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View Full Version : Fact: Valkyrie was overbuffed.



SendRickPics
05-12-2017, 06:12 AM
So the title pretty much explains the context of this post.

Upon release, the Valkyrie was (too) quickly deemed by the community to be "too weak to function" as a hero. She had endured a nerf or two since the Beta at the time of release.

Within a patch or two, she was buffed, in five different areas iirc. Mostly affecting attack speed, recovery, and ability to utilize knockdowns. What these in the end created was a new "Queen of spam". Who not only had lightning fast, nearly indefensible light attacks, but also several knock down and crowd control options.

Some may say that she is quite able to be countered (probably from experience on PC, as opposed to consoles).



My main argument is this. To those who would say that the Peacekeeper was "rightfully" nerfed, because she was too speedy, or too spammy, yet say nothing in regards to the Valkyrie as the new Queen of Spam, I say you are hypocritical and biased in your approach to the idea of "balance" in this game.

This comes as even more frustrating, seeing as Patch Notes 1.07 read that the PK is getting ANOTHER damage nerf on her main bleed attack. That makes what, 7 or 8 nerfs since Closed Beta?



Conclusion: The Valkyrie has become too strong and too spammy, she must be brought in line with the other heroes.

My.Insanity
05-12-2017, 06:34 AM
and another useless "nerf this" bullsh!t thread...

go play her in duel.. do it.. you will get your *** whiped for sure!

okay she got good speed and a good 50/50 mixup.. but it depends only on mindgames. BUT !!! her dmg is a joke in every way.. you need like 4 - 5 combos to Kill someone not like Nobushi or Berserker who can take half your HP with 1 Top Heavy and "best" of it you can punish her ALL THE F**KING TIME for nearly everything.. expl?

She jumps at you with her overhead light... block it and you get a free GB

She uses her side dash... block it you get a free GB

She uses her sweep.. doge it you get a free GB

She uses her shieldbash.. doge it.. guess what.. YES free GB


you little sh!t should l2p and stop with your "im a total noob in this game but i dont wanna get better i just wanna all other heros getting nerfed so i cry over the forum" sh!t...

Egotistic_Ez
05-12-2017, 06:37 AM
She's in a good place now imo. She has some solid tools but can still be punished. Leave her as is.

Maxime_Qc-
05-12-2017, 06:40 AM
and another useless "nerf this" bullsh!t thread...

go play her in duel.. do it.. you will get your *** whiped for sure!

okay she got good speed and a good 50/50 mixup.. but it depends only on mindgames. BUT !!! her dmg is a joke in every way.. you need like 4 - 5 combos to Kill someone not like Nobushi or Berserker who can take half your HP with 1 Top Heavy and "best" of it you can punish her ALL THE F**KING TIME for nearly everything.. expl?

She jumps at you with her overhead light... block it and you get a free GB

She uses her side dash... block it you get a free GB

She uses her sweep.. doge it you get a free GB

She uses her shieldbash.. doge it.. guess what.. YES free GB


you little sh!t should l2p and stop with your "im a total noob in this game but i dont wanna get better i just wanna all other heros getting nerfed so i cry over the forum" sh!t...



i guess you play valk ! xD

ANYWAY I'M with you Rodhri331 , i saying it since the super speed buffed has been done .. and i was saying it even before the buff that they should have buffed her DAMAGE ...not the speed !

and yeah ANOTHER nerfs for the pk'S really ubisoft ... keep killing her .. i dont give a **** anymore ... you win im never gonna touch pk again after the patch .. gonna main shinobi anyway !!

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 06:45 AM
Her first light is as fast as pks but if you block the second one which is 18 frames then you've stopped her from doing her "50/50". She's got really low damage and she's probably one of the more punishable heroes. Her dash attacks give a free gb on block and same with her sweep if you dodge it. She doesn't get any real safe free damage. Shes kind of a high risk high reward character. She's good but still much lower than warden, warlord, and pk.

SendRickPics
05-12-2017, 06:47 AM
Her first light is as fast as pks but if you block the second one which is 18 frames then you've stopped her from doing her "50/50". She's got really low damage and she's probably one of the more punishable heroes. Her dash attacks give a free gb on block and same with her sweep if you dodge it. She doesn't get any real safe free damage. Shes kind of a high risk high reward character. She's good but still much lower than warden, warlord, and pk.

On Console, it's exceedingly difficult to get the timing down right to block her attacks. Think that statement over again.

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 06:52 AM
Funny I was literally going to write a follow up about this. I do understand that she's much tougher to deal with on consoles. I play on console too but I think most people don't have their setup to be optimal for this game. If you have a wired internet connection, wired controller, set your PS4 to 720p, change your tv display settings to game then you will have a much easier time. The difference is astonishing honestly. I struggled a bit with her before but after doing this I see exactly why PC players have a far easier time with her. If you can defend against her attacks even a little then she becomes absolutely helpless.

cragar212
05-12-2017, 06:56 AM
You play a pk and feel outmatched by valk?

SendRickPics
05-12-2017, 06:58 AM
Funny I was literally going to write a follow up about this. I do understand that she's much tougher to deal with on consoles. I play on console too but I think most people don't have their setup to be optimal for this game. If you have a wired internet connection, wired controller, set your PS4 to 720p, change your tv display settings to game then you will have a much easier time. The difference is astonishing honestly. I struggled a bit with her before but after doing this I see exactly why PC players have a far easier time with her. If you can defend against her attacks even a little then she becomes absolutely helpless.

So you need to have everything set perfectly hardware wise to compensate for bad software. Right. Makes perfect sense. Totally Reasonable. 10/6 would totally hate life again. (That's rude, but whatever).

UrWaifuAintReal
05-12-2017, 07:00 AM
So you need to have everything set perfectly hardware wise to compensate for bad software. Right. Makes perfect sense. .

You mean like US PC gamers? It is a cmmon thing on PC gaming, you want optimal performance, you have to set up optimally.

Stop.whining.

cragar212
05-12-2017, 07:00 AM
Funny I was literally going to write a follow up about this. I do understand that she's much tougher to deal with on consoles. I play on console too but I think most people don't have their setup to be optimal for this game. If you have a wired internet connection, wired controller, set your PS4 to 720p, change your tv display settings to game then you will have a much easier time. The difference is astonishing honestly. I struggled a bit with her before but after doing this I see exactly why PC players have a far easier time with her. If you can defend against her attacks even a little then she becomes absolutely helpless.

Wired vs wireless controller can be up to a 10ms difference depending on brand, not really a big difference but every bit helps.

Tv/monitor can be up to 150ms difference though! People need to realise gaming on a non gaming tv is like playing with dial up.

I also found a fresh new controller helped as well

SendRickPics
05-12-2017, 07:04 AM
You play a pk and feel outmatched by valk?

I'm not a bad PK by any means, I've played PK since Closed Beta when she was first introduced, I've got ages of practice.

But honestly speaking, on console. Kinda yeah. We're 6 or 7 nerfs deep on PK, Valk was buffed 5 times in one patch, and again in later patches I think, unless I miscounted.

If I'm hyped up on caffeine and all my circuits are buzzing, I can dodge through most of her attacks with I-frames, but mostly, she's a pain in the *** to deal with using a PK (or a Warden), or anyone really. Between her all-block + knockdown, a decent grapple *****, and spin knockdown abilities. She's just too much. Even if her damage isn't "amazing" (whatever that means), it doesn't matter, because you're down on the ground so often anyway that you can't even react.


Everyone makes mistakes in battle, however if you make one mistake, you're chained in until you're dead in a large majority of cases. Especially if you don't have extra mobility like the PK.

The PK herself, has no unblockables, and has relatively few abilities to really open anyone up if they become extremely defensive, and she doesn't have too many great tools if she's being backed up against a wall. Ironically, a close quarters, short reach Assassin needs the maximum amount of space to effectively fight, as she will likely die horribly in close quarters and enclosed spaces.



You mean like US PC gamers? It is a cmmon thing on PC gaming, you want optimal performance, you have to set up optimally.

Stop.whining.

*Looks at post history*
*Realizes dude is a belligerent troll*
*Ignores*

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 07:07 AM
So you need to have everything set perfectly hardware wise to compensate for bad software. Right. Makes perfect sense. Totally Reasonable. 10/6 would totally hate life again. (That's rude, but whatever).

