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bonogun
07-21-2004, 01:47 AM
I'm seriously about over this game(online anyway). I've never played a game with such a steep learning curve in my life! I've had it nearly a month now, and the hours upon hours that I've invested into it now are ridiculous. I can say honestly I might have 10 legitimate kills online. And thats with about 100 hrs of play...ONLINE. In the few servers I've frequented, maybe six, there are about 10 or 12 players that are unbelievablly good.
So, basically I'm sick and tired of being fodder for these players. It doesn't help either, when you see via chat that some of them are actualy pilots with combat experience. Which only goes to show that whatever it takes to learn the cobination of angle off and range etc. is more than I can see learning with the methods I've tried. Asside from inlisting in the armed services, I'm completely at a loss for how to improve my gunnery skills. I would say that I'm a decent pilot, only because I've given some of these "Aces" more than a work out to take me out. But what's the point, if I get one in my sights, and I can't take them out?
Of all the comunities I've been a part of, this one is the most stein I've ever seen when it comes to effective assistance to beginers.
Do the aces here want nothing to do with rookies, keeping all of their tactics to themselves? Do they prefer the idea of having servers full of cherries to pick from, 'neatly sawing off wings'?
I've seen other game communities with web pages FULL of tutorials and advice on how to improve on critical elements of a game. But not here. At least no one's ever replied with any such info.
I realize it's only a game, but it's no fun when all your doing online, is taking off and getting a$$ raped over and over for hours. Especailly when it leads you to screaming at your screen and getting late night calls from your neighbors!
Thanks for listening...

bonogun
07-21-2004, 01:47 AM
I'm seriously about over this game(online anyway). I've never played a game with such a steep learning curve in my life! I've had it nearly a month now, and the hours upon hours that I've invested into it now are ridiculous. I can say honestly I might have 10 legitimate kills online. And thats with about 100 hrs of play...ONLINE. In the few servers I've frequented, maybe six, there are about 10 or 12 players that are unbelievablly good.
So, basically I'm sick and tired of being fodder for these players. It doesn't help either, when you see via chat that some of them are actualy pilots with combat experience. Which only goes to show that whatever it takes to learn the cobination of angle off and range etc. is more than I can see learning with the methods I've tried. Asside from inlisting in the armed services, I'm completely at a loss for how to improve my gunnery skills. I would say that I'm a decent pilot, only because I've given some of these "Aces" more than a work out to take me out. But what's the point, if I get one in my sights, and I can't take them out?
Of all the comunities I've been a part of, this one is the most stein I've ever seen when it comes to effective assistance to beginers.
Do the aces here want nothing to do with rookies, keeping all of their tactics to themselves? Do they prefer the idea of having servers full of cherries to pick from, 'neatly sawing off wings'?
I've seen other game communities with web pages FULL of tutorials and advice on how to improve on critical elements of a game. But not here. At least no one's ever replied with any such info.
I realize it's only a game, but it's no fun when all your doing online, is taking off and getting a$$ raped over and over for hours. Especailly when it leads you to screaming at your screen and getting late night calls from your neighbors!
Thanks for listening...

KSS_Jester_UK
07-21-2004, 01:54 AM
Look up the KSS guys in UBI, fly with us. We arn't aces, but it might be enough to get you started.

arcadeace
07-21-2004, 02:05 AM
I would have the same experience as you but I don't fly online, and I've played FB since it first hit the shelves. So I play offline, pace myself and enjoy it. I'm not saying accept my level of satisfaction but don't go head first into the fire. I know others have recommended that but I don't believe its good advice, especially someone as fresh as you. There are plenty of people here who will help you. Take your time, practice and enjoy some missions offline; expect a longer learning curve. You need time to sit back and become more realistic and patient with your expectations

WTE_Ibis
07-21-2004, 02:06 AM
Join A squad, thats the way to learn and have fun at the same time.You will get all the help you need.If you go against the battled hardened enemy without the basics you are just fodder.Take the time to join with friendlies and have a great time,you wont regret it.It's just like real life.
Cheers. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Ibissix-schmile.JPG
http://premium.uploadit.org/Ibissix/MAKE-MY-DAY.jpg
Join us or oppose us, either way "MAKE MY DAY"

