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S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 12:16 AM
OK, hey guys.
I was confronted currently with the opinion, that there are no "tiers" in for horno, and that "tiers" are just an excuse for bad players.
Mhh.. but i am not a bad player and still i can separate the 12 heros into Tiers.
ATTENTION! PLEASE READ THIS

This tier list does not mean:
1. Tier: Best - 2. Tier: Second best - 3. Tier: middel - 4. Tier: worst

It is more like:
1.Tier: Most over- /unbalanced/most advantages (much more than disadvantages)
2.Tier: less advantages then Tier 1 but still over- /unblanced
3.Tier: a good balance between advantage and disadvandage but still has moves which are (far) superior then Tier 4
4.Tier: overall good balanced, could maybe need some adjustments - no real buff or nerf

This Tier list does not mean that chars in the same tiers are equal, it means they are in a good spot in terms of balance.



So here is a "Tierlist"


First Tier: Warlord, Warden

Second Tier: Peacekeeper

Sub Tier (betwenn Second and Third): Lawbringer, Orochi,

Third Tier: Valkyrie, Nobushi, Shugoki, Kensei, Conquerer, Raider, Berserker

Now you are wondering why I listed them this way.
My tier list is based on the overall balance and the tools to outplay defensive play. And i do not talk about tools that every char has access like GB and feint(except conqu).

In short: This List subdivides the heros not in POWER, its more about the balance between advantages and disadvantages.

1. Warlord
... is a swiss army man and has nearly no downsides.
- Zone: Fast, wide range and 25 dmg, so you can easy kill enemies on the last bar.
- Headbutt: A fast relativly safe opener with a safe light (10 dmg).
- And has a great defense overall, with free lights or heavies.
- a running push against exhausted enemies, so he can gamble with the running move or instead just GB if the enemy tries to dodge
- and his damn wide throws

2. Warden
.... has a strong gambling tool (shoulder bash)
- a nearly instant zone (and with flicker bug 99% guarateed hit) that is quite strong (20 dmg)
- and a damn fast top light and top counter.
- aswell as double side light attack (15 + 9 = 24 - so he nearly gets the dmg of a Conqu heavy (25) for a side light

3. PK
... doesn't need an opener, because her lights are damn fast
- and with parry and gb she can spread her damn strong bleed
- also just sidedashattack (the total dmg(15dmg +15bleed) is equal to a heavy(33 dmg))
- her very fast and wide dash making her very agile

4. LB
... overall in a good place but his current shovel makes him abit to strong.
- quite fast opener, his shovel.
- kind of a "50/50" with his shovel (here i want to mention, LB's 50/50 doesn't star after the shovel, it starts already befor, if you fight a LB you are constanly aware that he could shovel you or grab you (this works because his shovel initiates really fast), and in his shovel, he has a "weak 50/50" - in short his OOS mindgame is so damn strong.
- also he has a unblockable attack to bait ppl like the raider or kensei.
- a fast and quite strong top light
- his shovel has hyperarmor, so he can shovel into chains or just attack, don't need to trade dmg and gets his kind of a 50/50
- his shovel has a damn wide magnetic range, many times when i dodge away he it still hits me (like magnetic GB on dodging enemies).
(take away the last point of the LB (hyper and magnet range) and he dropps to a good balanced char)

5. Orochi
... is in a good balance, even if he doesn't has an active opener.
There are only adjustments i would do, like riptide should be feintabel
EDIT:oh and forgot the zone especialy with the flicker bug does place him abit in overbalance. (thanks to CaTaStR0Fa for the reminder)
- (similar to PK) his combo dmg is a bit to high, working with his top second is abit to strong. (currently 17+15 - better way 17+10 or 11)

6. Valkyrie
... is in a good balance, she has a strong combo, good tools to open up defensive play, but still punishable.
Except one move that makes turtleing with her very easy - her shield tackle (jumping back and wait)

7. Nobushi
.... is aswell in a quite good balance (but here i can't say more because I do not have much experience aginst or with her)
the only thing i can say is, that her bleed is much to strong, same like PK (the only "balanced" bleed is valks shoulder pin)

8. Shugoki
... with his oni charge nerf he dropped into a quite balanced place.
There are 2 thing i would change:
- Would nerf the stamina dmg on his headbutt
- And buff his Oni charge - how? Oni charge should at least hit enemies against a wall for a free light (not heavy) because currently it is only good to cheese enemies down a ledge...

9. Kensei
... i do really think that he is in a quite good balance now. Has strong mindgames and a strong dmg. and some good tools.

10. Raider
... I do think Raider is quite balanced, yes i think so. He has a strong dmg. good tools and a very strong OOS mindgame.
The only things i would change are,
- his zone should do 30 dmg instead 25
- that he should get a free Zone out of a GB. and noooo not a free Heavy, why you think?
The same reason why shugokis Oni charge was nerfed, Raider and Shugoki have the same Heavy dmg side 40 and top 45, but already 40 is to much for a guaranteed GB heavy.
- Raider gets a Top heavy after light parry (really strong) and heavys on a wallcombe

The only reason why Raider is considered as a low tier by the most ppl, is because he is hard to master and he doesn't can't kill the last bar of an enemy to execute them after a GB.