Well pk is still a far better character with or without optimizing your setup. I don't quite understand what that last section of your post means. It sounds like you were grading my post but got the numbers backwards. I'm also not quite sure if you were calling yourself rude for giving my post a low score or calling me rude for giving you advice on how to deal with a character who is beneath but still manage to struggle against. So you can either continue to lose or you can change a few simple things to make her cake like other players have.

Berard_Gutler
05-12-2017, 07:10 AM
Another QQ thread, waiting for the next one, i think its PK's turn to get a topic.

SendRickPics
05-12-2017, 07:13 AM
Well pk is still a far better character with or without optimizing your setup. I don't quite understand what that last section of your post means. It sounds like you were grading my post but got the numbers backwards. I'm also not quite sure if you were calling yourself rude for giving my post a low score or calling me rude for giving you advice on how to deal with a character who is beneath but still manage to struggle against. So you can either continue to lose or you can change a few simple things to make her cake like other players have.

The "grading" was made that way intentionally. It's an internet thing, grading in a scale that doesn't make any sense.
I was calling myself rude.

I don't need your advice; your objectivity would be nice.

PK is actually not doing all that great on consoles according to Ubisoft, so her "tier" is almost entirely based upon a false public perception.

Simple fact is, Valkyrie has far more tools than the PK does, if not as much mobility. Is it any wonder that most of the people who were on the PK light spam train have jumped over to Valkyrie?

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 07:19 AM
The "grading" was made that way intentionally. It's an internet thing, grading in a scale that doesn't make any sense.
I was calling myself rude.

I don't need your advice; your objectivity would be nice.

PK is actually not doing all that great on consoles according to Ubisoft, so her "tier" is almost entirely based upon a false public perception.

Simple fact is, Valkyrie has far more tools than the PK does, if not as much mobility. Is it any wonder that most of the people who were on the PK light spam train have jumped over to Valkyrie?

I am being objective though. I don't have any biases against pk. I just think based on her toolkit she's one of the top 3 while Valk sits somewhere between 4 and 6. I'm leaning more towards 6. More does not equate to better, all of the tools she has are unsafe, unsafe is bad in fighting games. When you say pks not doing great who is that compared to? I'm sort of familiar with what you are talking about but from what I understand they said she's doing better on PC than she is on console. You don't have to take my advice but I don't see why you wouldn't. It's not just something that's helpful for valk but all around is better for your gameplay but whatever. That's really just conjecture that people moved from pk to valk, you have nothing to back that up

Butonfly
05-12-2017, 07:21 AM
Valk's Toolkit is fine (relatively speaking since certain mechanics are the core of all issues in For Honor). The problem with Valk is how certain tools are inconsistent mechanically. Particularly with the unblockables- the sweep, both shield bashes, but also her light attacks etc, and how they track. Not to mention the speed of her attacks making vs assassin classes, disabling their ability to dash, and making deflects impossible.

Valk doesn't need to be made weaker. She simply needs all the bugs/glitch/bs cleaned up. A shield bash shouldnt track through a 240 degree turn, for example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjo0nR18B5o

The same can be said of the leg sweep
https://youtu.be/EKxJ76b4rA0?t=14

Valk = broken at the code level.

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 07:24 AM
Valk's Toolkit is fine (relatively speaking since certain mechanics are the core of all issues in For Honor). The problem with Valk is how certain tools are inconsistent mechanically. Particularly with the unblockables- the sweep, both shield bashes, but also her light attacks etc, and how they track. Not to mention the speed of her attacks making vs assassin classes, disabling their ability to dash, and making deflects impossible.

Valk doesn't need to be made weaker. She simply needs all the bugs/glitch/bs cleaned up. A shield bash shouldnt track through a 240 degree turn, for example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjo0nR18B5o

Lol yeah that's definitely happened to me, I think that's more a lag thing than anything. It seems more frequent in 4s. I certainly that's not working as intended.

SendRickPics
05-12-2017, 08:08 AM
Lol yeah that's definitely happened to me, I think that's more a lag thing than anything. It seems more frequent in 4s. I certainly that's not working as intended.

It's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Also you can see quite clearly the player isn't even really capable of blocking or dodging her incoming attacks, let alone her disables.

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 08:10 AM
It's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Also you can see quite clearly the player isn't even really capable of blocking or dodging her incoming attacks, let alone her disables.

I don't get how an inconsistent bug that rarely happens is a point for your corner but okay.

SendRickPics
05-12-2017, 08:11 AM
I don't get how an inconsistent bug that rarely happens is a point for your corner but okay.

Except it doesn't rarely happen, nor is it inconsistent on consoles. At least certainly not in my experience.

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 08:16 AM
Except it doesn't rarely happen, nor is it inconsistent on consoles. At least certainly not in my experience.

Whenever I try out a new character I go to duel practice in the how to play menu and the bot for level 3 is a valk. I could be wrong but I feel This rarely ever happens here so that leads me to believe this a connectivity issue. Honestly just try it for awhile and record your findings. I'll do the same and we can compare. either of us could have confirmation biases but if it's recorded then we won't really be able to sub consciously deny the truth.

My.Insanity
05-12-2017, 08:19 AM
Valk's Toolkit is fine (relatively speaking since certain mechanics are the core of all issues in For Honor). The problem with Valk is how certain tools are inconsistent mechanically. Particularly with the unblockables- the sweep, both shield bashes, but also her light attacks etc, and how they track. Not to mention the speed of her attacks making vs assassin classes, disabling their ability to dash, and making deflects impossible.

Valk doesn't need to be made weaker. She simply needs all the bugs/glitch/bs cleaned up. A shield bash shouldnt track through a 240 degree turn, for example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjo0nR18B5o

https://youtu.be/EKxJ76b4rA0?t=14

Valk = broken at the code level.

like i told you in your other bullsh!t post in the "combat & strategy" (Valk 170 degree turning shield bash) YOUR TIMING SUCK !!! GET GUD NOOB !

Please everyone look at his videos... it doesnt matter if its Valk or Warlord or what ever.. your doge timing is so bad every attack in this game will track you...
The same can be said of the leg sweep

DrinkinMyStella
05-12-2017, 10:58 AM
just because you struggle to beat her does not mean she needs a nerf. Im a valk main and I've been using my rep 5 kensei and rep 1 orochi and have no troubles beating her.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-12-2017, 11:10 AM
I hate to even say this but Rhodri is actually right for once.


The Valkyrie's ability to stumble you then heavy you until she runs out of stamina and you can't do anything about it is pretty BS and her ability to change direction is insane.


She doesn't need to be hacked off at the knees. Just a few minor tweaks will fix her.

DrinkinMyStella
05-12-2017, 11:39 AM
The moment that the sweep comes and takes you down accept the free heavy but straight away as soon as your up dodge backwards to avoid her vortex.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-12-2017, 12:25 PM
The moment that the sweep comes and takes you down accept the free heavy but straight away as soon as your up dodge backwards to avoid her vortex.

This has been debated unto to death in multiple threads and videos have been posted to prove that once you are down her stumble heavy is unavoidable after that.


Try and keep up.

Dizzy4213
05-12-2017, 12:40 PM
Valkyrie is fine in my eyes.

The main issue I have with her is a bug regarding sweep. There's actually a buffer on the guard switch, so if you try to block the second light and fail, you won't be able to dodge the sweep. Yet if you eat the second light, you can dodge the sweep just fine.

Chewbocko
05-12-2017, 12:40 PM
This has been debated unto to death in multiple threads and videos have been posted to prove that once you are down her stumble heavy is unavoidable after that.


Try and keep up.

Odd, I play console and literally am able to roll away everytime just before she repeats her sweep. Could be because I main a Peacekeeper but my second is Conqueror and I don't have issues with the Valk playing either.

The_B0G_
05-12-2017, 12:47 PM
If they would speed up the guard stance change times of the slower heroes pk and valk wouldn't be so OP. I main LB and those two heroes are by far the hardest to deal with, especially because my dodge is trash.

If the valk finishes the sweep combo it is almost impossible to get out of the spam vortex that follows. Pk just has light ZA spam, very hard to guard against a good PK with such slow stance change, you basically have to guess right to get a block.

kweassa1917
05-12-2017, 12:48 PM
Not sure how the Valk was overbuffed when all the troubles and problems concerning the Valk has nothing to do with the buff, and had already been there since the beginning.

I'm just seeing this as a case where people on average finally came up with a solid meta of fighting with the Valk and discovered what kind of cheesy shi* she can really pull off.