Zayets
07-21-2004, 02:08 AM
I think your problem is not being shot down by aces.What I also think is that you should decide when starting a mission what would you do: achieve an objective or shoot down as many as you can. Now,obviously , first one cannot exist in DF servers.Period.DF servers is a UT or Quake arena.Frag'em out!Therefore here your only objective is to shoot as many as you can.Problem is that always there will be one better than you or in case that you are an ace,you could have a really bad day.This adds up to frustration.
On the other hand,there are so called scripted servers : Greater Green , War Clouds , Virtualpilots to name a few. There are objectives : protect base,destroy armor etc.And these are things that matter.Shooting a plane down is a secondary objective if I can say that.Goal is to win the war.Does not matter if you shot down 5 crates if in the end your base is overruned by enemy armored units,right?
My advice for you is :
-fly scripted servers or for that matter coop missions
-join a squad.There are tactics involved and there's no such Quake feeling when you fly.

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg

Fehler
07-21-2004, 02:08 AM
First off, welcome to the forum!

Secondly, it is hard to explain tactics if we dont know a few things. For example, what is your favorite plane type? Do you tend to stick with one aircraft, or do you want to fly all of them equally well?

There are great sites on fighter tactics, but for a course in speciality aircraft you will have to do one of two things; 1. Find someone that flys that plane type all the time and is good in it, 2. trial and error (With a big emphasis on error)

Dont get discouraged. I have flown this sim since it first came out. I stuck with the 190's through thick and thin. I think I know the 190 as well as anyone, and the people that have had the pleasure of being one of my victims will tell you that I am a fair pilot in one. On the other hand, when I jump into a plane I am not familiar with, I stink! So, the term "Ace" is really relative, if you know what I mean.

Here is a good link to some basic fighter tactics, and will get you started thinking about energy management.

http://www.wings-of-valor.net/files/documents/energy.pdf

Hope this helps.

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

WTE_Ibis
07-21-2004, 02:12 AM
If you are in the Australation area,available evenings eastern standard time.join us.

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Ibissix-schmile.JPG
http://premium.uploadit.org/Ibissix/MAKE-MY-DAY.jpg
Join us or oppose us, either way "MAKE MY DAY"

bonogun
07-21-2004, 02:14 AM
Maybe arcadeace is right..about more patience. Maybe this game is just that good of a sim. I just watched some guys video online titled "flying for the first time" I'm sure some of you have seen it. I was dying. Funny to find that after posting this. "players so perfect, they must be cheating". Too true. The reason I stopped trying to improve my gunning skills offline is because they AI pilots don't behave as ...well, real as real people. No player is going to just start flying straight on, in the middle of being chased. And these are with veteran settings for the AI. I'll try ace next.
I guess it will come, and I enjoy the game for the game(offline) But the real thrill is with real people, playing online. I used to laugh, and tell players "good kill good kill". Now I just squeeze my hotas untill my hands turn blue!

bonogun
07-21-2004, 02:23 AM
Goodness!! people respond fast! Thanks for making me feel less on the findge here folks, I appreciate it. Invites and all. Someone asked if I prefer a certain plane, and this makes sense. Wouldn't be a seem I guess if they all flew alike. Yeah, I was flying the bf109 mostly. Got rather good at the "zoom and boom" tactic. Well...less the "boom" part, again with my accuracy laying fire. I've also tried the La7, but I hear people giving grief on it, calling it a superplane. I guess because it seems to turn like a modern day fighter, among other things. All in all I'd say I've stuck with just the bf109 mostly though.

THANKS FOR THE LINK FEHLER

tttiger
07-21-2004, 02:34 AM
A month is nothing. You should have spent it (and maybe two months) off line before even trying to go on line.

And read everything you can find on tactics. Here's the best collection of on line material I know of (with a bow to Tailspin http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif):

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Tailspin/index.htm



When you're killing everything in sight in Quick Mission Builder, you will be ready.

And even then, expect to get killed a lot.

I this your first flight sim? If so, give yourself a year(I'm serious).

I agree a squad will be helpful but don't expect them to carry you. Go into a squad with something to offer them. And be kind of picky about which squad you join. Each has its own personality. If you find one that looks like a good prospect, ask if you can wing with them on voice coms. Then let them invite you to join.

And stay out of those DF Arenas. Pure gang bang arcade BS. Living or dying in DF arenas is more a test of luck than skill.

Coops or Virtual Wars is the way to go.

Stick with it. We all had the same frustrations starting out.

Good luck!

