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View Full Version : How to open Warden and when it will be balanced???



WFL_M4sT3R_
05-13-2017, 08:56 AM
Hello,

What i found out is that Warden is almost impossible to open, that character have insane block abilities, and 90+% any kind of light or heavy attacks are blocked. Eventually i always get killed by constant spam shoulder bash and zone attack thats very fast and hard to block. The most annoying thing about Warden is that no matter how fast you try to hit and from what direction he will always block the attack and many times he will parry, going for GB is useless, so its like enigma, and only way to fight is to let him attack try to parry and hope for some counter. Amount of health is insane its like hitting the stone. I think this character need to be reworked in some way, because its really annoying to play against. I am sure that charts and statistic pointing out at same direction and looking forward for some changes.

Thank you!

Eike.Kusch
05-13-2017, 09:43 AM
I hate this class. Just fought against one as a lawbringer and it's broken:
-warden does shoulder bash then double light: can't block it (is that normal or is it because the lawbringer switches stance too slowly? anyway it shouldn't be a guaranteed double light after shoulder bash right?)
-warden does another shoulder bash, I dodge, go immediatly for a guard break, warden counters guard break : so I try punish his risky move but I can't? I ask him about that and he says it's not a guaranteed guard break for any class, just some of them? Seriously? How broken is that?
-warden does another shoulder bash, I immediatly go for a top light attack and he blocks it while charging but it interrupts his charge: is it supposed to work like that?

I'm just an average player but still, am I missing something? How to beat a good warden with a lawbringer if you can't punish his attacks?

Egotistic_Ez
05-13-2017, 09:51 AM
Did a whole heap of new people just pick up this game or is it school holidays somewhere or something?

Charmzzz
05-13-2017, 09:54 AM
I hate this class. Just fought against one as a lawbringer and it's broken:
-warden does shoulder bash then double light: can't block it (is that normal or is it because the lawbringer switches stance too slowly? anyway it shouldn't be a guaranteed double light after shoulder bash right?)
-warden does another shoulder bash, I dodge, go immediatly for a guard break, warden counters guard break : so I try punish his risky move but I can't? I ask him about that and he says it's not a guaranteed guard break for any class, just some of them? Seriously? How broken is that?
-warden does another shoulder bash, I immediatly go for a top light attack and he blocks it while charging but it interrupts his charge: is it supposed to work like that?

I'm just an average player but still, am I missing something? How to beat a good warden with a lawbringer if you can't punish his attacks?

- Getting hit by a Shoulder Bash (SB from now on) is a guaranteed Light for the Warden, if he does a side Light it is a guaranteed double Light (that is on every side Light). A full charged SB hit gives the Warden a guaranteed Top Heavy.

- A Guardbreak (GB from now on) gives him a guaranteed side Heavy, if he can throw you in a wall it will be a guaranteed top Heavy because of the stagger.

- I'm not sure about the punish after dodged SB, imo the Warden can always block/counter GB. He is not like Valk who gets punished really hard for every failed bash.

- He could only block your top Light when he feinted the SB charge.

And here are the only real answera to SB: throw a Light if he is close to you, get ready to dodge when he is far away. If he hits you with SB and you are in his Vortex - try to double dodge away (roll). Warden Vortex is still the most annoying move in the game. Every other move is counterable with good timing, but SB still feels like a 50/50 to me most of the times...

kweassa1917
05-13-2017, 09:56 AM
I hate this class. Just fought against one as a lawbringer and it's broken:
-warden does shoulder bash then double light: can't block it (is that normal or is it because the lawbringer switches stance too slowly? anyway it shouldn't be a guaranteed double light after shoulder bash right?)

It's a guaranteed hit.


Honestly, I'd be happy with a fix that deals a heavy stamina loss + short stamina regen block if the Warden cancels the SB.

Remember what they did to the "Rungoki" Oni Charge, which was also a lame 50/50: while the looks are totally different, the base principle/mechanic was EXACTLY the same. According to at which point the "Rungoki" activates the charge, if the charge hits then it's a free heavy. If the charge stops right in front of you, and you tried to dodge the charge, then it's a free GB. The devs didn't like it, so they basically not only destroyed the 50/50 by removing the knock, but also gutted the charge move overall by implementing a heavy stamina-related penalty.

The difference is the "Rungoki" is much more cumbersome to pull off, while WD's vortex is on demand.

If the WD just runs with the SB,, then fine, let him do it. It's a part of the skill set. But if he cancels into GB, heavy stamina drain + stamina regen block = he'll do it once, but never more than twice, since it'll lead to exhaustion.

Eike.Kusch
05-13-2017, 10:06 AM
- Getting hit by a Shoulder Bash (SB from now on) is a guaranteed Light for the Warden, if he does a side Light it is a guaranteed double Light (that is on every side Light). A full charged SB hit gives the Warden a guaranteed Top Heavy.

