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View Full Version : The moment is now. Lawbringer buffs/nerfs/improvements.



Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 01:45 AM
Hi,guys, i want to say that I wanted to wait the defenseive meta dismantle before asking these changes to LB, but it seems it will require more than we thought. So here we go here and now.

Lets talk about the "Buffs" what i'd like to see are these minor changes

1)heavies and lights are too slow. Really, except top light which should be 18f rest of attacks are almost useless in the current meta. All attacks mid combo have been buffed in speed and damage which is fine, but the first heavy or light are still too slow to fool anyone, except if an experienced player with many hours on his back.
Curret stats are valors in () are the ones before the 1.4 buffs

Swift Justice (HLH)

Light Attack startup decreased to 500ms (from 700ms).
Top Light Attack damage increased to 15 (from 10).
Side Light Attack damage increased to 15 (from 8).


Book, Chapter and verse (LHL)

Top Heavy Attack startup decreased to 1000ms (from 1100ms).
Side Heavy Attack startups decreased to 900ms (from 1000ms).
Top Heavy attack damage increased to 35 (from 20).
Side Heavy attack damage increased to 30 (from 20).
Top Light Finisher attack damage increased to 15 (from 10).
Side Light Finisher attack damage increased to 15 (from 8).


Judge, Jury and Executioner (LHH)

1st Top Heavy Attack startup decreased to 1000ms (from 1100ms).
1st Side Heavy Attack startups decreased to 900ms (from 1000ms).
Heavy Finisher Unblockable attack damage increased to 45 (from 30).

Seems a little bit weak imho.
2)Blind justice Is useless, I mean yes does 5 nore damage than a warden top heavy which is ridicolous enough, But the best parts comes when you realize you cannot feint it, so if you do on a heavy parry you will get parried 99% of the times and get GB

While I know on lights is guaranteed, is not really a LB unique move, every class has a top heavy guaranteed on a light parry. Which I hope they will remove that thing with the turtle meta patch.

Now what I ask are essentially 2 things

- make unparriable but dodgeable

- make it feintable

Right now is almost useless.
3)Long arm. Yes I know in 4v4 they are annoying, but so are pretty much half of the classes ( not to mention the new ones) so here what i suggest.
Make it feintable
Add hyper armor during the animation

OR just make it a little bit more fast. Right now dodging the long arm, is not only easy, is even ultra rewarding, unlike valks. Which is way more hard to read.

4)Shove Thera are 2 things that are sure on this world, the death, and dodging an incoming shove. So heres my suggestions.

Dodge > shove nneds to grant ( grant for real this time) one single light, ofc the light's damage needs to be as minimal as possible, and that light should open to some mix ups.such as:

dodge > shove > granted light > top unblockable heavy ( which will be nerfed reducing its damage from 45 to 40.

5) MAke way Right now is both useless and broken, so again the change I would make is just make it work like valk sweep, Ofc that serves as defensive tools, so no damage granted to people knocked down.

6)Impaling reposte Same as above, right now is still broken. Just fix it and reduce the throw distance so it will be used on near walls or objects.


Now lets talk about the nerfs I would make

1) Block shove : Yes thats right blocking won't guarantee mix ups, just rework it like it was before, just push far the attackers. No damage involved. No gb. nothing, just push back.


2) Health pool If most of the above suggestion are ok, you may reduce its Hp.

3) Impailing riposte Just to avoid people waitng you on a cliff in a hypothetical meta where GB are not guaranteed on parries impailing riposte shoud not be the only exception, make it not usable to throw people off cliffs, The game will be better I assure you.

Now lets talk about some of the hypothetical changes in case defensive meta will be fixed.



1) Blind justice If guaranteed damage after a parry will be confirmed BJ will become useless. I would like to hear more opinions about it.

2)DIsabling abilities Long arm is moderate effective in gank situation, but is LA alone enough to define the LB as disabler ? IMHO no. Thats why reworking long arm entirely will be the best solution. Long arm should become a stunning cancel off heavies to add more mix ups like raider one off heavy feint. Again, same as above, lets discuss.




Pretty much all i wanted to say. And before someone comes here claiming I want Lb to be god tier or other nonsenses BS i would like to remember knights have both wardens and pk's already in god tier, and they are vanilla heroes, that means I could re roll warden and who cares. I just want improvements to a class I love, because right now is lame how he is played by the majority of the people.



IMPORTANT

I would like to see the same wall of text regarding the following classes

- PK
- Orochi
- Nobushi

Pref y experienced players, because its a shame they are so ****ing limited even if their combo list is infinite

Mudflaaaps
05-19-2017, 02:44 AM
You must be joking.

You want MORE lawbringer buffs!?

He already jumped from 5/6th best in the game to top 2, to the point where people have won tourneys with him.
Lawbringer is an absolute unit and by far the most diverse defensive character in the game, if you can't learn to play him you must be stupid because he is VERY easy to be a God with.

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 02:57 AM
You must be joking.

You want MORE lawbringer buffs!?

He already jumped from 5/6th best in the game to top 2, to the point where people have won tourneys with him.
Lawbringer is an absolute unit and by far the most diverse defensive character in the game, if you can't learn to play him you must be stupid because he is VERY easy to be a God with.

Reading is hard.
Top 2 ?

LOL

Clearly you didn't read a word, so i won't waste any more seconds with you. The way is played t right now, is atrocius. With THESE changes as well as more suggestions by the actual serious players and no trolls like you, it could be better

UbiNoty
05-19-2017, 03:01 AM
Ty for the suggestions - I'll pass it over to the devs to hold onto for when they're looking to make changes to LB.

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 03:04 AM
Ty for the suggestions - I'll pass it over to the devs to hold onto for when they're looking to make changes to LB.

Ty very much. Wanted to specify that the ms valors are the current one. In my opinion every first attack both light and heavy should be faster. Especially heavies.

TheMalakith
05-19-2017, 03:05 AM
Just want to say that your damage values are off. All his lights hit 15 already since his last buff, and his heavy's do 30. His unblockables do 45 damage.

Also, his top light is 500ms and his sides are 600ms. His top heavy is 1000ms and his side heavys are 900ms.

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 03:09 AM
Just want to say that your damage values are off. All his lights hit 15 already since his last buff, and his heavy's do 30. His unblockables do 45 damage.

Yes what I said. The damage is fine.The problem is the speed.

Some attacks ( mainly first attacks) are too slow as you can see.

The unblockable is really hard to land because requires you to land a full Judge, Jury and Executioner combo. Also the unblockable itself is slow AF, all they need to do is to basically dodge in any direction, and gg you dodged i


If the change to Blind justice will pass it should be nerfed in damage.

TheMalakith
05-19-2017, 03:13 AM
Yes what I said. The damage is fine.The problem is the speed.

Some attacks ( mainly first attacks) are too slow as you can see.

The unblockable is really hard to land because requires you to land a full Judge, Jury and Executioner combo. Also the unblockable itself is slow AF, all they need to do is to basically dodge in any direction, and gg you dodged i



If the change to Blind justice will pass it should be nerfed in damage.

The speeds you show are also outdated though. Check my previous post which I edited. The only attack that should be a tad faster imo is the unblockable since you can almost just walk out of it's way.

Sir_rage_quit
05-19-2017, 03:13 AM
meanwhile on the conq/kensei/orochi buff.... *pure silence*

Dizzy4213
05-19-2017, 03:17 AM
He won't be buffed again.

