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View Full Version : Shove, light, grab.



VJWalker85
05-12-2017, 03:54 PM
How do you deal with this? Every now and then I run into an aggressive lawbringer that spans between those 3 moves, they come at you so fast and it's fustraiting. I play a conqueror so the fight usually goes very slow, often we will both get down to critical health but I lose 80% of the time.

Morpheus256
05-12-2017, 04:30 PM
If he does a dash into shove you can just dodge it for a free shield bash. If he does it after a block and you get hit you just look for a red indicator and dodge (preferably) into his attack to deflect it and get a free shield bash.

He won't do much heavies because of the free GB you get when you block them. It's either lights or feints (mostly). Either block or parry.

Grab. Just counter it.

Netcode_err_404
05-12-2017, 05:33 PM
With a conq you should win 80% of the times against LB.

As explained above when they dash < shove is easy AF to dodge and get free shield bashes.

From block is even more easy, because no matter if LB goes for a block > shove > light or a block > shove > gb

If you doidge and start the sheidl bash you will win every single time.

And LB cannot even pounish you when out of stamina because every blocked heavy is a free GB for the conqueror.

Reallly man, conqs cannot lose vs a LB ever. Thats why conq is top tier even nerfed.

Dizzy4213
05-12-2017, 05:48 PM
With a conq you should win 80% of the times against LB.

As explained above when they dash < shove is easy AF to dodge and get free shield bashes.

From block is even more easy, because no matter if LB goes for a block > shove > light or a block > shove > gb

If you doidge and start the sheidl bash you will win every single time.

And LB cannot even pounish you when out of stamina because every blocked heavy is a free GB for the conqueror.

Reallly man, conqs cannot lose vs a LB ever. Thats why conq is top tier even nerfed.

He also doesn't get the Blind Justice off of a light parry against a conqueror.

Netcode_err_404
05-12-2017, 05:55 PM
He also doesn't get the Blind Justice off of a light parry against a conqueror.



Yes, almost forgot it.

Just because Lb is too op plz nerf

Mudflaaaps
05-12-2017, 07:20 PM
So much ignorance here.

First of all, conqueror is NOT top tier. He's now settled down in the middle.

Conqueror does not get a guaranteed GB off a heavy block. That's just knowledge. Conq gets zero free hits.

Fighting lawbringers is the bane of conq, because of the guaranteed hits. Conqs speed just can't negate a lawbringer, who as you said can throw out moves at a frightening pace (dude really is OP as hell)

My tactics go like this as a conqueror;

Dodge the shove first, shoulder bash into light light heavy.
If you fail the dodge, take the shove and dirty free light as you prepare for the follow up. This could be literally anything as lawbringers mix up is insane, but if it's a bad player its usually a heavy, if it's a good player its usually a light or GB. Do NOT dodge after a shove, prepare to block.

Lawbrjngers have no real weakness, as they get a guaranteed hit off EVERY BLOCK. Your only hope is to turtle, spam shoulder bash-light and hope.

Also, try charging the heavy. Get it up to 2, switch sides a few times, you might get a lucky hit.

Also try to utilise the conquerors only dirty mechanic; guard stance feint. Do a heavy, instantly feint with guard stance, shield bash riposte. Might catch a lawbringer off guard.

Netcode_err_404
05-12-2017, 07:24 PM
So much ignorance here.

First of all, conqueror is NOT top tier. He's now settled down in the middle.

Conqueror does not get a guaranteed GB off a heavy block. That's just knowledge. Conq gets zero free hits.

Fighting lawbringers is the bane of conq, because of the guaranteed hits. Conqs speed just can't negate a lawbringer, who as you said can throw out moves at a frightening pace (dude really is OP as hell)

My tactics go like this as a conqueror;

Dodge the shove first, shoulder bash into light light heavy.
If you fail the dodge, take the shove and dirty free light as you prepare for the follow up. This could be literally anything as lawbringers mix up is insane, but if it's a bad player its usually a heavy, if it's a good player its usually a light or GB. Do NOT dodge after a shove, prepare to block.

Lawbrjngers have no real weakness, as they get a guaranteed hit off EVERY BLOCK. Your only hope is to turtle, spam shoulder bash-light and hope.

Also, try charging the heavy. Get it up to 2, switch sides a few times, you might get a lucky hit.

Also try to utilise the conquerors only dirty mechanic; guard stance feint. Do a heavy, instantly feint with guard stance, shield bash riposte. Might catch a lawbringer off guard.

You should really buy the game.

Because you clearly do not own it yet.

I've heard is at strong discount nowadays, check it.

if you take a shove you can dash shield bash, and you will win every single time because that doidge will avoid the light, and shield bash will avoid the GB.




