PDA

View Full Version : Centurion Slaughter - needs to be looked at



Razdulf_AshHorn
05-18-2017, 05:26 AM
okay so i can handle gankers. everyone can if you learn how to there are specific counters put in place to prevent the game from becoming too unbalanced.

but i tell you, you have NOT had a hard time with gankers until youve tried fighting 3 centurions, even 2 if they know how to play him.
this is more of a balancing concern rather then a complaint. like i said i know how to handle packs of people in dominion but i cant get any read on multiple centurions
they overpower any group if there's more then the opposing enemies group

they have such a long chain of attacks and stuns with little stamina setbacks :mad: and also a single centurion with revenge is an unstoppable killing machine but then again so are law bringers and others when they get revenge.

BeefMan_
05-18-2017, 05:34 AM
Both characters are broken as all hell outside of duels. Whenever I see a team in dominion with more than 1 of either new character, I leave.

Dizzy4213
05-18-2017, 05:38 AM
Centurions in a nutshell

https://gfycat.com/SelfreliantGoldenAfricanrockpython

CaptainPwnet
05-18-2017, 05:49 AM
Yup, centurion so far seems VERY broken in teams. Note I said so far, we will see how things pan out over time once everyone is used to new heroes. But Centurion, even 1 on his own with any teammate can CC anyone long enough while doing massive damage at the same time to end any characters life with no chance for counterplay. This normally not too big of an issue since oni's embrace and long arm almost do the same thiong. Long arm not quite so much but same deal. The difference is embrace and long arm ar both very slow and easily dodged if you see them coming. Not to mention global full health over shield to all team is stupid af. Also why does every single unblockable centurion have stun? He literally removes any chance for a person to play if he ganks. Then you think why would a vanguard/assassin have these capabilities that only disablers/heavies have had so far?

Dizzy4213
05-18-2017, 05:52 AM
Yup, centurion so far seems VERY broken in teams. Note I said so far, we will see how things pan out over time once everyone is used to new heroes. But Centurion, even 1 on his own with any teammate can CC anyone long enough while doing massive damage at the same time. This normally not too big of an issue since oni's embrace and long arm almost do the same thiong. Long arm not quite so much but same deal. The difference is embrace and long arm ar both very slow and easily dodged if you see them coming. Not to mention global full health over shield to all team is stupid af. Also why does every single unblockable centurion have stun? He literally removes any chance for a person to play if he ganks.

And he doesn't need a successful hit to jab you, he can do it even if you block. His throws punches and kicks all do damage thanks to another feat as well.

Centurion is the god of ganking in 4v4s. Can't say I'm surprised at how stupid he is. He's Roman's favourite character after all.

CaptainPwnet
05-18-2017, 06:04 AM
And he doesn't need a successful hit to jab you, he can do it even if you block. His throws punches and kicks all do damage thanks to another feat as well.

Centurion is the god of ganking in 4v4s. Can't say I'm surprised at how stupid he is. He's Roman's favourite character after all.

Exactly. I didn't feel like getting into specifics, but seriously the list of BS goes on for this character. In 1v1 aside from his infinite wall stagger combo(supposed to have max 90 damage punish which is still way too much) he isn't too bad. But again in teams he is straihgt busted AF.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-18-2017, 06:04 AM
The Centurian and The Shinobi will not be receiving any major balance changes anytime soon. They will wait for people to get used to the classes and learn to counter them before they do anything.



You people seriously need to calm down and breathe

Mia.Nora
05-18-2017, 06:04 AM
Why didn't anyone mention his Homing Pigeon Attacks?? His attacks has the craziest tracking I've ever seen, to the point they even change their jump direction midair to track you with 180 degree turns.


Whoever thought this hero is not broken is insane.

Cuculis
05-18-2017, 06:07 AM
that long *** cent knockdown / camera **** up is why cents are op

CoyoteXStarrk
05-18-2017, 06:10 AM
Why didn't anyone mention his Homing Pigeon Attacks?? His attacks has the craziest tracking I've ever seen, to the point they even change their jump direction midair to track you with 180 degree turns.


Whoever thought this hero is not broken is insane.

Guess I'm nuts then lol


I have no issues beating them regularly.

