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View Full Version : Defense Meta Sucks for 1v1 and Offense Meta Sucks for 4v4



Dr-KaBoom
05-19-2017, 01:56 AM
After seeing what an offensive hero like Centurion can do to 4v4 I've come to conclusion that an offensive meta for 4v4 would be horrible. Imagine if all heroes had similar ways gang bang open people up. Imagine if chip damage was a real thing and how quickly your life would get depleted as you block attacks from all direction (lets be honest you aint gonna be parrying attacks from multiple angles when facing multiple opponents). I think before the addition of the new classes 4v4 was actually in a decent place and fun. Defense meta could have been dealt with using team work in 4v4.

I think this game needs to figure out if it wants to focus on 1v1 or 4v4 cause they need different focus when it comes to the meta.

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 01:57 AM
The centurion offensive meta, is the wrong one.

Offensive = Moar sword fights not moar unblockables spam with god like tracking + stun effect + knockdowns + stamina drain.

TheLastPandaa
05-19-2017, 02:15 AM
In my opinion, to destroy the defensive meta would be as easy as:

For no shield clases:
Get cheap dmg (20%) of the total on blocks. with no stamina penalty.

For shield clases:
Get no cheap dmg but huge stamina penalty on blocks (like dark souls)


And what about parryes?
Just make the window to pull it much smaller. It should be something hard to do but now is just a joke of how easy it is.

A few other adjust might be necesary, but i just gived a basic idea.

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 02:28 AM
In my opinion, to destroy the defensive meta would be as easy as:

For no shield clases:
Get cheap dmg (20%) of the total on blocks. with no stamina penalty.

For shield clases:
Get no cheap dmg but huge stamina penalty on blocks (like dark souls)


And what about parryes?
Just make the window to pull it much smaller. It should be something hard to do but now is just a joke of how easy it is.

A few other adjust might be necesary, but i just gived a basic idea.
Parry window is not the problem.

Is the fact that you can deal ton of damage defending.

Even with smaller window, people will figure out the new timing, and then we would be all over again

Joseph_2017
05-19-2017, 02:29 AM
After seeing what an offensive hero like Centurion can do to 4v4 I've come to conclusion that an offensive meta for 4v4 would be horrible. Imagine if all heroes had similar ways gang bang open people up. Imagine if chip damage was a real thing and how quickly your life would get depleted as you block attacks from all direction (lets be honest you aint gonna be parrying attacks from multiple angles when facing multiple opponents). I think before the addition of the new classes 4v4 was actually in a decent place and fun. Defense meta could have been dealt with using team work in 4v4.

I think this game needs to figure out if it once to focus on 1v1 or 4v4 cause they need different focus when it comes to the meta.

Devs seem to be more in favor of Duels rather than 4v4. Think I'll give this game a couple more weeks to see what happens, If not I'll hit up gamestop before the value drops and think twice before I buy another Ubi title.

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 02:30 AM
Devs seem to be more in favor of Duels rather than 4v4. Think I'll give this game a couple more weeks to see what happens, If not I'll hit up gamestop before the value drops and think twice before I buy another Ubi title.

don't feed game stop. FRiendly advice.

Sir_rage_quit
05-19-2017, 02:30 AM
i think Ubi lisen to the player base but probably not the right one.

i agree 100% with the last pandaa

offence meta suck hard for 4v4 and since its the only mode i play this game aint enjoyable right now

If this game go for 1v1 direction it will be the end for me

Joseph_2017
05-19-2017, 02:34 AM
don't feed game stop. FRiendly advice.

Ok Goodwill.

TheLastPandaa
05-19-2017, 02:39 AM
Parry window is not the problem.

Is the fact that you can deal ton of damage defending.

Even with smaller window, people will figure out the new timing, and then we would be all over again

I dont really think so. On dark souls 1, b4 the curved swords came (that made the parry easy), parry was something hard and risky with huge reward (could tale 2/3 of your health). Even tho only the most skilled players tryed to pull them on pvp and a loooooooot of times they were not able to. Fishing parrys was not really a valid tactic to be competitive. Most ppl did not even try it because it was safer to use other tactics (the back stab cancer on ds1 was a huge problem but i wont talk about it). It only became a valid option when the fight was bad for you that your last chance to win was to try pull a parry.

So my conclusion:

Make parry hard to pull, make it risky and keep it rewarding.

Dr-KaBoom
05-19-2017, 02:39 AM
In my opinion, to destroy the defensive meta would be as easy as:

For no shield clases:
Get cheap dmg (20%) of the total on blocks. with no stamina penalty.

For shield clases:
Get no cheap dmg but huge stamina penalty on blocks (like dark souls)


And what about parryes?
Just make the window to pull it much smaller. It should be something hard to do but now is just a joke of how easy it is.

A few other adjust might be necesary, but i just gived a basic idea.

Again I think this would be fine for 1v1 but would very painful in 4v4. People constantly target switching you are not going to be parrying attacks in 4v4s. People's hp bars are going to drain super quick and people are going to feel helpless resulting in similar rage to the current centurion shenanigans.

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 03:15 AM
I dont really think so. On dark souls 1, b4 the curved swords came (that made the parry easy), parry was something hard and risky with huge reward (could tale 2/3 of your health). Even tho only the most skilled players tryed to pull them on pvp and a loooooooot of times they were not able to. Fishing parrys was not really a valid tactic to be competitive. Most ppl did not even try it because it was safer to use other tactics (the back stab cancer on ds1 was a huge problem but i wont talk about it). It only became a valid option when the fight was bad for you that your last chance to win was to try pull a parry.

So my conclusion:

Make parry hard to pull, make it risky and keep it rewarding.

Huge DS fan.

In ds1 parry was OP, not really risky, on ds3 is risky because if you miss it you get both damage and stamina drain.


But, ds is a different game. You cannot compare FH with DS

Vingrask
05-19-2017, 03:22 AM
I dont really think so. On dark souls 1, b4 the curved swords came (that made the parry easy), parry was something hard and risky with huge reward (could tale 2/3 of your health). Even tho only the most skilled players tryed to pull them on pvp and a loooooooot of times they were not able to. Fishing parrys was not really a valid tactic to be competitive. Most ppl did not even try it because it was safer to use other tactics (the back stab cancer on ds1 was a huge problem but i wont talk about it). It only became a valid option when the fight was bad for you that your last chance to win was to try pull a parry.

So my conclusion:

Make parry hard to pull, make it risky and keep it rewarding.

We need incentivate parry, not make people turtle block even more. Just reduce the reward, give a cost for block and let the heavies and feints do the job.

You guys who want to remove/difficult parries are just insane.