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View Full Version : To P-38 whiners and afficondos alike



Korolov
06-18-2004, 03:30 PM
If you're one of those who think the P-38 is undermodeled or otherwise sucks, I recommend you download these two tracks:

P-38L vs 4 Bf-109K-4 aces (http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/korolov_p38k4acetrk.zip)
- this track shows me defeating 4 Bf-109K-4s set to Ace skill level in 2.01. Everybody has 25% fuel, as do I. Make paticular note of how very close that the 109s came to cleaning my clock. However, I eventually win the fight with a few 13mm holes in my P-38.

Korolov's P-38L vs. CrazyIvan's Bf-109K-4 (http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/p38vsk4track.zip) - in this track, we have both planes without ammo and at 25% fuel. While I do loose the fight to Ivan (he IS a superior pilot when it comes to 109s), you can understand how the P-38 handles in relation to the Bf-109. They are very alike. This track was taken in 2.0.

First of all, I don't use 2.02 yet and won't until it's officially released. I've heard some of you say the P-38 has better guns in 2.02; whether or not that's true is debateable, but I've only had one problem with the guns, and that was in 2.0 when it was 15 seconds short of it's actual .50 cal ammo load.

Second, the P-38, in a online dogfight server, is no good unless it has a significant advantage over contemporary planes. The best solution to this is to use the P-38s amazing climb rate to get up to a altitude well above the enemy. Get a feel for the P-38L's dive brakes and how they affect pullout in a dive - the dive brakes are almost like a lead computing sight for me. If you find yourself in the P-38J model, the best solution is to limit the angle of the dive; the ability of the P-38 to pull out of a dive is much better at 20 degrees than 45 degrees. This is true for both models, and I recommend it over using dive brakes and trim because these cause loss of energy. Another highly effective advantage is a numbers advantage or a wingman. The P-38 is a big huge fighter that will draw every son of a b*tch and his Mk108 over to it for the measly 200 points. What you want to hide from them is the fact the P-38 is very hard to hit from dead six unless the plane is showing it's topside. You also want them thinking about the P-38 in front and not the P-38 behind.

Third, if you find yourself at a disadvantage (and you did what the above says), remember that the P-38 can ditch energy quickly and regain it quickly. If someone is right on your butt, speed for speed, you either need to increase the speed of the fight or get somebody to blow him off your six. If you increase the speed of the fight, the enemy plane will have to cope with more lead required and a possible blackout problem. When you get up to speed, and he's back with you, do every manuver in the book that will cause loss of energy. The Bf-109 and the Fw-190 both have a harder time at lowering their energy state than the P-38. Naturally, you should force them to overshoot (and you might get a shot at them from this point) and change the odds. For example, if you're in a dive (and no more than 45 degrees) with a Bf-109 on your butt, draw the fight up to about 600kmh/350mph IAS. At this speed, the Bf-109 has more control troubles than you do - you can outroll him and do pullouts that the 109 can't follow. If you roll away from the fight and do a 180, the 109 will be stressed to follow and will likely pull up to regain a favorable position. Once you finish the 180, you can pull straight up and meet the 109 head to head or on his six as he tries to pull away.

If you find yourself against a Fw-190, the solution is the exact opposite to the Bf-109. You start climbing away rather than diving. Spiral climbs will work great against the Fw-190As and Ta-152.

Finally, the best target for the P-38 is the one that doesn't see you coming. That means learn to fly on servers where externals are disabled. Obviously, that won't fly with some of you, so you'll have to learn some evasive manuvers and be more patient while you work up the altitude advantage or wait for 3 other P-38s to takeoff. I strongly discourage turnfighting and any form of fighting that puts you at risk to enemy munitions. Remember, they have 30mm cannons, you only have a 20mm. Avoid putting yourself in a position where you can't easily escape (like diving away or climbing away.) Keep your speed in the realm of 400 to 500kmh, avoid excessive engagements that draw you into the dirt, and regain whatever lost energy and altitude after a fight. Most of all, remember that the fight is always dynamic. These guidelines are just reference points. There are always exceptions, and a fighter pilot must be able to flow with the fight. The P-38 paticularly requires you to be able to adapt to any situation.

Good luck, P-38 fans!

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Korolov
06-18-2004, 03:30 PM
If you're one of those who think the P-38 is undermodeled or otherwise sucks, I recommend you download these two tracks:

P-38L vs 4 Bf-109K-4 aces (http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/korolov_p38k4acetrk.zip)
- this track shows me defeating 4 Bf-109K-4s set to Ace skill level in 2.01. Everybody has 25% fuel, as do I. Make paticular note of how very close that the 109s came to cleaning my clock. However, I eventually win the fight with a few 13mm holes in my P-38.

Korolov's P-38L vs. CrazyIvan's Bf-109K-4 (http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/p38vsk4track.zip) - in this track, we have both planes without ammo and at 25% fuel. While I do loose the fight to Ivan (he IS a superior pilot when it comes to 109s), you can understand how the P-38 handles in relation to the Bf-109. They are very alike. This track was taken in 2.0.

First of all, I don't use 2.02 yet and won't until it's officially released. I've heard some of you say the P-38 has better guns in 2.02; whether or not that's true is debateable, but I've only had one problem with the guns, and that was in 2.0 when it was 15 seconds short of it's actual .50 cal ammo load.

Second, the P-38, in a online dogfight server, is no good unless it has a significant advantage over contemporary planes. The best solution to this is to use the P-38s amazing climb rate to get up to a altitude well above the enemy. Get a feel for the P-38L's dive brakes and how they affect pullout in a dive - the dive brakes are almost like a lead computing sight for me. If you find yourself in the P-38J model, the best solution is to limit the angle of the dive; the ability of the P-38 to pull out of a dive is much better at 20 degrees than 45 degrees. This is true for both models, and I recommend it over using dive brakes and trim because these cause loss of energy. Another highly effective advantage is a numbers advantage or a wingman. The P-38 is a big huge fighter that will draw every son of a b*tch and his Mk108 over to it for the measly 200 points. What you want to hide from them is the fact the P-38 is very hard to hit from dead six unless the plane is showing it's topside. You also want them thinking about the P-38 in front and not the P-38 behind.

Third, if you find yourself at a disadvantage (and you did what the above says), remember that the P-38 can ditch energy quickly and regain it quickly. If someone is right on your butt, speed for speed, you either need to increase the speed of the fight or get somebody to blow him off your six. If you increase the speed of the fight, the enemy plane will have to cope with more lead required and a possible blackout problem. When you get up to speed, and he's back with you, do every manuver in the book that will cause loss of energy. The Bf-109 and the Fw-190 both have a harder time at lowering their energy state than the P-38. Naturally, you should force them to overshoot (and you might get a shot at them from this point) and change the odds. For example, if you're in a dive (and no more than 45 degrees) with a Bf-109 on your butt, draw the fight up to about 600kmh/350mph IAS. At this speed, the Bf-109 has more control troubles than you do - you can outroll him and do pullouts that the 109 can't follow. If you roll away from the fight and do a 180, the 109 will be stressed to follow and will likely pull up to regain a favorable position. Once you finish the 180, you can pull straight up and meet the 109 head to head or on his six as he tries to pull away.