CaptainPwnet
05-18-2017, 06:13 AM
The Centurian and The Shinobi will not be receiving any major balance changes anytime soon. They will wait for people to get used to the classes and learn to counter them before they do anything.



You people seriously need to calm down and breathe

I agree and even mentioned that and am also well aware there wont be any changes any time soon. But Having a class that completely removes any chance to fight back without it being seriously telegraphed/avoidable like oni's embrace makes the team modes pretty much just cancerturion domain. As soon as he touches you once in a 2v1 situation, blocked or hit as was said before then it is over. You go from 100% health to 0 without any chance to defend yourself, you can't even see what's going on all the time with the stuns. But it doesnt matter anyways cause you literally can't do anything.

BeefMan_
05-18-2017, 06:14 AM
Guess I'm nuts then lol


I have no issues beating them regularly.

You are literally the only person on this forum that I've seen shilling for these characters this hard. Are you on Ubisoft's payroll or something?

CoyoteXStarrk
05-18-2017, 06:17 AM
You are literally the only person on this forum that I've seen shilling for these characters this hard. Are you on Ubisoft's payroll or something?

No its just I am not a child who thinks just because something beat me makes it OP.

I learn from the mistakes that got me killed and get better.


You should try it.


Once you get his timings down and learn the combos he is a one trick pony.


PS I love how me disagreeing with you automatically makes me a paid employee lol as if there is just NO WAY someone could have a different opinion.

Mia.Nora
05-18-2017, 06:37 AM
No its just I am not a child who thinks just because something beat me makes it OP.
I learn from the mistakes that got me killed and get better.
You should try it.
Once you get his timings down and learn the combos he is a one trick pony.
PS I love how me disagreeing with you automatically makes me a paid employee lol as if there is just NO WAY someone could have a different opinion.

I think you mistake balance for beatable.

Noone claimed they were unbeatable, just because they are beatable does not make them balanced. Simple example any champion in LoL with over %51 winrate over diamond tier is tagged for nerf/rework review by developers.

Centurion just gets way too much for accomplishing an initiation, heck even for failing to do so. Once people get the grasp of it a good portion of old rooster will become obsolete where people only stick to for emotional reasons not practical ones.


For clarity here are the things that make them OP:

1. GB near wall chains into a (probably unforeseen by devs) full HP > kill combo by charged heavy > jab > repeat combo where you lose control of your character for full duration of it.

2. His lunge/kick attacks track much better than similar skills; problem is that if it connects what they get out of it in return is way above what any other character can in terms of confirmed damage AND disabling same time. Real problem is that blocking their lunge does not stop that confirmed combo.

3. Due to #2 they are cancer in they outnumber you. 1v2 is a losing case vs many disablers, yes but it takes time and you get the chance to fight back, not vs Centurion, he simply disables you for a big portion of fight.

In 1v1 I can deal with him. Stay away from walls, since every wall is a ledge for him; put some distance and wait for dodge. If they turtle move on to somewhere else since if they parry you their combo starts and you will be grounded and lose half hp. Still beatable, but absolutely not balanced.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-18-2017, 06:38 AM
I think you mistake balance for beatable.

Noone claimed they were unbeatable, just because they are beatable does not make them balanced. Simple example any champion in LoL with over %51 winrate over diamond tier is tagged for nerf/rework review by developers.

Centurion just gets way too much for accomplishing an initiation, heck even for failing to do so. Once people get the grasp of it a good portion of old rooster will become obsolete where people only stick to for emotional reasons not practical ones.

We will just have to agree to disagree then.

I just don't see the issues that you do.

Mia.Nora
05-18-2017, 06:45 AM
We will just have to agree to disagree then.

I just don't see the issues that you do.

You seriously dont see those as issues?????


For clarity here are the things that make them OP:

1. GB near wall chains into a (probably unforeseen by devs) full HP > kill combo by charged heavy > jab > repeat combo where you lose control of your character for full duration of it.

2. His lunge/kick attacks track much better than similar skills; problem is that if it connects what they get out of it in return is way above what any other character can in terms of confirmed damage AND disabling same time. Real problem is that blocking their lunge does not stop that confirmed combo.