Weird_Eagle
05-12-2017, 12:52 PM
Valk is fine. You can punish all mistakes she makes.
Her lights are not as fast as from pk.
I think pk and valk are fine now.
In dominion I see not as much pk most of them rerolled a valk and try to spam lights.
But you can punish her easier.
Play against a level 3 valk bot and learn her move set.
When you kill this bot with ease, you kill 50% off all valks played by players.

NocturnalFox-
05-12-2017, 01:41 PM
I personally don't like any of the viking faction, only playing them to get the trophy.
That said I have invested the most time in Valkyrie and still find it the absolute worst hero.
It dies in about 3 hits against anyone.
Its attacks are too technical.
And for someone with a shield there is not enough emphasize on using it.

It doesn't feel balanced at all and it still feels kind of weak.
Either it should of been a glass cannon or it should of been a tank.
It fails at both.

Sykoink
05-12-2017, 01:59 PM
I also was getting my *** handed to me by Valks and i thought to myself wow Valk is way to strong now...but after reading on how to counter and punish her, i really don't have any more problems against her. Higher level players also easily destroy Valks. The class just seems OP when you don't know what to do against it, once you do you'll realize that there is no need for a nerf at all.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-12-2017, 02:16 PM
Odd, I play console and literally am able to roll away everytime just before she repeats her sweep. Could be because I main a Peacekeeper but my second is Conqueror and I don't have issues with the Valk playing either.

That would be because you have no understanding of the way the combo works.


The moment you are the ground she can simply heavy you + shield bash + sweep and there is literally NOTHING you can do. She only needs to land the sweep ONCE and you are bent over biting the pillow until she runs out of stamina.


That is not okay. No hero should have an infinite combo.

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 02:24 PM
That would be because you have no understanding of the way the combo works.


The moment you are the ground she can simply heavy you + shield bash + sweep and there is literally NOTHING you can do. She only needs to land the sweep ONCE and you are bent over biting the pillow until she runs out of stamina.


That is not okay. No hero should have an infinite combo.

I'm positive this doesn't work. Where is the video you mentioned showing this? I'd like to see it. I've never seen this infinite loop you speak of and I can guarantee if it was a thing people would do it constantly.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-12-2017, 02:45 PM
I'm positive this doesn't work. Where is the video you mentioned showing this? I'd like to see it. I've never seen this infinite loop you speak of and I can guarantee if it was a thing people would do it constantly.

Not even gonna waste my time.


Its a known exploit that has been complained about and mentioned in over half a dozen threads in the last 3 weeks.


And it IS a thing that Valkyrie players do constantly.


All you have to do as a Valkyrie is land the sweep ONCE then spam Heavy + Shield Bash + sweep and repat the process. Nothing can be done against it. Even revenge is hit or miss. If you don't time the revenge properly you are STILL stuck in the loop.



Hence why she is so maligned. If you don't know about this exploit then you have no right to speak about the balancing of the class.


Do your research and then come back for a debate.

Netcode_err_404
05-12-2017, 02:46 PM
I do not think valkyres are overbuffed.

Yes i'd slow a bit her lights because right now are insane fast, but thats pretty much all. Oh yes and i would make her shield charge ( when she remains in a shield charge stance)not infinite.

The problem in this game relies in 4v4 mostly, where stacking up a class is better than having different ones.

A team of 3 valkyres spmming sweeps, basically make you enter the "NO fun zone" because you can literally be chain stunned ad infinitum, and thats why i would have used a resolve system.

Whats a resolve system ? A special bar that fills up after every stun. When filled you are immune to knockdown for 10 seconds. That would fix tha knockdown abuse in 1vX

Netcode_err_404
05-12-2017, 02:47 PM
Not even gonna waste my time.


Its a known exploit that has been complained about and mentioned in over half a dozen threads in the last 3 weeks.


And it IS a thing that Valkyrie players do constantly.



Hence why she is so maligned. If you don't know about this exploit then you have no right to speak about the balancing of the class. Buh bye.

Yes i've heard about it, but I thnk is an exploit.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-12-2017, 02:50 PM
Yes i've heard about it, but I thnk is an exploit.

Exactly.


Which is why it need to be fixed and removed ASAP.


Its her main exploit and her main crutch. Without it 75% of the scrubs who play her would leave the class.

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 03:05 PM
Exactly.

Which is why it need to be fixed and removed ASAP.


Its her main exploit and her main crutch. Without it 75% of the scrubs who play her would leave the class.

Not finding it seriously, just show me a video where this is infinite loop that is 100% unavoidable. What exactly does this exploit entail, if it's just doing those attacks you listed it's still dodgeable.

Pope138
05-12-2017, 03:20 PM
On Console, it's exceedingly difficult to get the timing down right to block her attacks. Think that statement over again.

Xbox player here. Big slow warlord main. I used to be useless against valk but after practicing in custom games she's much less of a challenge.. Low damage and easily punishable. Also, now that I can block her second light, or failing that, dodge her sweep, there is no valk spam. When playing against a valk my opponent learns early on that sweep spam is going to get them killed so of course they stop doing it.

She's balanced pretty well, imo.

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 03:22 PM
Not finding it seriously, just show me a video where this is infinite loop that is 100% unavoidable. What exactly does this exploit entail, if it's just doing those attacks you listed it's still dodgeable.

I literally just tried this on a level 3 zerk bot and it doesn't work so please explain to me how this "exploit" works so I can test it. If need be I'll upload the footage of him dodging either the sweep or the bash

Alustar.
05-12-2017, 04:27 PM
If you are finding it difficult to dodge CC spam you might want to take a break and calm down first. I realized this playing against a Conq, if you are letting your frustrations get to you the chances are you are missing key dodges and blocks by fractions of a second.

Enhance your calm and reassess the situation at hand.

Every death can be traced back to one or two critical flaws in your own playstyle.

Oni-Nikuya
05-12-2017, 04:57 PM
My mental notes on this topic are that when I play a valk, it doesn't feel crazy fast. When I fight one, I miss 20% of blocks even if I am strictly concentrating on blocking, more if I'm trying to sneak in and punish. I am left wondering if the attack indicators are not visible until some point after her attack is initiated, and if that needs to be adjusted.

Netcode_err_404
05-12-2017, 05:23 PM
let me tell you. my fav spammers. are those that spam their unblockables (valk cong lawbringer and the rest) over and over and over again and call it skill... or how about the poeple that know they aren't really good so they jsut link light atks in a different direction... then call it skill cause ya dont know where to ****in block... and remind you these people call it skill.... im not good by any means, but imntot terrible either...

A LB that spam shove usually istantly dies
Same with a sweep spammers with valkyre

Conquerors shield bash is faster by far than valk and LB. and is the only one who I really cannot dodge and punish because they have istant recovery frames.

And her majesty warlords can just cheese all they want because they are pro's

The spam could be fixed with a simple cooldown system, but devs already said they do not want cd's because then the game would be more serious and less cheesy, and thats probably not what they want

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 05:29 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndtljm01FRc

10 attempts 1 that was thwarted by the wall. Not one time did I get back to back sweeps, it very much is dodgeable

bananaflow2017
05-12-2017, 05:53 PM
Mimimi Thread nr. 1818181817
Just learn to dodge Sweep.
Valk got no real Engage Tool. Just turtle her away or git gud

Alustar.
05-12-2017, 07:19 PM
I'm not a bad PK by any means, I've played PK since Closed Beta when she was first introduced, I've got ages of practice.

But honestly speaking, on console. Kinda yeah. We're 6 or 7 nerfs deep on PK, Valk was buffed 5 times in one patch, and again in later patches I think, unless I miscounted.

If I'm hyped up on caffeine and all my circuits are buzzing, I can dodge through most of her attacks with I-frames, but mostly, she's a pain in the *** to deal with using a PK (or a Warden), or anyone really. Between her all-block + knockdown, a decent grapple *****, and spin knockdown abilities. She's just too much. Even if her damage isn't "amazing" (whatever that means), it doesn't matter, because you're down on the ground so often anyway that you can't even react.


Everyone makes mistakes in battle, however if you make one mistake, you're chained in until you're dead in a large majority of cases. Especially if you don't have extra mobility like the PK.

The PK herself, has no unblockables, and has relatively few abilities to really open anyone up if they become extremely defensive, and she doesn't have too many great tools if she's being backed up against a wall. Ironically, a close quarters, short reach Assassin needs the maximum amount of space to effectively fight, as she will likely die horribly in close quarters and enclosed spaces.