If you find yourself against a Fw-190, the solution is the exact opposite to the Bf-109. You start climbing away rather than diving. Spiral climbs will work great against the Fw-190As and Ta-152.

Finally, the best target for the P-38 is the one that doesn't see you coming. That means learn to fly on servers where externals are disabled. Obviously, that won't fly with some of you, so you'll have to learn some evasive manuvers and be more patient while you work up the altitude advantage or wait for 3 other P-38s to takeoff. I strongly discourage turnfighting and any form of fighting that puts you at risk to enemy munitions. Remember, they have 30mm cannons, you only have a 20mm. Avoid putting yourself in a position where you can't easily escape (like diving away or climbing away.) Keep your speed in the realm of 400 to 500kmh, avoid excessive engagements that draw you into the dirt, and regain whatever lost energy and altitude after a fight. Most of all, remember that the fight is always dynamic. These guidelines are just reference points. There are always exceptions, and a fighter pilot must be able to flow with the fight. The P-38 paticularly requires you to be able to adapt to any situation.

Good luck, P-38 fans!

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Mitlov47
06-18-2004, 03:34 PM
Good post.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/387_1087453960_dorasigj3.jpg

BS87
06-18-2004, 03:39 PM
Awsome, i was just waiting for this post. P38 is FINE. I don't want it to become uber, because i don't want to put up with the whining.

Now we just need the track of you hitting the bail out button instead of dropping your ordinance http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Korolov
06-18-2004, 03:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BS87:
Now we just need the track of you hitting the bail out button instead of dropping your ordinance http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I fell asleep at the yoke while a gremlin chewed off my saftey harness and popped the hatch. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

mortoma
06-18-2004, 03:44 PM
The P-38J goes as fast as it should at the altitude that the guy in the other post said it wouldn't. The IL2compare speed text files say it should go 667Kph at 7,600 meters. I was able to get it that fast in FMB at that alitude by closing the radiator completely. It was too hard to do in QMB since they start you out too slow in QMB. So I madea little mission starting it out at 7600m at 600Kph. It was not hard to do. And not all of us americans whine about our planes. Most of them are acceptable for a simulation, which are never perfect. My mission was with full fuel and ammo too!!

crazyivan1970
06-18-2004, 04:20 PM
Great Post Koro http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

SeaFireLIV
06-18-2004, 04:34 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gibbage1
06-18-2004, 04:36 PM
OK. Let me chime in here.

As the creator of the P-38 for IL2 I have had a LOT of comunications with Oleg. The P-38 is VERY much "my baby". I fly it online about 70% of the time now, with the other 30% the P-63.

First, I dont see any MAJOR problems with the P-38's FM. Just a few quibbles, but most of the big stuff was worked out in 2.01 like slow roll on some PC's and the ammo load.

Second, it was quite a big aircraft. Dont expect it to work mericals FOR you. You need to work with it.

Third. I have NO PROBLEM what so ever keeping up in a fight with 109's, Ki-84's, Fw-190's, and such on EQUAL TERMS. The major hurtle is getting behind them. Yak's and LA's will toast a P-38 EZ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Forth, Examin your tactics. Dont B&Z. At least not in 2.01. It does not have the firepower to dispatch a target in the few fleating moments you have on them, and most targets (109, 190, Yak, LA) will catch you after your zoom is over.

Dont T&B unless your up against a P-47 or late-war 190.

Use energy fighting tactics to conserve your energy and get the taget to loose his. If you over shoot, loop around. Use your airbrakes. Once you get behind the target, you can stay there, or disenguage at will. It has great energy retention, and outstanding accelleration. USE IT!!

Use team-tactics to defeat Yak's and LA's. Try to damage them on the first pass with the .50's to cripple there turning ability.

There are some VERY nice tricks you can use on the P-38 you cant do with any other aircraft. I think Korolov shows one (climb 90% up, at 100-130KPH, hit dive brakes flaps and yank hard).

Dont try and run. You will only die tired http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Unless your running for a teammates help.

Tips over.

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

Gibbage1
06-18-2004, 04:37 PM
One other thing I would like to add.

I am going to be sending a copy of IL2 with Aces to a P-38 pilot who fly's the restored P-38 at the Planes of Fame museum. He will review the in-game FM and give his openion. I hope to post it soon, but I feel that besides the stalls, it will be very close.

Gib

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

Gibbage1
06-18-2004, 04:41 PM
There is a differant between getting to 400MPH at 25,000 feet and staying at 400MPH at 25000 feet. In a Go-229, I dove it to the deck and got 850KPH and I was able to stay at 850KPH. Does that mean the Go-229's top speed at sea level is 850KPH?

I have not yet tested the P-38's speed at altitude, but if you cant take off, climb to 7600M and acheave 667KPH, there is a problem. Because in WWII, nobody had air-start. Well maybe I-16 pilots off of TB3's http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
The P-38J goes as fast as it should at the altitude that the guy in the other post said it wouldn't. The IL2compare speed text files say it should go 667Kph at 7,600 meters. I was able to get it that fast in FMB at that alitude by closing the radiator completely. It was too hard to do in QMB since they start you out too slow in QMB. So I madea little mission starting it out at 7600m at 600Kph. It was not hard to do. And not all of us americans whine about our planes. Most of them are acceptable for a simulation, which are never perfect. My mission was with full fuel and ammo too!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

Gibbage1
06-18-2004, 04:50 PM
Last night I was on Greater Green. Flying my P-38. I was loaded up with bombs and rockets heading for the target. I was bounced by a 109. I quickly diched everying and went after him. A diving P-47 distracted him from me long enough for me to turn the situation. I was on his tail and he could NOT shake me. I shot him down after some great combat. Then a 190 tried to pick me off. Again, I reversed the situation and shot him down. I flew over the target, straifed a few vehicles, and then decided I was feeling good and flew to there air base. I enguaged a 109 before I got there, and shot him down. He said "Whats with this Uber P-38?". Once I got over his base, I had stirred up a hornets nest. 3 109's, a 190 and a Ta-152 promply dispatched me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif But its the first time I had heard the P-38 called "Uber"

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

BS87
06-18-2004, 05:04 PM
Little post happy gibbage? eheheheh http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bomber_Dude
06-18-2004, 05:04 PM
850Kph in the Gotha ? I assume you had vulnerablity off, I've had wings come off at much lower speeds than that !

http://www.computech-online.net/~garyb/pix/sig01.jpg

gates123
06-18-2004, 05:04 PM
Again...These planes are only as good as their pilots

http://www.flightjournal.com/images/index_photos/gunslinging.jpg
Did anyone see that or was it just me?

smirko-smurf
06-18-2004, 05:14 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

[This message was edited by crazyivan1970 on Fri June 18 2004 at 05:07 PM.]