11. Berserker
... is quite balanced. But still has a bad synergy in his moveset.
If you want to know more about it click here: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1652128-Berserker-does-need-Adjustments

Special Case:
12. Conquerer
... with his nerf he dropped from top to the special case.
- In general Conquerer is quite good, he has a opener(shildbash that isn't that strong, because it is reactable).
- has superior block (a damn strong defensive tool, he gets a free GB after a heavy block
- has dodgeblock that combos into shildbash

- The problem with the Conqu is, his dmg overall is the lowest in the game (all lights 12, all heavies 25, charged heavies 33 and 45) and his zone with 10 dmg - (but his defense is the strongest)
- He can't faint (except with full gueard stance, but his chains into a shildbash)
- Overall his strongest offensive move is the shildbash and it has no hyperarmor like warden or LB (and i don't want it to have hyper pls no)
- his moves aren't that fast
- and his charge attack - ppl see it coming when you swing the thing, charge is only safe if you block an attack befor, but that is the reason why nobody attacks a Conque when he does charge his attack.

- Currently Conqu need to rely very much on his shildbash, but his shildbash doesn't need a buff it is ok the way it is.
things i would consider as a good buff to balance him:
- Hyperarmor for his charge attacks
- he needs a better stamina management currently he needs to much stamina to do his thing.(only little changes it doesn't need much)
OR give him a REWORK overall (but this is only the emergency plan)

I do think, most of the chars are quite balanced.
More of a problem are, bugs, lags, and the overall OP defensive META that ruins the balance.

That's this current view.
What do you think?

Netcode_err_404
05-11-2017, 12:23 AM
Honestly watching a warden above pk gives me heartstrokes.

Watching orochi under LB's gives me AIDS.

The only one I agree is the 1st warlord. Rest is just random placements.

CandleInTheDark
05-11-2017, 12:32 AM
3. PK
... doesn't need an opener, because her lights are damn fast
- and with parry and gb she can spread her damn strong bleed
- also just sidedashattack (the total dmg(15dmg +15bleed) is equal to a heavy(33 dmg))

See here is what annoys me, according to some players there is no acceptable way for the peacekeeper to fight. I mean you just named her only three viable ways right there.

Throws lights? OMG light spam (even though this is not possible now and good riddance)
Feinting heavies for either heavies or light OMG spam (despite the fact it is acceptable as good gameplay for every other character)
Parry and bleed? Damn turtle.
Bleed in general (I use deep gouge, deflects, etc) you get cheap a.f., especially if they died bleeding and you didn't give them an opportunity to hit you because why would you.
Dodge attack again omg spam.

So...um, the only acceptable way is for the peacekeeper to throw free heavies? Only that has caused someone to rage quit on me too, against a warlord that blocked my dodges, I hit a single double light and a free heavy after a feint, ragequit. Whatever we do, we get salt.

As for the conqueror, the devs say he is actually top tier in terms of win/loss, they did say they might want to give him more options in the future but he is performing well all in all.

CaTaStR0Fa
05-11-2017, 12:39 AM
the only thing that i agree is warlord.Dont you dare put lb first and then valk omg.As a main lb you can counter lb so ****ing easy..only the newcomes dont know how to punish him with his shove.Valk in the other hand has everything except the op dmg.she has too many combos and this sweep is just op and she can mix it up with everything and she dosnt need dmg cause the opponet is always down from the spam sweep.Last thing orochi is more op than you guys think especialy with the flicks so in my opinion valk and orochi are above lb

S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 12:40 AM
Honestly watching a warden above pk gives me heartstrokes.

Watching orochi under LB's gives me AIDS.

The only one I agree is the 1st warlord. Rest is just random placements.

Ok, thats your opinion.

It's not random, i do explain why they are at this place and you forgot one thing, my tier list is tied to the defensive meta.
Those lines are very important to understand this list:
"Now you are wondering why I listed them this way.
My tier list is based on the overall balance and the tools to outplay defensive play. And i do not talk about tools that every char has access like GB and feint(except conqu)."

In short: This List subdivides the heros not in POWER, its more about viabilty or how "unfair" a char is. PK isn't below the Warden, and LB isn't above the Orochi.
It is more like a list for chars who need really need a change if you understand it better this way.

PK could be considert as a spacial case.
Her power lies in her speed and her punishment (most of the time its bleed) but her tools are similar to the other assassins

The warden has a strong "swiss army tool" its a strong mindegame especialy as an OOS mindgame (vortex).

About LB, just read the last line of his part it will explain all.

S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 12:44 AM
the only thing that i agree is warlord.Dont you dare put lb first and then valk omg.As a main lb you can counter lb so ****ing easy..only the newcomes dont know how to punish him with his shove.Valk in the other hand has everything except the op dmg.she has too many combos and this sweep is just op and she can mix it up with everything and she dosnt need dmg cause the opponet is always down from the spam sweep.Last thing orochi is more op than you guys think especialy with the flicks so in my opinion valk and orochi are above lb

Oh guys should i highlight the line you need to pay very good attention`?

At first, valks leg sweep is much easier to dodge then the "weak 50/50" of LB.