*Looks at post history*
*Realizes dude is a belligerent troll*
*Ignores*

A couple things, in a fight with a spear wielder like Valk/Nob/law, is rather be in close quarters confined areas. It means that dodging and grabbing become the main focus. Makes my deflects more devastating and , oddly enough,ote frequent couple that with grab and wall throws and dash bleed chains, you should be on the defensive that whole fight and do damage cause they can't open the gap.

And a peace keeper does have an unblockable, it's the attack after deflect. And it's awesome.

JamaasK
05-12-2017, 08:14 PM
People really need to state what platform they play on because Valk is fairly easy to play against on PC and I'm sure she's hard to play against on console.

At least on PC, her lights can be parried fairly easily, if she chains, her second light much easier to parry, and her sweep is easy to dodge.

Pope138
05-12-2017, 08:53 PM
People really need to state what platform they play on because Valk is fairly easy to play against on PC and I'm sure she's hard to play against on console.

At least on PC, her lights can be parried fairly easily, if she chains, her second light much easier to parry, and her sweep is easy to dodge.

Honestly, this is also my experience on console. I did have a problem with PK light spam though.

bananaflow2017
05-12-2017, 10:54 PM
You also have this turtle wardens parrying your second light on xbox....

UbiJurassic
05-12-2017, 11:56 PM
This is pretty great feedback and advice on Valkyrie, everyone! Though we get a lot of feedback asking for nerfs to her kit, we also tend to have a lot of people disagree with that. It's nice to see players come together to offer strategies in dealing with her. :)

Chewbocko
05-13-2017, 03:17 AM
That would be because you have no understanding of the way the combo works.


The moment you are the ground she can simply heavy you + shield bash + sweep and there is literally NOTHING you can do. She only needs to land the sweep ONCE and you are bent over biting the pillow until she runs out of stamina.


That is not okay. No hero should have an infinite combo.

After seeing this thread I decided to try valk just to see if she was op.

I had people revenge out of the trip and I've had a few Orochis/PK's get up extremely fast and dodge the shoulder bash. Ive literally never an infinite trip combo. Does exhaustion recovery not have a play in this? Maxed recovery= get up and dodge faster?

Antonioj26
05-13-2017, 03:29 AM
After seeing this thread I decided to try valk just to see if she was op.

I had people revenge out of the trip and I've had a few Orochis/PK's get up extremely fast and dodge the shoulder bash. Ive literally never an infinite trip combo. Does exhaustion recovery not have a play in this? Maxed recovery= get up and dodge faster?

There is no infinite loop combo, I did a video testing this with the method coyote gives and in 9 (tried 10 but hit the wall on one of them) attempts the enemy berserker was able to dodge out of the second sweep.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndtljm01FRc

Kaotic_CipherTV
05-13-2017, 03:38 AM
There is no infinite loop combo, I did a video testing this with the method coyote gives and in 9 (tried 10 but hit the wall on one of them) attempts the enemy berserker was able to dodge out of the second sweep.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndtljm01FRc

You cant do the same moves on a lvl 3 bot. I also noticed your full strat for trying to do it wasnt very good. You should also alternate the combo. After a sweep youd want your next combo to start with the jump light so that by the time a character has recovered you are already on the legsweep again.

There are also other things that you need to take into account. Like map/positioning and what character you are facing. Assassins can dodge the sweep after recovering but it has to be immediately after, but some characters cant even do that. I think the LB was one of them, he cant recover fast enough to actually dodge the next one. Ive played her to rep 1 and Ive actually done it to people that want to try and fight cheaply. It makes me feel bad because it is a stupid easy win.

That being said I dont think she needs a "nerf" in its real definition, but a tweak instead. (console) Her lights are just too fast. You can try to switch guards faster than her swing, but its all luck. Her attack comes in faster than most guard switches and the only way to guard is to switch before the attack is done. At that point it becomes a guessing game.

Antonioj26
05-13-2017, 03:43 AM
That wasn't a strat, coyote was claiming that this is all you had to do and it was infinite. This was literally my first 20 minutes of valk and I don't intend on picking her up again except in friendlies to mess around. Shes not my style and She's far from over powered. I'm happy to test this on LB but coyote is a zerk main and he said that he couldn't dodge out of it. The point of the video was to show you can. You can argue it's 50/50ish but it's not an infinite and it's not guaranteed. I can parry her lights, it's tough don't get me wrong but with enough practice you can regularly do it. I just dueled cumbuster4000 from the forums and he was able to parry my lights when we were doing friendlies.

Antonioj26
05-13-2017, 03:53 AM
I'll say this and perhaps I'll get some flak for this but she's a noob stomper. Honestly if you know how to parry or block she's very easy to punish. That's not to say she's low tier by any means but experienced players can deal with the simpler strats that work in novice play. Her lights are telegraphed enough that parries aren't nearly as hard as PK. block her dash attacks and you get a free gb. That's also not to say valk can't be dangerous in the right hands but the complaints thus far in this thread are manageable.

Kaotic_CipherTV
05-13-2017, 04:07 AM
I'll say this and perhaps I'll get some flak for this but she's a noob stomper. Honestly if you know how to parry or block she's very easy to punish. That's not to say she's low tier by any means but experienced players can deal with the simpler strats that work in novice play. Her lights are telegraphed enough that parries aren't nearly as hard as PK. block her dash attacks and you get a free gb. That's also not to say valk can't be dangerous in the right hands but the complaints thus far in this thread are manageable.

Her lights arent easily blocked though (on console) and thats the problem. From my understanding shes easy to fight on PC, but as I said earlier, her second light attack on a different attack direction often comes out faster than a guardswitch.

Someone suggested switching to 720p, changing to game mode (tv), and hardwiring a controller in, but this isnt a real solution. I shouldnt have to go through loop holes just to fight a single character. I would understand it if it was a problem with the game itself not running smoothly, but this is a particular character and not the game itself.

cragar212
05-13-2017, 04:08 AM
One problem with Valk is the input buffering. This results in if attempting to block/parry the 2nd light and fail the sweep becomes unreactable.

Here is a good thread on it. In the video at about 12sec you can clearly see his analog stick is pointing left guard but his guard still switchs to right.

https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/66ggp8/i_think_ive_found_a_broken_mechanic/

Antonioj26
05-13-2017, 04:16 AM
One problem with Valk is the input buffering. This results in if attempting to block/parry the 2nd light and fail the sweep becomes unreactable.

Here is a good thread on it. In the video at about 12sec you can clearly see his analog stick is pointing left guard but his guard still switchs to right.

https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/66ggp8/i_think_ive_found_a_broken_mechanic/

Maybe I'm looking at the wrong video but where does it show the sweep being unreactable? I knew about the input buffering which definitely is an issue but I don't see what being hit with the second light have to do with dodging the sweep?

Kaotic_CipherTV
05-13-2017, 04:24 AM
Maybe I'm looking at the wrong video but where does it show the sweep being unreactable? I knew about the input buffering which definitely is an issue but I don't see what being hit with the second light have to do with dodging the sweep?

Read your previous post and then mine after, thats where it got shifted into being a valk speed problem over all else.

Antonioj26
05-13-2017, 04:29 AM
Read your previous post and then mine after, thats where it got shifted into being a valk speed problem over all else.

Still has nothing to do with the sweep being unreactable and it's still not an infinite loop. I main LB and I've dodged her sweep. If I have to post a video showing it I can. Every character can.

cragar212
05-13-2017, 04:32 AM
Maybe I'm looking at the wrong video but where does it show the sweep being unreactable? I knew about the input buffering which definitely is an issue but I don't see what being hit with the second light have to do with dodging the sweep?

He GBs instead of sweeps. Once you are hit with the 2nd light it becomes a 50/50 if you tried block or parry 2nd light. On slow classes like LB its tough to dodge sweep even if you guess right.

The way around the input buffering is to always just let the 2nd light hit you without moving your stick. This then allows you to react to the valk often giving you a free GB in exchane for eating a light

Antonioj26
05-13-2017, 04:38 AM
Right I know it's a 50/50 but from the way coyote described it he made it sound like as long as she gets one sweep off she can continue to do until she runs out of stamina without any sort of way to defend yourself and that's just not true.


That would be because you have no understanding of the way the combo works.


The moment you are the ground she can simply heavy you + shield bash + sweep and there is literally NOTHING you can do. She only needs to land the sweep ONCE and you are bent over biting the pillow until she runs out of stamina.