Gibbage1
06-18-2004, 05:18 PM
No. Full real. When aces first came out. So I think it was in 2.0. I dont know if thins have changed since I dont fly it. I remember I was online also. I was on TS talking to my squad mates saying "DUDE! This thing is going 850KPH and its not slowing down!!!". I think the P-80 does the same.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bomber_Dude:
850Kph in the Gotha ? I assume you had vulnerablity off, I've had wings come off at much lower speeds than that !

http://www.computech-online.net/~garyb/pix/sig01.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

Gibbage1
06-18-2004, 05:19 PM
I been quiet with all the P-38 threads because I am happy with it. I had all this built up for some time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BS87:
Little post happy gibbage? eheheheh http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

Korolov
06-18-2004, 05:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Gibbage:
Third. I have NO PROBLEM what so ever keeping up in a fight with 109's, Ki-84's, Fw-190's, and such on EQUAL TERMS. The major hurtle is getting behind them. Yak's and LA's will toast a P-38 EZ
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what I'm talking about. Russian fighters, for all intents and purposes, would be flying alongside the P-38. Thus, my point of view is on how to deal with contemporary axis opponents and not allied opponents. Personally though, I find that Lavochkins and Yakolev fighters as easy meat for USAAF birds - the .50 cals rip them to shreds.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Forth, Examin your tactics. Dont B&Z. At least not in 2.01. It does not have the firepower to dispatch a target in the few fleating moments you have on them, and most targets (109, 190, Yak, LA) will catch you after your zoom is over.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Highly disagree. B&Z is one of the key manuvers that the P-38 can perform extremely well. The firepower is more than enough to down a enemy bandit in one pass. Most enemy fighters won't catch you in the zoom if you do it right.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Dont try and run. You will only die tired Unless your running for a teammates help.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The P-38 will never die tired from running. If you want her to run, she'll be going around like being powered by nitrus oxide!

smirko-smurf: Bad form. Really bad form.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

crazyivan1970
06-18-2004, 06:08 PM
smirko, if you reading this, you were suspended and not just this account. Have a nice vacation http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

BS87
06-18-2004, 07:12 PM
We should call you Iron Fist Ivan instead of crazy ivan http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

wayno7777
06-18-2004, 09:33 PM
Capt. Thomas Lynch had a set of tactics and so did Maj. Thomas McQuire. Korolov and Gibbage pretty much nailed it on the head! Good insight on the P-38 can be obtained by reading "Fork-Tailed Devil: The P-38" by Martin Caidin. ~S! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Dux_Wreck.jpg
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

Gibbage1
06-18-2004, 09:43 PM
I never read any of the tactics of the two. I figured them out by trial and error. I guess if by trial and error I employ the same tactics that aces use in WWII then it fly's like it did in WWII. If it did not, my tactics would varry wildly.

Gib

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

wayno7777
06-18-2004, 09:55 PM
I'm saying you flew it and figured out what worked the same as they did. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Dux_Wreck.jpg
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

whitetornado_1
06-18-2004, 10:02 PM
I don't know about you'se guys but some nights
online I get the upper hand or I get wiped out.
All this time using the same planes in the same missions.

The pilot makes the kill not the plane. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BennyMoore
06-18-2004, 10:08 PM
I will be perfectly happy to admit defeat and be content with the P-38 as it is if I can be convinced that it is realistic. I, too, do not wish to have an uber P-38, one that is better than the real thing was. However, at the present, I am convinced that it was better in real life. I await the real life P-38 pilot's verdict, Gibbage.

You know, at work today I was thinking about this issue for about half of the day (I have a lot of time to think). I actually was thinking of buying a copy of this game to send to a real life P-38 pilot, as you have. However, unlike you, I gave up the idea because I do not know any real life P-38 pilots.

And will one of you please fight me in my BF-109 G-2 already? I've never seen anyone do real damage with the P-38. And I noticed that of those who claimed in the other thread that the P-38 in the game does not suck, not one responded to my challenge except for one who declined, stating that I was probably a better pilot and that it would not prove anything.


Speaking of calculations and such, I redid my experiment, this time temporarily assigning a key to Noob Cockpit mode. The true airspeed still fell short of the factory specifications by fifty five kilometers per hour. While not dramatic like my erroneous claims of a two hundred and fifty one kilometers per hour deficiency, is is still significant enough to remove certain advantages that the P-38 should have.

About the other thread... On the second and third pages I was mildly rebuked for my caustic remark about American bashers. They are right; I was knee-jerking at the acutely personal attacks and ridicule at my calculating error that affected my results (which, by the way, were off by a long shot but still not completely wrong). I was additionally angered by the fact that, while my attackers had extremely strong negative views about the P-38, they offered no evidence whatsoever to support those negative views. At least I offered "anecdotal" evidence, logical arguments, and an attempt at hard data. So, I do not apologize to them for insulting them, but rather for insulting them in the wrong manner. I should have been content with curses and the like and not used the anti-American argument. Although, with the insane amount of unreasoning hatred of the P-38 that I seemed to see, I wouldn't be surprised if there were an American basher or two there.

[This message was edited by BennyMoore on Fri June 18 2004 at 09:36 PM.]

BS87
06-18-2004, 10:22 PM
Korolov, i noticed you keep the radiator set to auto. I do this sometimes, as it keeps the heat down, but i find it slows me down in level flight. Any thoughts?

WUAF_Badsight
06-18-2004, 10:24 PM
Benny give it up dude

the P-38 is one of the most flowen improperly planes online

go find WUAF_Hero ...... hes aP-38 fan & can show you just how good a DFer it can be

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BennyMoore
06-18-2004, 10:38 PM
No one will fly the P-38 against me! To make matters worse, all of the good pilots of all sorts have moved to Hyperlobby. I'm not that hot of a pilot, but it's been a long time since I've met one of those pilots that can demonstrate complete superiority over me.

Hyperlobby is spyware.

BS87
06-18-2004, 10:43 PM
Hyperlobby is not spyware, what ever gave you that idea?

WUAF_Badsight
06-18-2004, 10:58 PM
Oleg Maddox has even flowen at HL

its more stable than UBI.com

it is used by hundreds every single day for years

its just like UBI in difficulty but with more people

if it was bad the word would have been spread around

stop being so paranoid & quit with the excuses

your not green to the game , go find the P-38 experienced

there is plenty of them

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BennyMoore
06-18-2004, 11:24 PM
My firewall once blocked unauthorized activity of some sort involving Hyperlobby by name. Now, all of the computers in the house are on a local area network. The machine with the cable is the one with the firewall. My machine is the one that was running Hyperlobby.

Not only did this Hyperlobby thingy ping something through the network when I wasn't running Hyperlobby, but it pinged a machine on the network that has never had Hyperlobby on it or even accessed the internet in any way.

Edit: Private Topic (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=25510001&m=215103774&r=215103774) for you Benny.

[This message was edited by Tully__ on Fri June 18 2004 at 10:40 PM.]

Tully__
06-18-2004, 11:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:
No one will fly the P-38 against me! To make matters worse, all of the good pilots of all sorts have moved to Hyperlobby. I'm not that hot of a pilot, but it's been a long time since I've met one of those pilots that can demonstrate complete superiority over me.

