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View Full Version : Shinobi Leg Kick = what were the devs thinking ?



Jarl.Felix
05-20-2017, 11:27 PM
So, let me state it clear : My main now is conqueror. I know, he's pretty useless hero, nobody plays him, he's, low tiered and shield-spam ONLY option.

Now here comes the new toy : Shinobi , a tool for the newbies, I can understand that. Ubisoft desperately needs more players so they got this crap for kids who think this game is some Mortal Kombat game. They even gave him "supowers" like teleporting with invisible animation, a total nonsense crap that kills game immersion.

I can also understand that not everyone is skilled in this game, many are just casual players who like to press 2 buttons and rekt all the players.

Some of us might like to play harder and much more punishable classes.

Scenario : Dominion match, 2 conqerors vs 1 shinobi.

The Conquerors play aggresive and try to catch the Shinobi. The Shinobi uses leg kick . It's super effective !Better then a ninja, not a single hit on him.

The Conquerors try to let the Shinobi attack. Shinobi use leg kick. The Conq dodges it. No problemo ! Shinobi uses it again in mileseconds later.

Free guardbrake the Shinobi and try a heavy attack ? Bad luck ! He blocks it before you hit him !

Run and shieldbash him ? Bad luck ! Shinobi get's up before you can hit him !

Shinobi runs, uses leg kick, runs uses leg kick, both Conq are dead.

....I look at other posts and laugh about the punish you can inflict to a shinobi and how others think it's so damn easy to dodge a leg kick...

Now comes a valid question : what were the devs thinking aside the facts stated before when they made this op move ?

How do you counter such leg kick followed by 4-5 unstoppable hits ? Shall we all switch to more spamfiesta characters because Ubisoft wants so ?

CoyoteXStarrk
05-20-2017, 11:40 PM
....I look at other posts and laugh about the punish you can inflict to a shinobi and how others think it's so damn easy to dodge a leg kick...


Thats because it IS easy to dodge.

Jarl.Felix
05-20-2017, 11:45 PM
Thats because it IS easy to dodge.

Yeah, I saw your last 50 posts, with link to the same thread. Woohoo, because all Shinobi engage and use leg kick like in that GIF =)) OOOK

CandleInTheDark
05-20-2017, 11:45 PM
Warden shoulder bash, warlord headbutt, shugoki headbutt, conqueror shield bash, valkyrie leg sweep, lawbringer shove. The kick itself might need looking at but the mechanic is not new.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-20-2017, 11:49 PM
Warden shoulder bash, warlord headbutt, shugoki headbutt, conqueror shield bash, valkyrie leg sweep, lawbringer shove. The kick itself might need looking at but the mechanic is not new.

As usual Candle gets it. Despite being a PK main. :)

UbiNoty
05-20-2017, 11:54 PM
We've definitely seen a ton of talk about it and we'll be taking a second look at it. But no changes planned for it at the moment until we've had a bit of time to gather more information.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-20-2017, 11:56 PM
We've definitely seen a ton of talk about it and we'll be taking a second look at it. But no changes planned for it at the moment until we've had a bit of time to gather more information.

Thank you.


I don't want the Devs to make a snap decision due to the players jumping to ridiculous conclusions about the new characters.


If they react too strongly they will break them like they did the Conqueror.

CandleInTheDark
05-20-2017, 11:59 PM
As usual Candle gets it. Despite being a PK main. :)

You learn to keep the mind working and to keep cool for blood pressure sake when you're a pk main with all that hate ;)

Dr-KaBoom
05-21-2017, 12:04 AM
I think the main problem with the kick is he can immediately back flip to safety after it if it misses/opponent dodges. I think some characters might be able to counter this but I'm pretty sure many can't and that makes it broken.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-21-2017, 12:06 AM
I think the main problem with the kick is he can immediately back flip to safety after it if it misses/opponent dodges. I think some characters might be able to counter this but I'm pretty sure many can't and that makes it broken.

Now the BACKFLIP I cannot defend.