3. Due to #2 they are cancer in they outnumber you. 1v2 is a losing case vs many disablers, yes but it takes time and you get the chance to fight back, not vs Centurion, he simply disables you for a big portion of fight.

In 1v1 I can deal with him. Stay away from walls, since every wall is a ledge for him; put some distance and wait for dodge. If they turtle move on to somewhere else since if they parry you their combo starts and you will be grounded and lose half hp. Still beatable, but absolutely not balanced.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-18-2017, 06:50 AM
You seriously dont see those as issues?????

No I see them.


I just don't have a problem with them. They are the ultimate answer for the Turtle Meta. 100% full blown Offense at the cost of everything else.


I am 100% okay with that.

Bjron_Ironside
05-18-2017, 06:52 AM
You seriously dont see those as issues?????

I don't either. Centurions are easy to beat. Fighting two or more centurions at the same time is the same damn thing as fighting 2 or more head butting warlords and shield bashing conqueror and pole bashing law bringer Why is centurion any different?

CoyoteXStarrk
05-18-2017, 06:55 AM
I don't either. Centurions are easy to beat. Fighting two or more centurions at the same time is the same damn thing as fighting 2 or more head butting warlords and shield bashing conqueror and pole bashing law bringer Why is centurion any different?

No see you don't understand


ITS DIFFERENT (I have no idea what the difference is either lol)

CAR0.
05-18-2017, 06:58 AM
Well, I think cent is doing gods work. Hes been put in the game to deal with the turtle meta and guess what? he is doing exactly just that. Just because you can't turtle up against a cent doesn't make him op? I agree maybe hes gaurenteed power jab after unblockable heavy is overkill but the rest of his kit seems pretty legit.

CaptainPwnet
05-18-2017, 07:42 AM
Well, I think cent is doing gods work. Hes been put in the game to deal with the turtle meta and guess what? he is doing exactly just that. Just because you can't turtle up against a cent doesn't make him op? I agree maybe hes gaurenteed power jab after unblockable heavy is overkill but the rest of his kit seems pretty legit.

Actually he doesnt do that a t all. 1v1 nothing has changed, once people are used to him and shinobi it will be back to normal. But in teams he doesn't just crack the turtle meta, he completely removes any chance for people to defend themselves in 2v1 situations.

SnugglesIV
05-18-2017, 08:04 AM
I'm pretty sure they are thinking of restricting characters to one per team so Centurion stacking won't be a thing. When it comes to a Centurion gank, you need to treat him like Shugoki. Lock on to him and only switch targets if you are quickly attacking someone else and immediately switching back to the Centurion. Keep tabs on him and don't let him get a fully charged heavy on you. That's how they get you.

bmason1000
05-18-2017, 12:27 PM
I'm pretty sure they are thinking of restricting characters to one per team...
I haven't heard this at all. Did i miss something? For the record, not that my opinion matters but its the internet so I'll give it up anyway, I'm opposed to this.

Antonioj26
05-18-2017, 12:34 PM
No its just I am not a child who thinks just because something beat me makes it OP.

I learn from the mistakes that got me killed and get better.

Unless it's valk

CoyoteXStarrk
05-18-2017, 12:39 PM
Unless it's valk

You sir are funny lol and I admire that you are so salty and hateful towards me that you take any chance to try and hate me. That means I have gotten underneath your skin and I love doing that :)


But as I have now stated multiple times since you kids don't seem to understand my point I will say it slower and more simple for you special folks to understand.


The Valkyrie on her own is not OP.


He ability to spam knockdowns is.


Overall her kit is 100% okay in my book other than that fact.




Was that slow enough for you Anton or do you need me to make the words smaller and spell them incorrectly? :)

CaptainPwnet
05-18-2017, 12:42 PM
You sir are funny lol and I admire that you are so salty and hateful towards me that you take any chance to try and hate me. That means I have gotten underneath your skin and I love doing that :)


But as I have now stated multiple times since you kids don't seem to understand my point I will say it slower and more simple for you special folks to understand.


The Valkyrie on her own is not OP.


He ability to spam knockdowns is.


Overall her kit is 100% okay in my book other than that fact.




