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xECS DESTROYER
05-17-2017, 04:18 PM
I have gotten the chance to play a bit with Centurion and Shinobi, receiving a lot of complaints along the way. While they are not nearly as overpowered as people say, there are only a couple things I would change.

For Centurion, the kick is tough to dodge, so I do not believe it should be able to chain on miss. Also, the stamina draining moves are fine, but the fact that it delays your stamina regen for a good 1.5-2 seconds (if my calculations are correct) is a bit much. This makes any class that is not an assassin almost useless since that kick is almost impossible to dodge on react.

For Shinobi, I have no real issue besides the kick being near unpunishable. You cannot dodge and punish it unless you are a raider/assassin, and if you try to do that he can heavy off of missing. Also, the slide he has reminds me of another Shugoki 50-50 because it is also unpunishable on dodge unless you are an assassin/raider. Otherwise, I love the glass-cannon build that he/she is.

Basically, I understand Ubisoft wanted to help break the turtle meta but safe unblockable moves are not the answer in my opinion, since it is basically pre-patch Warlord and Shugoki.

Everyone else feel free to chime in!

CandleInTheDark
05-17-2017, 04:22 PM
Shinobi officially gets more hate than peacekeeper ever did at the moment I think. I am used to hatemail oneliners using peacekeeper, I provoked a two message meltdown from a warden something along the lines of I am a fast spamming cliff pushing naruto wannabe (which given I didn't push him off any cliffs, I find hilarious and I tend not to spam). Haven't played centurion any, I love that the shinobi is a glass cannon, there is reward for me attacking but goodness I better pick my battles and mind my surroundings, a single heavy into a fire put me from full to critical. The only thing I found maybe a little op was my charged heavy heavy chain followed up with the forward roll heavy and a complete triple stab took someone from full to critical and I still had plenty of stamina to spare to escape. But that first charged heavy is very punishable.

Hillbill79
05-17-2017, 04:27 PM
Dodge backwards to avoid Cents kick. Seen many people do it easily while I was playing my Cent.

Herbstlicht
05-17-2017, 04:40 PM
Centurion is making heaving impact, specially on team matches. Maybe the most impactful character right now. Great CC, great damage, have 2 on you and it is game over. I can't and won't talk about 1on1 balance though, classes are too now still.

Anyway, Shinobi feels more balanced. He has this glaring weakness of being ultra low hp. Though he might become the in theory strongest duel char in the game, I think you need to be rather good with him. A few punishes and everything is over.

CandleInTheDark
05-17-2017, 04:42 PM
Centurion is making heaving impact, specially on team matches. Maybe the most impactful character right now. Great CC, great damage, have 2 on you and it is game over. I can't and won't talk about 1on1 balance though, classes are too now still.

Anyway, Shinobi feels more balanced. He has this glaring weakness of being ultra low hp. Though he might become the in theory strongest duel char in the game, I think you need to be rather good with him. A few punishes and everything is over.

My experience with duels with shinobi is that either they are cagey which plays into the shinobi's favour because they can initiate or one way or the other they end very quickly. Shinobi is the ultimate glass cannon, very tough if they get going but also very punishable..

XxHunterHxX
05-17-2017, 04:45 PM
Centurion is good vs fast caracters and shinobi is good vs slow caracters thats pretty much it....as it is they dont need to nerf anything....with the shinobi if you ghet parried once you dead....you got 90 hp so 2 havy raiders atack and your dead...i got 1 shoted by a law bringer 1 havy from the top with revenge and i was DEAD so shinobi is **** in 2 v 1 he is OK in 1 v 1 ....but if they nerf hem even 1% then he is useles....and centurion is ok as it is he is the type that if your hits work on noobs and you kill them ez but people with brain will stay away and only use fakes to take hem down since he is slow as **** not to mention his light atacks ir ****...3 light atacks do 1 hp bar LOL

Vordred
05-17-2017, 04:54 PM
yeah the cent's kick is a pain to dodge. i don't like that it stuns either. you spend most of your time stunned well he throws out unblockables at you.