Hyperlobby is spyware.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like most sites on the internet (including this forum) HyperLobby logs IP's. Of dozens (perhaps hundreds) of flightsim community members who also happen to be computer proffesionals, none have ever been able to show that the HL client in any way does anything that would qualify it as spyware. It doesn't track browsing habits, it doesn't log keystrokes other than chatlog (and you can turn that off in the hlpro.ini file), it does nothing other than the advertised function of connecting you with other gamers.

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/sig.jpg

IL2 Forums Moderator
Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm)
Tully's X-45 profile (SST drivers) (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip)

Salut
Tully

BS87
06-19-2004, 12:11 AM
HL runs a program called Aping, or Asychronus(sp?) ping. My firewall also caught this, until i realised that this is what HL uses to help ping the servers shown in the lobby. I highly doubt it pinge a computer that was no accessing the internet, and if it did, it is probably because that computer is infront of yours on the gateway to the server, thus it needs to go through the computer to connect out.

Stop beeing paranoid and using "HL is the devil" as an excuse.

Korolov
06-19-2004, 12:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BS87:
Korolov, i noticed you keep the radiator set to auto. I do this sometimes, as it keeps the heat down, but i find it slows me down in level flight. Any thoughts?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I leave it as auto for the sole fact that it makes managing the plane easier. Most of all, the difference would be minimal and the engines too hot when facing K-4s.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Trigger_88
06-19-2004, 01:02 AM
what did he do to be banned?

Tully__
06-19-2004, 01:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trigger_88:
what did he do to be banned?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who got banned?

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/sig.jpg

IL2 Forums Moderator
Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm)
Tully's X-45 profile (SST drivers) (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip)

Salut
Tully

brimigus
06-19-2004, 01:43 AM
When I fly the plane in the cockpit only servers or offline it's a death sentance ,when I fly the plane in the external view servers with cockpit on it's quite the whip cracker.I think it has to do with the fact that I cant judge my speed as easily as i can with a quick flyby view ,and tend to mach tuck the airplane way to much,but it turns quite nice with the combat flaps enabled.About my only real complaint is I thought that the 20mm was going to have a higher rate of fire.but ill get use to it,I still prefer wing cannons for snap shooting situations and have tried the under wing mounts but have had really no sucess like i've han in a FW or 109.

KIMURA
06-19-2004, 04:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Last night I was on Greater Green. Flying my P-38. I was loaded up with bombs and rockets heading for the target. I was bounced by a 109. I quickly diched everying and went after him. A diving P-47 distracted him from me long enough for me to turn the situation. I was on his tail and he could NOT shake me. I shot him down after some great combat. Then a 190 tried to pick me off. Again, I reversed the situation and shot him down. I flew over the target, straifed a few vehicles, and then decided I was feeling good and flew to there air base. I enguaged a 109 before I got there, and shot him down. He said "Whats with this Uber P-38?". Once I got over his base, I had stirred up a hornets nest. 3 109's, a 190 and a Ta-152 promply dispatched me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif But its the first time I had heard the P-38 called "Uber"

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

After reading that only one thing came in my mind: RAY BAN JOCKEY. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Kimura

OldMan____
06-19-2004, 05:29 AM
I really do not think P38 is undermodelled. I myself have been shot down more times by P38 than by La 7 !!! Now when I face a P38.. i NEVER engage it unless I feel that his pilot do not see me. That thing is pretty impressive at end of a vertical move and can accelerte quite fast.

I think most people in ALL whines ... whine because they compare its plane with the Yak an La stuff.

But I usually do not fly it.. so I can´t give a concise opinion as a pilot. But as a target, by the hell, I can really give a concise opinion.

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

Henkie_
06-19-2004, 06:39 AM
I like the P38 in AEP, and the advice for P38 players is good, but I don't know what is the conclusion from the 2 trks.

1. If you play K4 vs 4 AI P38L you can also shoot them down. (Same like P38L vs 4 AI K4). Conclusion for me: AI is stupid. Or what else?

2. In the other trk, the 109 didn't really give the P38 a really hard fight. He start in his six. He lose him from sight after the high speed dive, he stall and spin. But still get the advantage in the end.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I don't know what must be the conclusion?: if the 109K4 pilot give the P38 pilot a really hard time from the beginning on (with ammo) and make no mistakes, the P38 would be nowhere? or what?

cu http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EAF274_Henkie

crazyivan1970
06-19-2004, 07:12 AM
yeah i stalled her to avoid collision lol. Looking at the tracks is one thing, flying is another... try df`ing Korolov and see how it goes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif No, K4 wasn`t pushed to its limit, but there is not much of the limit left... G10 or G14...or G6/AS would probably show complete superiority in turnfight... K4 a little touchy tho.

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

georgeo76
06-19-2004, 08:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
try df`ing Korolov and see how it goes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll second that! Korolov is an ace. He specializes in the underdog AC like Jugs, FW 190s, and of course P-38s. If you see him on your server, do yourself a favor and join his team http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BS87
06-19-2004, 10:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
try df`ing Korolov and see how it goes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, i avoid df'ing with all *VFC. to me VFC means Very Fast Crash, as in my plane crashes missing a vital part rather quickly. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Korolov
06-19-2004, 01:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Henkie_:
I like the P38 in AEP, and the advice for P38 players is good, but I don't know what is the conclusion from the 2 trks.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The conclusion is, that while many players complain that the P-38 is no good, it really is actually a top notch fighter. After BennyMoore's post that got locked a couple days ago, I felt it was needed.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
1. If you play K4 vs 4 AI P38L you can also shoot them down. (Same like P38L vs 4 AI K4). Conclusion for me: AI is stupid. Or what else?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not the skill of the opponents that matters in the scenario; it's how many of them you face. Beating the odds is a lot more difficult than single combat. So, I ask you, have you ever tried going against 4 Ace La-7s, or 4 Ace Yak-3s, or 4 Ace K-4s? The AI is stupid, I'll give it that, but beware of them in packs.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
2. In the other trk, the 109 didn't really give the P38 a really hard fight. He start in his six. He lose him from sight after the high speed dive, he stall and spin. But still get the advantage in the end.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I don't know what must be the conclusion?: if the 109K4 pilot give the P38 pilot a really hard time from the beginning on (with ammo) and make no mistakes, the P38 would be nowhere? or what?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mostly, that track was as a demonstration of the P-38L's roll ability at speed. Because we didn't have any guns, we were kind of lax and didn't try too hard. I still think of it as a good example of how both the K-4 and the P-38 fly; it's up to you to decide how to fight them.

I don't hold the key to all the answers, which is why I encourage most of you to try everything you can think of.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Henkie_
06-19-2004, 01:56 PM
It's not important who is ace or not. All aces on HL get shot down. It's fact.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif If in the trk the 109 pilot and P38 pilot is equal skill then I just want to know what is the conclusion of the trk's?

Because first trk is against the (stupid) AI. And the second, it is showing that the 109K4 pilot is free to make mistakes and still get in the advantage vs the P38L.

edit:

oh sorry, I was to late with my answer

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ths for the conclusion.