That is an EXTREMELY safe way to avoid a fight. Nobody has anything as safe as that.

CandleInTheDark
05-21-2017, 12:12 AM
Now the BACKFLIP I cannot defend.


That is an EXTREMELY safe way to avoid a fight. Nobody has anything as safe as that.

Nobushi has retreat options and you have to attack and have that attack go through,hit or miss, to get the backflip, I think in normal circumstances it is ok as you are hardly going to attack and let an attack go through just to backflip, if you are in that much trouble you'd get hit ifyou did that. Maybe it is a bit much when linked with a missed kick, I do believe that if someone misses then they should lose initiative. As it is now, I can miss then throw off a heavy so essentially if it doesn't stun them at the least it is an op range closer.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-21-2017, 12:14 AM
Nobushi has retreat options and you have to attack and have that attack go through,hit or miss, to get the backflip, I think in normal circumstances it is ok as you are hardly going to attack and let an attack go through just to backflip, if you are in that much trouble you'd get hit ifyou did that. Maybe it is a bit much when linked with a missed kick, I do believe that if someone misses then they should lose initiative. As it is now, I can miss then throw off a heavy so essentially if it doesn't stun them at the least it is an op range closer.

Yeah but the distance covered is ridiculous.


A nobushi can get away yeah, but there is still a chance of getting her. If a Shinobi decides to backflip and hit the road there is frick all you can do about it.

CandleInTheDark
05-21-2017, 12:21 AM
Yeah but the distance covered is ridiculous.


A nobushi can get away yeah, but there is still a chance of getting her. If a Shinobi decides to backflip and hit the road there is frick all you can do about it.

I think we need to agree to disagree here >.> I do think the backflip is balanced by the fact it only comes off an attack (if you could do it off something easy and risk free like pressing back twice I would be right with you by the by) and in fact needed with that low health pool. Your biggest tool as a shinobi to mitigate that healthpool is picking your battles and hoping the other fighter doesn't pressure you into a corner or out of stamina.

CHawkins27
05-21-2017, 12:25 AM
The shinobi kick is as easy to dodge as the Centurion jab...except unlike the Centurion the shinobi doesnt have an attack that literally holds you in place setting you up to be knocked down on the ground. If you can dodge the jab and don't think thats OP but you think the shinobi's kick is too hard, then you just have a vendetta against the character itself. 2 leg kicks and a backflip = exhaustion so it's very punishable.

CandleInTheDark
05-21-2017, 12:26 AM
2 leg kicks and a backflip = exhaustion so it's very punishable.

Exaggerating like that doesn't help the cause, you can get at least three with heavy attacks in before out of stamina.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-21-2017, 12:31 AM
I think we need to agree to disagree here >.>


No big deal. Agree to Disagree. :)

CandleInTheDark
05-21-2017, 12:35 AM
No big deal. Agree to Disagree. :)

As shocking as it is that people can disagree civilly on the internet;)

CoyoteXStarrk
05-21-2017, 12:35 AM
As shocking as it is that people can disagree civilly on the internet;)

Will wonders never cease.

Jarl.Felix
05-21-2017, 12:37 AM
The shinobi kick is as easy to dodge as the Centurion jab...except unlike the Centurion the shinobi doesnt have an attack that literally holds you in place setting you up to be knocked down on the ground. If you can dodge the jab and don't think thats OP but you think the shinobi's kick is too hard, then you just have a vendetta against the character itself. 2 leg kicks and a backflip = exhaustion so it's very punishable.


Dude, just check this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH_b1S9O7Lo

Watch how many times he uses the double dodge kick before exaustion. The hell ! Check the bot stamina after all that spamming !

Tobias96716
05-21-2017, 12:49 AM
Why change it? If you time it right your heavy you can kill him during the kick...you can sidestep it....before the kick you can grab him out of it....so why change it? It is balanced...just because you don't want to put in the time to practice against it does not mean it should get nerfed...

CHawkins27
05-21-2017, 12:51 AM
Exaggerating like that doesn't help the cause, you can get at least three with heavy attacks in before out of stamina.