and thats my main grip, he has way to many unblockable moves, and they are slow telegraphed ones that are easy to dodge either. combining that with all the stuns. it makes him incredibly unfun to play against.

and they pretty much ruin domination. as if you get two of them on you, it's time to put down the pad and watch.
the game should be fun and enjoyable, fighting cent's really isn't.

my only real gripe with the Shinobi, is, the double dodging teleport nonsense + kick. oh and the slide too.

the game is devolving into CC and unblockable spam.

kweassa1917
05-17-2017, 04:54 PM
Shinobi officially gets more hate than peacekeeper ever did at the moment I think. I am used to hatemail oneliners using peacekeeper, I provoked a two message meltdown from a warden something along the lines of I am a fast spamming cliff pushing naruto wannabe (which given I didn't push him off any cliffs, I find hilarious). Haven't played centurion any, I love that the shinobi is a glass cannon, there is reward for me attacking but goodness I better pick my battles and mind my surroundings, a single heavy into a fire put me from full to critical. The only thing I found maybe a little op was my charged heavy heavy chain followed up with the forward roll heavy and a complete triple stab took someone from full to critical and I still had plenty of stamina to spare to escape. But that first charged heavy is very punishable.

To be reasonable, I kind of see how the Shib might be abused a la the "Rungoki." The "ninja dash" is a bit unfamiliarly fast for a FH character. Aside from that, as I've once commented about the PK, being any kind of real help to the team with the Shib's gonna be even tougher than the PK, because honestly, the way I've seen people use them... useless. Probably spend 75% of the time running around and doing nothing, eyeballing people. In most cases I've been in Shibs are basically a liability to the team. Assassins are very hard classes to play to matter -- and now, in the order of Shibs join the ranks of "useless" with the hordes of mass-produced "****"rochis.


Centurions are mostly manageable, but the problem is with "slow" classes -- those with slow attacks or slow/short dodge. I've thoroughly experimented with the Shug vs. a Cent and the "Sparta!" kick is, I'm sorry to say, unpunishable with these type of classes. Dodge window is much smaller than others, and since classes like these don't have a side-dodge attack, can't hut anything. GB time's off, too. Overall, compared to the general effectiveness of the combinations of UBs, the stamina useage way too low. If I tried that amount of non-stop attacks with any other class without high-end stamina gear, I'd be running out of stamina in maybe 4 moves.

CandleInTheDark
05-17-2017, 05:00 PM
To be reasonable, I kind of see how the Shib might be abused a la the "Rungoki." The "ninja dash" is a bit unfamiliarly fast for a FH character. Aside from that, as I've once commented about the PK, being any kind of real help to the team with the Shib's gonna be even tougher than the PK, because honestly, the way I've seen people use them... useless. Probably spend 75% of the time running around and doing nothing, eyeballing people. In most cases I've been in Shibs are basically a liability to the team. Assassins are very hard classes to play to matter -- and now, in the order of Shibs join the ranks of "useless" with the hordes of mass-produced "****"rochis.

Yeah this was after a duel, in fairness the one with the full to critical chain, though he ignores the fact it went 3-2 because when he did get close it was all over very quickly. In dominion,I am sort of finding my way there, I have had dominions I have been wrecked, I have had some where I topped the kill rankings through pulling people off my teammates, like I said before I could 1v3 with my peacekeeper (haven't tried with new defence but I have gold gear so I will have to try for comparison), I doubt I could even begin to start that with shinobi right now, as I said he is very much a glass cannon so probably best used to kick opponents out of chains on your allies and try to get into the sickle rain situation.