They still haven't fixed all the bugs that have plagued him since release. Missing Make Way animation, Revenge shive not knocking down, Swift Justice chain into shove etc. Ubisoft takes forever to patch the game, and when they do, they barely fix anything. Yet something as small and insignificant as Warden's Shoulder Bash switch gets fixed almost immediately.

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 03:20 AM
The speeds you show are also outdated though. Check my previous post which I edited. The only attack that should be a tad faster imo is the unblockable since you can almost just walk out of it's way.
No, these are the official valors of the last buffs, copy pasted from the official website. So they are accurate 100%
As you can see the valors inside the parenthesis are the vanilla ones and the others outside them are the ones after the buffs


meanwhile on the conq/kensei/orochi buff.... *pure silence*


Conq needs a full rework, is already OP. But he is cheap, and boring a full rework could work with him. But they already said they will talk about him beeing tweaked AFTER the defensive meta fix.

Kensei will be buffed, they already said that. Its not like kensei needs a buff or something, he is already very good, its the current meta that makes him not viable at all.


He won't be buffed again.

They still haven't fixed all the bugs that have plagued him since release. Missing Make Way animation, Revenge shive not knocking down, Swift Justice chain into shove etc. Ubisoft takes forever to patch the game, and when they do, they barely fix anything. Yet something as small and insignificant as Warden's Shoulder Bash switch gets fixed almost immediately.

Yes, its true, but even patched, the only viable way to deal damage is to turtle up and mix up, boring.with these changes will be more balanced overall imho.

Its not like would be broken, I mean, removing the turtle shove 50/50 is basically what makes him annoying in the current meta, having heavies and lights more fast would only bring him in line with other heroes.

To name one, centurion has heavies faster than LB lights. LOL

TheMalakith
05-19-2017, 03:25 AM
No, these are the official valors of the last buffs, copy pasted from the official website. So they are accurate 100%
As you can see the valors inside the parenthesis are the vanilla ones and the others outside them are the ones after the buffs




Conq needs a full rework, is already OP. But he is cheap, and boring a full rework could work with him. But they already said they will talk about him beeing tweaked AFTER the defensive meta fix.

Kensei will be buffed, they already said that. Its not like kensei needs a buff or something, he is already very good, its the current meta that makes him not viable at all.



Yes, its true, but even patched, the only viable way to deal damage is to turtle up and mix up, boring.with these changes will be more balanced overall imho.

Its not like would be broken, I mean, removing the turtle shove 50/50 is basically what makes him annoying in the current meta, having heavies and lights more fast would only bring him in line with other heroes.

To name one, centurion has heavies faster than LB lights. LOL

Ah my bad. I thought you meant you wanted it buffed to the amount that wasn't inside the parenthesis. What speeds would you want to give the heavy's then? I think 500ms is fine for the lights.

dekot11
05-19-2017, 03:29 AM
watch them just give everybody more unblockables

Arekonator
05-19-2017, 03:37 AM
Nearly Rep 20 LB here.
Want to give my two cents on it, will try to keep it simple.
Slightly speeding up side light openers to be in line with the top light i can get behind.
Blind Justice is imo ok as is, but if you want to buff it, make it either unparriable OR feintable, not both. Unless you want to introduce getting into 50/50 as punish for a parry. I dont personally like it, but i guess it could be ok when(if) the defense meta gets dismantled.
Whether to further buff Long **** depends if you view it as teamfighting tool or 1v1 tool. If you make it any faster or easier to land, it could get ridiculously broken in teamfights. Its still pretty powerfull in Xv1 as long as your teammates are not getting in your way. Adding hyperarmor past the startup frames is something i could get behind, could allow you to trade with some incoming moves if you make good read. Sidesteping both Long **** and valk sweep is granting free GB as is so i think thats ok.
Make Way is guaranteed finish on someone in regen range when you get a parry, even if they are out of reach for every other possible followup. Its already unipteruptable which makes it really nice when you are outnumbered. Dont know what more you want from it. Maybe it could apply a stun on secondary targets, instead of knockdown, but i think its fine as is.
Impaling riposte is inconsistent, sometimes not guaranteed even when it should be. Just looking at it and possibly fixing it is enough for me.
Block shove - the free mixup needs to go, i agree. Let me still followup with attack chain or GB after the shove tho, just make it so it doesnt guarantee anything.

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 03:43 AM
Ah my bad. I thought you meant you wanted it buffed to the amount that wasn't inside the parenthesis. What speeds would you want to give the heavy's then? I think 500ms is fine for the lights.

You misread.

The 500ms are the ones BETWEEN the comboes. I think ( not sure tho) that top light and side lights are slower.. Heavies are totally not viable in my experience. Too slow.

Top heavy 1000 ms is a full second, is insane. Should be way faster 850 would work just fine, Unblockable too, but as I said if they rework blind justice with the defensive meta fix ( no more gusranteed on parry)

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 03:53 AM
Nearly Rep 20 LB here.
Want to give my two cents on it, will try to keep it simple.
Slightly speeding up side light openers to be in line with the top light i can get behind.
Blind Justice is imo ok as is, but if you want to buff it, make it either unparriable OR feintable, not both. Unless you want to introduce getting into 50/50 as punish for a parry. I dont personally like it, but i guess it could be ok when(if) the defense meta gets dismantled.
Whether to further buff Long **** depends if you view it as teamfighting tool or 1v1 tool. If you make it any faster or easier to land, it could get ridiculously broken in teamfights. Its still pretty powerfull in Xv1 as long as your teammates are not getting in your way. Adding hyperarmor past the startup frames is something i could get behind, could allow you to trade with some incoming moves if you make good read. Sidesteping both Long **** and valk sweep is granting free GB as is so i think thats ok.
Make Way is guaranteed finish on someone in regen range when you get a parry, even if they are out of reach for every other possible followup. Its already unipteruptable which makes it really nice when you are outnumbered. Dont know what more you want from it. Maybe it could apply a stun on secondary targets, instead of knockdown, but i think its fine as is.
Impaling riposte is inconsistent, sometimes not guaranteed even when it should be. Just looking at it and possibly fixing it is enough for me.
Block shove - the free mixup needs to go, i agree. Let me still followup with attack chain or GB after the shove tho, just make it so it doesnt guarantee anything.

ty for the reply.

Blind justice imho is not ok. Because doing it after a heavy parry only means you get punished. Its just nonsense. If they will remove the free damage after a parry ( I HOPE THEY WILL) then it will need a buff for sure.

About long arm, is not that powerfull IMHO, shugoki and valk can literally chain stun your for weeks, long arm needs more positionng and doesn't offer the same disabling of valk and shugs. But as I said I would totally rework it to make it a mix up like raider stunning cancel off heavies. Hyper armor would be fine if they decide to keep it that way, so if you have a good read you can trade damage for it. Right now is almost useless in 1v1

MAKE WAY is in the wrong concept. An aoe stun/knockback like valks for just defensive purposes ( since now we are one of the slowest class in the game) seems fair for me, as i said no free damage must come from this knockdown.

Impa riposte is bugged, but in a different meta it would need a rework, or people will just wait for a parry > impa reposte > ledge GG As i said they should remove the fact that you can pull people off ledges, but make guaranteed so i can use it to impale you to walls.

Block shove "50/50" needs to disappear asap.

TheMalakith
05-19-2017, 12:44 PM
You misread.

The 500ms are the ones BETWEEN the comboes. I think ( not sure tho) that top light and side lights are slower.. Heavies are totally not viable in my experience. Too slow.