And orochi is strong because he is in a good balance, except one thing that i forgot ... its the flicker thanks for that :)

CaTaStR0Fa
05-11-2017, 12:53 AM
i agree with you that the sweep is easy to dodge...but the thing is that valk can mix it with everything so you cant possibly know what her next combo..she can gb you,she can hit heavy ,hit fast lights can sweep at anymoment in this combos . LB after the shove can hit light heavy or gb you nothing more.Orochi is in good balance but using the flick and za he is so strong

Netcode_err_404
05-11-2017, 12:57 AM
Ok, thats your opinion.

It's not random, i do explain why they are at this place and you forgot one thing, my tier list is tied to the defensive meta.
Those lines are very important to understand this list:
"Now you are wondering why I listed them this way.
My tier list is based on the overall balance and the tools to outplay defensive play. And i do not talk about tools that every char has access like GB and feint(except conqu)."

In short: This List subdivides the heros not in POWER, its more about viabilty or how "unfair" a char is. PK isn't below the Warden, and LB isn't above the Orochi.
It is more like a list for chars who need really need a change if you understand it better this way.

PK could be considert as a spacial case.
Her power lies in her speed and her punishment (most of the time its bleed) but her tools are similar to the other assassins

The warden has a strong "swiss army tool" its a strong mindegame especialy as an OOS mindgame (vortex).

About LB, just read the last line of his part it will explain all.

There no magnetic range, you just dodge too early

And I like to remember you, we rely on p2p.


The only magnetic attack is the demon ebrace, sometimes it just act like a black hole.

Netcode_err_404
05-11-2017, 01:02 AM
i agree with you that the sweep is easy to dodge...but the thing is that valk can mix it with everything so you cant possibly know what her next combo..she can gb you,she can hit heavy ,hit fast lights can sweep at anymoment in this combos . LB after the shove can hit light heavy or gb you nothing more.Orochi is in good balance but using the flick and za he is so strong

Orochi is not balanced.

Giving a full list of useless combo, except 2 that are better than any other combo is just unbalancing at its finest.

He has a double top light that is

1) faster than a side light
2) does double the damage

Whats the point in giving him a super powerfull top light, and useless slow side ? His top light does the same damage of a heavy, thats basically means his heavies are useless. Then he has a glitched ultra fast ZA, whic is not punishable unless you guess right with a parry.

He is far from beeing balanced honestly. Same with spamkeeper.


LB is too slow to be considered top tier, sorry. He is mediocre, poor mixups, predictable, the only pro he has its his "fake 50/50" that every assassin will avoid, when they will nerf the block > shove ( because its lame and people abuse the fact you can block all you want.) will be trash tier again Unless they really buff his speed.


His top heavy is 1000ms even my grandma could parry it.

S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 01:05 AM
See here is what annoys me, according to some players there is no acceptable way for the peacekeeper to fight. I mean you just named her only three viable ways right there.

Throws lights? OMG light spam (even though this is not possible now and good riddance)
Feinting heavies for either heavies or light OMG spam (despite the fact it is acceptable as good gameplay for every other character)
Parry and bleed? Damn turtle.
Bleed in general (I use deep gouge, deflects, etc) you get cheap a.f., especially if they died bleeding and you didn't give them an opportunity to hit you because why would you.
Dodge attack again omg spam.

So...um, the only acceptable way is for the peacekeeper to throw free heavies? Only that has caused someone to rage quit on me too, against a warlord that blocked my dodges, I hit a single double light and a free heavy after a feint, ragequit. Whatever we do, we get salt.

As for the conqueror, the devs say he is actually top tier in terms of win/loss, they did say they might want to give him more options in the future but he is performing well all in all.

Yes, indeed.
I do agree with you. The playerbase is quite unfaire against the PK.
I play PK aswell and i am a person who uses her full kit.

1. I do really mean ONLY Light spam, no deflect or other things.
2.I am not against the GB and bleed stab, i do have overall a problem with the Bleed dmg of PK and Nobushi, it is just a tiny bit to strong.
A full bleed GB of the PK are 42 dmg in total (this is more than shugokis pre-nerf free heavy after the oni charge or stronger then a free heavy for the Raider)
Also she can combo into the wall or do a OOS punish after 2 stabs, thats a damn high dmg.

Nerf bleed a little bit, and change the mentalilty of the ppl to not spam lighs but thats not possible, so dropping her second light dmg. would be a good way (currently first light 17 and second 15 dmg)
Berserkers Combo dmg drops from Light 17 to 9 and side heavy from 33 to 20. And he isn't that fast as a PK.

... People will allways ***** about a char. The salt will never end...

But with nerfing bleed abit and her combo dmg abit, I would be fine with it.
Oh and buffing her deflect.
One of my (in my opinion "good" ideas ) for a deflect buff on her is, if you deflect and hit the light she slips past the enemy and WHilE she slips past the enemy he hits him. Also the enemy AND YOU lose the aim on the PK (because you are both back to back). This would be cooler than just hyperarmor...

Oh and about, Counq, i said he is a special case, because he is currently "good" but needs to rely to much on his shild bash and his charge falls behind.

Overall i don't want big changes, i want small thing to chang to balance the chars.

Netcode_err_404
05-11-2017, 01:17 AM
Yes, indeed.
I do agree with you. The playerbase is quite unfaire against the PK.
I play PK aswell and i am a person who uses her full kit.