Oh, and the LA-7 is the best plane in the game. Forget the morons (we got tons of mental Pygmies in here) who call one plane or another a Noob plane or an Uber plane just because it gets kills and gets you home. After all, that's the whole point, isn't it?(Read my sig, Yeager was -- is -- no Noob http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

[This message was edited by tttiger on Wed July 21 2004 at 01:45 AM.]

Monson74
07-21-2004, 02:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bonogun:
Goodness!! people respond fast! Thanks for making me feel less on the findge here folks, I appreciate it. Invites and all. Someone asked if I prefer a certain plane, and this makes sense. Wouldn't be a seem I guess if they all flew alike. Yeah, I was flying the bf109 mostly. Got rather good at the "zoom and boom" tactic. Well...less the "boom" part, again with my accuracy laying fire. I've also tried the La7, but I hear people giving grief on it, calling it a superplane. I guess because it seems to turn like a modern day fighter, among other things. All in all I'd say I've stuck with just the bf109 mostly though.

THANKS FOR THE LINK FEHLER<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Welcome to the community!

Bf109 you say. What version are you mostly interested in? Roughly you can divide the 109s into two groups: 1940 to 1942 (early) & 1943 to 1944 (late). In my experience the early 109s are good all-round fighters that can be used for both B&Z & T&B tactics while the later versions are strictly Z&B.

Gunnery. Ok - what you need to do is to practice gunnery in an invironment that doesn't stress you. Make yourself a gallon of coffee, unplug your telephone, put your wife & kids to sleep (if any), take a weeks holiday & use the QMB (Quick Mission Builder) to set up formations of targets to practice with. Select "empty" as the loadout so they won't shoot back at you. Start with the bombers & proceed with fighters when you feel ready for a more vivid target. Begin practice flying with the cockpit off so you'll get a better understanding of the 3D surroundings & then try with the cockpit on. Sometimes you'll need to shoot at a target you cannot see because it's below & blocked by your engine & this requires a good "feeling". Pay attention to where your misses end up & correct them next time. Learn from your mistakes & do not let them upset you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif You may need to adjust your stick input settings so they fit your own style better. Hope this helps a little & you can allways ask more. There are no stupid questions - only stupid answers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

S!

Monson


"The Zerst├┬Ârers will form an offensive circle." - G├┬Âring

Zayets
07-21-2004, 03:17 AM
Early Bf's ruleeeeeez!!!

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg

BennyMoore
07-21-2004, 03:31 AM
Bonogun, I was cannon fodder for nine months. It took me nine months to get to the stage where I no longer prepared to die whenever I saw an enemy aircraft.

609IAP_Recon
07-21-2004, 05:24 AM
I recommend you find a squadron with a good training program.

Experience is a huge asset in this game.

Practicing gunnery offline is a good thing.

Try making all your offline dogfights 4v1. It will teach you patience.

S!
609IAP_Recon
http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


Full Real Virtual Online War: Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com)

leadbaloon
07-21-2004, 06:00 AM
A good tip (that I'm suprised you haven't recieved yet), is to set your gun convergence (the point at which the streams of bullets meet) closer than the default 500m (I have my machine guns at 150 and cannons at 125) and then wait until the plane you want to hit fills your windscreen, then you can't miss.

Try what Monson suggested in the QMB, and when you've finished save your track. Use ctrl and F2 to view the enemy 'planes and you can see where your bullets are going in relation to the 'plane you're trying to shoot and get an idea of whther you're firing too early or too late, or outside of your convergence distance.

If it was easy it'd only hold your attention for an hour or so, be patient, practise and you'll reap the rewards.

F19_Ob
07-21-2004, 06:02 AM
I think its great that so many have taken time to think about tactics and so on.

U know...some have practiced on one or a few planes for years, and have found the absolute limits of their performance.

Personally I'm a slow learner and have always liked to develop or enhance tactical ideas.
When U have the experience U can "read" your opponent better and it is a lot easier to think ahead in the battle and not just react on what the enemy do.

I guess this inbalance in skills is historically accurat too?