Supercool5150
05-17-2017, 05:03 PM
I like them both. However, some of the move sets on centurion feel like the Valk's sets with just a shorter weapon. Shinobi plays a little like the PK. Either way, both will be hated at first. They are both beatable with weaknesses. I know people hating on the Shinobi, but hit him twice and he crumbles. The Centurion has surprisingly short range but can be powerful when used correctly.

kweassa1917
05-17-2017, 05:07 PM
Centurion is good vs fast caracters and shinobi is good vs slow caracters thats pretty much it....as it is they dont need to nerf anything....with the shinobi if you ghet parried once you dead....you got 90 hp so 2 havy raiders atack and your dead...i got 1 shoted by a law bringer 1 havy from the top with revenge and i was DEAD so shinobi is **** in 2 v 1 he is OK in 1 v 1 ....but if they nerf hem even 1% then he is useles....and centurion is ok as it is he is the type that if your hits work on noobs and you kill them ez but people with brain will stay away and only use fakes to take hem down since he is slow as **** not to mention his light atacks ir ****...3 light atacks do 1 hp bar LOL

Actually, Cent is better against slower classes without dodge-attack moves. They seem better against nimble ones because it's still "opening night" phase of the game, and with their combos and heavy damage attacks being unfamiliar to many the "faster" classes tend to die quicker. Sort of an illusion.
'
For "slow" classes,. darn it all.. they don't have anything to punish, and the Centurion attacks don't stop...:D

Knight_Raime
05-17-2017, 05:08 PM
I have gotten the chance to play a bit with Centurion and Shinobi, receiving a lot of complaints along the way. While they are not nearly as overpowered as people say, there are only a couple things I would change.

For Centurion, the kick is tough to dodge, so I do not believe it should be able to chain on miss. Also, the stamina draining moves are fine, but the fact that it delays your stamina regen for a good 1.5-2 seconds (if my calculations are correct) is a bit much. This makes any class that is not an assassin almost useless since that kick is almost impossible to dodge on react.

For Shinobi, I have no real issue besides the kick being near unpunishable. You cannot dodge and punish it unless you are a raider/assassin, and if you try to do that he can heavy off of missing. Also, the slide he has reminds me of another Shugoki 50-50 because it is also unpunishable on dodge unless you are an assassin/raider. Otherwise, I love the glass-cannon build that he/she is.

Basically, I understand Ubisoft wanted to help break the turtle meta but safe unblockable moves are not the answer in my opinion, since it is basically pre-patch Warlord and Shugoki.

Everyone else feel free to chime in!


The kick is dodgable on reaction. I did it all the time last night on my cent. and had plenty of people do it to me. i'm on console.
Yes the shinobi kick is nearly impossible to punish. but it's still possible. and it's fairly easy to dodge if they are doing it from range.

Are you referring to the tackle move shinobi has? Because you can dodge and hit someone with that as well. The timings are tighter for all 3 of these things. and imo that's a good thing. it's going to force a lot to play more actively and get better at the game as a whole.

dekot11
05-17-2017, 05:12 PM
I find Centurion's kick to be very telegraphed and easily dodged. And his health is really low too, lower than all the assassins apart from the ninja.

But his jumping stab is messed up. You have to parry or block or dodge backwards. If you want to dodge it to the side you have to do it way earlier than normal, as he's leaving the ground. It's not a timing thing, they just made it much harder to side dodge than other similar moves. I have no idea why they would make dodging on this move so vastly different from the other jumping/lunging attacks in the game. It's not hard to parry or block but still, it's completely unnecessary and adds to the perception that the character is broken.

A couple of his other moves have much tighter windows on side dodging as well. And his light attacks are very fast. I play on console and I would say it's in the vicinity of valkyrie and pk. And his wall 100-0 spam is ******** and most likely an oversight and will be the first thing to be fixed.

I realize this is a normal business practice for Ubisoft, to release new OP characters and eventually nerf them but they really outdid themselves with the centurion.

At least the ninja is balanced. He has his kick and that's pretty much it. Everything else is very high risk. With that said, he's not fun to fight and I don't ever see that changing. Ironically the centurion is very fun to fight but it really feels like he has way too many tools.

tldr; devs hate samurais. if you're a kensei main, give it up and start learning cenutrion, or any other top tier from the western factions.

xECS DESTROYER
05-17-2017, 06:12 PM
The could is reactable on dodge with characters that have better dashes. However, with slower characters the tracking will catch you most of the time. I definitely need more time with it, but that was my impressions. I just do not think the stamina draining moves on Cent should keep your stam from regenerating for several seconds because that makes you dead if out of stamina, unless you have an assassin who can dash away fast enough lol.