2 leg kicks with a heavy attack each and then a light followed by a backflip is the brink of exhaustion. You can't do anything else after that before letting your stamina regen or youre dead.

Tobias96716
05-21-2017, 01:27 AM
Exactly...his main is a conquer though...the kick is anti turtle....if you turtle against Shinobi of cent you will ALWAYS have a bad time....like I said...trade a attack with the kick or just sidestep it...maybe even try grabbing before he kicks...it's really telegraphed...but if you stand still and let it happen you deserve to lose.

CandleInTheDark
05-21-2017, 01:33 AM
Exactly...his main is a conquer though...the kick is anti turtle....if you turtle against Shinobi of cent you will ALWAYS have a bad time....like I said...trade a attack with the kick or just sidestep it...maybe even try grabbing before he kicks...it's really telegraphed...but if you stand still and let it happen you deserve to lose.

Whose main? Because if I assume you're responding to the one above you and he quoted me thereby meaning my main...well I would have to laugh myself silly >.>

Netcode_err_404
05-21-2017, 02:02 AM
Thank you.


I don't want the Devs to make a snap decision due to the players jumping to ridiculous conclusions about the new characters.


If they react too strongly they will break them like they did the Conqueror.

Except conqs are still one of the strongest classes in the game. And they will remain as long as they will fit the current meta. You should probably l2p one. Or play one to start with.

They can react and come out victourius in pretty much all 50/50 in the game thanks to the fact they can dodge and istantly shield bash. A turtle conqueror makes the difference. Even in 1v1. The fact they are not the strongest 1v1 class doesn't mean they are useless, The classes that are better in 1v1 than a conq are the holy trinity, which is not a surprise considering they are over the top in pretty much all game modes.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-21-2017, 02:37 AM
Except conqs are still one of the strongest classes in the game. And they will remain as long as they will fit the current meta. You should probably l2p one. Or play one to start with.

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/youre_serious_futurama.gif


1) Conqueror one of the strongest? You are funny. The Devs have already said they know the Conqueror is in a horrible spot and that he is being worked on as we speak so he can be improved.


2) I do play one. He is my 2nd most played class in the game.

XxHunterHxX
05-21-2017, 02:56 AM
Why change it? If you time it right your heavy you can kill him during the kick...you can sidestep it....before the kick you can grab him out of it....so why change it? It is balanced...just because you don't want to put in the time to practice against it does not mean it should get nerfed...

No point...in even trying man....i keep saying if you ghet in a shinobi's face he will need to run away from you and lose stamina and if he starts to go crazy combos he will waste even more stamina if you GB hem ONCE he is DEAD ! Take a good Berserker player and put hem vs a Shinobi he will 2 hit the shinobi...even if you spamm some light atacks and ghet a random heavy in he is dead....people didnt even ghet to play this caracter and they cry.....when they play hem and see how much they die for 1 silly mistake they will realize they just suck and need to practice...

BGEEZY1982medic
05-21-2017, 03:04 AM
U need to take away his legalise that gives him a free heavy

BeefMan_
05-21-2017, 03:43 AM
http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/youre_serious_futurama.gif


1) Conqueror one of the strongest? You are funny. The Devs have already said they know the Conqueror is in a horrible spot and that he is being worked on as we speak so he can be improved.


2) I do play one. He is my 2nd most played class in the game.


Conqueror has an absolutely insane amount of exploits at the moment. I've seen omni-directional flickers, shield bash feinting, and GB feinting.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-21-2017, 03:49 AM
Conqueror has an absolutely insane amount of exploits at the moment. I've seen omni-directional flickers, shield bash feinting, and GB feinting.

Yeah.


Exploits. Exploits that will be fixed.


But after that his actual KIT and skillset right now rock bottom steaming garbage. Which is why the Devs have already stated that they are buffing and updating him soon.

BeefMan_
05-21-2017, 03:50 AM
Yeah.


Exploits. Exploits that will be fixed.


But after that his actual KIT and skillset right now rock bottom steaming garbage. Which is why the Devs have already stated that they are buffing and updating him soon.