Just keep it up mate. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

steiner562
07-21-2004, 06:25 AM
Bonogun you might benefit from watching some online tracks of other people also,as you seem to have a preference for the 109 I recommend you watch some of Dreyers tracks http://www.dreyermachine.com/il2/ on how to use this plane effectively
Regards
Stein

http://www.bf109.com/gallery/grayeagle/gallgray01sm.jpg

Holycannoli
07-21-2004, 06:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> posted 21-07-04 05:00
A good tip (that I'm suprised you haven't recieved yet), is to set your gun convergence (the point at which the streams of bullets meet) closer than the default 500m (I have my machine guns at 150 and cannons at 125) and then wait until the plane you want to hit fills your windscreen, then you can't miss.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Holy cow I think that may be a big part of my problem! Didn't even realize you could change the convergence. I only fire when close (the rule of not wasting any ammo), and when I hit them I'm lucky if it does anything or even hits what I'm trying to hit, like an engine.

XyZspineZyX
07-21-2004, 06:42 AM
I'll make it short and sweet: shaddap with the whining already!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

You've just explained why this sim has the potential to be on your HD for YEARS, rather than losing your interest in just days or weeks, like so many other easy games with not much to keep them interesting.

I can tell you from experience that it takes YEARS, yes YEARS, to get half-decent at any flight sim that has any semblance of realism.

Flight is not simple. There is a lot of physics and math (my weak suit, to be sure), just for starters. Then there's air combat theory. Then there's history to be considered. And none of that even involves sitting in front of your PC 'flying'.

If you're up for an involving experience that will absorb your attention, leave you sweaty and out of breath, and cursing under your breath at somebody halfway across the world, you've found your huckleberry.

If you just want to relive that awful "Pearl Harbor" movie and be Ben Affleck, try something like Crimson Skies or Fighter Ace. There they don't care so much about accuracy or realism, just big explosions and flying in circles.

That being said, you'll find this board to be FULL of people who can point you to the help you need.

I'll try and start you off. Go NOW, directly, to Amazon.com and get yourself a copy of Robert "Mouse" Shaw's book, Air Combat Tactics & Maneuvering. It's a very dry read to be sure, and the modern concepts about missiles obviously won't apply here. But the basics of air combat definitely do.

Dive in, buddy boy.

carguy_
07-21-2004, 06:49 AM
It is true.Those who really are aces and can shot down most of HL pilots WHATEVER their plane never reveal their secrets.I know some very good pilots who are hunted by allies in every mission but at 9 for 10 missions they down at least 2 enemy planes and land safely.I asked them what was their magic way but they talk BS about basic stuff.I can tell you that they are using very advanced tactics and fly their planes to the limits.

The only way is to develop your own special move or fight the best of the best.

I said 'feck this' and worked my own ways.

The best always say," suuuure,ok,I`ll show how it`s done.Like this and that..."

That BS!

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

Slammin_
07-21-2004, 06:52 AM
I dunno why there is so much negative bias towards DF servers. DF servers are some of the hardest places to survive, but also some of the best and easiest places to get kills and practice. Getting kills builds confidence. Also, you may develop a sure fire tactic or skill that almost always works against this plane, or that plane, and you usually don't have to fly for 45 minutes to do it each time. Having limited available time to play, I usually go for the DF servers because I like kills!

As for your gunnery skills, one thing you may want to check is the joystick curve configuration settings within the game. You can smooth out things quite a bit with the right settings there.

As far as tactics, use the 109's flaps and manual prop pitch judiciously. With proper prop pitch and flaps, you can make a 109 waltz, and when your opponent tries dance with you but can't, you will usually have a bead on him. Vary your speed when engaged unless you are bugging out, but bugging out can be difficult sometimes. Try to not go lone wolf. Just as an experiment, try sticking to a wingmans six while he is engaged offensive. You can learn a lot this way, as well as the importance of team tactics. Keep your SA high - don't fly straight and level, but instead bank and turn so that you can check your surroundings. Vow to not get shot down! - the kills will come eventually.

S! and welcome aboard!

WWSensei
07-21-2004, 07:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm seriously about over this game(online anyway). I've never played a game with such a steep learning curve in my life! I've had it nearly a month now, and the hours upon hours that I've invested into it now are ridiculous. I can say honestly I might have 10 legitimate kills online. And thats with about 100 hrs of play...ONLINE. In the few servers I've frequented, maybe six, there are about 10 or 12 players that are unbelievablly good. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've often said the more realistic flight sims become the more virtual pilots will realize they don't have what it takes and move away from the game or have arcadish features added back in.

Most players pretend "they want to know what it was like" when they really mean "I want to know what it's like to be a real ace hero". What they end up getting is that if they had been a pilot back then there was a huge chance they would have died virtually unknown and most likely by an enemy they never saw...