I do love the feel of both characters, I just think a tweak will be incoming sooner rather than later since this season's success is imperative for this game's community to stick around.

PS: I just want better servers for a ranked mode that only allows single hero picks. Too much to ask? lol

Duuklah
05-17-2017, 08:05 PM
They intentionally released OP toons to reward Seasons Pass holders and punish regular players. That alone is enough to give me fits of rage.

In 4v4 Centurion basically ruins the game. In 1v1 I find their chains to be stupidly strong.

It feels as if the cent and the shin are from For Honor 2 and all the rest of the toons are from an old defunct game.


I played vs lvl 3 bots of both til i got very strong win % before venturing into PvP... HAH WHAT A JOKE...... I played VS one cent who hit me with a 120 dmg punish for being GB by a wall on my Raider.. WHAT IN THE ACTUAL ****!?

Dizzy4213
05-17-2017, 08:07 PM
Shinobi is trash tier. He's nothing but a gimmick in his current state.

Lowest HP in the game, deals little damage, eats through stamina, easily punished, and has the worst blocking capability in the game. His guard decay is ****ing insane making blocking extremely difficult. 1v1 is hard enough, but a 2v2 is a guaranteed death sentence for him. His ranged attack and GB get punished hard and are simply not worth using against a competent opponent. Moreover, you usually end up hitting your teammate in the back or grabbing them instead.

His most powerful combo, Sickle Rain, will never land on a decent player. It's not even guaranteed of off a ranged GB. Shinobi is all risk and no reward. A lot of players thought he would be a glass cannon but he's not. He's all glass and no cannon. As far as Shinobi is concerned, I think he needs a buff.

Centurion on the other hand, is a complete monster! If there are 2 or more of them on the enemy team, it's pretty much a guaranteed win.

Krell80
05-17-2017, 08:35 PM
and has the worst blocking capability in the game. His guard decay is ****ing insane making blocking extremely difficult.
Yeah it's difficult to block with him,is it a bug?

CandleInTheDark
05-17-2017, 08:46 PM
If you are standing in range that you need to be blocking with the shinobi then it is on you, there is a reason they tell you on the character screen that he is mobile. In my own experience you can 1v1 flawlessly in duel, at least right now as people have not gotten used to him and I would bet he is still strong as people do get used to him, in dominion, you really should be sniping, I have been wrecked because I have let myself be surrounded, I have also finished 11-2. You have the capability to put people to critical in a single chain, but you can wind up there just as quick, you have to pick your moments and choose your battles.

RaptorPetingZoo
05-17-2017, 08:57 PM
All im going to say is

Shugoki charged heavy (Maxed damage gearset) + Shunobi = One shot

Only issues is getting close enough to hit them <3

CandleInTheDark
05-17-2017, 08:58 PM
All im going to say is

Shugoki charged heavy (Maxed damage gearset) + Shunobi = One shot

Only issues is getting close enough to hit them <3

Yeah I try to stay the hell away from shugoki.

RatedChaotic
05-17-2017, 09:09 PM
I have gotten the chance to play a bit with Centurion and Shinobi, receiving a lot of complaints along the way. While they are not nearly as overpowered as people say, there are only a couple things I would change.

For Centurion, the kick is tough to dodge, so I do not believe it should be able to chain on miss. Also, the stamina draining moves are fine, but the fact that it delays your stamina regen for a good 1.5-2 seconds (if my calculations are correct) is a bit much. This makes any class that is not an assassin almost useless since that kick is almost impossible to dodge on react.

For Shinobi, I have no real issue besides the kick being near unpunishable. You cannot dodge and punish it unless you are a raider/assassin, and if you try to do that he can heavy off of missing. Also, the slide he has reminds me of another Shugoki 50-50 because it is also unpunishable on dodge unless you are an assassin/raider. Otherwise, I love the glass-cannon build that he/she is.