His kit isn't the discussion, it's his power ranking. He is top tier due to his exploits.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-21-2017, 03:53 AM
His kit isn't the discussion, it's his power ranking. He is top tier due to his exploits.


Then we will just have to agree to disagree. Exploits or bugs do not have any bearing on the powerscale of a hero in my view. Its how they stand on their own with their kit and their feats


And on that level he is easily the worst hero in the game at the moment due to various shortcomings that he has.

Netcode_err_404
05-21-2017, 04:10 AM
http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/youre_serious_futurama.gif


1) Conqueror one of the strongest? You are funny. The Devs have already said they know the Conqueror is in a horrible spot and that he is being worked on as we speak so he can be improved.


2) I do play one. He is my 2nd most played class in the game.

Then you really need to l2p him.

Also i don't care what devs say, they clearly do not know nothing about their own game, the devtest stream speaks alone what little they know about the game mechanics. They stated that pre buff rader was the anti PK. LOL

COnq is currently the fourth better class in the game. Its ultra easy to learn, is effective, and does moderate amount of damage. Does have the best defense tools in the game, and cannot be punished with 50/50 ( or at least by LB and wardens.

May not be THE best 1v1 class, but rest assured is the same very very strong. Not as powerful as his majesti warlord of course. But no one is.

Thats without counting all the "techs" he has on his arsenal at the moment.

His effective comes from the fact he is bad designed, and even worse balanced. A rework to make him more interesting to play would e awesome, but in need of a huge buff ? LOL

CoyoteXStarrk
05-21-2017, 04:12 AM
Then you really need to l2p him.

Also i don't care what devs say, they clearly do not know nothing about their own game, the devtest stream speaks alone what little they know about the game mechanics. They stated that pre buff rader was the anti PK. LOL

COnq is currently the fourth better class in the game. Its ultra easy to learn, is effective, and does moderate amount of damage. Does have the best defense tools in the game, and cannot be punished with 50/50 ( or at least by LB and wardens.

May not be THE best 1v1 class, but rest assured is the same very very strong. Not as powerful as his majesti warlord of course. But no one is.

Thats without counting all the "techs" he has on his arsenal at the moment.

His effective comes from the fact he is bad designed, and even worse balanced.

So glad the Devs disagree with you lol

Also if you made a thread explaining how the Conqueror is one of the best classes you get laughed into the ground.



I look forward to seeing your complaint thread when he gets reworked and buffed :)

Antonioj26
05-21-2017, 06:15 AM
Then you really need to l2p him.

Also i don't care what devs say, they clearly do not know nothing about their own game, the devtest stream speaks alone what little they know about the game mechanics. They stated that pre buff rader was the anti PK. LOL

COnq is currently the fourth better class in the game. Its ultra easy to learn, is effective, and does moderate amount of damage. Does have the best defense tools in the game, and cannot be punished with 50/50 ( or at least by LB and wardens.

May not be THE best 1v1 class, but rest assured is the same very very strong. Not as powerful as his majesti warlord of course. But no one is.

Thats without counting all the "techs" he has on his arsenal at the moment.

His effective comes from the fact he is bad designed, and even worse balanced. A rework to make him more interesting to play would e awesome, but in need of a huge buff ? LOL

I rarely agree with lord but he's right. His bash still has pretty good recovery its just not as good as before. Yeah the superior block of it is gone but it's still incredibly useful. I still do really well with him. It's understandable why people think he sucks but they are just comparing him to where he was and there doesn't seem to be nearly that many running around.

Being out of stam against a conq is almost guaranteed death too because he will keep you exhausted until you are dead. Once you start dodging then he can bait the dodge for a gb and not only do you get a semi charged heavy to the face you also are back down to low stam again. I don't think he needs a buff or a nerf but like lord said a rework would be great. His kit is way too simple.

Bracus_Maximus
05-21-2017, 06:35 AM
Haha

Conq needs skill these days? So basically OP who plays conq tells that shinobi is a 2 button hero. Hahha never seen a better joke on this forum. A shieldbash heavy versus the longest list of moves hero and he tells the opposite?