Was that slow enough for you Anton or do you need me to make the words smaller and spell them incorrectly? :)

Oh so then you agree centurion is OP for the very same reasons? Or are you gonna go the hypocrite route? Pretty funny you are completely ok with centurion doing the very thing you think is OP on valk even though Centurion is much worse for it and an overall better and more rounded character inother respects lol.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-18-2017, 12:45 PM
Oh so then you agree centurion is OP for the very same reasons? Or are you gonna go the hypocrite route? Pretty funny you are completely ok with centurion doing the very thing you think is OP on valk even though Centurion is much worse for it lol.

No you are misunderstanding my point. You are lacking context regarding my original point about the Valkyrie.


The Centurian can spam Knockdowns, but they can be avoided and they can be stopped.


In certain situations however the Valkyrie can use Heavy into Bash into sweep over and over and over and there is nothing you can do besides die or wait for her to run out of stamina.

Thats not even mentioning the other ways the Valkyrie has a leg up on the Centurian in terms of their kits so there is a clear difference between the two.



Though I do applaud you desperately trying to latch onto any point you THINK I made in order to prove your own. Nice try.


:)

Hillbill79
05-18-2017, 12:45 PM
I'm pretty sure they are thinking of restricting characters to one per team so Centurion stacking won't be a thing. When it comes to a Centurion gank, you need to treat him like Shugoki. Lock on to him and only switch targets if you are quickly attacking someone else and immediately switching back to the Centurion. Keep tabs on him and don't let him get a fully charged heavy on you. That's how they get you.

Cant see them doing that. It means people wont be able to play their main half of the time, and you wont know that until you're in the lobby. If character selection came first with the matchmaker, then its doable.. but not while players are selected before characters.

I'd be a bit pissed off if I couldn't play the guys I wanted to play.

Brawl is bad enough for that.

Antonioj26
05-18-2017, 12:54 PM
You sir are funny lol and I admire that you are so salty and hateful towards me that you take any chance to try and hate me. That means I have gotten underneath your skin and I love doing that :)


But as I have now stated multiple times since you kids don't seem to understand my point I will say it slower and more simple for you special folks to understand.


The Valkyrie on her own is not OP.


He ability to spam knockdowns is.


Overall her kit is 100% okay in my book other than that fact.




Was that slow enough for you Anton or do you need me to make the words smaller and spell them incorrectly? :)

Salty because I point out your hypocrisy? She can't spam knockdown if you have decent reads even if you have grandma reactions. You just arent very good honestly.

Antonioj26
05-18-2017, 12:55 PM
Oh so then you agree centurion is OP for the very same reasons? Or are you gonna go the hypocrite route? Pretty funny you are completely ok with centurion doing the very thing you think is OP on valk even though Centurion is much worse for it and an overall better and more rounded character inother respects lol.

This dudes a dumbie who think has an infinite when he just has crappy reactions.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-18-2017, 12:56 PM
Just to cut off anyone that wants to make a point and to save you some time. I gotta get ready for work so I won't be able to respond for awhile. So if you want an actual response to the points I have made PM me otherwise I will most likely miss your response. I don't go backwards and look at all threads I comment on. I only look at the ones that are currently active. So if the thread dies I may never see your response.


Feel free to PM me.


You guys have an awesome Thursday :D

guffffff
05-18-2017, 01:01 PM
Facing a new opponent is difficult until you get used to what they can do. I just sat there with jaw dropped thinking my controller wasnt working when facing the new characters, its like "what the hell is he doing now? Hes flying?? What the hell is that rope thing???", just takes time and practice. The new characters are really cool gotta be said, not payin for them though would rather wait

Antonioj26
05-18-2017, 01:02 PM
No you are misunderstanding my point. You are lacking context regarding my original point about the Valkyrie.


The Centurian can spam Knockdowns, but they can be avoided and they can be stopped.


In certain situations however the Valkyrie can use Heavy into Bash into sweep over and over and over and there is nothing you can do besides die or wait for her to run out of stamina.

Thats not even mentioning the other ways the Valkyrie has a leg up on the Centurian in terms of their kits so there is a clear difference between the two.



Though I do applaud you desperately trying to latch onto any point you THINK I made in order to prove your own. Nice try.