Top heavy 1000 ms is a full second, is insane. Should be way faster 850 would work just fine, Unblockable too, but as I said if they rework blind justice with the defensive meta fix ( no more gusranteed on parry)

The ones between the combo are 500 now, top was already and normal side lights are 600. Which is slow and easy to block and parry. I'm rep 13 with the LB btw.

850 might be good. I personally also think hyper armor on the unblockable would be nice. Atm you either get hit, parried or even guard breaked during the attack.

vgrimr_J
05-19-2017, 01:07 PM
do not touch my lawbro

UrWaifuAintReal
05-19-2017, 01:21 PM
Well Lawbringer's getting a buff to his guard change, plus with the upcoming change to the defensive meta, he'll be fine. He's supposed to be a defensive character and get a lot off parrying.

In short he needs no change.

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 01:56 PM
Well Lawbringer's getting a buff to his guard change, plus with the upcoming change to the defensive meta, he'll be fine. He's supposed to be a defensive character and get a lot off parrying.

In short he needs no change.

No he is not.

Whats the advantage in defending with him ? None, you can 50/50 spam yeah, but thats not how you are supposedto play the game anyway.

Blind justice which is supposed to be the parry punish, is completely useless, we cannot combo because as you can see he is too damn slow.

Now that shinobi is out you will realize how slow Lb is, when you will desperately try to hit him with a 1000 ms heavy. Or that centurion heavies are faster than LB lights, to start with.

Have you seen how people play him, block > shove, block > shove, just watch the s2 stream where that guy cartoonz turtled up for 2 full matches, was pathetic to watch, but I understand why they do this, in this current meta you cannot take the risk to combo, especially if are tthat slow.

Speaking about the guard change is not a buff, is just the damn most smart thing to do because having guard 's switch speed disparity between classes is ****ing stupid.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-19-2017, 02:19 PM
No he is not.

Whats the advantage in defending with him ? None, you can 50/50 spam yeah, but thats not how you are supposedto play the game anyway.

Blind justice which is supposed to be the parry punish, is completely useless, we cannot combo because as you can see he is too damn slow.

You're are supposed to use blind justice off only light parry, and it's guaranteed against everyone but Conq, also the stun itself can potentionally lead to a mix up.

And if you don't want to use blind justice because it doesn't directly combo, you can always use impalring riposte, which is guaranteed off light parrying regardless of timing, normaly side heavy that leads to the shove mix up.

For heavy parry, you can either impaling riposte (must input right at the moment of parrying for heavy parry)/Make Way/ or light riposte that stuns the opponent leads to a variaty of mix ups.



Now that shinobi is out you will realize how slow Lb is, when you will desperately try to hit him with a 1000 ms heavy. Or that centurion heavies are faster than LB lights, to start with.

Well, Shinobi really does **** on Lawbring so I'll give you that, but Lawbringer is perfectly capable of standing toe to toe against centurion, and lawbringer's light attacks are 500ms for the top, 600ms for the side, centurion's heavy is 600ms minimum, so no, they're not faster than your light.




Speaking about the guard change is not a buff, is just the damn most smart thing to do because having guard 's switch speed disparity between classes is ****ing stupid.

The guard change buff is actually huge for lawbringer who relies a lot on parrying to get the majority of his damage off.

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 02:30 PM
You're are supposed to use blind justice off only light parry, and it's guaranteed against everyone but Conq. For heavy parry, you can either impaling riposte (must input right at the moment of parrying for heavy parry)/Make Way/ or light riposte that stuns the opponent leads to a variaty of mix ups.



Well, Shinobi really does **** on Lawbring so I'll give you that, but Lawbringer is perfectly capable of standing toe to toe against centurion, and lawbringer's light attacks are 500ms for the top, 600ms for the side, centurion's heavy is 600ms minimum, so no, they're not faster than your light.



The guard change buff is actually huge for lawbringer who relies a lot of parrying to get the majority of his damage off.



The light > top heavy damage is a thing of all classes. If you just turtle and parry, every class can do it, some of them do better like warlords who will just parry > gb gg push you on the other side of he map.

The biggest damage output comes from block > shove which is sn atrocius bad mechanic.

Blind justice is a self punish if you land it on a heavy parry, and that is beyond the realm of the absurd. Impailing riposte is bugged. Make way is useless and not worthy atm.

As you can see this class lacks options, real ones because just turtling and shove block over and over and over is just weird, and totally not the way this class is meant to be played. So we need mixu ups, speed increased in out attacks, and ABOVE all, the damn shove block nerfed and reversed as it was before, just a push back tool to take a breathe.

Speaking aboutlight riposte it really doesn't open for nothing because after that you can do 3 things a 1000 MS top heavy/ 900ms side heavy a light or a GB. And thats the most various mix up we have atthe moment. The heavies can be blocked without problems, the light can land but will do 15 damage, so in total you land a parry to deal 15 damage.

This class needs to be faster, needs to bring more options, and the shove 5050 is AIDS.

little reminder

https://youtu.be/uQFqKsNykH0?t=233

I dare you to say its meant to be played like that

Lyskir
05-19-2017, 02:35 PM
ok then speed up raiders light and heavy attacks, he is slower than LB

UrWaifuAintReal
05-19-2017, 02:37 PM
The light > top heavy damage is a thing of all classes. If you just turtle and parry, every class can do it, some of them do better like warlords who will just parry > gb gg push you on the other side of he map.

The biggest damage output comes from block > shove which is sn atrocius bad mechanic.

Blind justice is a self punish if you land it on a heavy parry, and that is beyond the realm of the absurd. Impailing riposte is bugged. Make way is useless and not worthy atm.

As you can see this class lacks options, real ones because just turtling and shove block over and over and over is just weird, and totally not the way this class is meant to be played. So we need mixu ups, speed increased in out attacks, and ABOVE all, the damn shove block nerfed and reversed as it was before, just a push back tool to take a breathe.

Speaking aboutlight riposte it really doesn't open for nothing because after that you can do 3 things a 1000 MS top heavy/ 900ms side heavy a light or a GB. And thats the most various mix up we have atthe moment. The heavies can be blocked without problems, the light can land but will do 15 damage, so in total you land a parry to deal 15 damage.

This class needs to be faster, needs to bring more options, and the shove 5050 is AIDS.

little reminder

https://youtu.be/uQFqKsNykH0?t=233

I dare you to say its meant to be played like that

Read the edited post, also impaling riposte isn't bugged, just the timing is really tight, you have to input it right at the exact moment of a heavy parry.

Also it's funny that you hate the turtle meta but also hate 50/50, while in other fighting games , unreactable 50/50s are intentional by the developers and are the only way to break the turtle simply because good players can react to everything and thus the turtle meta becomes a thing, which is the exact problem why the turtle meta is so strong with this game, too many things that are easily reactable.

TheLastPandaa
05-19-2017, 02:45 PM
In my opinion LB is on a perfect spot of balance rigt now.

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 03:07 PM
Read the edited post, also impaling riposte isn't bugged, just the timing is really tight, you have to input it right at the exact moment of a heavy parry.

Also it's funny that you hate the turtle meta but also hate 50/50, while in other fighting games , unreactable 50/50s are intentional by the developers and are the only way to break the turtle simply because good players can react to everything and thus the turtle meta becomes a thing, which is the exact problem why the turtle meta is so strong with this game, too many things that are easily reactable.
OIthers game are not for honor

In my opinion LB is on a perfect spot of balance rigt now.

He is not.He is broken under many aspects, and surely its surely used how was not intended to be used.


ok then speed up raiders light and heavy attacks, he is slower than LB

Thats fine, create your own thread with your own opinion about the raider adjustements, Oh little spoiler, he is not.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-19-2017, 03:09 PM
OIthers game are not for honor


Good argument there mate.