Basically, I understand Ubisoft wanted to help break the turtle meta but safe unblockable moves are not the answer in my opinion, since it is basically pre-patch Warlord and Shugoki.

Everyone else feel free to chime in!

Did you see True Talent spamming that kick and get punished for it? I did quite a few times. Your first sentence has evidence against it. I stopped reading there. It may be tough now............but give it time......geez these opinions come way too early. IMO lol

xECS DESTROYER
05-17-2017, 09:15 PM
I did not see it. However, you are not saying which character he was going against, or if he only did that and did not mix in guard breaks, etc. Those factors would all play into dodge effectiveness.

Dizzy4213
05-17-2017, 09:23 PM
So after reaching Rep 2 with him, it's fair to say, that in his current state, Shinobi is trash tier. I want to keep this nice and short, so hopefully I don't go off into a long rant.

Cons:

Lowest HP of any hero
Extremely fast decaying block (I hope this is a bug)
Gets punished heavily for almost anything he does
Deals little damage
Doesn't have much stamina (there's a band-aid fix for this in the form a feat)
Slow heavy attacks (Centurion has faster heavies than him like wtf)
Double dodge is useless


Pros:

Fast lights
Super Sprint


This hero tilts me so much, I've given up trying to level him against other players. Shinobi is all risk and no reward. Fighting a 1v1 feels like a chore, and a 1v2 is pretty much a death sentence for him. 1v4 is impossible. You definitely won't be seeing any Anti-Gank compilations with him, that's for sure.

From what Roman said, they wanted the Shinobi to be an "in/out" hero. Yet he fails at doing just that, as he gets severely punished for trying to play like that. After a back-flip you can only do a ranged attack or GB, both of which are easily countered. So much so, that they're not worth using against any competent opponent. In 4v4 it's not much better. Sure you can get a funny ledge kill every now and then, but more often than not, you end up hitting your teammate in the back, or grabbing them instead. If you happen to land a ranged GB on your opponent, you're not rewarded with anything. The heavy attack after it can be blocked so you can't use the Sickle Rain combo, and good luck ever landing it from neutral. Again, going back to my first statement about how he's all risk and no reward.

Shinobi feels extremely gimmicky to say the least. His overall concept was good, but poorly executed in my opinion. This is best displayed in his ability to double dodge. Seems great on paper, but in game, it's so risky to use. I just don't understand what the devs were going for here. Double dodge eats your stamina unlike a regular dodge and for what? You get nothing in return most of the time. What irritates me the most about this ability is that you can be GB during the double dodge. Since Shinobi can only attack/kick after a double dodge, this basically gives the enemy twice the amount of time they would normally have to GB any other hero when they're dodging.

Myself and many other players thought the Shinobi would be a glass cannon. Having played him extensively since the start of Season 2, I can safely say, he's all glass and no cannon. By all means, if you feel like I'm missing anything in regards to the Shinobi, please comment below so we can discuss it. It's a shame he's so awful, as this is the first assassin I have ever ranked up. Centurion on the other hand, seems to be an absolute monster compared to the Shinobi.

CandleInTheDark
05-17-2017, 09:26 PM
Deals little damage


Dude...I can't even...

I have several times had flawless rounds in duel, one of these I put a warden into critical state with a single chain. Honestly, a single chain. Yes you have to be situationally aware and you have to be mobile you shouldn't be blocking more than you are dodgeing, but no, no he is not trash tier and yes he is very much a cannon to go with that glass.

xECS DESTROYER
05-17-2017, 09:35 PM
I was just curious how everyone felt with the new characters. Obviously, it is only a day in the second season. I just like getting discussions early on what other people think lol.

CandleInTheDark
05-17-2017, 09:37 PM
I was just curious how everyone felt with the new characters. Obviously, it is only a day in the second season. I just like getting discussions early on what other people think lol.