EmbarkChief
07-21-2004, 07:46 AM
My advice? Listen to what Jester said in the first reply. Join up with some people, really helps if you have comms BTW, and get some one on one advice and direction. We would be more than happy to give anyone some a helping hand. I'm not the best flier, but I can hold my own. The same can be said for the rest of the pilots in our squad.

HART_dreyer
07-21-2004, 07:54 AM
It's really not that hard. I've learned everything I know in about the last year. But you have to commit to learning how to get better; you won't get better by doing the same mistakes over and over again. Realize the truth and you'll advance your skill faster.

Regards,
dreyer
the dreyer vs. Hartmann game! (http://www.dreyermachine.com/il2/)
"Above us, there is nothing above but the stars... above us."

F16_Filur
07-21-2004, 07:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy_:
It is true.Those who really are aces and can shot down most of HL pilots WHATEVER their plane never reveal their secrets.I know some very good pilots who are hunted by allies in every mission but at 9 for 10 missions they down at least 2 enemy planes and land safely.I asked them what was their magic way but they talk BS about basic stuff.I can tell you that they are using very advanced tactics and fly their planes to the limits.

The only way is to develop your own special move or fight the best of the best.

I said 'feck this' and worked my own ways.

The best always say," suuuure,ok,I`ll show how it`s done.Like this and that..."

That BS!

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe it is mostly basics, and that they dont miss when opportunity is given? When it comes to flying its the usual "know your airplane well, fly aggressive to its limits and proactive, judge the energy correct, moves like scissors, yoyoÔ┬┤s etc.". You cant keep too many advices in your head anyway. What has to be instinctive is the shooting. Doesnt help much if you fly like an ace and then miss the window of opportunity. IMO the flying part is more academic and can be studied/read to greater extent than the shooting which just has to be a natural talent or practised, practised, practised.

ItÔ┬┤s also a mental game. If you dont feel inspired you wont do well. I think anything has to feel like play if you want to be good (if it doesnt, maybe fly another day). This also involves the shooting part more than the flying since it stands for those precious moments where you have to perform top notch. ThereÔ┬┤s alot of flying errors that can be forgiven, but almost no room at all for gunnery mistakes. Every miss will give him a second opportunity to come back at you. You shouldnt fight, just end the fight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sure there are som special moves, mostly different ways to point the nose in the desired direction faster than normal. IÔ┬┤ve seen som FW190 pilots do things I never could duplicate myself.

SeaFireLIV
07-21-2004, 07:55 AM
Indecision can be bad... impatience can be deadly.

I flew OFFline for about maybe 2 months. The AI may not be as good as Humans but it TEACHES you all the controls and mostly what does what. Anyone with a bit of a brain should know to PRACTISE offline first (in Campaign/QMB), before daring to take on Humans.

It`s really trying getting a new pilot on the net and he says, "How do I start my plane?" Yes, this did really happen. There have been similar silly situations where all it would have taken would be 2/3 flying sessions offline.

Anyway, after that the REAL WORK begins. You cannot be told EVERYTHING IMMEDIATELY that will make you as good as the good guys. You`ll simply suffer overload. As in reality, the real skill comes from experience and constant practise.

Better still, as others have said, join a Squad, have respect, patience - LEARN from them.

Once you do, you`ll never look back.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Yakgirlgo.jpg
Time to Escape!

Want to see more? go here: http://seafire.dreyermachine.com/
(Fantasy sections for mature viewers only).

tfu_iain1
07-21-2004, 08:02 AM
DF is easy if your patient... instead of taking off an heading for the fight, take off and head away from it. climb. climb some more. turn around, head for the fight. keep climbing. see an enemy? is he about to turn? has he seen you? no? good. anyone else around? not for a k or so? swoop down, waste him with the biggest gun you can get, then zoom right back up. dont hang around, dont fight anyone else, attack your target and then get out. if you got him, great, go home. he still flying? leave him. keep high. move around, dont linger, look out for another vulnerable plane. then go home and live! if you think this is cowardly, well, this is pretty much what the experienced WW2 aces did. It was either Hartmann or Galland that said 'if i did not destroy my enemy on the first pass i would go home'. I can see where he was coming from. Its better to be alive than brave.

kalo456
07-21-2004, 09:09 AM
Hi Bonugun,

I agree with alot of the others that say it takes time to get good at a sim such as FB. It has so much to offer, but at the same time so much to learn. That being said, I agree with most of what people have said to you here.