So you'd rather have shinobi's unpunishable kick and PK's flicker zone to break turtles instead? Cuz that's how people play at high level play, turtle and spam safe attacks simply because everything else is reactable and punishable, would you rather that the game becomes a spamfest of safe attacks?

Oh wait it's already is.

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 03:13 PM
Good argument there mate.

So you'd rather have shinobi's unpunishable kick and PK's flicker zone to break turtles instead? Cuz that's how people play at high level play, turtle and spam safe attacks simply because everything else is reactable and punishable.

Im not saying this, and Im not talking about shinobi.

Im talking about LB and L is not viable unless you turtle up and start to spam the block shove "50/50". Since im tired to see every single LB using the same strategy ( which I admit, it doesn't even work vs competent players) im asking to these changes, so people will start to play this awesome class. Thats all.

Every form of spammable 50/50 is pure AIDS to the game. And I hope you understand why

UrWaifuAintReal
05-19-2017, 03:16 PM
Im not saying this, and Im not talking about shinobi.

Im talking about LB and L is not viable unless you turtle up and start to spam the block shove "50/50". Since im tired to see every single LB using the same strategy ( which I admit, it doesn't even work vs competent players) im asking to these changes, so people will start to play this awesome class. Thats all.

You should be aware that at high level play, even 500ms attack at all directions isn't safe, the only thing that's been carrying PK is flicker zone that is very low risk, also her light and heavy wind up look near identical so parrying her light is also risky as the heavy can be soft feinted directly into GB/light, so they're kinda mini 50/50s themselves.



Every form of spammable 50/50 is pure AIDS to the game. And I hope you understand why

Your opinion.

Might wanna take a look at this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/64fgb0/do_5050s_add_anything_meaningful_to_fighting/

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 03:21 PM
You should be aware that at high level play, even 500ms attack at all directions isn't safe, the only thing that's been carrying PK is flicker zone that is very low risk.



Your opinion.

Might wanna take a look at this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/64fgb0/do_5050s_add_anything_meaningful_to_fighting/


I sincerely do not care how "pros" play this game. This game has comboes, that I cannot execte. And thats goes against the original game design.


I prefer pk's spam over warden vortex 50/50. Yes.

This is not a regular fighting game. Even kensei has a 50/50 but he need to earn it with a full combo, warden can spam it from nowhere, LB just need to never attack first. That goes against the game design of this product, thats why I'd like to see the above changes. FAtsre attacks, more options. Read carefully the part about SHOVE, you will understand better my whole point.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-19-2017, 03:22 PM
I sincerely do not care how "pros" play this game. This game has comboes, that I cannot execte. And thats goes against the original game design.


I prefer pk's spam over warden vortex 50/50. Yes.

Suit yourself, I prefer something that add a layer of mind game into the game rather than mindless buttons smashing.

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 04:07 PM
Suit yourself, I prefer something that add a layer of mind game into the game rather than mindless buttons smashing.

WHich is fine, but how mind game is involved in just ignore the full combo list and just turtle > shove ? Thats what im saying, the game design should be focused arou nd comboes, and the mind games should come from there, not from turtling.

WHich is exactly what im asking in this thread.

TheLastPandaa
05-19-2017, 04:09 PM
OIthers game are not for honor


He is not.He is broken under many aspects, and surely its surely used how was not intended to be used.



Thats fine, create your own thread with your own opinion about the raider adjustements, Oh little spoiler, he is not.

I am not an expert on the LB. I find quite interesting what you just sayed. Can you explain the reasons please?

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 04:11 PM
I am not an expert on the LB. I find quite interesting what you just sayed. Can you explain the reasons please?

Most of his "counter attacks" don't work. And the block > shove bypass entirely the class mechanics. Blind justice is useless, because its guarantee donly on ligh parries will be more accurate if you neeed.

kweassa1917
05-19-2017, 04:14 PM
Whinebringers... they never change, do they. ROFL :rolleyes:

TheLastPandaa
05-19-2017, 04:20 PM
Most of his "counter attacks" don't work. And the block > shove bypass entirely the class mechanics. Blind justice is useless, because its guarantee donly on ligh parries will be more accurate if you neeed.

Thank you!

I agree with you that Blind Justice is not very usefull when comes after a parry, but i think the real reason is not that is only granted after parryng a light, but becuse it can not be feinted when follow a heavy parry. That simple fact would give lb much more opcions whe he faces an other long range heroe like nobu. But that is a minimun change. I really do not have problems using his counters. I just arrived to R7 with the LB so im far to know all about him, but i really like how he is now.

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 07:07 PM
Whinebringers... they never change, do they. ROFL :rolleyes:

Sometimes it seems you comments are written by the dog you have on the avatar. He also seems way more smart than you.


Thank you!

I agree with you that Blind Justice is not very usefull when comes after a parry, but i think the real reason is not that is only granted after parryng a light, but becuse it can not be feinted when follow a heavy parry. That simple fact would give lb much more opcions whe he faces an other long range heroe like nobu. But that is a minimun change. I really do not have problems using his counters. I just arrived to R7 with the LB so im far to know all about him, but i really like how he is now.

Well, even if you make it feintable, its always a 1100 ms top heavy. Its absurd. Should be way more fast to be effective. I'd rather have the damage nerfed but a nice speed buff. So we could use it more in our mixups.


Also, try to hit the new edge lords shinobis with a top heavy LOL. Its funny

JarlYolo
05-19-2017, 07:11 PM
LB for sure dont need buff, they good as they are already

TheLastPandaa
05-19-2017, 07:27 PM
In my experience with this game, every heavy that is not granted, is going to be parryed no matter how fast it comes. So, under that point of view i really prefer to be able to feint a heavy before see its speed or dmg increased. Feinting gives you so many options, specially when is an unblockable atack. Imagine the potential mind game and dmg you can deal to an exhausted oponent for example:

You parry him and go for the unblock top heavy. Generally your exausted oponent has 3 posible options:
1. Stay still without move praying for it to be a feint.
2. Try to parry it praying for it to not be a feint.
3. Side or backward dash and pray for you to not feint it and istead go for a Gb or a light.

That mind game is priceless. Not to mention the huge dmg potential:

Example:
Your oponent side dash>you feint and go for a gb> heavy atack> shove> and now the mind game starts again: Will you go for a new heavy? Will you feint that heavy? Or will you go for a light? or perhaps a GB? Will your oponent be able to react correctly to avoid your ofensive and punish you?

See what i mean?

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 07:39 PM
LB for sure dont need buff, they good as they are already
You should really read the text under the title which clearly you didn't.


In my experience with this game, every heavy that is not granted, is going to be parryed no matter how fast it comes. So, under that point of view i really prefer to be able to feint a heavy before see its speed increased. Feinting gives you so many options, specially when is an unblockable atack. Imagine the potential mind game and dmg you can deal to an exhausted oponent for example:

You parry him and go for the top heavy. Generally your exausted oponent has 3 posible options:
1. Stay still without move praying for it to be a feint.
2. Try to parry it praying for it to not be a feint.
3. Side or backward dash and pray for you to not feint it and istead go for a Gb or a light.

That mind game is priceless. Not to mention the huge dmg potential:

Example:
Your oponent side dash>you feint and go for a gb> heavy atack> shove> and now the mind game starts again: Will you go for a heavy? Will you feint that heavy? Or will you go for a light? or perhaps a GB? Will your oponent be able to react correctly to avoid your ofensive and punish you?