That is not okay. No hero should have an infinite combo.

Kaotic_CipherTV
05-13-2017, 05:46 AM
Still has nothing to do with the sweep being unreactable and it's still not an infinite loop. I main LB and I've dodged her sweep. If I have to post a video showing it I can. Every character can.


Right I know it's a 50/50 but from the way coyote described it he made it sound like as long as she gets one sweep off she can continue to do until she runs out of stamina without any sort of way to defend yourself and that's just not true.

Again, the conversation we were having changed to the speed of her attacks being the problem.. I clarified the sweep problem and then gave my opinion on what really makes her stronger than intended. That being the speed of the 2nd light vs guard switch.

Also because of her attack speed she is able to get to sweep easier. So it can be tied to the same problem. Since the attacks are so fast and sweep only takes 2 swings to get to you can keep an enemy pressured or on the ground. The sweep also knocks you back a bit, if you get swept twice in a row its more than likely you are pushed against a wall that you can escape.

My statements and opinions have nothing to do with Coyote, because I am not him.. I am also on console not PC like Coyote so our problems are different. There are plenty of ways to keep an enemy on the ground for an entire fight with the valk and once she gets revenge if you cant get away prepare to die from spam.

Again my problem is not with the sweep itself even though it can be cheap. My only issue is with her attack speed being faster than reaction.

cragar212
05-13-2017, 05:51 AM
Right I know it's a 50/50 but from the way coyote described it he made it sound like as long as she gets one sweep off she can continue to do until she runs out of stamina without any sort of way to defend yourself and that's just not true.

Oh I didn't read the whole thread just the original post and was replying to that.

My point was that 50/50s are strong and are typically carefully controlled by devs. The fact that Valk has an unintended 50/50 do to a poor game mechanic is conidered ridiculous by alot of people who play traditional fighting games.

I primarily play console and don't have an issue with valks so idc.

Ps - Whatever is being said about her having an infinite knockdown chain is definitely wrong

Antonioj26
05-13-2017, 06:10 AM
Again, the conversation we were having changed to the speed of her attacks being the problem.. I clarified the sweep problem and then gave my opinion on what really makes her stronger than intended. That being the speed of the 2nd light vs guard switch.

Also because of her attack speed she is able to get to sweep easier. So it can be tied to the same problem. Since the attacks are so fast and sweep only takes 2 swings to get to you can keep an enemy pressured or on the ground. The sweep also knocks you back a bit, if you get swept twice in a row its more than likely you are pushed against a wall that you can escape.

My statements and opinions have nothing to do with Coyote, because I am not him.. I am also on console not PC like Coyote so our problems are different. There are plenty of ways to keep an enemy on the ground for an entire fight with the valk and once she gets revenge if you cant get away prepare to die from spam. Also we aren't talking about revenge, not really relevant in this conversation.

Again my problem is not with the sweep itself even though it can be cheap. My only issue is with her attack speed being faster than reaction.

Ah my mistake I didn't see the message you responded to where I was talking about getting flak for calling her a noob stomper. I'm on console and so is coyote. It's not a loop hole to optimize your gaming setup. If you don't want to optimize then you can continue to get spammed in the face. It doesn't make sense to nerf a character when she's already easy to deal with because some people Don't have their game at peak performance . Just like For honor PC isn't built around people who have toasters, and it shouldn't be.


Her lights arent easily blocked though (on console) and thats the problem. From my understanding shes easy to fight on PC, but as I said earlier, her second light attack on a different attack direction often comes out faster than a guardswitch.

Someone suggested switching to 720p, changing to game mode (tv), and hardwiring a controller in, but this isnt a real solution. I shouldnt have to go through loop holes just to fight a single character. I would understand it if it was a problem with the game itself not running smoothly, but this is a particular character and not the game itself.

Antonioj26
05-13-2017, 06:19 AM
Oh I didn't read the whole thread just the original post and was replying to that.

My point was that 50/50s are strong and are typically carefully controlled by devs. The fact that Valk has an unintended 50/50 do to a poor game mechanic is conidered ridiculous by alot of people who play traditional fighting games.

I primarily play console and don't have an issue with valks so idc.

Ps - Whatever is being said about her having an infinite knockdown chain is definitely wrong

No worries, dude. I agree it's a fairly strong tool but guessing wrong for her can be a very hard punish. It's a high risk high reward scenario and if you ask me I'm not sure the risk is worth the reward. A sweep means she can get a heavy and maybe land one more attack to continue her "vortex". That only means 25 guaranteed damage really, so if she misses the sweep she's open for a gb. Most characters will do more than 25 damage so even if the valk guesses right 50% of the time she's still losing out on that trade in the long run. since her health pool is so small it makes it even more of a risk to give a free gb to someone whose heavies do 30-45 damage if there's a wall nearby.

Kaotic_CipherTV
05-13-2017, 07:09 AM
Ah my mistake I didn't see the message you responded to where I was talking about getting flak for calling her a noob stomper. I'm on console and so is coyote. It's not a loop hole to optimize your gaming setup. If you don't want to optimize then you can continue to get spammed in the face. It doesn't make sense to nerf a character when she's already easy to deal with because some people Don't have their game at peak performance . Just like For honor PC isn't built around people who have toasters, and it shouldn't be.

It is a loophole solution though. It doesnt change the game as a whole, just for that one character. If it made the game as a whole easier to play i would say it is optimizing, but if its literally only one character then its not about my tv/console settings. Lowering the resolution display on my xbox wont do anything but make the game look worse for me. At this point the problem stems from the internet/server/p2p aspect. Its about how the game reads and interprets a guard switch and the delay between the input and the server response. Thats why i say its a speed problem with valk, since her attack speed beats the input from console to server.

I agree with a previous post on this thread that her buff should have been for pure damage not attack speed and she is more of a problem lightspamming than the PK except she also has a full block charge that knocks down, leg sweep knock down, and a shield bash. With a good kit like hers she doesnt need the fastest lights too.

bananaflow2017
05-13-2017, 07:51 AM
Ok Rep 16 valk here.
I have to das Yes the first 5-7 Rep i rekt op with her. The the Players noticed her mechanics u guess.
As a valk you can struggle with a lot of enemies and ill explain y now.

At first your dmg is not really high so you have to chain long combos to deal decent dmg to your enemies.
And here is the critical point. Every assasin has such a fast recovery that they just dodge out of my "Infinite combo". I dont even need to try to sweep them, they will just dodge and gb me. Same as ny shoulder bash. They will dodge and gb.
So if i meet an assasins Ill have to poke him down and gb a lot.
Turtles: Yes usually only wardens and warlords do this but I've also seen kenseis doing this dir example and basicly everyone can do this against me.

Just stand block top and do nothing.
Sounds weird but the funny thing is:
Valk is one of the most offense characters and still doesnt have a real Opener....
Basicly i can dash strike and thats it.
Dunno who got this "Great Idea" but my Recovery is so long every block of a dash strike is a free gb. So Yes basicly dash strikes are not an option against Good Players. Shoulder bash? Will be dodged and end up in a gb.
Shield Tackle? Dodge and gb. Shield Tackle into dash strike ? Block gb...
So Yes my only option is feinting like hell and hit my first light, so then i have to hit another light to Sweep. I Play in ****ing Xbox in 30 fps and still These ****ing turtles manage to parry that what ends up in a heavy top for me.


So conclusion: valk is a noob Slayer. No more no less and that makes me sad:(

Antonioj26
05-13-2017, 01:38 PM
It is a loophole solution though. It doesnt change the game as a whole, just for that one character. If it made the game as a whole easier to play i would say it is optimizing, but if its literally only one character then its not about my tv/console settings. Lowering the resolution display on my xbox wont do anything but make the game look worse for me. At this point the problem stems from the internet/server/p2p aspect. Its about how the game reads and interprets a guard switch and the delay between the input and the server response. Thats why i say its a speed problem with valk, since her attack speed beats the input from console to server.

I agree with a previous post on this thread that her buff should have been for pure damage not attack speed and she is more of a problem lightspamming than the PK except she also has a full block charge that knocks down, leg sweep knock down, and a shield bash. With a good kit like hers she doesnt need the fastest lights too.