Henkie_
06-19-2004, 02:09 PM
oh I forget to answer your question. Yes if I play ofline, (almost never) I sometimes practice for target shooting vs 4 ace AI. But it's a bit boring for me. Online is much nicer that is more realistic.

cu http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EAF274_Henkie

BennyMoore
06-19-2004, 02:23 PM
So, no one will fly the P-38 against me. Everyone is eager to state that it is not undermodelled and that it is a decent plane in the game, but no one will accept a challenge from an average BF-109 G-2 pilot. This saddens me.

Henkie_
06-19-2004, 02:40 PM
No problem BennyMoore, if there is nobody to fly against your G2, I can fly against you also if you want. Only I must disappoint you that I am not an (P38) ace. You can look for me on HL.

cu http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EAF274_Henkie

WUAF_Badsight
06-19-2004, 02:42 PM
ok Benny ill mention it to some of the HL lightening flyers seeing as your scared to come to HL and ask them yourself

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

SeaFireLIV
06-19-2004, 07:21 PM
I dunno why Benny keeps this up. Can`t he see it`s dumb? I guarantee that if he`s beat in a P38 he`ll still continue whining - it`s not gonna stop him. He`ll just make some excuse. His mind`s already made up!

crazyivan1970
06-19-2004, 07:40 PM
I`m at Hyperlobby right now Benny, step into my office http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

VFS-22_SPaRX
06-19-2004, 07:52 PM
Bump for the challenge extended. Would like a track please http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

S~

SPaRX

Korolov
06-19-2004, 07:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:
So, no one will fly the P-38 against me. Everyone is eager to state that it is not undermodelled and that it is a decent plane in the game, but no one will accept a challenge from an average BF-109 G-2 pilot. This saddens me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll gladly fight you in a P-38 vs 109G-2 match - but I only fly on hyperlobby, and most everyone else does as well. So if you want to fight against some talented Lightning drivers, thats where you have to go. If you think HL is spyware, well, you're flat out of luck.

SeaFire - you're probably right, but I've got to try! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

wayno7777
06-19-2004, 08:37 PM
posted 19-06-04 18:58
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by BennyMoore:
So, no one will fly the P-38 against me. Everyone is eager to state that it is not undermodelled and that it is a decent plane in the game, but no one will accept a challenge from an average BF-109 G-2 pilot. This saddens me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I'll gladly fight you in a P-38 vs 109G-2 match - but I only fly on hyperlobby, and most everyone else does as well. So if you want to fight against some talented Lightning drivers, thats where you have to go. If you think HL is spyware, well, you're flat out of luck.

If it happens, how can I get a copy of the track?

http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Dux_Wreck.jpg
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

crazyivan1970
06-19-2004, 08:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:
So, no one will fly the P-38 against me. Everyone is eager to state that it is not undermodelled and that it is a decent plane in the game, but no one will accept a challenge from an average BF-109 G-2 pilot. This saddens me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll gladly fight you in a P-38 vs 109G-2 match - but I only fly on hyperlobby, and most everyone else does as well. So if you want to fight against some talented Lightning drivers, thats where you have to go. If you think HL is spyware, well, you're flat out of luck.

SeaFire - you're probably right, but I've got to try! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I see dead people.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

http://www.coolwallpapers.org/movies/the_sixth_sense/thumb/320_sixth_sense_6.jpg

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

[This message was edited by crazyivan1970 on Sat June 19 2004 at 07:46 PM.]

wayno7777
06-19-2004, 08:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I see dead people.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

[/QUOTE]

That's why I'd like a copy of the track.
You're scary, Ivan. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Dux_Wreck.jpg
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

BennyMoore
06-20-2004, 04:44 PM
Well, I must admit partial defeat. My main problem is that I've been flying the J model, which I have now completely written off as hopeless.

However, after banging my head against the P-38 L for twelve hours straight (ow my neck), I think I understand what Korolov is saying. While I still feel that it is at least decently undermodelled, I am now able to deal extensive damage with it, even in one on ones. The only planes that I absolutely cannot beat when flown by decent pilots are the La-7, the Yak, the Mig-3 U, and the P-51. And the Mig and the P-51 I'm not certain that I cannot beat.

I'm now flying the P-38 exclusively. Again, I feel that it has its problems (and I await Korolov's report on the real life P-38 pilot's verdict), but it's such a joy being able to effectively fly my very favorite plane in the world. I think I'll only use the BF-109 G-2 now when I am forced to fly Axis.

In addition to flying it myself, I've been able to convince Doomsayer to give it a go as well. He, like myself, had written it off as hopeless even though it is his favorite aircraft as well. Now the two of us fly it together.

I've made a mission for the House of Odin set on the online map with four islands. The Allied side has two bases with only P-38s. The Axis have a base with all nineteen forty three and nineteen forty four German aircraft, and a base with all Japanese aircraft except for the Superfortress killer.

By the way, why are you all so adamant about not using Ubi.com? Do you think that that is spyware?

[This message was edited by BennyMoore on Sun June 20 2004 at 10:20 PM.]

SeaFireLIV
06-20-2004, 04:47 PM
sigh...

SeaFireLIV...



http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/origianlP38a.jpg
P38 sucks? .... I don`t think so!

Korolov
06-20-2004, 04:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:
Well, I must admit partial defeat. My main problem is that I've been flying the J model, which I have now completey written off as hopeless.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The J is a great plane, but it can't beat the L's ordiance and dive brakes. Also, don't think of it as defeat... Think of it as a learning experience. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I'm now flying the P-38 exclusively. Again, I feel that it has its problems (and I await Korolov's report on the real life P-38 pilot's verdict), but it's such a joy being able to effectively fly my very favorite plane in the world. I think I'll only use the G-2 now when I am forced to fly Axis.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Err, you're thinking of Gibbage. I don't know any P-38 pilots, personally. I know a few guys who have seen them in combat, though. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
If it didn't have any faults, it wouldn't be fun to fly - much like the Yak-3, which has little, if any, faults.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
By the way, why are you all so adamant about not using Ubi.com? Do you think that _that_ is spyware?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just don't like the software - most of us came from WW2 Fighters, and so we're used to using Hyperlobby for our online flying. I tried Ubi.com for a bit back in the day, but wrote it off once I found HL.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

BennyMoore
06-20-2004, 11:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
don't think of it as defeat... Think of it as a learning experience

If it didn't have any faults, it wouldn't be fun to fly - much like the Yak-3, which has little, if any, faults.

I tried Ubi.com for a bit back in the day, but wrote it off once I found HL.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I actually must thank you, as if you had not insisted that you could do damage with it, then I would not have flown it for thirty or so hours in the last two days (I'm taking this week off, woot woot). You see, I had originally set out to do tests against other pilots to prove you wrong. Duh!

I don't agree with you about the faults bit; I wouldn't want the P-38 to fly like the La-7 or Yak anymore than you do, but if it handled a bit better, the way I feel it did in real life (no torque, slightly faster, and perhaps a more effective elevator), I would not feel like it was a superplane. My last plane of choice (not favorite, mind you, but the one I flew the most effectively) was the BF-109 G-2. While it is no superplane, it has no flaws. I liked it.

Even back when I used Hyperlobby, I also used Ubi.com. Why not use both? At least would you fire it up for a few games in the House of Odin?