I have choosen the shinobi because of the wide variety of moves only. I am disappointed now. Maybe i should thry the conq :-D and his fantastic, diverse gameplay

RoosterIlluzion
05-21-2017, 07:57 AM
So, let me state it clear : My main now is conqueror. I know, he's pretty useless hero, nobody plays him, he's, low tiered and shield-spam ONLY option.

Now here comes the new toy : Shinobi , a tool for the newbies, I can understand that. Ubisoft desperately needs more players so they got this crap for kids who think this game is some Mortal Kombat game. They even gave him "supowers" like teleporting with invisible animation, a total nonsense crap that kills game immersion.

I can also understand that not everyone is skilled in this game, many are just casual players who like to press 2 buttons and rekt all the players.

Some of us might like to play harder and much more punishable classes.

Scenario : Dominion match, 2 conqerors vs 1 shinobi.

The Conquerors play aggresive and try to catch the Shinobi. The Shinobi uses leg kick . It's super effective !Better then a ninja, not a single hit on him.

The Conquerors try to let the Shinobi attack. Shinobi use leg kick. The Conq dodges it. No problemo ! Shinobi uses it again in mileseconds later.

Free guardbrake the Shinobi and try a heavy attack ? Bad luck ! He blocks it before you hit him !

Run and shieldbash him ? Bad luck ! Shinobi get's up before you can hit him !

Shinobi runs, uses leg kick, runs uses leg kick, both Conq are dead.

....I look at other posts and laugh about the punish you can inflict to a shinobi and how others think it's so damn easy to dodge a leg kick...

Now comes a valid question : what were the devs thinking aside the facts stated before when they made this op move ?

How do you counter such leg kick followed by 4-5 unstoppable hits ? Shall we all switch to more spamfiesta characters because Ubisoft wants so ?

I have video of a Berserker (I think) killing me as I come out of teleport into the kick. It's funny. I've had opponents GB me while doing the teleport. Shinobi's not a god.
Yes, you have to be fast to do those things, but it's possible. You only have to dodge to avoid the kick. Even if players don't do the kick, and just teleport, you're not gonna be in trouble if you dodge, and keep your eyes & ears open.

CandleInTheDark
05-21-2017, 09:46 AM
Also i don't care what devs say, they clearly do not know nothing about their own game, the devtest stream speaks alone what little they know about the game mechanics. They stated that pre buff rader was the anti PK. LOL

This really is a tired argument and it is particular bugbear of mine. When they made that claim, the game had been live to everyone for less than a month, correct? So, let's say there had been a thousand pk vs raider battles and seven hundred of them had been won by the raider. With what we know now we can probably safely say a good number of the pk players were bad or a good number of raider players were good, but just taking the actual characters out of it, if character a, in the first month of the game, has a clear win advantage against character b, then is it not a reasonable conclusion that character a is a bad matchup for character b based solely on the data of what was (and still is) a very young game?

CoyoteXStarrk
05-21-2017, 09:57 AM
This really is a tired argument and it is particular bugbear of mine. When they made that claim, the game had been live to everyone for less than a month, correct? So, let's say there had been a thousand pk vs raider battles and seven hundred of them had been won by the raider. With what we know now we can probably safely say a good number of the pk players were bad or a good number of raider players were good, but just taking the actual characters out of it, if character a, in the first month of the game, has a clear win advantage against character b, then is it not a reasonable conclusion that character a is a bad matchup for character b based solely on the data of what was (and still is) a very young game?

I feel like at this point Candle is the beacon of reason that I wish I could be, but I am too tainted by salt and stupidity to ever reach that level of solitude. :(

CandleInTheDark
05-21-2017, 11:19 AM
I feel like at this point Candle is the beacon of reason that I wish I could be, but I am too tainted by salt and stupidity to ever reach that level of solitude. :(

Eh get me when I am tired I can be downright unreasonable lol. I've had my times the day after writing something I have been all oh hell did I really write that so I try not to have them now I am apparently adult.