:)

lol valk is such trash dude. Honestly she's incredibly easy to punish and her low damage makes trading blows an easy win. There's nothing valk has on centurion except range. His lights are just as fast and his heavies are even faster than hers. His unblockables have confirms while only valks sweep is the only unblockable with a confirmed heavy after it. Her damage out put is trash, and she gives a free gb on blocked dash attacks. Shes without a doubt the most punishable character in the game. If you dodge any of her unblockables you are going to get a free gb.

CaptainPwnet
05-18-2017, 01:05 PM
No you are misunderstanding my point. You are lacking context regarding my original point about the Valkyrie.


The Centurian can spam Knockdowns, but they can be avoided and they can be stopped.


In certain situations however the Valkyrie can use Heavy into Bash into sweep over and over and over and there is nothing you can do besides die or wait for her to run out of stamina.

Thats not even mentioning the other ways the Valkyrie has a leg up on the Centurian in terms of their kits so there is a clear difference between the two.



Though I do applaud you desperately trying to latch onto any point you THINK I made in order to prove your own. Nice try.


:)

Umm are you kidding? How stupid do you want to make yourself look here? Valk sweep is 100% dodgeable all the time, it also knocks down allies. Centurion knockdown does not do that and knocks down for a MUCH greater duration. The heavy plunge the centurion gets is 2 times the damage of the valks heavy and the knockdown+plunge cc is long enough that allies can get 2 heavies off before they get up. With valk sweep it's very likely that NO allies will even get to attack because they were knocked down as well.

Again centurion is not OP in 1v1 and I have rarely even seen anyone complain about him in 1v1 though his GB/wall stagger punish is completely risiculous. His kit by itself in 11v1 isn't too overbearing. But in team fights it is a complete joke. He takes away all ability to defend yourself while ensuring death to any character as long as he has one ally ready to dbl heavy off the knockdown.

Not to mention valk has no easy access to unblockables. To get to that sweep she has to do 2 inputs before hand making it even more telegraphed. Centurion meanwhile has a 600 ms kick that only requires a forward dash to access and it stuns and guarantees a heavy and whatever else from allies then they can knock you down for free as you get staggered by the free hit your ally got off the centurion kick. Or he just has to attack, as long as he isnt parried, off block or hit he can chain into knockdown. Again on his own yes his stuff is just as avoidable as any othjer character. But in teamfights it pretty much isn't and the punish for allowing the centurion to only so much as touch you in any way (blocked or landed attack, or kick) and it's lights out in any outnumbered situation. You can no longer defend yourself after that and you may as well put the controller down.

Go ahead and say this is no different than other characters spamming bashes on you in outnumbered situations. But it isn't the same, otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it here.

Antonioj26
05-18-2017, 01:13 PM
Umm are you kidding? How stupid do you want to make yourself look here? Valk sweep is 100% dodgeable all the time, it also knocks down allies. Centurion knockdown does not do that and knocks down for a MUCH greater duration. The heavy plunge the centurion gets is 2 times the damage of the valks heavy and the knockdown+plunge cc is long enough that allies can get 2 heavies off before they get up. With valk sweep it's very likely that NO allies will even get to attack because they were knocked down as well.

Again centurion is not OP in 1v1 and I have rarely even seen anyone complain about him in 1v1 though his GB/wall stagger punish is completely risiculous. His kit by itself in 11v1 isn't too overbearing. But in team fights it is a complete joke. He takes away all ability to defend yourself while ensuring death to any character as long as he has one ally ready to dbl heavy off the knockdown.

No point in telling him its dodgeable. He won't listen even if you show evidence that shows it very much dodgeable and not an infinite like he claims. I made a video proving it and he just closed his eyes and covered his ears while yelling about Him and his bad friends doing some "tests" or whatever and they came back with the conclusion that it's an infinite. Bad players are bad.

Morpheus256
05-18-2017, 01:30 PM
Shinobi and Centurion are BOTH very strong in team fights. Centurion has lots of unblockables that you can easily dodge in a 1v1 scenario but as soon as you're outnumbered things get way worse.