Even though Tully has me pretty much convinced that Hyperlobby is safe, I cannot give it a try. You see, I still live with my parents, and my dad is not allowed by the company at which he works to have the computers he takes home to be on any network that is not completely secure. He was the one who caught the traffic with Hyperlobby (or whatever it was), and he does not wish my brother and me to use it.

Why the sigh, Seafire?

Korolov
06-21-2004, 12:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:
Yes, I actually must thank you, as if you had not insisted that you could do damage with it, then I would not have flown it for thirty or so hours in the last two days (I'm taking this week off, woot woot). You see, I had originally set out to do tests against other pilots to prove you wrong. Duh!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

More converts! My work here is done. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I don't agree with you about the faults bit; I wouldn't want the P-38 to fly like the La-7 or Yak anymore than you do, but if it handled a bit better, the way I feel it did in real life (no torque, slightly faster, and perhaps a more effective elevator), I would not feel like it was a superplane.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe the reason they can't make it torqueless is a result of the engine's older stall/spin modeling, which is supposedly off. Theres only so much the engine can do. I can't comment on the speed issue or the elevator issue; neither have been a major problem for me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Even back when I used Hyperlobby, I also used Ubi.com. Why not use both? At least would you fire it up for a few games in the House of Odin?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Admittedly, I don't fly online very often. Over the weekends for VFC*COOPs, and occasionally a dogfight. Having two utilities to do the same job would be a bit cumbersome for me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Even though Tully has me pretty much convinced that Hyperlobby is safe, I cannot give it a try. You see, I still live with my parents, and my dad is not allowed by the company at which he works to have the computers he takes home to be on any network that is not completely secure. He was the one who caught the traffic with Hyperlobby (or whatever it was), and he does not wish my brother and me to use it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Understand completely - the best solution would be to have your own personal computer, but I know that can't be easily attained if you're on a tight budget. The only thing is that most of the members of this board fly on Hyperlobby; there is, of course, other software that lets you see games hosted there, but those aren't without a price.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

SeaFireLIV
06-21-2004, 02:31 AM
Good work, Korolov. The sigh, Bennymore, I dunno, getting old I guess. Didn`t expect you to see the light... Well done.

SeaFireLIV...



http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/origianlP38a.jpg
P38 sucks? .... I don`t think so!

Gwalker70
06-21-2004, 02:51 AM
I love the P38 my grandmother worked on them in ww2 ... but in FB i smoke them easy i challenge anybody ill fly a Dora or a g6AS we can bet a 100 bucks paypal.. maybe in real life they where better???????? i dont know but in FB they suck

jurinko
06-21-2004, 02:57 AM
Korolov, mate, how can you fly like that?? I mean the poor HAT view control.. press F9 and the view will stop on the spot you moved it to. Use Nview. Or even better, take the TrackIR.

Never follow P38L in a dive, he will outmaneuver you with the airbrake.. poor P-38s, their almost only advantage against late 109s..

---------------------
Letka_13/Liptow @ HL

SeaFireLIV
06-21-2004, 03:47 AM
Just a reminder to some people.
WWII was not like ancient Greece where ONE warrior challenges another warrior to single combat while everyone else stands back and watches!

P38s and similar aircraft where designed to work in teams of at least pairs and/or have support.

This "I challenge you to single combat to prove the P38 sucks!" is so NOT the way it was and completely missing the point of WWII air combat!

SeaFireLIV...



http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/origianlP38a.jpg
P38 sucks? .... I don`t think so!

[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Mon June 21 2004 at 09:02 AM.]

WOLFMondo
06-21-2004, 04:34 AM
From what I've read, P38's in the Pacific attacked in groups and stuck together in combat and lone P38's were considered very lucky if they survived. Allied piloting emphasis was on team work and co-ordination and not on the indvidual.

Hats off to the guys who can make the P38 work in ETO maps, I can see and take the advantage in the PTO situations but I can't do jack against a '44 luftwaffe plane set apart from turn and burn which always leads to faliure...guess I need to study those tracks.

Great ground pounder though.

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)
Home of WGNDedicated

Biloxi72
06-21-2004, 06:05 AM
S!
yep i love the p38 and was amazed how agile they are when flown properly by a great pilot. I have watched both of Korolovs tracks at least 10 times each trying to gather every bit of info and technique i can. These planes do work well on the cockpit on servers like WC and BoP. I am usually by my self, but i just hang out 1km above the action and look for teammates in trouble. I Zoom down and clear their 6 then back on my perch. This way if i get in trouble they can help me out. As for going against the late war german craft, they are only real trouble if they get me from above or sneak up on me. If i am above and get the drop on them i do not have many problems unless i lose patience and start turn fighting and drop in altitude too much. As long as i stick with disiplined tactics and run like hell when in a bad situation i rarely get shot down. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

One question for you other lightning jocks, what do you set your guns at for range? Technically since they are nose based convergence should not be an issue, so i have them set at 600m. Is this too long due to the current spread of the 50 cals? just looking for some thoughts on what works best for you guys. Great thread! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

BennyMoore
06-21-2004, 07:28 AM
Unless I am mistaken, the P-38's guns cannot be set at all.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
the best solution would be to have your own personal computer, but I know that can't be easily attained if you're on a tight budget.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I have my own computer, but I use my dad's cable modem. All of the computers in the house are hooked up to a local area network. My sister (Wild Goose), myself, and sometimes my brother (Auggod) all fly online with Doomsayer. When we're not in the House of Odin, we terrorize... Er, fly in Hard Mile Drive.

Oddly enough after all the talk about the P-38 Lightning being good at zoom and boom (and that's always been my own impression as well), almost all of the kills that I've made with the L model have been from turn fighting. Yes, I'm serious. No, I'm not doing it the traditional way, but I'm still burning off my energy with the dive brake in exchange for a better position. The other tactic I use is the "float around above your enemy" one. That is so fun!

The one good thing about the Lightning being such a tough plane to fly is that kills are infinitely more satisfying.

You know, after I kicked some guy's *** repeatedly in the P-38 (he was flying an FW-190 and then later a BF-109), he complained about my noob plane P-38. I couldn't believe my ears! I challenged him to beat fly the P-38 against me in a G-2. He couldn't do it. Yet he still maintains that the P-38 is a noob plane. That boggles my mind.

There are only two ways that I feel the P-38 is overmodelled. The first one is the fire extinguishers; I agree with those who say that they should not be on the P-38. I may be wrong, of course. The other thing is that I don't feel that the dive brake should make it turn so well. Actually, I feel that it should naturally turn that well because of the massive elevator. But we'll see about that when Gibbage gets back to us. But the point is that I've never read anything about the dive brake being used for anything but getting out of dives. Was it really used for assisting turns?

geetarman
06-21-2004, 08:17 AM
As someone who flies the 38 a lot - a Dora can be handled very easily once we start to turn (and trust me, most pilots start to turn at some point in these DF servers).

A G6 can also be handled in a 38, but not as easily. A G-2 is a much tougher opponent.