See what i mean?

Absolutely but here come the assassin that will shut you down with a simple back dodge that will both avoid the hit and avoid the hypothetical gb feint.

If you think a little right now a raider have twice the mix up options of a lb and they can disable you as good as lb's.

Especially now that centurions are live

TheLastPandaa
05-19-2017, 07:56 PM
Good point.
Yes, an assasin is an exception, that is why i sayed "Generally your exausted oponent has 3 posible options:". But the posibilities that feinting that top heavy gives you are still better than the ones you would get if ubi buff its speed without granting the dmg. If you can feint it you have the chance to deal dmg and also to start a combo. If you can not feint it and the hit is not granted you get nothing but to be parryed.

I had the raider in mind when i wrote that but as we were having a nice talk here about the LB, i did not want to bring a new element to the table. You know how this forum works. A good LB top heavy conversation can easily evolve in a tempest of insults between ppl defending that LB is better than Raider or Raider being better than LB. I am not interested on that.

Netcode_err_404
05-19-2017, 08:06 PM
Good point.
Yes, an assasin is an exception, that is why i sayed "Generally your exausted oponent has 3 posible options:". But the posibilities that feinting that top heavy gives you are still better than the ones you would get if ubi buff its speed without granting the dmg. If you can feint it you have the chance to deal dmg and also to start a combo. If you can not feint it and the hit is not granted you get nothing but to be parryed.

I had the raider in mind when i wrote that but as we were having a nice talk here about the LB, i did not want to bring a new element to the table. You know how this forum works. A good LB top heavy conversation can easily evolve in a tempest of insults between ppl defending that LB is better than Raider or Raider being better than LB. I am not interested on that.

The damage will be granted unless they change it with defensive meta ( which I HOPE) in that case blind justice will need a huge buff to be usefull, but i speak about these stuff onthe original post.

However, I do not care as you said to start a raider s LB flame, thats not my point, infact i named the raider because I really like the option they give to him, and i'd like the same buffs applied to as much classes as possible because "varius" gameplay ( varius means different in latin :P)

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
05-19-2017, 08:16 PM
Rep 20 LB here

Personally in the current meta he serves his role as a counter attacker well, and what you're asking for is opener options, which would make him an offensive character.
If anything I want two nerfs on him lol.
Take away the 50/50 shove mechanic. Keep the speed, make it blockable.
Put a small delay on Long Arm after it connects, to prevent spamming in ganks.

All of his parries are situational, but has at least one for every situation. And they also all work, don't know why people say that they don't.

Near a wall or cliff? Impaling reposte
Parried a light? Blind Justice
Need a fail safe for any situation? light riposte
Surrounded? Make way.

Once the defensive meta changes, we'll see what should be done, as that will obviously affect him enormously.

He's in a good spot rn, and once he gets the guard stance buff, he will be even better.

Netcode_err_404
05-20-2017, 12:11 AM
Rep 20 LB here

Personally in the current meta he serves his role as a counter attacker well, and what you're asking for is opener options, which would make him an offensive character.
If anything I want two nerfs on him lol.
Take away the 50/50 shove mechanic. Keep the speed, make it blockable.
Put a small delay on Long Arm after it connects, to prevent spamming in ganks.

All of his parries are situational, but has at least one for every situation. And they also all work, don't know why people say that they don't.

Near a wall or cliff? Impaling reposte
Parried a light? Blind Justice
Need a fail safe for any situation? light riposte
Surrounded? Make way.

Once the defensive meta changes, we'll see what should be done, as that will obviously affect him enormously.

He's in a good spot rn, and once he gets the guard stance buff, he will be even better.


I understand what you say, but a little buff to his heavies woudn't hurt the general balance. Most the dmage output comes from a lame block > shove 50/50, removing it would mean buffing the others comboes or it would become as useless as d1.

Netcode_err_404
05-20-2017, 02:20 AM
Rep 20 LB here

Personally in the current meta he serves his role as a counter attacker well, and what you're asking for is opener options, which would make him an offensive character.
If anything I want two nerfs on him lol.
Take away the 50/50 shove mechanic. Keep the speed, make it blockable.
Put a small delay on Long Arm after it connects, to prevent spamming in ganks.

All of his parries are situational, but has at least one for every situation. And they also all work, don't know why people say that they don't.

Near a wall or cliff? Impaling reposte
Parried a light? Blind Justice
Need a fail safe for any situation? light riposte
Surrounded? Make way.

Once the defensive meta changes, we'll see what should be done, as that will obviously affect him enormously.

He's in a good spot rn, and once he gets the guard stance buff, he will be even better.

Impailing reposte is bugged, im 100% sure but i don't know how to proove it. Try with a friend in private with different classes !!!

Felis_Menari
05-20-2017, 03:49 AM
Reduce LB HP? Hell naw. He's part heavy; he should have an appropriate amount of HP. The follow-up light after Shove should retain its current damage. If anything, the guaranteed light off of block>Shove should be made blockable; the guaranteed light off of dodge>Shove is fine (if you think otherwise, then you must equally hate Shoulder Bash, Shield Bash, and Headbutt. But they are clearly staying, so why hate on dodge>Shove->light?)

And all heavies can ledge enemies. In order for the no-ledge Impale to make sense, all other pledging moves (Raider charge included) would have to lose their ledge-ability. Clearly, pledging is here to stay. Thusly, so is pledging Impale. As for any buffs...I think we should wait on the supposed turtle-meta breaker the devs are working on, before implementing buffs to his chains. For Long Arm, I think it should either be feintable or get hyper armor, not both. Then again, the Shinobi gets a 50/50 off of a hyper armor move, doesn't he (haven't been able to play sin e before season 2)? If so, why not add some tasty parmesan onto this mountain of cheese, the devs are building? lol

And yes, Make Way is still broken (please fix it devs; this is getting kind of sad, at this point).

Netcode_err_404
05-20-2017, 11:55 AM
LB for sure dont need buff, they good as they are already


In my experience with this game, every heavy that is not granted, is going to be parryed no matter how fast it comes. So, under that point of view i really prefer to be able to feint a heavy before see its speed or dmg increased. Feinting gives you so many options, specially when is an unblockable atack. Imagine the potential mind game and dmg you can deal to an exhausted oponent for example:



You parry him and go for the unblock top heavy. Generally your exausted oponent has 3 posible options:
1. Stay still without move praying for it to be a feint.
2. Try to parry it praying for it to not be a feint.
3. Side or backward dash and pray for you to not feint it and istead go for a Gb or a light.

That mind game is priceless. Not to mention the huge dmg potential:

Example:
Your oponent side dash>you feint and go for a gb> heavy atack> shove> and now the mind game starts again: Will you go for a new heavy? Will you feint that heavy? Or will you go for a light? or perhaps a GB? Will your oponent be able to react correctly to avoid your ofensive and punish you?

See what i mean?


Reduce LB HP? Hell naw. He's part heavy; he should have an appropriate amount of HP. The follow-up light after Shove should retain its current damage. If anything, the guaranteed light off of block>Shove should be made blockable; the guaranteed light off of dodge>Shove is fine (if you think otherwise, then you must equally hate Shoulder Bash, Shield Bash, and Headbutt. But they are clearly staying, so why hate on dodge>Shove->light?)