Been playing since release and never noticed it was guaranteed. Thought you could block any of the following attacks after the SB. Was it changed at some point? So that's why there's so many wardens on the field now compared to release.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-13-2017, 10:25 AM
And here are the only real answera to SB: throw a Light if he is close to you, get ready to dodge when he is far away. If he hits you with SB and you are in his Vortex - try to double dodge away (roll). Warden Vortex is still the most annoying move in the game. Every other move is counterable with good timing, but SB still feels like a 50/50 to me most of the times...

Warden can only initiate shoulder bash after a light or a dodge, this is your punish window, keep your guard top, or if you feel confident in your parrying ability, keep your guard left to block the zone and react to the top light, this will force warden to dodge to initiate shoulder bash, other than light attack you can throw out GB on reaction or on prediction and you're bound to catch Warden in this vulnerability frames.

Also keep a distance of 5ft from the Warden or the maximum distance where you can still hit the warden, at 5ft distance or more, you can safely dodge away from a charging shoulder bash and you'll be out of GB range even if the Warden cancel immediately into GB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzfK7AWOhjU

2:38:38, this is text book counters to Warden's vortex, at high level play, the only use for vortex is for punishing OOS because initiating shoulder bash out of neutral is extremely risky against people who knows how to counter it.

Eike.Kusch
05-13-2017, 10:50 AM
Warden can only initiate shoulder bash after a light or a dodge, this is your punish window, keep your guard top, or if you feel confident in your parrying ability, keep your guard left to block the zone and react to the top light, this will force warden to dodge to initiate shoulder bash, other than light attack you can throw out GB on reaction or on prediction and you're bound to catch Warden in this vulnerability frames.

Also keep a distance of 5ft from the Warden or the maximum distance where you can still hit the warden, at 5ft distance or more, you can safely dodge away from a charging shoulder bash and you'll be out of GB range even if the Warden cancel immediately into GB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzfK7AWOhjU

2:38:38, this is text book counters to Warden's vortex, at high level play, the only use for vortex is for punishing OOS because initiating shoulder bash out of neutral is extremely risky against people who knows how to counter it.

Thanks for these tips and the link. Gonna try to do the same but seems hard. :p

UrWaifuAintReal
05-13-2017, 11:09 AM
Thanks for these tips and the link. Gonna try to do the same but seems hard. :p

Oh and also you have to play a bit quite passively, focus on your spacing and punish because if you get overly aggressive and become OOS, that's when shoulder bash becomes truly dangerous because you cannot cancel it with light attack or roll aways anymore. If you get hit with light attack and have 2/3 or more stamina left, immedietely double dash away, by the time the warden runs up to you your stamina would have been equalized, when the warden runs up to you and if you feel confident, throw out random attack.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-13-2017, 11:15 AM
Its like the Xmas noobs came early this year lol

Eike.Kusch
05-13-2017, 11:26 AM
Its like the Xmas noobs came early this year lol

Looks like condescending *****s is an all year kind of thing...

cragar212
05-13-2017, 11:34 AM
Warden is a very strong character. Definitely top tier. Kind of a wierd spot since kinda weaker then pk warlord but alot stronger then everyone else.

Heres a good example of braindead warden play.

It will probably be a year + before the game achieves any semblance of balance. They nerfed warden slightly but every top warden in the world laughed at the "nerf".

But like I always say at this point play a top tier character if you don't like losing to them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jETgDKRUlgc&t=77s

bananaflow2017
05-13-2017, 11:41 AM
Since 1/3 of my duells are against wardens I'm just annoyed.
4v4 turned into gank fests so I started focusing on duells.
I just meet wardens who never atack just waiting for theire parrys to punish you with a heavy fallowed by vortex.
Really why this is not getting fixed with next patch or am I wrong?
Now we get the centurio and i think he will support a similar playstyle.....
Not that he just punishes my 15 dmg light with a 40 dmg heavy he just opens vortex then. Since i noticed that i cant Take warden Players serious....
Usually i dont throw of ledges etc, but this Turtle vortex Players doesnt deserve anything other

WFL_M4sT3R_
05-13-2017, 01:06 PM
Did a whole heap of new people just pick up this game or is it school holidays somewhere or something?

I guess your main char is Warden, take other char, try to play against Warden and soon you will understand what we are trying to point here, dude i have main char and i like them, but when they get nerfed, i understand and keep going and adapt. Simple like that.
Cheers

Egotistic_Ez
05-13-2017, 01:17 PM
I guess your main char is Warden, take other char, try to play against Warden and soon you will understand what we are trying to point here, dude i have main char and i like them, but when they get nerfed, i understand and keep going and adapt. Simple like that.
Cheers

I main raider actually. In fact I don't think I've played a game as warden since open beta.

But I mean, c'mon;

that character have insane block abilities, and 90+% any kind of light or heavy attacks are blocked
If you'd played even a few minutes of the game you'd realise how ridiculous that statement is.