Knight_Raime
05-21-2017, 11:21 AM
Eh get me when I am tired I can be downright unreasonable lol. I've had my times the day after all oh hell did I really write that so I try not to have them now I am apparently adult.

I second with coyote. it's admirable that you stick to staying calm and all when discussing. Even I struggle with that sometimes. (it's why I blocked lord in the first place.)
Keep the work xbox brother. :>

CoyoteXStarrk
05-21-2017, 11:41 AM
Candle....



https://img.memesuper.com/358a29abd9d270630325ec665031bd9f_da-real-mvp-8675756-comment-da-real-mvp-meme_500-333.jpeg

Netcode_err_404
05-21-2017, 12:50 PM
I rarely agree with lord but he's right. His bash still has pretty good recovery its just not as good as before. Yeah the superior block of it is gone but it's still incredibly useful. I still do really well with him. It's understandable why people think he sucks but they are just comparing him to where he was and there doesn't seem to be nearly that many running around.

Being out of stam against a conq is almost guaranteed death too because he will keep you exhausted until you are dead. Once you start dodging then he can bait the dodge for a gb and not only do you get a semi charged heavy to the face you also are back down to low stam again. I don't think he needs a buff or a nerf but like lord said a rework would be great. His kit is way too simple.

Yes, exactly. Its absolutely trash designed, but ultra effective, all you need to do is play passively and wait, and punish with shield bash. Totally trash, mechanic, but is ultra effective. Probably coyote doesn't play conq enough to know its full potential. Or he plays on console so he cannot dodge for **** LOL

PS: I don't know what you mean, but they still have superior block, every heavy against them is a free GB for conq.

Jarl.Felix
05-21-2017, 01:18 PM
Yes, exactly. Its absolutely trash designed, but ultra effective, all you need to do is play passively and wait, and punish with shield bash. Totally trash, mechanic, but is ultra effective. Probably coyote doesn't play conq enough to know its full potential. Or he plays on console so he cannot dodge for **** LOL

PS: I don't know what you mean, but they still have superior block, every heavy against them is a free GB for conq.

No offence, but i dont think you comprehend conq game mechanics.

Yes, devs made him this way ! It's the only way you can actually DO SOMETHING ! If you dont just wanna be a dummy on the field you need to abuse what he has the best.

If you say that conq can easily win if he just sits by and wait for the others to do a move, then you clearly are a noob. I always have to be agressive if i really want to win. Dude, even if you parry the enemy YOU CAN"T PUNISH HIM ! You parry, animation makes him go away you cant reach to hit him. You parry, then free GB, if you want to HEAVY hit him, you can;t because he will block it, IS THAT SLOW ! You can at least switch guards and hit him with a heavy, you MIGHT have some chances then. You may say go for light attacks, ok, now tell me, how many lights do you need to kill even a Shinobi ?

Now come, be honest with me... how many conquerors do you meet in Dominion/Brawl etc ? Do you really think people wouldn't choose him more often if he was THAT GOOD ? Get real kid.

Antonioj26
05-21-2017, 01:23 PM
Yes, exactly. Its absolutely trash designed, but ultra effective, all you need to do is play passively and wait, and punish with shield bash. Totally trash, mechanic, but is ultra effective. Probably coyote doesn't play conq enough to know its full potential. Or he plays on console so he cannot dodge for **** LOL

PS: I don't know what you mean, but they still have superior block, every heavy against them is a free GB for conq.

Im talking about on the sb

Hormly
05-21-2017, 01:31 PM
they were thinking 'injustice 2 is going to kill our game anyways, so f- it"

Netcode_err_404
05-21-2017, 02:05 PM
No offence, but i dont think you comprehend conq game mechanics.

Yes, devs made him this way ! It's the only way you can actually DO SOMETHING ! If you dont just wanna be a dummy on the field you need to abuse what he has the best.