And all heavies can ledge enemies. In order for the no-ledge Impale to make sense, all other pledging moves (Raider charge included) would have to lose their ledge-ability. Clearly, pledging is here to stay. Thusly, so is pledging Impale. As for any buffs...I think we should wait on the supposed turtle-meta breaker the devs are working on, before implementing buffs to his chains. For Long Arm, I think it should either be feintable or get hyper armor, not both. Then again, the Shinobi gets a 50/50 off of a hyper armor move, doesn't he (haven't been able to play sin e before season 2)? If so, why not add some tasty parmesan onto this mountain of cheese, the devs are building? lol

And yes, Make Way is still broken (please fix it devs; this is getting kind of sad, at this point).

Well if you speed him up a little hp nerf woudn't hurt.

Sure thing is he needs to be faster right now catching a shinobi with 1000 ms attacks is beyond the realm of the impossible.

Overall seem reasonable slight buffs and more than reasonable nerfs.

Ggshadow
05-20-2017, 12:08 PM
Well if you speed him up a little hp nerf woudn't hurt.

Sure thing is he needs to be faster right now catching a shinobi with 1000 ms attacks is beyond the realm of the impossible.

Overall seem reasonable slight buffs and more than reasonable nerfs.

If you touch the Shinobi he is mid life lol
Your Lawbringer is the best tank of the game now stop to try, he really don't need buff

TheLastPandaa
05-20-2017, 12:15 PM
Well if you speed him up a little hp nerf woudn't hurt.

Sure thing is he needs to be faster right now catching a shinobi with 1000 ms attacks is beyond the realm of the impossible.

Overall seem reasonable slight buffs and more than reasonable nerfs.

You must be doing something very wrong then. I have no problem destroying shinobis with the LB as it is now. :confused:
Edit to add: I do have problems vs Valks tho, so i guess is all about the play style we have..

Netcode_err_404
05-20-2017, 12:25 PM
If you touch the Shinobi he is mid life lol
Your Lawbringer is the best tank of the game now stop to try, he really don't need buff

He is a tank just because in defending you gain access a less kind of "50/50" but thats its unfun for me that I play LB and for you that have it against. Its not a improve list because im mad and I want to be the next warlord. I would like these changes to make him a little more active character. I have no problem in turtling up and spamming shoves like this one
https://youtu.be/uQFqKsNykH0?t=215 but again if you like that kind of cancer good for you, ther are players here that do not enjoy the way its played rght now.

Before the buffs he was pretty much the worst character in the game, the only buffs he recieved is the defending mix up which is lame.


You must be doing something very wrong then. I have no problem destroying shinobis with the LB as it is now. :confused:
Edit to add: I do have problems vs Valks tho, so i guess is all about the play style we have..

Im not talking about weebs scrubs that pick him pretending they are some sort of anime god that eats ramen, im talking about competent players who know they need to play defensively.

Valks are very strong now, not surprised you have problems against them

Netcode_err_404
05-21-2017, 01:00 PM
I wanted even to talk about its feats, but well, feats as a whole are completely unbalanced, so.

Btw a good look at its feats woudn't hurt

Felis_Menari
05-21-2017, 03:58 PM
Well if you speed him up a little hp nerf woudn't hurt.

Sure thing is he needs to be faster right now catching a shinobi with 1000 ms attacks is beyond the realm of the impossible.

Overall seem reasonable slight buffs and more than reasonable nerfs.

If a buff is necessary just to compete, then a nerf on the other end doesn't make much sense, now does it?

Netcode_err_404
05-21-2017, 05:00 PM
If a buff is necessary just to compete, then a nerf on the other end doesn't make much sense, now does it?

Its not to compete, Lb can compete now, but in the wrong way Exactrly the same problems with conqs, pk.


https://youtu.be/uQFqKsNykH0?t=215


Doing what cartoonz is doing goes AGAINST the original core game design. And needs to be stopped here and now.

To balance him out without this block BS i would call a speed buff on his attacks, because right now at least on pc every light can easily be parried.

Even I can parry very often LB lights, and I don't even parry that often cuz is totally game breaking right now.

Felis_Menari
05-21-2017, 05:57 PM
Its not to compete, Lb can compete now, but in the wrong way Exactrly the same problems with conqs, pk.


https://youtu.be/uQFqKsNykH0?t=215


Doing what cartoonz is doing goes AGAINST the original core game design. And needs to be stopped here and now.

To balance him out without this block BS i would call a speed buff on his attacks, because right now at least on pc every light can easily be parried.

Even I can parry very often LB lights, and I don't even parry that often cuz is totally game breaking right now.

I fail to see what is wrong with the section of video you linked. How is it any different from how other characters are played in high level gameplay? People turtle and look for reliable, guaranteed (or semi-guaranteed) damage; end of story. If you want LBs to be able to more effectively do more than just turtle under such circumstances, the turtle meta itself needs to be addressed.

l8knight347
05-21-2017, 06:15 PM
Why not just give hyperarmor on zone, make long arm after a back dodge not have any pause. remove shove after block totally but give hyperarmor after a blocked attack for a second or 2 just enough time to get an attack off. he is suppose to be a counter attacker.

l8knight347
05-21-2017, 06:44 PM
I wanted even to talk about its feats, but well, feats as a whole are completely unbalanced, so.

Btw a good look at its feats woudn't hurt
LB has the worst feats in the game.

Felis_Menari
05-21-2017, 10:47 PM
LB has the worst feats in the game.

Harsh Judgement, Juggernaut, and Regenerate. I'd love to get those Warlord passives instead 😁. Though with the nerf to survivability since season 2 hit, maybe we can get the old Regenerate back (regen while not sprinting or locked on)? Of course, add another requirement of not attacking or being attacked to balance it out (or taunting if you want; I don't care). Regenerate in its current form just isn't worth it.

Moondyne_MC
05-21-2017, 11:01 PM
LB has the worst feats in the game.

Really? What do they get? I was under the impression my Nobu had the worst feats in the game, haha. Arrow Strike is so laughably bad.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
05-22-2017, 07:09 PM
Impailing reposte is bugged, im 100% sure but i don't know how to proove it. Try with a friend in private with different classes !!!

I tried it with a friend taking your advice to heart, and I found quite the opposite. It works, but the timing is really tight and needs to be preemptively done. I can see why you may have thought it was bugged.
One thing I've noticed is that it negates the hyper armor of the Shugoki, I found that strange, and it may need a fix.

Netcode_err_404
05-22-2017, 07:24 PM
I tried it with a friend taking your advice to heart, and I found quite the opposite. It works, but the timing is really tight and needs to be preemptively done. I can see why you may have thought it was bugged.
One thing I've noticed is that it negates the hyper armor of the Shugoki, I found that strange, and it may need a fix.

I have many doubts about it, they should check it better

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
05-22-2017, 08:59 PM
I have many doubts about it, they should check it better

What do they need to check?

Netcode_err_404
05-22-2017, 11:05 PM
What do they need to check?

The fact is ijmp riposte is not always guaranteed. Many times i imput the command istantly and my opponent was even able to parry it.

LB at the moment is broken, but not in the op meaning.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
05-24-2017, 07:54 PM
The fact is ijmp riposte is not always guaranteed. Many times i imput the command istantly and my opponent was even able to parry it.

LB at the moment is broken, but not in the op meaning.

This may be a problem, but I have never experienced it.

For now, let us agree to disagree.

Netcode_err_404
05-24-2017, 08:17 PM
This may be a problem, but I have never experienced it.

For now, let us agree to disagree.