I haven't spent any time on the centurion but my initial thought on the shinobi is he can do a lot of damage, he can also be punished hard for trying to. He has incredible variety on his mixups which keep the opponent guessing and he punishes turtle play brutally. Is he overpowered? Underpowered? I don't know, my initial thought is he can be monstrous in the hands of a decent player who has learned his kit, Roman wasn't fibbing when he said you really have to learn it and that he is a more technical character.

CandleInTheDark
05-17-2017, 09:51 PM
So after reaching Rep 2 with him, it's fair to say, that in his current state, Shinobi is trash tier. I want to keep this nice and short, so hopefully I don't go off into a long rant.

Cons:

Lowest HP of any hero
Extremely fast decaying block (I hope this is a bug)
Gets punished heavily for almost anything he does
Deals little damage
Doesn't have much stamina (there's a band-aid fix for this in the form a feat)
Slow heavy attacks (Centurion has faster heavies than him like wtf)
Double dodge is useless


Pros:

Fast lights
Super Sprint


This hero tilts me so much, I've given up trying to level him against other players. Shinobi is all risk and no reward. Fighting a 1v1 feels like a chore, and a 1v2 is pretty much a death sentence for him. 1v4 is impossible. You definitely won't be seeing any Anti-Gank compilations with him, that's for sure.

From what Roman said, they wanted the Shinobi to be an "in/out" hero. Yet he fails at doing just that, as he gets severely punished for trying to play like that. After a back-flip you can only do a ranged attack or GB, both of which are easily countered. So much so, that they're not worth using against any competent opponent. In 4v4 it's not much better. Sure you can get a funny ledge kill every now and then, but more often than not, you end up hitting your teammate in the back, or grabbing them instead. If you happen to land a ranged GB on your opponent, you're not rewarded with anything. The heavy attack after it can be blocked so you can't use the Sickle Rain combo, and good luck ever landing it from neutral. Again, going back to my first statement about how he's all risk and no reward.

Shinobi feels extremely gimmicky to say the least. His overall concept was good, but poorly executed in my opinion. This is best displayed in his ability to double dodge. Seems great on paper, but in game, it's so risky to use. I just don't understand what the devs were going for here. Double dodge eats your stamina unlike a regular dodge and for what? You get nothing in return most of the time. What irritates me the most about this ability is that you can be GB during the double dodge. Since Shinobi can only attack/kick after a double dodge, this basically gives the enemy twice the amount of time they would normally have to GB any other hero when they're dodging.

Myself and many other players thought the Shinobi would be a glass cannon. Having played him extensively since the start of Season 2, I can safely say, he's all glass and no cannon. By all means, if you feel like I'm missing anything in regards to the Shinobi, please comment below so we can discuss it. It's a shame he's so awful, as this is the first assassin I have ever ranked up. Centurion on the other hand, seems to be an absolute monster compared to the Shinobi.

Going to go into this more than I did in my last post since I admit that was not very constructive. Some of this I think may be a difference in experience with assassin characters. You say this is the only one you have ranked up, I have seven rep points in assassins, six of them in peacekeeper one of them in berserker and honestly he feels on a level with them. One thing that is important to note is I do not do the peacekeeper light spam, I work dodge attacks, so similarly to his kick, I have a lot of hours having had to pick my moments. I also very rarely have stamina issues because I generally play fast characters and I sort of have a sense for when I need to disengage to get a breather, I usually wind up on the last dreg of green, that again is perhaps an experience thing.

I have had passable success with the guardbreak and charged heavy, if I am parried though or suffer a cgb, I go purely with the double dodge game, that is something that takes practice to pull off effectively as you can't spam it without being punished which is all well and fair. As for damage, like I say, I have done 100-5 in one go, charged heavy with the heavy followup, crushing forward roll off of the second heavy, sickle rain.

If you are 1v3, you are likely getting wrecked, I haven't yet learned how to handle that, but I could easily enough with the peacekeeper, I will either learn or I will disengage, generally I don't block though, I deflect where I can, I dodge, again that has been my general playstyle from the beginning though so it might come easier to me, so I rarely worry about the block. I actually like that he has a low health pool, it makes me think a lot more about picking my moments and picking my battles, and when you rotate all of his mixup abilities, going with attacks off of the double dodge rather than the kick or charging your heavy to keep them wary only to cancel it with a dodge, you have a lot to keep the opponent guessing. You really do need to play to what it says on the screen in character select, he is mobile, and he needs to be, you go toe to toe with someone, you lose every time, he is a counter attacker, when the opponent isn't being passive, you need to read your opponent and punish him for being overly aggressive in trying to chase you down, range is your friend and you can do a lot of damage from it, close range for too long on their terms, not yours, is a heavy punish, cornered is deflect or death.

Dizzy4213
05-17-2017, 10:02 PM
Dude...I can't even...

I have several times had flawless rounds in duel, one of these I put a warden into critical state with a single chain. Honestly, a single chain. Yes you have to be situationally aware and you have to be mobile you shouldn't be blocking more than you are dodgeing, but no, no he is not trash tier and yes he is very much a cannon to go with that glass.

Your point is? So you went flawless on a noob, good for you.

I don't see how you put a Warden into a critical state with a single chain unless you had some sort of attack buff, or he had no defence. I don't have the exact numbers for it, but from what I can tell, his Sickle Rain (most damaging combo) deals about 70 or so damage. Not enough to put Warden into critical.

That is if you can even land Sickle Rain in the first place, because the heavy attacks are so slow and will easily be blocked or parried by any decent player. Going into Sickle Rain from a ranged GB can also be easily blocked or parried. As for Shadow Dancer, his first light deals 15 damage and the second seems to deal 8 or so damage. So yes, Shinobi doesn't deal a lot of damage. Roman even said so during the last dev stream, that Shinobi does not deal a lot of damage. That you're supposed to constantly harass your opponent, slowly chipping away at them.

CandleInTheDark
05-17-2017, 10:03 PM
Your point is? So you went flawless on a noob, good for you.

I don't see how you put a Warden into a critical state with a single chain unless you had some sort of attack buff, or he had no defence. I don't have the exact numbers for it, but from what I can tell, his Sickle Rain (most damaging combo) deals about 70 or so damage. Not enough to put Warden into critical.

That is if you can even land Sickle Rain in the first place, because the heavy attacks are so slow and will easily be blocked or parried by any decent player. Going into Sickle Rain from a ranged GB can also be easily blocked or parried. As for Shadow Dancer, his first light deals 15 damage and the second seems to deal 8 or so damage. So yes, Shinobi doesn't deal a lot of damage. Roman even said so during the last dev stream, that Shinobi does not deal a lot of damage. That you're supposed to constantly harass your opponent, slowly chipping away at them.

Rep 2 warden in duel so hardly a newbie, and yes a single chain, in duel with no gear stats. Spider silk whip to crushing forward roll to sickle rain.

Dizzy4213
05-17-2017, 10:07 PM
Rep 2 warden in duel so hardly a newbie, and yes a single chain, in duel with no gear stats. Spider silk whip to crushing forward roll to sickle rain.

Okay, that seems more reasonable, but my point still stands. You won't land a Sickle Rain against a competent opponent that can block and parry.

CandleInTheDark
05-17-2017, 10:10 PM
Okay, that seems more reasonable, but my point still stands. You won't land a Sickle Rain against a competent opponent that can block and parry.

Yeah I actually felt guilty first time I saw that, until he sent a two message rage hatemail that must have taken five minutes to write on xbox unless he has a keyboard. If your charged attacks aren't landing, that is where you go with the double dodge game which does take a little longer and does involve more risk of being caught and that is where I say it is maybe an experience thing, I rarely miss my kicks and once they expect those you throw in lights and heavies off the double dodge, but then you have to pick your moments with the peacekeeper dodge attacks also, so it might be that it is more to my general playstyle, as I said above, I have seven rep in assassins, six of those in peacekeeper, I have been playing the way I feel is effective for shinobi since February.

Dizzy4213
05-17-2017, 10:22 PM
Yeah I actually felt guilty first time I saw that, until he sent a two message rage hatemail that must have taken five minutes to write on xbox unless he has a keyboard. If your charged attacks aren't landing, that is where you go with the kick game which does take a little longer and does involve more risk of being caught and that is where I say it is maybe an experience thing, I rarely miss my kicks, but then you have to pick your moments with the peacekeeper dodge attacks also, so it might be that it is more to my general playstyle.

I have to disagree with you on the experience thing. Ultimately, I think it comes down to how good your opponent is.

I'm interested to know how you feel about being GB during double dodge, and how it basically gives the enemy twice as much time to GB you than a regular dodge. His blocking capability is horrendous (which I hope is a bug) but so is his manoeuvrability thanks to the double dodge. I find it to be more of a hindrance than anything else for the simple fact that you have to double dodge before you can kick/attack. Which as I said before, gives the opponent twice as much time to GB you.

CandleInTheDark
05-17-2017, 10:29 PM
I have to disagree with you on the experience thing. Ultimately, I think it comes down to how good your opponent is.

I'm interested to know how you feel about being GB during double dodge, and how it basically gives the enemy twice as much time to GB you than a regular dodge. His blocking capability is horrendous (which I hope is a bug) but so is his manoeuvrability thanks to the double dodge. I find it to be more of a hindrance than anything else for the simple fact that you have to double dodge before you can kick/attack. Which as I said before, gives the opponent twice as much time to GB you.

I haven't actually been cgb'd off the kick so maybe it is a thing where that might happen more as people get used to facing him. If I have missed a kick it has been more through me throwing it when I shouldn't have rather than them doing anything about it except for the occasional time it was interrupted with a light attack in the disappear phase, which is why I have said elsewhere it is too soon to tell one way or the other. I regularly mix in lights and heavies off of the double dodge or sometimes do nothing off of it and dodge from their next attack, I see that as the shinobi's way of feinting,so if cgb became a problem, I would attack instead. As for the fact you need two dodges, I try to make sure my first isn't in their guardbreak range.

--edit--

Oh, I think I misread your post all together, you mean the fact you have to dodge twice. If you are in their range with the first dodge, yes, they get two bites at it. I have to work hard at it, but my first aim is to make sure I am not in their range, raider will probably be a bad matchup for me because of this with their dodge to guardbreak. If I have been closed down, I roll backwards same as I would with any other assassin, if I am double dodging, my first dodge is never within their guardbreak range, you really do need to judge the range well for that which is why I was saying it leads into my general playstyle, if I miss a dodge attack with my peacekeeper because the range was wrong, I am open.

Duuklah
05-17-2017, 10:38 PM
Once the cent stab is in you eat like 90 dmg total from one landed attack. ****ing ********.

I learned from fighting lvl 3 bots that once that stab lands you cant do ANYTHING. charged uppercut knockdown pounce... profit..

UbiNoty
05-18-2017, 12:00 AM
Really enjoyed browsing the discussion on this thread as you all have really brought up a lot of interesting points for us to think about :D Gonna forward it to the devs.

Oupyz
05-18-2017, 12:41 AM
king richard confirmed shunobi op , that kick none-sense 400ms is so broken and llol no recovery time , slow classes can't dodge it only assasins might have a chance to dodge it

as for Cent he is a little op in 1v1 , he might need few tweaks

but shunobi is beyond broken with that kick , they need to tweak it asap

CandleInTheDark
05-18-2017, 12:48 AM
king richard confirmed shunobi op , that kick none-sense 400ms is so broken and llol no recovery time , slow classes can't dodge it only assasins might have a chance to dodge it

as for Cent he is a little op in 1v1 , he might need few tweaks

but shunobi is beyond broken with that kick , they need to tweak it asap

They have to dodge twice, the first dodge is the time you should be reacting to since if they are dodging towards you, they cannot attack off a single dodge. So if you're reacting only to them disappearing, you've already burned half of your time. If you didn't read the first dodge, they can still be stabbed out of it. So given there are two means of dealing with it, it is a learn to play issue, which you can't judge the capability to after such a short time.