It actually does change the game as a whole though. Seriously, just do this and tell me there isn't a night a day difference. But she isn't more of a problem of light slamming than pk. The frame data is there. Everything you just listed is punishable. The charge knockdown shouldn't be knocking you down in duels, it takes forever to charge and if you dodge you get a free gb. Leg sweep can only be done after two successful attacks. If you just got hit twice then be ready for it and even if you guess wrong 50% you'll win the trades in the long run. Her shield bash does nothing except count as an attack to lead up to her sweep. No free damage or gb Accompanied with it and you still get a free go if you dodge it. Valks kit is all unsafe.

Antonioj26
05-13-2017, 01:40 PM
Ok Rep 16 valk here.
I have to das Yes the first 5-7 Rep i rekt op with her. The the Players noticed her mechanics u guess.
As a valk you can struggle with a lot of enemies and ill explain y now.

At first your dmg is not really high so you have to chain long combos to deal decent dmg to your enemies.
And here is the critical point. Every assasin has such a fast recovery that they just dodge out of my "Infinite combo". I dont even need to try to sweep them, they will just dodge and gb me. Same as ny shoulder bash. They will dodge and gb.
So if i meet an assasins Ill have to poke him down and gb a lot.
Turtles: Yes usually only wardens and warlords do this but I've also seen kenseis doing this dir example and basicly everyone can do this against me.

Just stand block top and do nothing.
Sounds weird but the funny thing is:
Valk is one of the most offense characters and still doesnt have a real Opener....
Basicly i can dash strike and thats it.
Dunno who got this "Great Idea" but my Recovery is so long every block of a dash strike is a free gb. So Yes basicly dash strikes are not an option against Good Players. Shoulder bash? Will be dodged and end up in a gb.
Shield Tackle? Dodge and gb. Shield Tackle into dash strike ? Block gb...
So Yes my only option is feinting like hell and hit my first light, so then i have to hit another light to Sweep. I Play in ****ing Xbox in 30 fps and still These ****ing turtles manage to parry that what ends up in a heavy top for me.


So conclusion: valk is a noob Slayer. No more no less and that makes me sad:(

This guy nailed it, I didn't read his post before I wrote mine so apologies for being redundant.

Antonioj26
05-13-2017, 04:06 PM
sadly on pc the infinite chain works really well its all about timing iv seen valks time it to where as soon as the person character put his hand on the ground to get up he would be stuck in another sweep already she needs less options for that sweep spam.

This just isn't true. If this infinite existed you would see this constantly in high levels of play but you don't. There is no infinite. The only time the sweep is guaranteed is on knockdown from exhaustion. I think this is why people think the sweep can't be dodged. This is the only time it's guaranteed. It's 52 damage. It's a pretty good punish but it's not the best and it's not enough to call it broken.

kanuzira
05-13-2017, 08:44 PM
For me it is the spear sweep. i bash backward jump but still get hit by her, she keeps continueing her speeps till the end of her stamina

Antonioj26
05-13-2017, 08:49 PM
For me it is the spear sweep. i bash backward jump but still get hit by her, she keeps continueing her speeps till the end of her stamina

Your timing is off then in the video I posted you can see the zerk dodge back

Hormly
05-14-2017, 12:22 AM
I smash valks hard but I think lord might be a hard counter? am I the only one that gets free GBs on blocking her lights?

Antonioj26
05-14-2017, 01:06 AM
I smash valks hard but I think lord might be a hard counter? am I the only one that gets free GBs on blocking her lights?

I don't think you get free gbs on her lights. You do on her dash attacks and that's for everyone.

That_guy44
05-14-2017, 02:29 AM
Valkyrie has plenty openers. If you only use the same basics ones that's your own fault. Valkyrie has more mixups then anyone else in a game. I can finish a round without doing the same combo. The only thing I haven't figured out is dodging her sweep. If when I know it's coming and mashing the dodge button it still gets me. Assassins and Kensei have no problem with their side dashes but I keeping caught by it.

bananaflow2017
05-14-2017, 10:57 AM
Valkyrie has plenty openers. If you only use the same basics ones that's your own fault. Valkyrie has more mixups then anyone else in a game. I can finish a round without doing the same combo. The only thing I haven't figured out is dodging her sweep. If when I know it's coming and mashing the dodge button it still gets me. Assassins and Kensei have no problem with their side dashes but I keeping caught by it.

Pls inform before u write Stuff like that.
Yes valk has got plenty of openers, but all of them are dodged easy and end up in a gb for you or get blocked what is also a gb for you.
A fckin gb for a simple block man....

If valk is so op or fine tell me how many mlg tournaments are won by valk players in the last month.

That_guy44
05-14-2017, 12:00 PM
Valkyrie is not op. Her damage is laughable and she doesn't have an insta zone.

For her openers, I had to wait till I was on a computer. Her dash attacks are easily punished so I only use them off of feints on people I see lacking good defense.

Whiff light>light>sweep

whiff light>light>light(for daze)

whiff light>light>heavy(to catch people attempting to punish the sweep

light>light>dash lightx2(see above)

whiff heavy>light>light or dash light or sweep

whiff heavy>shield bash> light or sweep (if I dont connect with the shield bash I will use a light to avoid being punished and then sweep.

light>light> charge shield bash (this is excellent for people who love using dash attacks)

I like going from heavy to light because Valkyrie's attacks are so fast and the change of speed tends to trip a lot of people up. These are the openers I've found. There are probably more out there. These combos are a lot harder to defend and decreases the chance of an automatic guard break. These are just openers. i'm not even accounting for after they get knocked down or adding feints.

CaynAldan
05-14-2017, 01:34 PM
I really don't understand why is supposed to be op. I found everybody has no problems to dodge sweep or block second light. And you are claiming for an infinite combo that can be done only in revenge mode with other heros with infinite combos everytime they want (warden, conq, LB...)

Devs say they want every hero at warlod level. At this moment i think valk is at this level, more or less.. Maybe a bit less. We have to wait for be the same for other heros and see...

When i face a valk, with every character, we have no much problems with her, and i can punish her very hard, warden and conq (for example) are far more dangerous and very far less punishable.

And in 4v4 it's even worse, because valk need so much time to kil anyone that i always get surrounded before i can finish my opponent.

It's a very good hero but i found her very far from need a nerf.

In fact I'll give a bit of damage to top heavy, one or two points

Jarl.Felix
12-03-2017, 02:03 PM
Valkyre is still op. Fastest side attacks, best unblockables and an undodgeable with vanguard/heavy class swipe. Ez.

Alregard
12-03-2017, 02:20 PM
Well done digging up that old Thread!

But I hope you are joking. Valkyre is slow, weak and easy to dodge! And gb works on Block. Her kit is cool but too slow and weak AND she needs a heavy option midchain.
PC experience

Jarl.Felix
12-03-2017, 02:34 PM
IF you know how to play valk, you can even play on reaction, and they can't even hit you.

CandleInTheDark
12-03-2017, 03:15 PM
Valkyre is still op. Fastest side attacks, best unblockables and an undodgeable with vanguard/heavy class swipe. Ez.

How far back did you have to go to necromance this one?

Besides that you're factually incorrect on at least one thing, I would say there is an argument that you are incorrect on the rest of it.

Side lights. her light side dash is 500, equalled by the raider, shinobi and gladiator.

Side light basic is 500, bettered by highlander in offensive stance, equalled by peacekeeper, warlord, berserker,nobushi, centurion, gladiator, aramusha and shaman

Side light combo is 500, bettered by peacekeeper, equalled by lawbringer, berserker, centurion, shinobi, aramusha and shaman. On the topic of second lights, orochi, warden, shinobi and shaman all get a free light off of at least one attack. In terms of the side side combo, she is bettered by peacekeeper, shinobi (dual hit) and shaman (dual hit) equalled by centurion and shaman (if not the same direction)

What the site I got this from describes as side light combo + is 600,bettered by lawbringer, nobushi, aramusha after a feint, equalled by orochi, centurion and gladiator.

Unblockable, if you mean her allblock, that is very linear, her sweep similarly is very often dodged.Shinobi's unblockable has priority over all other unblockables, gladiator's unblockable comes from any dodge, dazes and drains stamina and if I recall can be followed by a free heavy, valkyrie's unblockable is at least third in my view if not also behind centurion's.

Undodgeable, shaman's undodgeable heals her so valk is at least behind that, though really what valk's undodgeable nets her is a guaranteed heavy, except the peacekeeeper (who has bleed lights) and aramusha, everyone gets a free heavy off guardbreak and while the valkyrie can go for a sweep to follow up with, most good players dodge that follow up. And given she is a heavy as part of her hybrid, I don't see anything wrong with her getting something from the heavy line either, she doesn't get all the benefits of either assassin or heavy.