You can ask around, surely lot of people experienced the same issue

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
05-24-2017, 09:16 PM
You can ask around, surely lot of people experienced the same issue

Perhaps, I'll forum lurk some more I suppose

Thr3shHo1d
05-24-2017, 09:51 PM
While we're giving everyone 50/50's.. why not just remove parry and block from the game entirely? Make all attacks uninterruptable and go balls to the wall on spamming attacks! No, but in all seriousness.. I don't think Lawbringer needs a buff. I think they need to figure out how to get rid of the Turtle Meta entirely before trying to buff or nerf anyone else.. Plan it out.. give everyone their buffs/nerfs needed at the same time in order to break the meta and go from there. But, that's not how real life works. That's not how any of this works.

Netcode_err_404
05-25-2017, 12:31 AM
While we're giving everyone 50/50's.. why not just remove parry and block from the game entirely? Make all attacks uninterruptable and go balls to the wall on spamming attacks! No, but in all seriousness.. I don't think Lawbringer needs a buff. I think they need to figure out how to get rid of the Turtle Meta entirely before trying to buff or nerf anyone else.. Plan it out.. give everyone their buffs/nerfs needed at the same time in order to break the meta and go from there. But, that's not how real life works. That's not how any of this works.

90% of these suggestions keep in mind an eventually defensive nerf. Thats why the "50/50" as you can see would be removed entirely on block, and all attacks should get a speed buff. The neutral shove SHOULD get you a guarantee hit to start some mix ups.

Its all written loud and clear. And yes as a matter of fact LB need a buff, because winning by just turtling up and spam shove, shows clearly that the class lacks OPTIONS.

The three main comboes are completely useless, heavies are too slow, and lights are too slow.



So what remains ? The shove spam, and the parry > blind justice attempts.


So much wow.

kanuzira
05-25-2017, 08:57 AM
Indeed, they should do something woth the lawbringer. currently it is just shove and go

Netcode_err_404
05-25-2017, 07:32 PM
Indeed, they should do something woth the lawbringer. currently it is just shove and go

You centered the point of the whole thread.

Against ckasses that can easily counter the shove you will always lose cuz you literally have 0 options.

Netcode_err_404
06-16-2017, 03:08 PM
So, you gave LB fast guard change, without removing his block > shove "50/50" ?

Smart move ubisoft, you are literally killing this game. Oh well, lot of games are coming out, so, who cares.

That_guy44
06-16-2017, 03:16 PM
Really hope they address this with the defense meta patch. A block for him is child's play now.

Netcode_err_404
06-16-2017, 03:36 PM
Really hope they address this with the defense meta patch. A block for him is child's play now.

Only shove from neutral should guarantee a light, shove from block hshould be used for defensive purposes. And SHOULD NOT allow a mix up start.

The whole point of this thread was buffing him in speed, in his comboes, and REMOVING the block shove damage output.


Instead they did the exact opposite, so now, trash players can turtle up ad infinitum. Spamming shoves from block.


Im not saying that this way you will always win, but its surely boring, and absolutely lame to fight against, especially with some classes.

The whole gameplay is completely ****ed up, its do broken, that I'm not even surprised people are leaving in mass.

kanuzira
07-01-2017, 12:43 PM
I would like to see somewhat less telegraphed attacks.
Also the thing he needs is something like the raider stuntab and an light combo

your points were good and i can see it implimented in the game

Netcode_err_404
07-01-2017, 12:53 PM
I would like to see somewhat less telegraphed attacks.
Also the thing he needs is something like the raider stuntab and an light combo

your points were good and i can see it implimented in the game

Now all classes have 100 ms guard change.

Centurion has 500 ms heavies, and the lb has 1000 ms top heavy. Trololololo

Yoshimitsu_440
07-01-2017, 05:14 PM
Hi,guys, i want to say that I wanted to wait the defenseive meta dismantle before asking these changes to LB, but it seems it will require more than we thought. So here we go here and now.

Lets talk about the "Buffs" what i'd like to see are these minor changes

1)heavies and lights are too slow. Really, except top light which should be 18f rest of attacks are almost useless in the current meta. All attacks mid combo have been buffed in speed and damage which is fine, but the first heavy or light are still too slow to fool anyone, except if an experienced player with many hours on his back.
Curret stats are valors in () are the ones before the 1.4 buffs

Swift Justice (HLH)

Light Attack startup decreased to 500ms (from 700ms).
Top Light Attack damage increased to 15 (from 10).
Side Light Attack damage increased to 15 (from 8).


Book, Chapter and verse (LHL)

Top Heavy Attack startup decreased to 1000ms (from 1100ms).
Side Heavy Attack startups decreased to 900ms (from 1000ms).
Top Heavy attack damage increased to 35 (from 20).
Side Heavy attack damage increased to 30 (from 20).
Top Light Finisher attack damage increased to 15 (from 10).
Side Light Finisher attack damage increased to 15 (from 8).


Judge, Jury and Executioner (LHH)

1st Top Heavy Attack startup decreased to 1000ms (from 1100ms).
1st Side Heavy Attack startups decreased to 900ms (from 1000ms).
Heavy Finisher Unblockable attack damage increased to 45 (from 30).

Seems a little bit weak imho.
2)Blind justice Is useless, I mean yes does 5 nore damage than a warden top heavy which is ridicolous enough, But the best parts comes when you realize you cannot feint it, so if you do on a heavy parry you will get parried 99% of the times and get GB

While I know on lights is guaranteed, is not really a LB unique move, every class has a top heavy guaranteed on a light parry. Which I hope they will remove that thing with the turtle meta patch.

Now what I ask are essentially 2 things

- make unparriable but dodgeable

- make it feintable

Right now is almost useless.
3)Long arm. Yes I know in 4v4 they are annoying, but so are pretty much half of the classes ( not to mention the new ones) so here what i suggest.
Make it feintable
Add hyper armor during the animation

OR just make it a little bit more fast. Right now dodging the long arm, is not only easy, is even ultra rewarding, unlike valks. Which is way more hard to read.

4)Shove Thera are 2 things that are sure on this world, the death, and dodging an incoming shove. So heres my suggestions.

Dodge > shove nneds to grant ( grant for real this time) one single light, ofc the light's damage needs to be as minimal as possible, and that light should open to some mix ups.such as:

dodge > shove > granted light > top unblockable heavy ( which will be nerfed reducing its damage from 45 to 40.

5) MAke way Right now is both useless and broken, so again the change I would make is just make it work like valk sweep, Ofc that serves as defensive tools, so no damage granted to people knocked down.

6)Impaling reposte Same as above, right now is still broken. Just fix it and reduce the throw distance so it will be used on near walls or objects.


Now lets talk about the nerfs I would make

1) Block shove : Yes thats right blocking won't guarantee mix ups, just rework it like it was before, just push far the attackers. No damage involved. No gb. nothing, just push back.


2) Health pool If most of the above suggestion are ok, you may reduce its Hp.

3) Impailing riposte Just to avoid people waitng you on a cliff in a hypothetical meta where GB are not guaranteed on parries impailing riposte shoud not be the only exception, make it not usable to throw people off cliffs, The game will be better I assure you.

Now lets talk about some of the hypothetical changes in case defensive meta will be fixed.



1) Blind justice If guaranteed damage after a parry will be confirmed BJ will become useless. I would like to hear more opinions about it.

2)DIsabling abilities Long arm is moderate effective in gank situation, but is LA alone enough to define the LB as disabler ? IMHO no. Thats why reworking long arm entirely will be the best solution. Long arm should become a stunning cancel off heavies to add more mix ups like raider one off heavy feint. Again, same as above, lets discuss.




Pretty much all i wanted to say. And before someone comes here claiming I want Lb to be god tier or other nonsenses BS i would like to remember knights have both wardens and pk's already in god tier, and they are vanilla heroes, that means I could re roll warden and who cares. I just want improvements to a class I love, because right now is lame how he is played by the majority of the people.