Same goes for Shinobi. In a 1v1 you can manage him but if you are busy with one of his allies and he does his ranged GBs to harrass you you'll eat a lot of damage.

In team based modes you should stick with at least one of your teammates. Especially when there are multiple Cents or Shinobis around.

Dizzy4213
05-18-2017, 01:53 PM
Same goes for Shinobi. In a 1v1 you can manage him but if you are busy with one of his allies and he does his ranged GBs to harrass you you'll eat a lot of damage.

Gonna have to disagree with you on this. On paper, what you said is true, but it doesn't translate into the game very well. The ranged attacks often hit my own teammates in the back, interrupting them, as does the ranged GB. I've also never been able to pull someone out of a group because it always gets interrupted by other players, and if the opponent is attacking your teammates, the ranged GB still isn't all that useful. Since you can't GB during their attack animation.

Lyskir
05-18-2017, 01:55 PM
The Centurian and The Shinobi will not be receiving any major balance changes anytime soon. They will wait for people to get used to the classes and learn to counter them before they do anything.



You people seriously need to calm down and breathe

agree with u again, man i like ur opinions :)

Morpheus256
05-18-2017, 02:33 PM
Gonna have to disagree with you on this. On paper, what you said is true, but it doesn't translate into the game very well. The ranged attacks often hit my own teammates in the back, interrupting them, as does the ranged GB. I've also never been able to pull someone out of a group because it always gets interrupted by other players, and if the opponent is attacking your teammates, the ranged GB still isn't all that useful. Since you can't GB during their attack animation.

I agree, in a XvX fight his ranged GBs are not that useful if people get in your way.

I think OP was mainly complaining about how getting ganked by multiple Centurions is pretty much impossible to win. That implies a 2v1 situation in which both, Centurion and Shinobi, perform very well.

If you position yourself behind the opponent (easy to do with help of the stealth feat) you can safely do your ranged GBs and kicks.

Duuklah
05-18-2017, 08:03 PM
Guess I'm nuts then lol


I have no issues beating them regularly.

You are the only idiot i see on here defending the Centurion in every post. Just how much money and silver did you invest into this OP toon??

You are very dishonest man.

ImmortalBeaver
05-18-2017, 08:27 PM
I think Centurion and Shinobi are broken, but I don't mean that in an OP sense. I mean I think they literally don't work as they should. Neither does anything to counter the defensive meta - far from it. They are both so capable of punishing for insane amounts of damage that it encourages turtling. Make a mistake, they ANNIHILATE you. They make a mistake? Their relatively low health means that you can pick them apart. Shinobi's sickle rain takes some practice on the timing, sure, but dang is it nasty. Furthermore, Centurion's moves don't adhere to pre-existing in-game rules. Sweeps, for instance, get the Valk knocked down if you hit someone as they're revenging. The Centurion Kick goes through Revenge. He has moves that break hyper armor (a zerker buddy of mine confirmed this earlier - I don't remember the exact move, I think he said it was one of the pinning stabs?).

But then, according to Praise the Sun, a youtuber/streamer, the Centurion's ground stab can be punished by the person getting stabbed. IE, you can stand up and get a free GB after getting hit from that knockdown plunging stabby thing. It's insanity. His moveset and kit make zero sense. Don't even get me started on his tracking. For Honor has serious issues with tracking as it is, but usually on specific moves and specific dodge timings. Some of it is probably just the horrible connection problems at work. But Centurion just tracks like crazy. You can't get away from him, and not in a "Wow, that player was good and stayed on top of me" sort of way, but in an aimbotting sort of way.

I have fewer notable issues with Shinboi. His kick should probably be punishable and not capable of chaining into lights on miss (I believe that's how it works, correct me if I'm wrong), but if ranged stuff is supposed to be his jam, then he needs something to let him get those through. Some sort of ranged mixup or something. Otherwise, his up-close kit needs to be reworked to allow him to do more than light spam. Same for PK. They just need to play differently. In any case, Centurion definitely just seems... broken. Badly polished, designed, and implemented. I don't know if either character will see significant nerfs, but I do think they'll see significant reworks in the coming weeks. Much of the cast needs reworks badly, for that matter. We're a few months in and it still feels like an Early Access game.