Franzen
06-21-2004, 09:50 AM
I've flown the P-38 twice in combat. Survived both times. The main reason I tried it was because I read a thread whining about it being undermodelled. I don't know if it is or not but I do know it's fast and agile. The airbrake really added an extra edge and saved my tail. The guns are nice but the ammo load is small.
Obviously flying it took a different approach to the regular fighters and a diiferent way of thinking. Interesting plane but not enough to get me to trade in my 109. I like it though.

Fritz Franzen

WWScout
06-21-2004, 11:28 AM
I can't quote this exactly but it goes something like this "The P-38 pilots did not feel the L model was a great improvement over the J. They had learned to use the plane without the need for divebrakes and the hydraulic assist was just a convienence. They were how ever warned not to use the dive brakes to increase their turn radius because of the deceleration it caused."

I fly the P-38 a great deal on hyperlobby and find it's a great plane. Hard to see out because of the engines but great for lining up shots. It can turn with almost all OKL fighters if you get the drop on them, If a 109 gets the drop on you, no matter what model do not try to out turn him. 190's are a different matter. In both cases follow what Korolov says. He is a killer in anything he flies and his advice is golden.

ZG77_Nagual
06-21-2004, 01:05 PM
I mostly fly the 38 or the dora. In the p38 I have very little problem with any of the 190s - or ki84s etc. 109s are the bane of my existence lately - I flew one the other night and simply cleaned up - they really are well-balanced. Offline I practice the 38J against 4 or eight k4s or g2s set to ace - cockpit on. The 109s seem to have the best ai. Using a simple bnz routine it's pretty easy to take out four - but if you mix it up a little to work on maneuvering it gets more difficult very quickly. I give them 50% fuel because they are down in about ten minutes otherwise. I kind of like the J better - the dive brake can get confusing and theres allways trim. I have my conv at 300 meters but I don't see alot of difference.

BennyMoore
06-21-2004, 01:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWScout:
They were how ever warned not to use the dive brakes to increase their turn radius because of the deceleration it caused.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oops... Well, I can see why that was the case, as doing so has gotten me killed quite a few times. But each time I was killed from doing so, it was from attempting to turn fight a vastly superior turn fighter (Yak or Mig-U or La-7). Once I bled off all of my energy without gaining a good position (because the enemy turned more quickly than I did even with divebrake), I was easy prey for the time it took to me accelerate again. I didn't make it back up to speed.

I'm sure the Lightning can zoom and boom at least decently, but I haven't tried it except for against the most slow and maneuverable aircraft. I really should, but when I'm diving at someone from a high altitude and I see an opportunity to slide onto their six with the dive brake, I can't resist. And one I do, they almost always cannot shake me, and thereafter I use slow speed handling ("floating around" above and behind them) to defeat them if they start to outturn me at low speeds.

Now bear in mind that this tactic does not work in an air battle environment, as it loses your airspeed completely; I use this for one on ones. It works well on all Focke Wulfs and most BF-109s. I need to test it on the Ki-84 as well. The two planes that I cannot do this to are the Zero and the BF-109 G-2. Oh and then there are those Russian superplanes, but I'm talking about aircraft that the P-38 had to fight in real life.

Does anyone else turn like a fool in the P-38?

Also, what is everyone's opinion of wing gunpods? I like them on one hand because they don't seem to make a real difference in speed and the added firepower is devastating. However, I do seem to notice a slight decrease in climb rate, so I don't use them very often. Only when I'm flying against very green pilots do I feel safe in using them.

Korolov
06-21-2004, 02:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gwalker70:
I love the P38 my grandmother worked on them in ww2 ... but in FB i smoke them easy i challenge anybody ill fly a Dora or a g6AS we can bet a 100 bucks paypal.. maybe in real life they where better???????? i dont know but in FB they suck<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I won't bet you on the money, but I would fight ya. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Korolov, mate, how can you fly like that?? I mean the poor HAT view control.. press F9 and the view will stop on the spot you moved it to. Use Nview. Or even better, take the TrackIR.

Never follow P38L in a dive, he will outmaneuver you with the airbrake.. poor P-38s, their almost only advantage against late 109s..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've adjusted to the way the hat works, and it works just fine for me. It may be a bit complicated at times, but it works.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
One question for you other lightning jocks, what do you set your guns at for range? Technically since they are nose based convergence should not be an issue, so i have them set at 600m. Is this too long due to the current spread of the 50 cals? just looking for some thoughts on what works best for you guys. Great thread!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I set both my cannon and gun convergence for 180 meters - in the P-38, it doesn't make much difference, but when I fly the Fw-190 or the P-47, it's handy to have. It does make the guns arc less and that can be useful, but generally the P-38's guns are tight enough as is.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Oddly enough after all the talk about the P-38 Lightning being good at zoom and boom (and that's always been my own impression as well), almost all of the kills that I've made with the L model have been from turn fighting. Yes, I'm serious. No, I'm not doing it the traditional way, but I'm still burning off my energy with the dive brake in exchange for a better position. The other tactic I use is the "float around above your enemy" one. That is so fun!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Turning is something that the P-38, despite it's large size, can do quite well. With combat flaps down, she can hold a turn long enough to bring guns to bear - and only a few seconds is all you need to hose somebody. I've learned from experience not to use the dive brakes in a turn, however. They will push a plane into a nasty snap spin that is difficult to recover from.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
You know, after I kicked some guy's *** repeatedly in the P-38 (he was flying an FW-190 and then later a BF-109), he complained about my noob plane P-38. I couldn't believe my ears! I challenged him to beat fly the P-38 against me in a G-2. He couldn't do it. Yet he still maintains that the P-38 is a noob plane. That boggles my mind.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

People will always make a excuse for poor experience and skill by blaming the plane you fly - rather than being real about it and learning from the experience. I remember when I first flew online, my butt was handed to me constantly before I finally got my first kill. One of the first things I learned was how effective BnZ works. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I can't quote this exactly but it goes something like this "The P-38 pilots did not feel the L model was a great improvement over the J. They had learned to use the plane without the need for divebrakes and the hydraulic assist was just a convienence. They were how ever warned not to use the dive brakes to increase their turn radius because of the deceleration it caused."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most likely, those pilots had built up their arm muscles to the point where they didn't need hydraulic ailerons or dive brakes; If you're strong enough, it isn't going to be a problem at all. Of course, every pilot in FB is of equal strength.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Does anyone else turn like a fool in the P-38?

Also, what is everyone's opinion of wing gunpods? I like them on one hand because they don't seem to make a real difference in speed and the added firepower is devastating. However, I do seem to notice a slight decrease in climb rate, so I don't use them very often. Only when I'm flying against very green pilots do I feel safe in using them.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oftentimes against Fw-190s and Bf-109s, I'll turn fight them. Bf-109s are the ones that are dangerous to turn with, but it can be done as long as the speed of the fight is kept up. At high altitude, in excess of 6000m, is where the P-38 can outturn both with ease.

Gunpods, I never use them. Now that the .50 cals have about 30 seconds of sustained fire, there's no need for gunpods. Just a couple of lead weights attached to the wings.