A few things to add:
Practice deflection shooting offline. Practice diving snapshots with deflection. When you engage a.i., don;t turnfight with them. Let them be a tool for you to practice the types of gunnery you will use most in online flying; SNAPSHOTS. Online like you know, you will rarely ever be able to stay glued onto someone's 6 for very long, and even if you do that's a dangerous place to be for you. Learn to wound an enemy, then stalk him like a shark that has hit a seal and is letting the seal struggle and bleed out b4 going in for the kill. Dive down, get a snapshot, recover altitude in a zoom, and re-asses your situation while keeping an eye on where your wounded prey is going; Are you still alone with your wounded prey? Did you hit him hard enough to probably ensure the kill without risking another pass? What is the prey doing? If he's running for home, you might have an opportunity for another sneak attack. Etc, etc.

There is a huge mental game going on here. You know a good pilot when you are up against one, not by what plane he flies, but by his aggression and tactics. The mental game is more important than the actual gunnery and piloting skills. Those skills will develope over time without doubt. If you don;t read books and start thinking in terms of improving your mental game, it may never improve. Try to stay alive as someone else stated. Make that's your priority when you takeoff on a sortee. If you survive your confidence will build, and you will learn more. You learn alot more on a sortee that you lived and got maybe no kills, than on a sortee where you rushed in and made mistakes and died immediately.

Timing is also soooo important, knowing when to enter a fight and when it is getting too hot that you need to disengage. You will get a feel for this.

Learning about plane matchups. You have to identify the aircraft you are fighting against. Know it's strengths and weaknesses as compared to your mount. Books help here, because the birds in game all perform somewhere along the lines of history for the most part. This gives you the edge you need to win. If you let any pilot sucker you into a game his aircraft excels in and yours doesn't, you will get waxxed

Grab an object viewer such as Hardballs or IL2compare. These will give you some raw numbers to compare aircraft to each other. This is big man, if you know how fight to your strengths you can winin any aircraft.

Last note, I would recommend you fly online in planes that have good speed at first. If you have a speedy bird you can disengage or extend enough to reach clouds in an emergency. Even the best of us get suckered into bad situations, you have to reckognize quick and be able to have a plan for disengagement. Clouds are your friend, they are life savers, as they were in reality. Don;t be afraid to dip into a cloud to survive.

Survive, build confidence and improve your skills over time! That's the name of the game for someone learning. Don;t judge yourself on how many kills you get, those will come. Judge yourself on your tactics, your decision making, your aircraft reckognition, Those things will build an Ace!!

S!

9./JG54_Kalo

crazyivan1970
07-21-2004, 09:35 AM
Hey welcome aboard mate, drop by VFC COOPS on Friday. We`ll team up http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

F16_Filur
07-21-2004, 02:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kalo456:
There is a huge mental game going on here. You know a good pilot when you are up against one, not by what plane he flies, but by his aggression and tactics. The mental game is more important than the actual gunnery and piloting skills. Those skills will develope over time without doubt. If you don;t read books and start thinking in terms of improving your mental game, it may never improve. Try to stay alive as someone else stated. Make that's your priority when you takeoff on a sortee. If you survive your confidence will build, and you will learn more. You learn alot more on a sortee that you lived and got maybe no kills, than on a sortee where you rushed in and made mistakes and died immediately.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ThereÔ┬┤s some great books on the mental game alone - check out "The Inner Game of Tennis" and "The Inner Game of Golf" by W. Timothy Gallwey. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Could be applicated to anything really...

Bandit.426Cdn
07-21-2004, 02:59 PM
Not sure if this is going to hurt or help your frustration http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I've been playing IL2FB for about a year, about 7 months of it online, 6 of that in a squad.

I'm still cannon-fodder. I've got maybe a dozen kills online, in fighters. I suck so badly, if you listen closely in-game while shooting me down while i'm in a fighter, you can hear the sound of a vacuum instead of a Merlin motor, the suckage is that high. Does this detract from the fun i have in the game? No.

There are so many other facets in this game that can be enjoyed - sneak attacks on the enemy airfield, giving those that shoot you down in the air, a rocket enema (if the server permits it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) on the ground. Even if you suck in the air, if you join up with a squad, it opens up an all new aspect to the game - team play, and communication. If you find yourself in a difficult situation in combat, you can call one of your team mates to wing up and assist, right then and there. No more being isolated, incommunicado, and being shot down in a ball of flame with no hope of assist from others on the same side of the game.