1. I do really mean ONLY Light spam, no deflect or other things.
2.I am not against the GB and bleed stab, i do have overall a problem with the Bleed dmg of PK and Nobushi, it is just a tiny bit to strong.
A full bleed GB of the PK are 42 dmg in total (this is more than shugokis pre-nerf free heavy after the oni charge or stronger then a free heavy for the Raider)
Also she can combo into the wall or do a OOS punish after 2 stabs, thats a damn high dmg.

Nerf bleed a little bit, and change the mentalilty of the ppl to not spam lighs but thats not possible, so dropping her second light dmg. would be a good way (currently first light 17 and second 15 dmg)
Berserkers Combo dmg drops from Light 17 to 9 and side heavy from 33 to 20. And he isn't that fast as a PK.

... People will allways ***** about a char. The salt will never end...

But with nerfing bleed abit and her combo dmg abit, I would be fine with it.
Oh and buffing her deflect.
One of my (in my opinion "good" ideas ) for a deflect buff on her is, if you deflect and hit the light she slips past the enemy and WHilE she slips past the enemy he hits him. Also the enemy AND YOU lose the aim on the PK (because you are both back to back). This would be cooler than just hyperarmor...

Oh and about, Counq, i said he is a special case, because he is currently "good" but needs to rely to much on his shild bash and his charge falls behind.

Overall i don't want big changes, i want small thing to chang to balance the chars.

Pk light spam is a problem for 2 reasons.

1) Spamming r1 is not hard, every idiot can do it
2) lights do high damage and are insane fast

So here we have 2 scenarios.

1) im clearly better than you and I parry god every attack
2) You will win even if I'm stronger just because its very hard to counter.

The rateo between how much hard is a class to use, and the effectivenes of the said class is quite important.

Pk, ignore that things, because its ultra effective, and requires little to no skill at all to do well against the majority of the opponents.

Using her full kit may require some practice, but who cares if the best way to win is pressing r1 ?

Same for warlords. Is insane how easy is WL, and how strong is.

CaTaStR0Fa
05-11-2017, 01:23 AM
Well i hate orochi too but people gonna cry so i say he is balanced... and i agree with you about lb.. lb needs faster guard stance speed and the 50/50 is lame if you know it you can punish it so easy but people dont get it

Netcode_err_404
05-11-2017, 01:28 AM
Well i hate orochi too but people gonna cry so i say he is balanced... and i agree with you about lb.. lb needs faster guard stance speed and the 50/50 is lame if you know it you can punish it so easy but people dont get it

Is not about hating him or not.

He is not balanced, because he has a list of useless comboes nobody use, because top ligh and ZA are better by far and ultra strong. He should be buffed in some aspects and nerfed in others. Theres no sense in giving him a god tier fast top light and garbage slow sides,


To consider the Lb a top tier class you eiter just started, or never started to play.

S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 01:39 AM
i agree with you that the sweep is easy to dodge...but the thing is that valk can mix it with everything so you cant possibly know what her next combo..she can gb you,she can hit heavy ,hit fast lights can sweep at anymoment in this combos . LB after the shove can hit light heavy or gb you nothing more.Orochi is in good balance but using the flick and za he is so strong
Be honest my friend, at least let her have her mix ups like every other char (except Conque - he can't feint). Those are her strong side, without this what do you think she would be?

The only real problem i have with LB is his hyperarmor in his shovel, the rest is fine ( and his magic range with the shovel, but i don't think it is a conection problem) it is inteded like this.


There no magnetic range, you just dodge too early

And I like to remember you, we rely on p2p.


The only magnetic attack is the demon ebrace, sometimes it just act like a black hole.
Yes his magnatic range exists, is the same phenomenom like shugokis.
And no, i do know when i dodge wrong. if you want i can post some vids.

Yes, i considered p2p. Aswell consol play (because i play on console)


Orochi is not balanced.

Giving a full list of useless combo, except 2 that are better than any other combo is just unbalancing at its finest.

He has a double top light that is

1) faster than a side light
2) does double the damage

Whats the point in giving him a super powerfull top light, and useless slow side ? His top light does the same damage of a heavy, thats basically means his heavies are useless. Then he has a glitched ultra fast ZA, whic is not punishable unless you guess right with a parry.

He is far from beeing balanced honestly. Same with spamkeeper.


LB is too slow to be considered top tier, sorry. He is mediocre, poor mixups, predictable, the only pro he has its his "fake 50/50" that every assassin will avoid, when they will nerf the block > shove ( because its lame and people abuse the fact you can block all you want.) will be trash tier again Unless they really buff his speed.


His top heavy is 1000ms even my grandma could parry it.

Seriously, i play orochi and i fight many of them.
1. Top light is easy blocked even if it is fastern then side lights, but ok, i agree with you that his combo dmg is abit high (same as pk) Light basic 17 and light combo 15 (thanks for this i forgot about this)
Yes in dmg the top double light overshadows side heavies in dmg but not the top, and heavies are still usefull to attack when the opponent do not expect it or to feint.

2. And nooow i need to disagree with you, because every idiot waits for top lights you can throw unexpected sidelides (thats what i am doing and it works well)
Dodge forward but delay abit and hit from the side with a light, works good because most players think there will come a dodge attack or a top light.

3.The only big problem Orochi has is the zoneflicker bug and zone coming out to fast, but this is should be fixed with flicker bug.
Yes Orochi is in some ways similar to the PK, you know why? because they are assassins - assassins are build quite same in dmg and some other things.

4. here Again PLS DO READ THE MEANING OF THIS TIER LIST. it is not about POWER and i do not consider LB as a "TOP TIER"
I do not talk about LBs block > shove the only thing needs to really go is his hyperarmor in shovel.
Yes he is medicore and this is quite balanced.

Ok i need to rewrite the list abit. thanks :)

A side question, what chars you are playing more frequent ?
I do MAIN Berserker, but i also play Valk, orochi, Raider, PK, Shugoki, Kensei, and Conqu - i dropped warden because it isn't my type and a friend of mine mains him (most time we brawl, so no double chars), I leard warlord and LB but do not play them, only about Nobushi i don't know much)

Netcode_err_404
05-11-2017, 01:50 AM
Be honest my friend, at least let her have her mix ups like every other char (except Conque - he can't feint). Those are her strong side, without this what do you think she would be?

The only real problem i have with LB is his hyperarmor in his shovel, the rest is fine ( and his magic range with the shovel, but i don't think it is a conection problem) it is inteded like this.


Yes his magnatic range exists, is the same phenomenom like shugokis.
And no, i do know when i dodge wrong. if you want i can post some vids.

Yes, i considered p2p. Aswell consol play (because i play on console)



Seriously, i play orochi and i fight many of them.
1. Top light is easy blocked even if it is fastern then side lights, but ok, i agree with you that his combo dmg is abit high (same as pk) Light basic 17 and light combo 15 (thanks for this i forgot about this)
Yes in dmg the top double light overshadows side heavies in dmg but not the top, and heavies are still usefull to attack when the opponent do not expect it or to feint.

2. And nooow i need to disagree with you, because every idiot waits for top lights you can throw unexpected sidelides (thats what i am doing and it works well)
Dodge forward but delay abit and hit from the side with a light, works good because most players think there will come a dodge attack or a top light.

3.The only big problem Orochi has is the zoneflicker bug and zone coming out to fast, but this is should be fixed with flicker bug.
Yes Orochi is in some ways similar to the PK, you know why? because they are assassins - assassins are build quite same in dmg and some other things.

4. here Again PLS DO READ THE MEANING OF THIS TIER LIST. it is not about POWER and i do not consider LB as a "TOP TIER"
I do not talk about LBs block > shove the only thing needs to really go is his hyperarmor in shovel.
Yes he is medicore and this is quite balanced.

Ok i need to rewrite the list abit. thanks :)

A side question, what chars you are playing more frequent ?
I do MAIN Berserker, but i also play Valk, orochi, Raider, PK, Shugoki, Kensei, and Conqu - i dropped warden because it isn't my type and a friend of mine mains him (most time we brawl, so no double chars), I leard warlord and LB but do not play them, only about Nobushi i don't know much)

Not all classes have side attacks.

You want hyper armor on shove gone ? Not a chance, unless you make it ultra rapid like the headbutt. Right now shove is dodged by everyone.

I play LB, and kensei mainly. Then i play sometimes with raider and shugoki.,

The only real problem with Lb is the"50/50" ( which is not, at least not completely) after a block. And just because ubisoft do not want cooldowns on this game, and people can abuse it. Otherwise is aweak class, Slow and predictable. Classified as "disabler", when he is not.

S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 02:07 AM
Not all classes have side attacks.

You want hyper armor on shove gone ? Not a chance, unless you make it ultra rapid like the headbutt. Right now shove is dodged by everyone.

I play LB, and kensei mainly. Then i play sometimes with raider and shugoki.,

The only real problem with Lb is the"50/50" ( which is not, at least not completely) after a block. And just because ubisoft do not want cooldowns on this game, and people can abuse it. Otherwise is aweak class, Slow and predictable. Classified as "disabler", when he is not.

If you misunderstood me, i do not talk about side dash attack, i actually mean normal side lights, every class has side lights.
Also i use combos with orochi, i just don't use them that much to not be that predictable.
Also his OOS punish with with 2 his 2 top heavy chain is strong (55 dmg) his max punish.

The thing is, the way you discribe orochi is nearly the same way you can look at all classes (except zone flicker).

I agree headbutt is abit to good (thats why Warlord is one of the 2 top in my list)
Actually the headbutt is just to safe (you can't even GB him after you dodged headbutt) and gives free dmg (even if its only 10 dmg)
It is dodgable i do dodge it on consol but shovel is nearly same as hard to dodge as headbutt.
Sure if the headbutt or the shovel comes in a moment i know it comes, i can dodge both easy, but the art in this game to be good lies in the abililty to be unpredictable.

The "50/50" i do think is ok.

S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 02:10 AM
Pk light spam is a problem for 2 reasons.

1) Spamming r1 is not hard, every idiot can do it
2) lights do high damage and are insane fast

So here we have 2 scenarios.

1) im clearly better than you and I parry god every attack
2) You will win even if I'm stronger just because its very hard to counter.

The rateo between how much hard is a class to use, and the effectivenes of the said class is quite important.

Pk, ignore that things, because its ultra effective, and requires little to no skill at all to do well against the majority of the opponents.

Using her full kit may require some practice, but who cares if the best way to win is pressing r1 ?

Same for warlords. Is insane how easy is WL, and how strong is.