Much like the Fw-190 and P-47, the P-38 will always work better in packs than alone. Considering that the plane was designed for bomber interception, it's quite fascinating that it turned out to be a excellent fighter.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Gibbage1
06-21-2004, 04:31 PM
I have E-mailed Oleg with proof there is no extinguishers in the P-38 and he agreed. I have not checked in 2.02 if it was removed but I think it was. As for the air brakes, I had two pilot accounts who would use them in combat. I think McGuire also mentioned them. One quite was "The L's dive brake would give you a quick nose up to help get your crosshairs on the enemy, but were not good is sustained turns because they would slow you down". I will try and find my sources, but they were enough to convince Oleg and he takes a lot of convincing!!! The effect may be overmodeled, but again. I think it compensates for the elivator or torque we need to deal with. Also the brakes make you rather unstable in the new patch so you dont use it for any extended ammount of time without stalling. Just quick birst's of turnrate to get your nose on target like the pilots said.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:
There are only two ways that I feel the P-38 is overmodelled. The first one is the fire extinguishers; I agree with those who say that they should not be on the P-38. I may be wrong, of course. The other thing is that I don't feel that the dive brake should make it turn so well. Actually, I feel that it should naturally turn that well because of the massive elevator. But we'll see about that when Gibbage gets back to us. But the point is that I've never read anything about the dive brake being used for anything but getting out of dives. Was it really used for assisting turns?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

Gibbage1
06-21-2004, 04:35 PM
Yes! Most people forget that this thing was designed from the ground up to intercept bombers. Its a testimony to Kelly Johnson's design and innovation that it did so well against much lighter single engine fighters. It is the only twin-engine fighter in WWII that I know of that can handle single-engine fighters almost half its own weight!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
Considering that the plane was designed for bomber interception, it's quite fascinating that it turned out to be a excellent fighter.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

VFA-195 Snacky
06-21-2004, 05:21 PM
Very good thread fellas. I have always been a fan of the P38 (Being a Navy guy it was the only USAAF fighter that I thought should have a tailhook.lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif).
Sometimes it's hard to stay motivated about the P38 when your outnumbered and alone, but I look at it like this: If I'm at least able to bring down one of the bastards with me then it's a victory. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/b_a_presidential_first.jpg
"Navy1, Call the Ball- Roger Ball."

Korolov
06-21-2004, 05:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snacky1:
Very good thread fellas. I have always been a fan of the P38 (Being a Navy guy it was the only USAAF fighter that I thought should have a tailhook.lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since it's a twin engined fighter, you'd have to have two tailhooks! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

BS87
06-21-2004, 06:31 PM
One of my favorite things to do is hang above a furball or engagement, and when a bogie zoom climbs up, i toss em a 20mm gift at the top. Also, if they get fixated on the six of a freind, it is usually a good kill for me. However, after a while, people catch on and fly higher than you, and this makes for a nasty surprise.

109s are my favorite when i'm behind them, because the 20mm knocks things off left and right, but i hate having them on my 6 more than anything else.

Gibbage1
06-21-2004, 06:42 PM
How about a P-38 with floats and not a tailhook?

http://www.p-38online.com/float.jpg

1 was built with the tail modified to accept the foats, but the project was cancled. The floats were to be used as big fuel tanks for ferry flights to the Pacific. The P-38 would land next too a ship-tender and re-fuel. Once at base, it would ditch the floats and land normally. I think this, the F4F Wildcatfish, and the Rufe should fight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Lol

Gib

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snacky1:
Very good thread fellas. I have always been a fan of the P38 (Being a Navy guy it was the only USAAF fighter that I thought should have a tailhook.lol <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

crazyivan1970
06-21-2004, 07:01 PM
i dig that sig Koro http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

A130
06-21-2004, 07:21 PM
As I've said before, much thanks for the excellent tips. It's things like these that keep me coming here day after day.

I don't specialize in any particular plane (in fact, I'm generally incompetent with most of them); I usually fly on coops and just take whatever's available. Nor do I practice offline...while it would improve my skill level, it's not much fun for me.

The reason I bring this up is that the generally excellent tips and strategies I read in threads like this have truly and honestly saved my bacon a number of times. In particular, the first time I flew a P-38L, I got lost and wound up lonewolfing it. I located a ground target, made a few passes, and got bounced by several 109's while in a low energy state. I remembered reading about the dive brakes in a turn and gave it a shot. Long story short, the 109's still got me, but I took two with me and made the rest work pretty hard for it. Not the biggest achievement in the world, granted, but it sure made me happy. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Again, thanks for the info. I've only flown the P38 a few times since then but I've always had a blast with it. (Sometimes, quite literally.) I don't know about using one on a DF server -- never have, probably never will -- but they sure are a lot of fun in coops.

BennyMoore
06-21-2004, 07:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
I've learned from experience not to use the dive brakes in a turn, however. They will push a plane into a nasty snap spin that is difficult to recover from.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As it is now (two point one), I can use the dive brakes in a turn without spinning, but only for a very short period of time. When I am going about four hundred kilometers per hour, I engage the dive brake, maybe a two hundred and seventy degree turn, disengage the dive brake, and apply combat flaps.

If you go any slower than three hundred with dive brake, you almost certainly will spin. However, if you instantly snap off the dive brake, release controls, and give full opposite rudder, the Lightning will instantly recover. It's quite cool that way, and sometimes I deliberately spin it as a last ditch effort to make someone overshoot.

So, if I'm not turning well enough because I'm going too fast, I use dive brake. If I'm not turning well enough because I'm too slow, I use combat flaps. It's wiser to not use either and keep up your speed, but this means that you won't be able to outturn them, except for perhaps at high altitude. And if the enemy is faster than you, then your only hope is to use the dive brake.

BS87
06-21-2004, 09:11 PM
One thing i think is cool in the 38, is that if you get in a high alt spin, and cannot seem to recover, you can use the opposing engine to recover. Say you are spinning to the left, and you cannot get out of the spin. Bring the throttle on the right engine to 0%, throttle on the left to 100%, and if you want, nose it down. Usually the pulls it out of the spin within 2-3 rotations.

Korolov
06-21-2004, 09:20 PM
I'll have to try that, BS; I've tried a number of twin engine tricks, but none of them seem to work.

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

BS87
06-21-2004, 09:45 PM
Sorry i had to host this on Geocities, but its all i could do on short notice. You'll have to copy&paste.
http://www.geocities.com/bs87cr/quick0309.zip

It really helps to try and point the nose down while doing this.

Korolov
06-22-2004, 12:46 AM
I tried to do the same thing from 7500m; get it into a spin and use the engines to recover. However, the plane recovered by itself before I could mess with the engines. I tried it again and can't really tell if it works or not. How much fuel did you use?

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

FRAGAL
06-22-2004, 03:16 PM
Have to say korolev great post, tried your advice tonight about keeping the E up and using d/brake in a dive to get the extra maneuverability and i have to say i had my best sortie in a p38 ever 5 kills in a row and landed safely nice one.
Fragal

BS87
06-22-2004, 04:07 PM
I always use 50%. Generally, you have ot be in a really desperate flat spin for it to work. Sometimes it works perfectly, sometimes it doesn't work at all, its weird http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif