four people search out for enemy players, they all converge at the same point -- where you are, and then it turns into a gank.


That's the truth of it.


"Gank squad" is nothing but a variation of a self-justification stemming from the "it ain't my fault that I'm being killed and PWNd" mentality, so common with newbies with too much ego and too little brains to admit that they're playing terribly. It's a myth created to protect their egos and shift the blame to a supposedly evil, heinous tactic that ruins your fun, but really, the truth is very simple -- the only one that's ruining your fun is you, and as long as you keep making these ridiculous excuses, you'd never be able to realize just where you exactly are -- which is most likely the bottom of the barrel, not the "middle" as you fantasize.

I've got some math for you

Right now in Dominion, with atleast one centurion on the opposing team, any 2+v1 will result in death. Which can take as little as 4 seconds ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RohV4qubBgM ) from the point of having your guard broken (not that a GB is even necessary) with absolutely no ability to change that course of events. This will result in (likely) a full respawn time, plus the time to run back to a point which will be contested. Meanwhile the steamroll from the initial string of defeats (all fights outnumbered once one man dies) means players will not be spawning at the same time, and the enemy team will be free to respond to any decisive movements from the vanquished team. The "ganking" will continue until the match is won. The winning team doesnt need to spread over three points either btw. They only need to maintain home and mid, rotating freely to destroy whoever shows up to contest. Given the rate of death in any fight where more than one opponent is present, this becomes an easy task.

Anybody, winner or looser, knows the state of Dominion post 1.7 in S2 DUE TO Centurion AND the change in how gear effects the rate of survival now. You die much faster, and the matches snowball almost instantly.

Teh1one
05-21-2017, 08:33 AM
Crock of bullshi* if I've ever heard one. :rolleyes: You people really want to know the truth behind the "gank squad" myth?


The "gank squad" is a result of your team being weak and inept in the first place. It's not the "gank squad" that makes you and your team members get ganked and killed, it's your team members being unable to win small scale fights and 1v1s that snowball into what resembles a "gank squad" -- not because the opponents make and roll in 4 people hordes from the start.

Here's a classic demonstration of how "gank squads" are formed in any Dominion game.




...and for the next 5~8 minutes, it's a hectic 4v4 at your A, which is contested, giving you no points, while the enemy racks up scores from B and C.. so the score parts something like 200 -- 900.


Did the enemy run a "gank squad"? No, all they do is simply move around and efficiently help each other out when needed, and then separate to fulfill individual objectives when not needed, and then come back to assisst their buddies elsewhere. In comparison, your team, from the beginning, starts out with wrong tactics, passive member doing nothing on the side and wasting manpower, people always too far away from each other to help, gets isolated and dies without receiving any help, so all the spawn times are different, someone in your team is always dead and you're never at full force, new spawns are cut off from moving deep into enemy zones to distract and separate them, and always meets bad odds and dies.


The "gank squad" isn't some sort of tactic invented to screw you. The odds are you screw yourselves with terrible and thoughtless game management, so someone's always killed without receiving help, and your team always remains outnumbered because you never assisst each other.


You create a "ganking heaven" for the enemy team by yourselves is what is happening -- not because the enemy team runs some sort of mythical super-duper tactic that trumps all else.


Everyday I get to be in both situations according to how luck I am with my teammates, and when playing with people that share similar vibes, it's a real pleasure and I'm almost never outnumbered. Always, when there's 2~3 enemies heading towards my position, I can be sure that in just a few moments 2 of my teammates are going to arrive at the scene, because they don't slack along in some insignificant corner of the map, and they always move around to see which place they should go help out next. Is this because we came up with a plan to just move around in hordes? No, of course not. People barely talk to each other before the game begins. You don't friggin need to set up battle plans to know what you have to do in Dom if you have enough experience.


In contrast, when I'm grouped together with people with just terrible Domination management, one guy goes off there, the other guy's in one of the side nodes mastu*bating about how he's "helping" the team by "boosting" the zones when everyone else is separated and outnumbered in different corners of the map. The assassin spends 70% of the time doing nothing but running around, the vanguard spends all his time stuck at mid whether or not people are dying at the sides, and the skil-less people are busy gettng killed within 10 seconds of fighting in 1v1 situations, while the skillful people are having a ball in an awesome 1v2 fight in the middle of nowhere, off the point, in a place it don't mean jackshi* whether you win that 1v2 or not.


So TL;DR -- the enemies don't make "ganksquads" to outnumber you and kill you by ganking. Your team plays so stupidly that they're busy killed in idiotic ways, and the end result is only one or two of your team is left standing, while all four of your enemies are alive. So when those four people search out for enemy players, they all converge at the same point -- where you are, and then it turns into a gank.


That's the truth of it.


"Gank squad" is nothing but a variation of a self-justification stemming from the "it ain't my fault that I'm being killed and PWNd" mentality, so common with newbies with too much ego and too little brains to admit that they're playing terribly. It's a myth created to protect their egos and shift the blame to a supposedly evil, heinous tactic that ruins your fun, but really, the truth is very simple -- the only one that's ruining your fun is you, and as long as you keep making these ridiculous excuses, you'd never be able to realize just where you exactly are -- which is most likely the bottom of the barrel, not the "middle" as you fantasize.

is he dumb? https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.o2EhEroFs3fQhulhn3eW9QEsD-

SendRickPics
05-21-2017, 08:50 AM
is he dumb? https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.o2EhEroFs3fQhulhn3eW9QEsD-

It's Kweassa, the dude's an admitted "Anti-Revenge" troll. Dude just talks smack most of the time, you just need to look at his post history to see that.

He talks about ganking as if it's some sort of high level strategic gameplay, when it's the most brain-dead form of gameplay.

He hated the old revenge mode, and while powerful, it wouldn't mean much with the centurion now in play.

Johnnybeck.
05-21-2017, 08:54 AM
It can be like this sometimes, but not in the majority of the matches. People running from B to C to A to C to B in a group of 3 or 4 ppl. If you are in a group you can beat this strategy by simply going where the gank squad is not, but when you ate playing alone against a gank squad is very boring, it's not so big of a problem in bigger maps, but in small maps they take 2 areas before you spawn back. When playing solo I try to run from them and then come back and retake the area, but my team tryes to fight them, they die and is basically I holding one area for 60 seconds until they come back and I have to run again.

I'm not a newbie whinning, I love this game and am at rank 38, 30 on nobushi. Before revenge nerf I could easily take 3 ppl, and revenge indeed needed rework. You didn't require skill while in revenge because it was too strong, but you need even less skill to kill someone in a 4x1. So now that ppl lost they press Y to win, they are just running together because for some reason learn how to play is too hard...

The game is getting better with every update, but the gank squad is getting out of hand, everytime I play alone a face this in 2 of 3 matches. I can win sometimes, but is not fun to play against, not fun at all. I'm not sure that revenge needs buff, maybe increase defense a little, but a way to discourage 4 man gank squad would be nice.