Yep, thats why both classes are In tier 1 and 2 in my list :)

cragar212
05-11-2017, 02:19 AM
Every competitive tournament played disagrees with your personal tier list.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion

S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 02:24 AM
Every competitive tournament played disagrees with your personal tier list.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion

Talking for everyone is abit farfetched.
But ok.

Pls, could you read the first lines of the thread again?

I edited it and put in an explanation in, how to understand this "tier list"

Netcode_err_404
05-11-2017, 03:28 AM
If you misunderstood me, i do not talk about side dash attack, i actually mean normal side lights, every class has side lights.
Also i use combos with orochi, i just don't use them that much to not be that predictable.
Also his OOS punish with with 2 his 2 top heavy chain is strong (55 dmg) his max punish.

The thing is, the way you discribe orochi is nearly the same way you can look at all classes (except zone flicker).

I agree headbutt is abit to good (thats why Warlord is one of the 2 top in my list)
Actually the headbutt is just to safe (you can't even GB him after you dodged headbutt) and gives free dmg (even if its only 10 dmg)
It is dodgable i do dodge it on consol but shovel is nearly same as hard to dodge as headbutt.
Sure if the headbutt or the shovel comes in a moment i know it comes, i can dodge both easy, but the art in this game to be good lies in the abililty to be unpredictable.

The "50/50" i do think is ok.

On pc shove is dodgeable by everyone. even by shogokis

S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 03:41 AM
On pc shove is dodgeable by everyone. even by shogokis

Seriously, i can dodge headbutts and shovel with shugoki aswell on consol, bit with shugoki i don't really need to dodge them. I also dodge valk spear sweep with shugoki.

But if some plays good and makes his moves much harder to predict it his - i do see many good youtubers who are still getting hit by shovel and headbutts.

Let me explain it with the Conquerer, his shildbash got nerfed really hard, it is really predictable, becaus you need to dodge first to use it.
But still manage to hit with shild bash many times, because i play smart, i bash when they do not count with it or shortly after they dodge.

Oh and just a friendly advice: Try to learn as much heros as possible, it will help you to understand the way those fight it makes, it easier for you to fight them.
You can also learn new ways to play your mains.

Cyb3rR4ptor
05-11-2017, 05:20 AM
Not a bad list. But i think it loses context as the list goes down and need better explanation. You offered details and data as how and why the top on the list where there. But as you go down the list you start losing data. Orochi, Valk, Nobushi and Kensei are basically the same explanations. "these are balanced as they are <insert their only viable use or gimmick here>. And that actually is the the TLDR reason they are there. There needs to be more context and details on why each character is there, Pros and Cons. I main Nobushi, and i can provide a lot of reasons why she's there. But they would fall under the same category as why many of the cast like Kensei and Raider are also down there with her. Lack of utility. Sure you can deal damage and do mixups with them but all characters can do that. While the rest of the cast can do much more, and have more options, specially when opening up characters (warden and warlord have fast instant unblockables to start the fight) and they can mix up all around these. PK like you said doesn't need one for reasons you explained, and now LB has his shove to initiate the offensive, even though he can't capitalize on damage as well as Warlord or Warden but still can initiate a considerable offensive. The rest of the cast . (Nob, Ken, Raider, Orochi) have less to work with in order to open up, and some of these have huge holes on their defensive game (like Nobushi and Raider having slow guard stance speed). The only one i find truly balance is Valk, not too powerful but not too weak, this is because she doesn't have a strong initiator attack like warden or warlord (thank god for that) if she did she would be way more on top. You need to be good at initating something with valk so you can actually start your sweeps, rams, gb etc. But like i said. The list needs more explanation on the characters.

Now what I would like to see is a proper match up thread. Who has the odds against who, also providing data on which map site their in.

cragar212
05-11-2017, 05:28 AM
Nm I posted it elsewhere

Maxime_Qc-
05-11-2017, 05:42 AM
Honestly watching a warden above pk gives me heartstrokes.

Watching orochi under LB's gives me AIDS.

The only one I agree is the 1st warlord. Rest is just random placements.



another pk hater !!!

well sorry but it's true !!! a good pk will never beat a good warden


first of all... warden have that ''no bleed feats'

2 :warden have a healing feats

3 everytime warden feint topside heavy i had the reflex to dodge + heavy ... he still got time to cancel switch guard to the side and parry .. wtf ... now throwing a zone cancel ... no choice ...it discouraged them from feinting too much

4 pk light speed as been so nerrfed that it can now be parry too !!

5 don'T even think to guardbreak him .. after a guardbreak all you can do is 3 stab .. again .. warden can't bleed ...theres that heavy feint light tha you can land to .. but the light make bleeding damage ... USELESS ...throw a heavy ... he will have the time to block it !!

6 step forward + heavy warden counter hit automatic !