IMPORTANT

I would like to see the same wall of text regarding the following classes

- PK
- Orochi
- Nobushi

Pref y experienced players, because its a shame they are so ****ing limited even if their combo list is infinite

I am sorry but this wont happen since they already gave him a good patch, in the right hands and with right combos he is really good. I've been waiting for orochi buff for the last 6 weeks and I won't see any prob until season 3. My point is there are planty other characters that in need of work and lb is nowhere near in need of change plus ubi takes forever to change anything.

Netcode_err_404
07-01-2017, 06:38 PM
I am sorry but this wont happen since they already gave him a good patch, in the right hands and with right combos he is really good. I've been waiting for orochi buff for the last 6 weeks and I won't see any prob until season 3. My point is there are planty other characters that in need of work and lb is nowhere near in need of change plus ubi takes forever to change anything.

1) Is not about goor or bad spot, LB is just unfair with his current mechanics

2) 100ms switch guard + defense "50/50" + game's current meta = Cancer

If they want to nehate the turtle meta, LB and conqs need a rework.

This is what I would like to see.


Others classes are perfectly fine, its the meta that makes them weak.


If for some unknown reasons you still think LB is perfectly fine the way it is, enjoy the turtling and the block's shove spam.

I created this thread when i actively played this game, honestly I don't care anymore.

MasterChiefPON
07-01-2017, 07:34 PM
1) Is not about goor or bad spot, LB is just unfair with his current mechanics

2) 100ms switch guard + defense "50/50" + game's current meta = Cancer

If they want to nehate the turtle meta, LB and conqs need a rework.

This is what I would like to see.


Others classes are perfectly fine, its the meta that makes them weak.


If for some unknown reasons you still think LB is perfectly fine the way it is, enjoy the turtling and the block's shove spam.

I created this thread when i actively played this game, honestly I don't care anymore.

Today I'm playing Berserker and I fought another Berserker who switched to Lawbringer after he lost, I still won but it was a lot more closer because the guy was blocking > shove > blocking > shove, that allows him to turtle and get damage out of it.

Netcode_err_404
07-01-2017, 08:04 PM
Today I'm playing Berserker and I fought another Berserker who switched to Lawbringer after he lost, I still won but it was a lot more closer because the guy was blocking > shove > blocking > shove, that allows him to turtle and get damage out of it.

Yes I know

This thread wants to end this garbage playstyle of the LB's

Netcode_err_404
07-23-2017, 01:22 AM
Blind justice is gonna become a meme if devs do not actually fix this class :(

Arekonator
07-23-2017, 01:46 AM
Not even OOS punish necause you wont be able to bait a parry with unblockable...
Making it feintable seem like good idea now, not getting confirmed damage from parry but opening up a mixup which might give you some would imo fit well into the new planned meta.

Netcode_err_404
07-23-2017, 02:08 AM
Not even OOS punish necause you wont be able to bait a parry with unblockable...
Making it feintable seem like good idea now, not getting confirmed damage from parry but opening up a mixup which might give you some would imo fit well into the new planned meta.

Most classes can just back dodge to be safe from both GB and the attack.

Netcode_err_404
07-24-2017, 05:34 PM
also i'm surprised Warden's not on the list for "wall of text", he has 1 decent combo that can be easily dodged away from.

I don't mplay warden, if you think he needs a rework because is too weak, feel free to make a your own thread.



Also if LB is top 2, my name is Lawrence from arabia.

Netcode_err_404
07-24-2017, 06:53 PM
i might as well, since a lot of people say "he's really good because good" with nothing but vortex to back up their claims.

LB has a ton of unblockables like Cent and makes a pretty good ledger, because if he's backed up to a hole he can just throw them over his head.

Lb has 2 unblockables.

1 of them is dodged every single time, and the other requires a full combo.



And with the upcoming change, most of his kit will also be completely outdated.

Antonioj26
07-24-2017, 06:58 PM
i might as well, since a lot of people say "he's really good because good" with nothing but vortex to back up their claims.

LB has a ton of unblockables like Cent and makes a pretty good ledger, because if he's backed up to a hole he can just throw them over his head.

Lol 2 isn't a ton. One is 700 ms the other is 1000ms...... the proof is in the pudding, warden from the very beginning has had a good showing in tournies and high level play.

Edit: there's also blinding justice which doesn't really matter since it only lands on a light parry, it's no different than just a top heavy from warden or raider aside from it being 5 more damage than wardens light parry punish. The other is his finisher which the last guy pointed out requires a full combo, should pretty much never land on you except on an oos punish mixup

Antonioj26
07-24-2017, 07:13 PM
Warden has a single good combo which is easily dodged out of, there's no justifying how terrible he is be saying 1% of the playerbase is good with him because that 1% could use any character in the game if they chose to.

Oh I get it now, since you don't know how to do something then that means that's the golden standard we should follow. It should have been clear to me since you complain about valks sweep or LBs grandma speed unblockables.

Netcode_err_404
07-24-2017, 07:20 PM
Oh I get it now, since you don't know how to do something then that means that's the golden standard we should follow. It should have been clear to me since you complain about valks sweep or LBs grandma speed unblockables.

Apparently he has no problem dodging warden SB, but struggels against 1000 ms unblockable of the LB.


Okay then. Lets just move on XD

Antonioj26
07-24-2017, 07:23 PM
Apparently he has no problem dodging warden SB, but struggels against 1000 ms unblockable of the LB.


Okay then. Lets just move on XD

Lol good point.

Antonioj26
07-24-2017, 07:48 PM
i know that i'd never be as good a a pro player, but there's a reason pro players a payed money to play video games. they're good at it, and usually pro players aren't one trick ponys like you think. they know how to play every hero very well, hence why they are "pro" players.

but i bet you wouldn't know that, you still think it's hard to dodge out of a vortex when it's really not.

and no LB's "grandma speed" unblockables are atrociously good, especially if they focus on ganking or ledging.

Valkyrie's sweep shouldn't be as easy as it is to reward a knockdown, maybe a stagger at best but that'd be it.

Never said they were one trick ponies so not sure where you got this from, also never said it's hard to get out of wardens vortex.

Shove 700ms
Long arm 1000ms
Unblockable finisher 1100ms

For reference shugos lights are 600ms, so yes those are grandma speed. If you find yourself getting hit by those frequently then you need to practice, this upper midtier character doesn't need to change based on your weaknesses.

How is valks sweep easy to land? You have 3 chances to avoid it, 3!!!!! You can't find a way to block, dodge, or Parry 3 attacks that absolutely have to be done in succession with a tight window? Again, I'm sorry to say but that is just your limited skill. Try looking at it objectively instead of through your own personal biases. I have a ton of trouble against really good orochis but I recognize that's my own weakness and not that the character is overpowered.

Netcode_err_404
07-24-2017, 07:59 PM
I see there is a lot of confusion here.

Lets just stop a moment and lets take a read at the first post.

Now that you all read it you will probably will understand this is not a " buff my main class cuz im bad at it" because i could just unlock the warlord and gg ez.

This is a post to nerf the lb turtling potential by giving him some improvements and legit buffs to his attacks.

I even taken into consideration a possible def meta change.

Now that finally we have some official details regarding the defense meta fix, everyone will understand why lb's will have to be reworked/buffed somehow.

The argument " there are others classes in need of a buff" is stupid.

They surely will have enough man power to actually buff more than 1 class each patch right ?