Don't give up on the game yet.

_VR_ScorpionWorm
07-21-2004, 03:36 PM
A$$raped http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Now I was just like you a few months back when I first got online, I could take out ACE AI anyday, but Human pilots are alot different than AI, I was getting my a** handed to me everyday. Eventually I found one of my strengths... BOMBING http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif , thats right, I found out I was a damn good bomber pilot. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif My defensive tactics and gunnery skills were matched to AI performance and hardly did any grace against human opponents. I soon joined a squad and I learned alot while there, I have even had a few things to offer them as well(not much but a bit to show how thankfull I am). Even as I type this I have been improving my gunnery skills, combat tactics and bombing skills. I get online now and when I get a bogie on my six I rarley EVER shake him/her off, but I do get lucky every now and then. I used to get blown away easy, now I make them earn their kill. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif I have found that I fly my best at early war aircraft: Hurricane(my fav), 109 Emil model, He111 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Here is a few links to look over regarding IL2.

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/index.htm

http://magnum-pc.netfirms.com/mudmovers/index.htm

The Mudmovers site has some links that dont work.

http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Scorpion08/Hurri-1.jpg

www.vultures-row.com (http://www.vultures-row.com)

Vengeanze
07-21-2004, 04:07 PM
My tip:
Rookies look 12 o'clock
Aces look 6 o'clock
Britney looks great

While in a chase someone is closing on your six then abort, extend and return with more energy.

/Ven
http://www.la-famiglia.se/skulls/web/pics/skulls_sig-Ven.gif

"Maybe for someone more easy to write something than to make something?"
- Oleg Maddox

Bluedog72
07-21-2004, 04:10 PM
If you truly need input from this discussion board to decide wether or not to keep playing FB, the answer is painfully obvious.

Bearcat99
07-21-2004, 04:49 PM
Dont mind Stig.. he's the forum grouch...LMAO but he is right. Suck it up and dont give up. If you are doing to give up then we dont want you here...

Why do you fly? If you fly just to rack up kills you are going to be disapointed because there are some GREAT not good but GREAT virtual pilots in some of those DF servers. I prefer coops myself.. with my squadmates or whomever.. but coops are almost like fligt sim role playing. If the DFs are your thing then go scripted. Me I dont care to much for the DF servers.. I like team work and it is hard to find it on DF servers.. but thats me. Hang in there bruh... dont give up. Practice. Practice against veteran AI at least when off line or mix it up between average and veteran but dont even bother with rookie AI if your goal is to DF.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | Sturmovik Essentials (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51910959) | MUDMOVERS (http://magnum-pc.netfirms.com/mudmovers/index.htm)

IMMERSION BABY!!

embark247
07-21-2004, 05:12 PM
My 2 cents,

Set small goals for yourself. If you are wanting to come in here after having only flown one month and be able to blow everyone out of the sky...that is a bit unrealistic. Situational Awareness(SA) is just as important IF NOT MORE IMPORTANT than gunnery. You have to be able to keep the bad guys off your six. Sometimes it's hard to do this in a DF arena where everyone is after everyone. If you lose sight of the enemy you are almost as good as dead. I see a lot of new pilots in here asking how to shake someone from their six. The most frequent answer they get is "don't let him get there in the first place" I know that is easier said then done but it is something that all of us work towards. One thing I can suggest is learn to anticipate where the enemy is going. After some time you will begin to be able to know where he is going to be in 5 seconds. Always go towards where he will be instead of where he is now. Its hard to put into words and I am definitely not the greatest teachers but working the angles will definitely improve you experience. Dogfighting is like dancing with planes to me. It's an art and a science. Hard to put into words but try to think of it like a fast paced game of chess.

Something else to chew on. A lot of new pilots make the mistake of thinking they always have to be pointing towards the enemy. They yank and bank and lose energy. Thats when they get picked off. Don't be afraid to extend. Especially when Boom and zooming. If you miss a pass, don't make the mistake I still find myself doing by trying to force the shot. Using a lot of rudder to try to slide into it. Keep the Energy up and just convert it into altitude. Remember Altitude= Energy and Energy=life or the lack of enery=death. Look up some sites on ACM. There are a lot of good ones out there. Most aren't specifically aimed at IL2 but the principal is still the same.