7 deflect ? .. how can you deflect a turtle/feinter

8 if he shoulder bash i dodge + heavy ..but after he get it he will just cancel shoulder bash to guardbreak while i dodge ...so

only way to beat a warden ...get fully buffed ...cursed him never throw more than 2 light dodge back... throw some zone cancel dodge back ...pissed him off like that to force him to stop using the turtle meta ..and then when he decided himself to get more offensive i can deflect/counter ...sometime parry but it can still be a bit dangerous to try to parry because you never know when he will start back to feint/bait for the parry


and when i think about it ... some very good warden (sometime nobushi) manage to parry my zone too ...so...

ect ect

so for everyone who can't stand pk anymore .. get good and master the warden !!


also i think

Lawbringer :definetely not sub tier ... top tier !! ...he don't give a **** about people turtleing...

nobushi top tier : because i seen some nobushi that where really untouchable ... ( a parry = guarantee guardbreak=guarantee top heavy ... if out of stamina =guarantee guarbreak + push you on the ground + guarantee top heavy take out half of your life ONE SHOT... i think she got the biggest punish of all ... + the heavy bleed ... + zone cancel ,dodge heavy, viper retreat combo is destructive !!...her light atk are VERY FAST + make bleed ! ect ect )


berzerker with the new uninteruptible stance is now very good ... even he got deflected HEAD CRUSHER IS GUARANTEE .. probably the stronger attack of all after the shugoki charged heavy.... if dmg buffed or berzerk feat are on it one shot anyone !....

deflect=guardbreak ... guardbreak push to wall top heavy = destructive !!!

so would put it second tier

valkirye as an assassin is easy to couter but still so damn fkn fast and it seem like she never out of stamina !!..she can sweep or shield bash to throw you on the ground again and again so easyly ..making a HUUUUGE DIFFERENCE IN A TEAM FIGHT deffinitely not last tier !!at least sub tier

Kensei :....very equilibrate one of the best feinter ! ..can cancel unblockable atk to guardbreak or sidelight after guardbreak push on the wall +top heavy (destructive ) ...sub tier not third

shugoki ... complete **** in 1v1 but most usefull one in a team ......still would leave it third tier xD

raider deffinetely need a buff .. but his the one who hit the harder (if he can actually find a way to land his heavy)

Ex__Machina
05-11-2017, 06:18 AM
jesus i disagree with so many things i don't even know where to start

lb is tier 1 along w/ warden and wl. tons of damage, unblockable w/ guaranteed damage or if you dodge a free gb. his top lights are fast. his combos are very powerful. his unblockable is uninterruptible. he has that dash throw that can throw you off a ledge half way across a map and he has powerful punish options off parry and gb

peacekeeper might be a tier 2 character if you're talking about consoles but on pc she's pretty ****ty tbh. her lights can easily be blocked mid/high level and her lights get parried frequently in high tier. her zone is also very predictable and easily dealt w/. her side heavy is almost a guaranteed parry unless you happen to be doing it while they are attacking but if you're jumping around hoping for that chance you'll be gb. if you miss a gb she has a huge window where you can get a guaranteed gb on her. and her deflect is garbage

you need to place berserker in his own tier and certainly not in a tier w/ raider who can open with a hard hitting unblockable he can use for punishment and/or mixups. the rest of them offer so much in their own way that any sensible person would see them w/out having to say anything

Herbstlicht
05-11-2017, 09:23 AM
100% disagree. Well, not 100%, but still much though. Raider and valk on the same tier? Thats a joke. Conq something special? Nobushis bleed too strong? I only agree on warlord, warden and pk. But still nice to bring it up to discussion, we needn't always agree on everything ˆˆ

vgrimr_J
05-11-2017, 09:53 AM
For the millionth time LB doesnt have 50/50 who wast this guy who implemented this thought in your heads? brainwashed by a streamer? youtuber? you can defelct the "50/50" you can dodge it and you have plenty of time to counter GB it after dodge becauce it comes far away.

bananaflow2017
05-11-2017, 10:19 AM
another pk hater !!!

well sorry but it's true !!! a good pk will never beat a good warden


first of all... warden have that ''no bleed feats'

2 :warden have a healing feats

3 everytime warden feint topside heavy i had the reflex to dodge + heavy ... he still got time to cancel switch guard to the side and parry .. wtf ... now throwing a zone cancel ... no choice ...it discouraged them from feinting too much

4 pk light speed as been so nerrfed that it can now be parry too !!

5 don'T even think to guardbreak him .. after a guardbreak all you can do is 3 stab .. again .. warden can't bleed ...theres that heavy feint light tha you can land to .. but the light make bleeding damage ... USELESS ...throw a heavy ... he will have the time to block it !!

6 step forward + heavy warden counter hit automatic !

7 deflect ? .. how can you deflect a turtle/feinter

8 if he shoulder bash i dodge + heavy ..but after he get it he will just cancel shoulder bash to guardbreak while i dodge ...so

only way to beat a warden ...get fully buffed ...cursed him never throw more than 2 light dodge back... throw some zone cancel dodge back ...pissed him off like that to force him to stop using the turtle meta ..and then when he decided himself to get more offensive i can deflect/counter ...sometime parry but it can still be a bit dangerous to try to parry because you never know when he will start back to feint/bait for the parry


and when i think about it ... some very good warden (sometime nobushi) manage to parry my zone too ...so...

ect ect

so for everyone who can't stand pk anymore .. get good and master the warden !!


also i think

Lawbringer :definetely not sub tier ... top tier !! ...he don't give a **** about people turtleing...

nobushi top tier : because i seen some nobushi that where really untouchable ... ( a parry = guarantee guardbreak=guarantee top heavy ... if out of stamina =guarantee guarbreak + push you on the ground + guarantee top heavy take out half of your life ONE SHOT... i think she got the biggest punish of all ... + the heavy bleed ... + zone cancel ,dodge heavy, viper retreat combo is destructive !!...her light atk are VERY FAST + make bleed ! ect ect )


berzerker with the new uninteruptible stance is now very good ... even he got deflected HEAD CRUSHER IS GUARANTEE .. probably the stronger attack of all after the shugoki charged heavy.... if dmg buffed or berzerk feat are on it one shot anyone !....