Conq is still top tier sorry.

kweassa1917
05-12-2017, 07:25 PM
So many Lawb apologists... :rolleyes:

If you "counter" it the way they tell you, the odds are you don't have a problem with it in the first place, since you're already on the reflex level that reaction-counters Warden vortex and PK light-spams.


For a more realistical solution, expect to tolerate through the light, and don't give out a GB. You can't react to both in most cases, so allow only the lesser of two evils, and never give out a GB -- just like against the Warden when there's no way to avoid vortex, it's better to give out a SB-light than a GB.

Netcode_err_404
05-12-2017, 07:45 PM
So many Lawb apologists... :rolleyes:

If you "counter" it the way they tell you, the odds are you don't have a problem with it in the first place, since you're already on the reflex level that reaction-counters Warden vortex and PK light-spams.


For a more realistical solution, expect to tolerate through the light, and don't give out a GB. You can't react to both in most cases, so allow only the lesser of two evils, and never give out a GB -- just like against the Warden when there's no way to avoid vortex, it's better to give out a SB-light than a GB.

As soon as you get hited with shove dodge and shild bash. Is not about reflexes, is about timing, do it and you will win wvery single shove attempt. If you are on console well sorry for you.

Its about timing.
Raiders can do the same because they can cgb during a dodge.

Pk is all about reflexes and switch guard speed, so once again your argument is trash.
To counter warden's SB you do not meed reflexes, you just have to guess right because they can insta cancel a sb into a gb without warnings.

kweassa1917
05-12-2017, 08:05 PM
As soon as you get hited with shove dodge and shild bash. Is not about reflexes, is about timing, do it and you will win wvery single shove attempt. If you are on console well sorry for you.

Its about timing.
Raiders can do the same because they can cgb during a dodge.

Pk is all about reflexes and switch guard speed, so once again your argument is trash.
To counter warden's SB you do not meed reflexes, you just have to guess right because they can insta cancel a sb into a gb without warnings.

Cut the crap already, sweet jeebus. Your incessant bias towards one class, and brown-nosing to another is getting tiresome.

If the vortex is a "cancer", as is the "light spam", same with your bullsh* shove-light/shove-GB you're on a crusade to defend, dude.

Shove-light and a Shove-GB is as much a "guesswork" as any other bullshi* 50/50 you flame.

JamaasK
05-12-2017, 08:05 PM
At least on PC, you can dodge when you see the attack indication. It is relatively reactable. I'm sure console players have it bad though.

If you're playing conq, just side dodge bash when he shoves you. You get a free light. Don't throw out random bashes, though, because Lawbringer can consequently counter you with shove.

Netcode_err_404
05-12-2017, 08:07 PM
Cut the crap already, sweet jeebus. Your incessant bias towards one class, and brown-nosing to another is getting tiresome.

If the vortex is a "cancer", as is the "light spam", same with your bullsh* shove-light/shove-GB you're on a crusade to defend, dude.

Shove-light and a Shove-GB is as much a "guesswork" as any other bullshi* 50/50 you flame.

Git gud pleb

Im saying facts, you are just whining and saying ********es.

If ou are a console pleb blame ubitroll for having created a 30 fps capped fighting game do not come here to trash talk.


And in for your information, the real cancer is the guessing game when he charges up the bash, not the vortex, because if you give people a chance to avoid the bash would be ez pz.

kweassa1917
05-12-2017, 08:09 PM
dbl pst

Netcode_err_404
05-12-2017, 08:10 PM
I can say the exact same thing about your PK hating, scrub.

Like said, double standard petty man.

I've modified the comment because you are too stupid

HAve problems with LB ? Use a raider, problem solved light or gb ? Who cares either way you can counter it.

kweassa1917
05-12-2017, 08:10 PM
Git gud pleb

Im saying facts, you are just whining and saying ********es.

If ou are a console blame ubitroll for having created a 30 fps capped fighting game.

I can say the exact same thing about your PK hating, scrub.

Like said, double standard petty man.

At least try to be consistent when spewing trash and spreading propaganda from your "State Lawbringer News". *snort*

Netcode_err_404
05-12-2017, 08:12 PM
At least on PC, you can dodge when you see the attack indication. It is relatively reactable. I'm sure console players have it bad though.

If you're playing conq, just side dodge bash when he shoves you. You get a free light. Don't throw out random bashes, though, because Lawbringer can consequently counter you with shove.

This.

And i've noticed even in this case, as soon as you get hitted with shove, you can istantly dodge and shield bash again.

kweassa1917
05-12-2017, 08:26 PM
I've modified the comment because you are too stupid

HAve problems with LB ? Use a raider, problem solved light or gb ? Who cares either way you can counter it.

Just the same how you counter PK light spams, dope.

The_B0G_
05-12-2017, 08:53 PM
With a conq you should win 80% of the times against LB.