I hope my rambling makes some sense. I sometimes have a difficult time putting my thoughts into words.

S!
Embark

IIJG11_Spreckels
07-21-2004, 06:39 PM
&lt;S!&gt;
I flew this game for a long time before I joined a squadron and started flying online. I am by no means the best of the best, but the fact that I got support from a good squadron helped me to acheive my 48 victories in 67 sorties (missions). There is a lot of support IMO, but lots of it comes when you join a group of guys (and ladies) that like to share their experience.
You didn't say whether you are a part of a squadron, but if you are not at present, I would find a good one. There are lots of them right here on the forum .

Prost

BaldieJr
07-21-2004, 06:44 PM
Another vote of support for Stigs comments.

Suck it up dude. Either you are one of us, or you aren't.

Note: "us" come in infinite flavors, skill-wise. We just love the game.

nickdanger3
07-21-2004, 06:51 PM
First off - just look how many responses you've gotten from people willing to give away tips and share tracks. C'mon man, it's a pretty cool community here. Lots to learn and lots of helpful people to offer advice.

I'm still getting waxed more than a year after starting offline, eight months online.

What else can you say? Patience, patience, patience.

When you get down to it, wouldn't you rather have a game that's still tough after 8 weeks (or 52 or 104) than one that bores you after a few days?

brimigus
07-21-2004, 07:07 PM
your right.but if you dont have a track ir a top of the line video card a saitek x45 flight stick ,CH rudder peddels and 5 hours a night to practice then your gonna get smoked.I'll bet most of the il2 online players cant even sit and play a console game due in fact to its low cerebral content.
Il2 friken hard and thats why so few play it but i know thats why i play it.I get smoked quit a bit but once in awhile I'll hand out a beat down and see my name at the top of the score board.plus what servers are you playing ,if your not flying on historic limited plane sets then it's just a uber plane quake fest and no tactics are needed.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-21-2004, 07:27 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif GAWD IS IT GROUP HUG TIME ALREADY http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

Maple_Tiger
07-21-2004, 08:20 PM
I think i played this sim about two months before i even attempted to fly online. Then, it took two weeks just to get one kill lol.

Think of gunnery as shooten stick/snooker. Best thing to do is practice your gunnery every day. Stick with one or two planes and get used to how they behave. Spend time in the QMB and use unlimmitted amo. Shoot at all angles of defelction. Don't just keep firing, line up the shot and fire when your just about at your convergence. This will take alot of practice lol. Once you start seeing some hits, you'l begin to remember how much deflection you'l need next time.

Try the split S manuever when someone is on you six. When the enemy is closes in to about 500m, roll over on you back and pull back on your stick unltil your straight and level.

When you know you can't turn with the bogie, try the high Yo Yo. Go vertical and come back down on the target plane. This takes practice because you need to know where the target plane will be.

Bed time lol.

Capt. 361stMapleTiger.
http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/Maple_Tiger/FBAA2.gif
Proud member of the FBAA and Nutty Philosohpy Club.

VW-IceFire
07-21-2004, 09:10 PM
Practice with QMB's offline and learn how to shoot moving targets. Then move online where people do even more difficult manuvers to get away. Some days I have good days and some days are bad and I never score a kill.

Better to do things in groups however.

Also, read books...tends to help you learn how to manuver and that sort of thing.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

diomedes33
07-21-2004, 09:22 PM
When I first switched over to closed pit/no externals somone online told me something, I think it was Zen-- or Fehler. (sorry can't remember for some reason those names come to mind)

"You'll get shot down about 200 times then something will click and you'll start to get the hang of it"

About a month or two later, I started getting more and more kills. I am by no means an ace, but at least now I'm not cannon fodder. Don't get discouraged, it will take some time to get the hang of it.


aka 3./JG51_Specter
http://www.public.asu.edu/~guthriec/ubi_sig.jpg

wayno7777
07-22-2004, 12:23 AM
What Slammin_ said, latch on to someone and fly as his wingman and follow his every move. After all, most of the best started as wingmen to gain experience.

For tips try here, http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/

http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/FB%20shots/Aircraft/heinkel_219.jpg
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

Monson74
07-22-2004, 03:06 AM
You should only listen to me 'cause I'm just too BAD... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Looking at your own tracks can be quite educating too.

S!

Monson


"The Zerst├┬Ârers will form an offensive circle." - G├┬Âring