That is without the fact that she is pretty punishable, like many she is a noob stomper 1v1 and very viable in 4v4 but high tier 1v1 there are a lot above her.


IF you know how to play valk, you can even play on reaction, and they can't even hit you.

Same can be said about anyone including kensei, I have had fun making aramushas, centurions and wardens salty to the point the centurion and aramusha ragequit.

Arekonator
12-03-2017, 03:24 PM
Funnily enough, valkyrie was moving only down in pretty much every tier list as the time went on.
And i would like for everyone to stop for a second and appretiate irony of OP being Peacekeeper main and complaining about light spam.

CandleInTheDark
12-03-2017, 04:11 PM
Funnily enough, valkyrie was moving only down in pretty much every tier list as the time went on.
And i would like for everyone to stop for a second and appretiate irony of OP being Peacekeeper main and complaining about light spam.

It gets worse than that, some of us pk mains have wanted light spam dealt with from the start, he was one of the git gud types who was furious when anyone else had similar.

bob333e
12-03-2017, 04:35 PM
Valkyrie is in no way overpowered. Only, there are differing ways in how to counter her attacks than other fast heroes. For instance, best keep your guard stance to the left because her right light attack poke (coming from your left) is almost always faster than guard stance switching from right to left; if that poke lands she can land a poke from the other side and chain that into a leg sweep or shield bash.

Most of her attacks deal small damage, except when you're leg-swooped and she lands an overhead heavy.

Concerning leg sweep and shield bash, they are easily dodged at the right time. The only way the leg sweep is guaranteed is if you've been bashed/stunned before with a shield bash. Which is as easily avoided as stun bashes from other heroes.

If it wasn't for her shield bash and leg sweep moves, she would just be a lame spear poking thing which would have probably interested nobody in the first place. It's those special moves that make her a Valkyrie. And they are easily counterable.

For the record, I'm on console, and I have no problem at all timing my dodges/blocks/parries against Valkyrie. It's mostly knowing her moves and how to deal with her. Same case as every other hero. Know their moveset, you'll have an easier time.

Obviously, Lawbringer, Shugoki and I think Raider have even slower stance switching speeds, but Valkyrie is nowhere as problematic as Peacekeeper, Shinobi, Gladiator, Aramusha and Shaman when it comes to overall attack speed.

Bottom line: You probably don't face many Valkyrie mains (I say mains because only they are real deadly with her). Hence why she troubles you. Practice against her, don't let her moves remain a stranger to your counter dictionary.

And she doesn't need any nerfs. She's fine where she is.

ChrisTaben2017
12-03-2017, 04:41 PM
Massively broken character on consoles we all notorious comment about it in my team on xbox all the time. It was broken since it got buffed and the only reason its not more apparent is because when people started talking about it cent came out and everyone was paying attention to that

ShonM93
12-03-2017, 04:58 PM
Valk, broken? Let's see: massively punishable legsweep and shield bash. Easily parryable lights (maybe the first isn't but the second is just a free parry). If you block her dash lights, that's a free gb on her. Her gb speed is a joke and the recovery on a miss is half a f*ckin' hour. Her OOS punish is nice tho and her deflect is kind of useable now. So uhm, no she's certainly not broken, the only thing that starts with "B" considering everything i just said is her tier and her "B"oobs.

Alustar.
12-03-2017, 05:21 PM
Just don't ever throw it a slow top heavy against a skilled valkyrie and you are fine. Otherwise you well get stamina broken and you will be punished for being stupid

Arekonator
12-03-2017, 05:54 PM
Obviously, Lawbringer, Shugoki and I think Raider have even slower stance switching speeds, but Valkyrie is nowhere as problematic as Peacekeeper, Shinobi, Gladiator, Aramusha and Shaman when it comes to overall attack speed..

Just gonna nitpick here, but i am pretty sure we got uniform guard switch speed between characters somewhere along S2 or S3.

masen9999
12-03-2017, 06:05 PM
no you just arent as good as you thought you were

CandleInTheDark
12-03-2017, 06:11 PM
Just gonna nitpick here, but i am pretty sure we got uniform guard switch speed between characters somewhere along S2 or S3.

Yeah patch 1.08.01 back in June

Guard Switch

Centurion’s guard switch cancel from guard switch reduced to 100ms (from 300ms).
Lawbringer’s guard switch cancel from guard switch reduced to 100ms (from 300ms).
Raider’s guard switch cancel from guard switch reduced to 100ms (from 300ms).
Nobushi’s guard switch cancel from guard switch reduced to 100ms (from 300ms).
Shugoki’s guard switch cancel from guard switch reduced to 100ms (from 300ms).

Developer comments: These five characters had a longer guard switch to guard switch delay. We wanted to try and accommodate gameplay and fidelity by increasing this delay so that guard switch spam wouldn’t look too glitchy on these characters. The side effect was that these characters had a higher challenge on defense since it took them more time to correct their guard. We’ve decided to bring these guys to the same level as others with 100ms guard switch to guard switch so that the defensive challenge is levelled across characters.

SenBotsu893
12-03-2017, 06:20 PM
spammy attacks aside the thing i dont like is that she gets a free leg sweep if the opponend tried to change guard stance.
there has to be something done with it due to the guard switch delay into dodge is giving her too much reward.

its basically rewards her with a heavy for landing 2 lights.

bob333e
12-03-2017, 07:20 PM
Yeah patch 1.08.01 back in June

Guard Switch

Centurion’s guard switch cancel from guard switch reduced to 100ms (from 300ms).
Lawbringer’s guard switch cancel from guard switch reduced to 100ms (from 300ms).
Raider’s guard switch cancel from guard switch reduced to 100ms (from 300ms).
Nobushi’s guard switch cancel from guard switch reduced to 100ms (from 300ms).
Shugoki’s guard switch cancel from guard switch reduced to 100ms (from 300ms).

Developer comments: These five characters had a longer guard switch to guard switch delay. We wanted to try and accommodate gameplay and fidelity by increasing this delay so that guard switch spam wouldn’t look too glitchy on these characters. The side effect was that these characters had a higher challenge on defense since it took them more time to correct their guard. We’ve decided to bring these guys to the same level as others with 100ms guard switch to guard switch so that the defensive challenge is levelled across characters.

Ah right, I stand corrected. I wasn't here during patch 1.08.01, henceforth never stumbled on these patch notes. Thanks for the info! and good to hear this thing was adjusted across all characters.

@Arekonator my point still stands tho; if you're not used to playing a specific hero, you'll always struggle against an opponent's fast attacks. In the aforementioned case in my previous message, my case was with Lawbringer himself; I tried him in a few duels, and I definitely felt slower. Specifically, it was 4-5 duels to complete a certain order back then, on which I had to use Lawbringer. From what I remember, I had faced an Orochi and a Gladiator. Got steamrolled by both. I don't recall much the other matches with Lawbringer.

Arekonator
12-03-2017, 07:28 PM
@Arekonator my point still stands tho; if you're not used to playing a specific hero, you'll always struggle against an opponent's fast attacks. In the aforementioned case in my previous message, my case was with Lawbringer himself; I tried him in a few duels, and I definitely felt slower. Specifically, it was 4-5 duels to complete a certain order back then, on which I had to use Lawbringer. From what I remember, I had faced an Orochi and a Gladiator. Got steamrolled by both. I don't recall much the other matches with Lawbringer.

Yeah i am not disputing that. I have same problem, i played Lawbringer so much that muscle memory gets in my way when i try to play anything else.

bob333e
12-03-2017, 07:38 PM
Yeah i am not disputing that. I have same problem, i played Lawbringer so much that muscle memory gets in my way when i try to play anything else.

Exactly. I'm a Warden main, going Lawbringer is definitely another field. It didn't work out for me at all. I could practice Lawbringer but I just refuse to, out of fear of rusting myself out on Warden... well perhaps after I hit rep40 on Warden. Leveling up is a damn chore as-is. It's mostly because you want to unlock things that you know will achieve your final desired look, but alas, they're locked behind rep28 onwards. Bah, slow and steady, we get there...

CandleInTheDark
12-03-2017, 08:02 PM
Exactly. I'm a Warden main, going Lawbringer is definitely another field. It didn't work out for me at all. I could practice Lawbringer but I just refuse to, out of fear of rusting myself out on Warden... well perhaps after I hit rep40 on Warden. Leveling up is a damn chore as-is. It's mostly because you want to unlock things that you know will achieve your final desired look, but alas, they're locked behind rep28 onwards. Bah, slow and steady, we get there...