WFL_M4sT3R_
05-13-2017, 01:20 PM
I main raider actually. In fact I don't think I've played a game as warden since open beta.

But I mean, c'mon;

If you'd played even a few minutes of the game you'd realise how ridiculous that statement is.

Hmmm, it can be that you are one of the super skilled players, and i didn't count that in, still the rest of us who play this game and thats big population have problem with Warden.

bananaflow2017
05-13-2017, 01:58 PM
I main raider actually. In fact I don't think I've played a game as warden since open beta.

But I mean, c'mon;

If you'd played even a few minutes of the game you'd realise how ridiculous that statement is.

Dude he is right. Wardens just wait for there parry and start with vortex....
Oh goes so far they parry my valks second light on xbox. It's just a little practise u need...

cragar212
05-13-2017, 02:11 PM
I main raider actually. In fact I don't think I've played a game as warden since open beta.

But I mean, c'mon;

If you'd played even a few minutes of the game you'd realise how ridiculous that statement is.

Well warden has one of the faster guard speeds in the game so he isn't wrong that they have defesive advantages over alot of classes

Egotistic_Ez
05-13-2017, 02:34 PM
Dude he is right. Wardens just wait for there parry and start with vortex....
Oh goes so far they parry my valks second light on xbox. It's just a little practise u need...


Well warden has one of the faster guard speeds in the game so he isn't wrong that they have defesive advantages over alot of classes

I get it, guard switches aren't normalised, trust me, I main raider, I know, but giving wardens a % chance to block like it's an rpg is not a thing. Most people turtle, most people block most attacks, it's not a warden issue, it's a game issue.

UbiNoty
05-14-2017, 12:29 AM
We'll be introducing various changes soon that we believe should address most of the turtle/defensive meta issues - no specific details yet, but we have openly discussed some of our ideas on the weekly stream.

We're still currently in the midst of intensive testing and we're also still taking feedback from the community!

Hormly
05-14-2017, 12:33 AM
Wardens are the strangest feeling and least fun to fight character in the game IMO.

I have to approach him completely differently and it doesnt even really resemble a fight, its like im trying to exploit a poorly designed boss encounter or something

Fin647
05-14-2017, 06:56 PM
Oh and also you have to play a bit quite passively, focus on your spacing and punish because if you get overly aggressive and become OOS, that's when shoulder bash becomes truly dangerous because you cannot cancel it with light attack or roll aways anymore. If you get hit with light attack and have 2/3 or more stamina left, immedietely double dash away, by the time the warden runs up to you your stamina would have been equalized, when the warden runs up to you and if you feel confident, throw out random attack.

throw out random attack
hahaha
he'll just cancel soulder bash and parry, and you are in the vortex again
https://youtu.be/vTYXBh0l9w0?t=9m39s
how do you counet this?
it is 30\30\30:

gb OR soulder bash (garanteed two lights - 15 + 9 = 24 - so he nearly gets the dmg of a Conqu heavy (25) for a side light) OR sb cancel and parry or another sb

devs need tor get theyre heads out of theyre asses, no woulder it was 145k ppl playing and 4k playing now
there is zero balance in this game atm

UrWaifuAintReal
05-14-2017, 07:25 PM
throw out random attack
hahaha
he'll just cancel soulder bash and parry, and you are in the vortex again
https://youtu.be/vTYXBh0l9w0?t=9m39s
how do you counet this?
it is 30\30\30:

gb OR soulder bash (garanteed two lights - 15 + 9 = 24 - so he nearly gets the dmg of a Conqu heavy (25) for a side light) OR sb cancel and parry or another sb

devs need tor get theyre heads out of theyre asses, no woulder it was 145k ppl playing and 4k playing now
there is zero balance in this game atm

Oh another Tru3talent sheep, go figure.

You counter that by not being predictable and throw out a mixup of random kind of attack, feint and GB?

Warden can no longer cancel SB and parry on reaction anymore,he has to predict it coming and buffer the parry input because that's the only way that he can parry faster attack, and even then he still cannot parry predicted light attack (aka the exact moment when sb starts charging or sooner)

That LB had zero reason to stay that close BTW, he could have stayed further back since his attacks easily outranged Warden.

I ask you, did you even bother to watch the video that I linked?

Actually if you want to actually get good in the game, watch SypherPK, Praise the Sun, Scott Jund or other that actually got somewhere that is not below top 8 in tournies (like Tru3, and he ****ing played PK lmao) then you might actually learn something useful.

Haemmerst0rm
05-14-2017, 07:44 PM
We'll be introducing various changes soon that we believe should address most of the turtle/defensive meta issues - no specific details yet, but we have openly discussed some of our ideas on the weekly stream.

We're still currently in the midst of intensive testing and we're also still taking feedback from the community!

Here is my feedback about warden: Remove guardbreak out of shoulderbash. Its so SO cheesing and unfun!