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Tobias96716
05-16-2017, 03:55 AM
Ok....seeing the Shinobi in action helped me to make up my mind...I will no life the hell out of Shinobi to master it...yes Centurian looks fun...but I feel as if Many people will choose Shinobi but leave it since it will be hard to master....couple that with the low health pool I say about 3 to 4 days before people leave they hero behind....

But not me...I will stick with it and master all there is to master...I will see all of you on the ps4 battlefield tomorrow....

CandleInTheDark
05-16-2017, 04:05 AM
Yeah I will be giving it a good go, seems interesting.

Egotistic_Ez
05-16-2017, 04:06 AM
He looks like my ideal character, but he also looks like someone who'll be hard countered by the meta. I expect free shinobi kills everywhere.

Knight_Raime
05-16-2017, 04:16 AM
He looks like my ideal character, but he also looks like someone who'll be hard countered by the meta. I expect free shinobi kills everywhere.

Care to explain? His deflect gets him out of corners while inflicting bleed, he's got the best mix up potential in the game, he can land his super hard hitting combo without having to confirm the first heavy in the string (via whiffing it or getting a ranged GB,) and a majority of his kit doesn't need confirm hits. can be done off of blocked or whiffed. His move set loops on itself and into itself in a handful of ways.

The only thing that out right sucks about him aside from his health pool is his neutral ranged being weak in 1v1. Blocking won't stop him. and since he can light light from any direction and whiff but still continue parries won't out right stop him either.

Shinobi ignores the meta. Centurion breaks it.

Tobias96716
05-16-2017, 04:31 AM
Shinobi is going to be very devastating to those who can master it....and a liability to those who cant....so many mix ups and ways to get into many different combos....ranged attacks and ranged gb's....this is going to be a very fun season.

Darkeater.Midir
05-16-2017, 04:44 AM
Pretty sure he's going to be hard countered by any 'parry god'. Who knows, though. We can only speculate until tomorrow. :)

Egotistic_Ez
05-16-2017, 04:45 AM
Care to explain? His deflect gets him out of corners while inflicting bleed, he's got the best mix up potential in the game, he can land his super hard hitting combo without having to confirm the first heavy in the string (via whiffing it or getting a ranged GB,) and a majority of his kit doesn't need confirm hits. can be done off of blocked or whiffed. His move set loops on itself and into itself in a handful of ways.

The only thing that out right sucks about him aside from his health pool is his neutral ranged being weak in 1v1. Blocking won't stop him. and since he can light light from any direction and whiff but still continue parries won't out right stop him either.

Shinobi ignores the meta. Centurion breaks it.

It's the weakest deflect in the game in duels, but has some potential in 4v4 depending how the follow up works when deflecting a non-locked target. Not sure why you care about getting out of a corner since the dodge does that by default but whatever.

He has good mix-ups from kick, a move you can only do as a follow up from an attack (so standard defence meta) or from a dodge (so still counter-able).

Players who rely solely on blocking will hate the shinobi, but all it takes is a bit of dodging and turtle meta beats ninja.

Knight_Raime
05-16-2017, 04:52 AM
It's the weakest deflect in the game in duels, but has some potential in 4v4 depending how the follow up works when deflecting a non-locked target. Not sure why you care about getting out of a corner since the dodge does that by default but whatever.

He has good mix-ups from kick, a move you can only do as a follow up from an attack (so standard defence meta) or from a dodge (so still counter-able).

Players who rely solely on blocking will hate the shinobi, but all it takes is a bit of dodging and turtle meta beats ninja.


Weakest how? Zerker has the most damage sure. PK doesn't get much but bleed which shinobi's also gets. and orochi's is all over the place.
If you can simply double roll out you're not in a corner.
I didn't see a single kick dodged in the footage we had. and it had quite a follow distance.
Forcing the opponent to dodge is forcing them to react. which is exactly how you get out of the turtle meta.

Nothing you said counters the fact that his mix ups loop into and onto themselves and a majority of them can be done off of whiffs and blocks. You also don't understand "turtle." A turtle is someone who doesn't parry. Someone who majorily blocks. and throws out only safe attacks. I don't see how that particular play counters shinobi in the slightest.

Egotistic_Ez
05-16-2017, 05:03 AM
Weakest how? Zerker has the most damage sure. PK doesn't get much but bleed which shinobi's also gets. and orochi's is all over the place.
If you can simply double roll out you're not in a corner.
I didn't see a single kick dodged in the footage we had. and it had quite a follow distance.
Forcing the opponent to dodge is forcing them to react. which is exactly how you get out of the turtle meta.