I'm pretty much the opposite, while I am a peacekeeper main, before I consider characters I am a 4v4 pug player and had a lot of games that were all assassin. I had mostly been levelling assassins but given I can wait to see what my team are selecting, I levelled up warden, conqueror, valkyrie and nobushi. I also have the berserker, shinobi, gladiator, shaman and recently the kensei going, likely won't rep 7 those until servers come in and I don't need to grind against AI but I like the variety enough I will likely finish the knights with lawbringer, centurion and whatever is new by then and decide whether I want to take my peacekeeper to 40 alongside playing whatever the team needs when it isn't an assassin or move onto the characters I haven't touched.

I am pretty OCD though, I have to be sure I will get a character to at least rep 1 so I spend a week against level 3 bots with them when I am done PVP gaming for the day,which generally means I play well once I get to it, I have been doing pretty well with kensei since starting out with him because I already knew the mixups and I am pretty sure I could go back to any of my core 4v4 characters.

bob333e
12-03-2017, 08:11 PM
I am pretty OCD though, I have to be sure I will get a character to at least rep 1 so I spend a week against level 3 bots with them when I am done PVP gaming for the day,which generally means I play well once I get to it, I have been doing pretty well with kensei since starting out with him because I already knew the mixups and I am pretty sure I could go back to any of my core 4v4 characters.

See, that's the thing; I never practiced on level 3 bots with anything other than Warden. Every other hero I've tried was either Duels, Skirmishes, and sometimes Tribute and Dominion, mostly for orders; there just never was any proper grinding alone against level 3 bots. My pure focus is on the Warden and I intend to squeeze out every little technique I can think of with the Warden; especially given that he's very vulnerable to dodge attacks, not the least Shaman, who has it as fast as a light attack, is a heavy, and cannot be GB'ed out of it.

I leveled Orochi to rep1, but that's mostly doing half-arsed duels against players, I still don't feel I learned him much. His combos differ, his mixups differ; until I truly master the Warden, training on another hero is likely to hinder me from mastering my favourite one.

I admire your flexibility in learning so many heroes! I, too, plan to do just that; I've already decided on my secondary, and he'll be Highlander :) I just need more time... I only started For Honor early November hahaha

CandleInTheDark
12-03-2017, 08:16 PM
See, that's the thing; I never practiced on level 3 bots with anything other than Warden. Every other hero I've tried was either Duels, Skirmishes, and sometimes Tribute and Dominion, mostly for orders; there just never was any proper grinding alone against level 3 bots. My pure focus is on the Warden and I intend to squeeze out every little technique I can think of with the Warden; especially given that he's very vulnerable to dodge attacks, not the least Shaman, who has it as fast as a light attack, is a heavy, and cannot be GB'ed out of it.

I leveled Orochi to rep1, but that's mostly doing half-arsed duels against players, I still don't feel I learned him much. His combos differ, his mixups differ; until I truly master the Warden, training on another hero is likely to hinder me from mastering my favourite one.

I admire your flexibility in learning so many heroes! I, too, plan to do just that; I've already decided on my secondary, and he'll be Highlander :) I just need more time... I only started For Honor early November hahaha

Yeah you want to learn one character at least really well first and foremost, I think I was rep 5 peacekeeper before I started seriously levelling anything else (by seriously I mean I had a few others around rep 1) and she is rep 9 now because I spent so much of last season levelling others I have been putting time into her again before picking up others. One quirk I do have because I started out with an assassin is I tend to block every attack where with a fixed stance you don't need to if you are already guarding that side but it's not enough of a problem I feel like setting out to correct it lol.

bob333e
12-03-2017, 08:27 PM
I'm rep 11 Warden, and rep 1 Orochi, for a total of rep 12, but I still feel I'm like halfway there with the Warden. It's mostly due to having played Dominion so much while I was still rep 2, to just level up faster, stacking XP, and having nearly every Dominion match a salad of spam and gankfests without learning 1on1 combat much. These days I'm focusing more on Duel, Brawl and Elimination, as well as Custom Match against level 3 bots. The learning curve has definitely improved. Yet still a fairly long road to go.

Imo, I'd only dedicate time to another hero after I feel I don't struggle as much anymore against any other hero, particularly level 3 bots, because by then you'll already know the other hero's combos, feints, mixups, timings... it'd only be matter of looking at the movelist and checking out which is what. The learning process will definitely be faster than the time you spent on your original favourite hero, and you'll still feel you can counter the others with your OG choice.

CandleInTheDark
12-03-2017, 08:34 PM
I am mostly a 4v4 objective (dominion and tribute) player, it is what I prefer when it comes down to it.At the same time I also spend some time in duel,especially with newer characters,because I get to the point I can't defend a zone 1v1 if I neglect that,so certainly I would say that is where you best learn a character. For some duel is what they prefer but I do think 4v4 players should go there now and again just to iron out bad habits you get away with in the madness of everyone swinging away at everyone else.

bob333e
12-03-2017, 08:41 PM
Couldn't have put it better meself. While in 4v4 assists are rampant, really knowing your hero, and knowing your enemy, are a must; duels are just as important as 4v4 modes. As for Tribute, I wish I can play that more in PvP; I have no premade team yet, and even if I had, I lack a mic for proper communication. For Tribute I mostly do it PvAI. The idea of jumping in a random team in PvP, in a game mode that's focused on teamwork, tends to go haywire real quick. I've tried it, and it was every man for himself. No real coordination, and mostly pure luck to score more offerings than the other team.

CandleInTheDark
12-03-2017, 08:48 PM
Couldn't have put it better meself. While in 4v4 assists are rampant, really knowing your hero, and knowing your enemy, are a must; duels are just as important as 4v4 modes. As for Tribute, I wish I can play that more in PvP; I have no premade team yet, and even if I had, I lack a mic for proper communication. For Tribute I mostly do it PvAI. The idea of jumping in a random team in PvP, in a game mode that's focused on teamwork, tends to go haywire real quick. I've tried it, and it was every man for himself. No real coordination, and mostly pure luck to score more offerings than the other team.

Yeah it's on you to read what is going on and do as best you can when it comes down to it.If I see any obvious gaps or if no one is protecting tributes I will fill it as best I can. it helps if your team has oracle, I defended two tributes because the other flag base was a constant 4v3 for the remaining tribute where occasionally one of the 4 on the opponent's side would break away to try to take ours, oracle let me cut them off and eventually enough of them were dead at one time the last was taken.

Probably my best situation read was in dominion, we were breaking and the four of us were holding zone keeping fights outside of it so that our score was ticking up but it was not going fast enough the other team couldn't just run out the clock, I got lucky in a run to the other bas;e and held it just long enough to trigger double breaking which we won off. Tribute it is harder, you do need to luck into being matched with three players not running around like headless chickens trying to boost their own score, if you have at least two people playing smart, they can work around whatever the other two are doing.

bob333e
12-03-2017, 08:52 PM
Tribute it is harder, you do need to luck into being matched with three players not running around like headless chickens trying to boost their own score, if you have at least two people playing smart, they can work around whatever the other two are doing.

This. Can't tell you how many times I've been with and against people in Dominion and Tribute (mostly in Dominion) who play it like Skirmish, purely for the kills. I mean, what's the catch? do they screenshot the end scoreboard "bruh look at muh killz muh K/D" and most times they're people rep20+. When you think they know Dominion....

D-d0g56
12-03-2017, 09:04 PM
I've been maining HL on PS4 and valk is a gift to fight. Her lights are some of the few in the game I can parry consistantly which is the only time I get a free heavy. She's fairly easily shut down for a sheild character. Blocks and light is her greatest enemy.

bananaflow2017
12-04-2017, 08:30 AM
Wow a thread about valk being op XD.
Made my day. I guess valk belongs to the weakest characters ingame actually.
I played her to Rep 28 now and l still have to say, that her kit is to weak...
Very predictable...
I have to do a real dance to at least get a light or a gb through my enemy...
She got no engage cuz its a gb on block. Everything is punished with a gb and the the light light heavy combo is basicly a free lightparry so it's not available...
Sweep only works as an oos punisher.
Basicly if anybody would ask me what the best way of playing valk is I would das he should start a glad....
In 4v4 you are a shieldbash and sweep spamming machine.