As explained above when they dash < shove is easy AF to dodge and get free shield bashes.

From block is even more easy, because no matter if LB goes for a block > shove > light or a block > shove > gb

If you doidge and start the sheidl bash you will win every single time.

And LB cannot even pounish you when out of stamina because every blocked heavy is a free GB for the conqueror.

Reallly man, conqs cannot lose vs a LB ever. Thats why conq is top tier even nerfed.

Conq winning 80% of the time vs LB? You must be playing some garbage LBs, I main the LB and since the conq nerf and LB buff, I wreck conqs 80% of the time, the other 20% they get me to about 2 bars before I kill them.

1v1 Conqs have no prayer against a decent LB, shield rush is easy for even and LB to dodge, all other attacks are easily parried, lights easily blocked into a shove. Conq needs some serious love from the devs, he's really no threat at all 1v1, he has great defense which makes him hard to kill but it's incredibly easy to defend against him.

VJWalker85
05-12-2017, 09:35 PM
I appreciate all the replies, never thought of dodging during their attacks because they get me so tilted. Like I said I don't get thrashed by lawbringers I just lose so if the dodge into shield bash works it should help me out a lot.

kweassa1917
05-12-2017, 10:43 PM
I appreciate all the replies, never thought of dodging during their attacks because they get me so tilted. Like I said I don't get thrashed by lawbringers I just lose so if the dodge into shield bash works it should help me out a lot.

Listen, my final piece of advice.

The odds are, those Lawb players that tell you to "dodge" it, can't do it themselves, because they never explain to you that in actual combat it's not like dodging same attacks in sequence. The dodge-shove is not a problem, but the block-shove is generally a 50/50 in most cases because;


(a) unless you were expecting to be blocked the block-shove transition is abrupt

(b) the shove-light is unblockable when it comes to your block direction, only blockable when the Lawb changes direction.

(c) the shove-light is faster than the 2nd light of the PK light combo (hits before shove recovery when same stance direction) so generally, people who want to reliably and consistently dodge it anticipate it and dodge -- in which case the shove-GB forms a complete 50/50.

You know why assassins seem to deflect-hit the shove-light so often? (Or why Lawb players insist "assassins deflect it all the time") -- It's because that "deflect" is actually a result of a failed dodge. They weren't going for the deflect. They were trying to dodge and it failed. Anyone whose tried an assassin vs. Lawb experiences this from time to time. They try to react to the attack direction, so they instinctively shift guard, and at the same time attempt a dodge -- they're too late and it gives out an unintentional deflect on the shove-light.

(d) so, if you want (c) shove-light/shove-GB to not entangle you in a 50/50, you can do it simply by bringing up your reflex speeds to that which would reliably block PK light-lights, or distinguish between whether it's a GB-cancel or a few hundred milliseconds longer SB.


I won't say Lawb players are lying, but I will say they are downplaying it a LOT. Like said, when you watch Lawb vs. Lawb duels, more than half the time they themselves can't do what they preach. Most usually the shove-light hits, I'd say around 70% of the time or more, and then they react to the move coming AFTER the shove-light to either defend and back away, or counter.

When someone gives you advice about something, but that someone is involved with the very thing you need advice against, don't trust them easily. It's like asking the Trump administration about how to handle Russia.


(ps) ESPECIALLY, if they display a blatant double standard like bashing Warden vortex and PK light spams, but say there's nothing wrong with shove-light. The only reason people are not as frustrated with it, is like I've said many times, the average expectancy of profit/gains from shove-light spamming is lower than the Warden vortex, and since it requires a block to initiate the spam, you can't spam it straight non-stop like how the Warden does, or like how a PK just swings wildly. Also, after the shove-light hit, the situation after isn't as pressuring and unreasonable as when you're sucked into that vortex.

That's why Lawbs have a limited capacity compared to the two straight-up OPs WD and WL, and that's why people generally just show some measure of TOLERANCE to the shove-light. Not because there's nothing wrong with the initial design.

Netcode_err_404
05-13-2017, 12:29 AM
Conq winning 80% of the time vs LB? You must be playing some garbage LBs, I main the LB and since the conq nerf and LB buff, I wreck conqs 80% of the time, the other 20% they get me to about 2 bars before I kill them.

1v1 Conqs have no prayer against a decent LB, shield rush is easy for even and LB to dodge, all other attacks are easily parried, lights easily blocked into a shove. Conq needs some serious love from the devs, he's really no threat at all 1v1, he has great defense which makes him hard to kill but it's incredibly easy to defend against him.

You must play vs sone ****ty conq.

Passive conqs will wreck you, just sield bash > guaranteed light till the end, no need to charge up heavies. And using your heavies against a decent conq, means free GB