Nothing you said counters the fact that his mix ups loop into and onto themselves and a majority of them can be done off of whiffs and blocks. You also don't understand "turtle." A turtle is someone who doesn't parry. Someone who majorily blocks. and throws out only safe attacks. I don't see how that particular play counters shinobi in the slightest.

Admittedly I forgot about the PK, I purge everything about her from my mind. Second weakest deflect.

And you're dodging sideways to deflect, that moves you out of the corner even if you don't land said deflect. No one mentioned rolling.

Also, the amount of kicks dodged when no one has fought the guy before in no way suggests that it can't be dodged.

And turtle meta reacts ALL THE TIME. What did you think a parry was? And yes, turtles parry. Warlord turtles maybe not, but turtling is simply playing 100% defensive, parry and cgb included.

I did tell you why the mix-up was countered, you just missed it or didn't understand it. The kick needs to follow something, either a dodge or an attack. Attacks are countered by the turtle meta, dodge kicks will require the turtle to add "press dodge" to their repertoire. If dodge attacks always come from the same side (as is the case with all current dodge attacks) it's not even a mix up really since you always dodge the same direction.

Knight_Raime
05-16-2017, 05:19 AM
Admittedly I forgot about the PK, I purge everything about her from my mind. Second weakest deflect.

And you're dodging sideways to deflect, that moves you out of the corner even if you don't land said deflect. No one mentioned rolling.

Also, the amount of kicks dodged when no one has fought the guy before in no way suggests that it can't be dodged.

And turtle meta reacts ALL THE TIME. What did you think a parry was? And yes, turtles parry. Warlord turtles maybe not, but turtling is simply playing 100% defensive, parry and cgb included.

I did tell you why the mix-up was countered, you just missed it or didn't understand it. The kick needs to follow something, either a dodge or an attack. Attacks are countered by the turtle meta, dodge kicks will require the turtle to add "press dodge" to their repertoire. If dodge attacks always come from the same side (as is the case with all current dodge attacks) it's not even a mix up really since you always dodge the same direction.


Perhaps I should be a bit more specific about the corner. I mean you're pressed to the corner. and the opponent's character model is big enough that a dodge doesn't take you out of the corner. This doesn't happen all the time. But it is more prevelant in my experiences when you deal with heros that push you back a lot. Like goki, raider, and LB. Even if we forgo this though the ability to shift your position to behind them can be extremely helpful for wall splats and spike kills.

True enough. Just saying I saw both back dodges and side dodges still being kicked. the only kicks I didn't see land were the ones where you are rolling forward for the up kick instead of the kick out of a side dodge. I'm sure it can be dodged. But that doesn't mean the guy can't continue attacking. But i'll resend this for now until I get another look at his move list.

I don't consider a turtle someone who parries. At least no where near often enough to depending on it happening.

I misunderstood due to wording. Attacking isn't blatently countered because the attacks don't need to land. and combos can still go through if blocked.

That stuff aside shinobi can light light from any direction. and they are pretty fast. Which means shinobi at the very least has the opening potential of peace keeper. And if he can get his lights in he can get combos going. some of which change his distance. which can force the turtle to fudge up and be punished further with more mix ups.

I feel like shinobi will start in mid tier because of how difficult he's going to be to learn and his neutral range being weak. But I feel like he has the potential to be top tier as soon as good players get enough time with him.

Egotistic_Ez
05-16-2017, 05:40 AM
Yeah the double light from any angle will be nice. The one thing I want to see is what happens at max range. Roman said that if you're close enough the knockdown from being parried will pull you in range of free damage. Does that mean max range won't? Flipping back a couple of times for a max range no risk engage sounds very potent. Or at least, not risky. lol

Knight_Raime
05-16-2017, 05:43 AM
Yeah the double light from any angle will be nice. The one thing I want to see is what happens at max range. Roman said that if you're close enough the knockdown from being parried will pull you in range of free damage. Does that mean max range won't? Flipping back a couple of times for a max range no risk engage sounds very potent. Or at least, not risky. lol

Really? I understood what he said as saying that distance will determine wether or not you can actually get damage done to you if they parry/GB the ranged stuff. From the footage it seemed like if you were far enough away you can't be hit by most lights in time. but if you were too close you'd get hit most of the time.