If you say that conq can easily win if he just sits by and wait for the others to do a move, then you clearly are a noob. I always have to be agressive if i really want to win. Dude, even if you parry the enemy YOU CAN"T PUNISH HIM ! You parry, animation makes him go away you cant reach to hit him. You parry, then free GB, if you want to HEAVY hit him, you can;t because he will block it, IS THAT SLOW ! You can at least switch guards and hit him with a heavy, you MIGHT have some chances then. You may say go for light attacks, ok, now tell me, how many lights do you need to kill even a Shinobi ?

Now come, be honest with me... how many conquerors do you meet in Dominion/Brawl etc ? Do you really think people wouldn't choose him more often if he was THAT GOOD ? Get real kid.

L2p issue, thats all you have.

Half of what you said is straight false, so. Conversation closed.

Antonioj26
05-21-2017, 02:10 PM
No offence, but i dont think you comprehend conq game mechanics.

Yes, devs made him this way ! It's the only way you can actually DO SOMETHING ! If you dont just wanna be a dummy on the field you need to abuse what he has the best.

If you say that conq can easily win if he just sits by and wait for the others to do a move, then you clearly are a noob. I always have to be agressive if i really want to win. Dude, even if you parry the enemy YOU CAN"T PUNISH HIM ! You parry, animation makes him go away you cant reach to hit him. You parry, then free GB, if you want to HEAVY hit him, you can;t because he will block it, IS THAT SLOW ! You can at least switch guards and hit him with a heavy, you MIGHT have some chances then. You may say go for light attacks, ok, now tell me, how many lights do you need to kill even a Shinobi ?

Now come, be honest with me... how many conquerors do you meet in Dominion/Brawl etc ? Do you really think people wouldn't choose him more often if he was THAT GOOD ? Get real kid.

He's probably just barely picked because he's boring slow and has low damage. Has nothing to do with how good or bad he is.

Jarl.Felix
05-21-2017, 02:26 PM
He's probably just barely picked because he's boring slow and has low damage. Has nothing to do with how good or bad he is.


"Boring slow and has low dmg" . Wow. this must be the premise of a good character !

Tobias96716
05-21-2017, 02:31 PM
The Shinobi kick is perfectly fine...it's meant to bring the turtles out of their shell...the free heavy after the kick connects is the problem....that needs to be fixed by making it where it can be parried or deflected...other than that the kick is doing its job....being anti turtle...

Antonioj26
05-21-2017, 02:38 PM
"Boring slow and has low dmg" . Wow. this must be the premise of a good character !

Yep in a game that highly rewards defense it is.

Netcode_err_404
05-21-2017, 05:05 PM
He's probably just barely picked because he's boring slow and has low damage. Has nothing to do with how good or bad he is.

The damage is not that slow, if you manage to stuck shield bash against a a wall ist half hp you take fromn your opponents, for free.

Antonioj26
05-21-2017, 05:11 PM
The damage is not that slow, if you manage to stuck shield bash against a a wall ist half hp you take fromn your opponents, for free.

Yeah but it's slowly chipping someone down with weak light confirms oppose to large burst damage and I can see that turning people off. If I remember right he has the weakest lights and heavy when uncharged. He requires more patience. Shield bash against a wall is situational and any half experienced player won't get hit with the sb from the heavy follow. Slow as hell and obvious.

Netcode_err_404
05-21-2017, 05:26 PM
Yeah but it's slowly chipping someone down with weak light confirms oppose to large burst damage and I can see that turning people off. If I remember right he has the weakest lights and heavy when uncharged. He requires more patience. Shield bash against a wall is situational and any half experienced player won't get hit with the sb from the heavy follow. Slow as hell and obvious.

Well its true, but that doesn't make him weak. If you face a turtle conq you will lose with 80% of the classes. I experienced this on my skin. Coudn't touch him with my LB, I was forced to use the broken warden. But as I said warden IS better than conq in every aspect.

He doesn't need a buff, he needs a serious rework, because as class is lazy designed.

Antonioj26
05-21-2017, 05:34 PM
Well its true, but that doesn't make him weak. If you face a turtle conq you will lose with 80% of the classes. I experienced this on my skin. Coudn't touch him with my LB, I was forced to use the broken warden. But as I said warden IS better than conq in every aspect.

He doesn't need a buff, he needs a serious rework, because as class is lazy designed.

When I say weak I mean low damage hitting. Yeah he can do consistent damage that can burn someone down rather quickly if played right but it's still soft hits comparatively. I agree he doesn't need a buff, a redesign would be more appropriate.

Jarl.Felix
05-21-2017, 06:03 PM
If you face a turtle conq you will lose with 80% of the classes. I experienced this on my skin..

...Really ? Ok, now I have the perfect picture about you. No more questions needed :))

Antonioj26
05-21-2017, 06:23 PM
...Really ? Ok, now I have the perfect picture about you. No more questions needed :))

Well he's right though, the large majority of the cast don't have a tool to crack open a good conq. All the assassins, all the hybrids, kensei, raider, and shugo don't have any quick reliable unblockables. So really his only tough matches are warden, warlord, and a mirror. He has great defensive tools so of course conq thrives in a game that rewards high defensive play. I didn't throw in the new classes since I don't quite know the match up but it sounds like they will be one of his weaknesses. So not including them he does well against 75% the cast, not far from the 80% he threw out there.

Lyskir
05-21-2017, 06:29 PM
Well its true, but that doesn't make him weak. If you face a turtle conq you will lose with 80% of the classes. I experienced this on my skin. Coudn't touch him with my LB, I was forced to use the broken warden. But as I said warden IS better than conq in every aspect.

He doesn't need a buff, he needs a serious rework, because as class is lazy designed.

this

Maxime_Qc-
05-21-2017, 07:17 PM
Now the BACKFLIP I cannot defend.


That is an EXTREMELY safe way to avoid a fight. Nobody has anything as safe as that.


nobody is as weak as the shinobi with is 3 bars of life too !! ( just saying) if theres no place for mistake it HAS to have that kind of very fast retreat !.. (it also take stamina so... you do it after a combo you out of stamina that'S still can not be that usefull )

and for the kick ... super easy to dodge .. after you dodge it you have the choice to guradbreak or just hit ! ... i also allready been guardbreak mid air while kicking on a warlord shield !... not interruptible but you can still heavy hit him while he's kicking ...(killed a lot of shinobi doing that .. like yeah come on kick me boom your kick cost you a bars of life !...)

AND .... if as a shinobi you succeed to kick .. without being dodge or taking any damage ... what's the best thing you can do ? ... only the 2 next light will be guaranteed ... after those 2 light you look what the shinobi is doing .. if he backflip be redy to counter the distance guardbreak and inflict him a BIG punishment !! ... if he keep spamming light you can step back or try to guess wich direction to parry it ! (if you guess right BOOM BIG PUNISHMENT) if he double dodge to the side JUST GUARDBREAK HIM .. it will interrupt him so free guardbreak and here comes the BIG punishment again !!! if he goes for the guardbreak .. well you where allready waiting for that !! .. counter it that's it !! now he's in range if he want to get away he gotta hit again to back flip or kick you ... you know its is 2 next option !!... or he will just roll over away like a nobushi and try again !!!

Netcode_err_404
05-21-2017, 07:29 PM
...Really ? Ok, now I have the perfect picture about you. No more questions needed :))

Yes really, if you play vs garbage conq, is not a class problem.

Netcode_err_404
05-21-2017, 07:31 PM
Well he's right though, the large majority of the cast don't have a tool to crack open a good conq. All the assassins, all the hybrids, kensei, raider, and shugo don't have any quick reliable unblockables. So really his only tough matches are warden, warlord, and a mirror. He has great defensive tools so of course conq thrives in a game that rewards high defensive play. I didn't throw in the new classes since I don't quite know the match up but it sounds like they will be one of his weaknesses. So not including them he does well against 75% the cast, not far from the 80% he threw out there.

Exactly

With kensei you literally have 0 chances. Unless the conq is the prince of the bads