deflect=guardbreak ... guardbreak push to wall top heavy = destructive !!!

so would put it second tier

valkirye as an assassin is easy to couter but still so damn fkn fast and it seem like she never out of stamina !!..she can sweep or shield bash to throw you on the ground again and again so easyly ..making a HUUUUGE DIFFERENCE IN A TEAM FIGHT deffinitely not last tier !!at least sub tier

Kensei :....very equilibrate one of the best feinter ! ..can cancel unblockable atk to guardbreak or sidelight after guardbreak push on the wall +top heavy (destructive ) ...sub tier not third

shugoki ... complete **** in 1v1 but most usefull one in a team ......still would leave it third tier xD

raider deffinetely need a buff .. but his the one who hit the harder (if he can actually find a way to land his heavy)

You only have feats in 4v4 and they are mostly turned of in tourneys so this feats arguments are invalid.
Bit Yes warden is just op. Same as wl.
But pk is still really strong. It depends imo on ur Plattform. I Play in Xbox and this little Girl is a beast.
I Main valk and i have to say: u have no Tool to Open really Good turtles and Everything is punished with a gb or a top heavy...

CoyoteXStarrk
05-11-2017, 11:02 AM
Valkyrie is top tier.


Anyone who says otherwise has no idea what they are talking about.

Netcode_err_404
05-11-2017, 11:19 AM
another pk hater !!!

well sorry but it's true !!! a good pk will never beat a good warden


first of all... warden have that ''no bleed feats'

2 :warden have a healing feats

3 everytime warden feint topside heavy i had the reflex to dodge + heavy ... he still got time to cancel switch guard to the side and parry .. wtf ... now throwing a zone cancel ... no choice ...it discouraged them from feinting too much

4 pk light speed as been so nerrfed that it can now be parry too !!

5 don'T even think to guardbreak him .. after a guardbreak all you can do is 3 stab .. again .. warden can't bleed ...theres that heavy feint light tha you can land to .. but the light make bleeding damage ... USELESS ...throw a heavy ... he will have the time to block it !!

6 step forward + heavy warden counter hit automatic !

7 deflect ? .. how can you deflect a turtle/feinter

8 if he shoulder bash i dodge + heavy ..but after he get it he will just cancel shoulder bash to guardbreak while i dodge ...so

only way to beat a warden ...get fully buffed ...cursed him never throw more than 2 light dodge back... throw some zone cancel dodge back ...pissed him off like that to force him to stop using the turtle meta ..and then when he decided himself to get more offensive i can deflect/counter ...sometime parry but it can still be a bit dangerous to try to parry because you never know when he will start back to feint/bait for the parry


and when i think about it ... some very good warden (sometime nobushi) manage to parry my zone too ...so...

ect ect

so for everyone who can't stand pk anymore .. get good and master the warden !!


also i think

Lawbringer :definetely not sub tier ... top tier !! ...he don't give a **** about people turtleing...

nobushi top tier : because i seen some nobushi that where really untouchable ... ( a parry = guarantee guardbreak=guarantee top heavy ... if out of stamina =guarantee guarbreak + push you on the ground + guarantee top heavy take out half of your life ONE SHOT... i think she got the biggest punish of all ... + the heavy bleed ... + zone cancel ,dodge heavy, viper retreat combo is destructive !!...her light atk are VERY FAST + make bleed ! ect ect )


berzerker with the new uninteruptible stance is now very good ... even he got deflected HEAD CRUSHER IS GUARANTEE .. probably the stronger attack of all after the shugoki charged heavy.... if dmg buffed or berzerk feat are on it one shot anyone !....

deflect=guardbreak ... guardbreak push to wall top heavy = destructive !!!

so would put it second tier

valkirye as an assassin is easy to couter but still so damn fkn fast and it seem like she never out of stamina !!..she can sweep or shield bash to throw you on the ground again and again so easyly ..making a HUUUUGE DIFFERENCE IN A TEAM FIGHT deffinitely not last tier !!at least sub tier

Kensei :....very equilibrate one of the best feinter ! ..can cancel unblockable atk to guardbreak or sidelight after guardbreak push on the wall +top heavy (destructive ) ...sub tier not third

shugoki ... complete **** in 1v1 but most usefull one in a team ......still would leave it third tier xD

raider deffinetely need a buff .. but his the one who hit the harder (if he can actually find a way to land his heavy)
We are really talking about feats ? The most broken features in the game ?LOL

Lb doesn't any guaranteed. Most of the shove lights can be dodged or deflected by any competent assassin.

The opnly true 50/50 in the game are warden one and valkyre one. Not to mention as warden, Lb, warlord you can dodge the shove and start immediately a shoulder bash, headbutt. And if the class have any dodge attack its gg.

Nobushi top tier ? LOL

Warden better than pk ? Yeah, sure LOL

Only the warlord is better, just because he is completely broken to say the least. Has basically ALL and doesn't sacrifice nothing.


Valkyrie is top tier.


Anyone who says otherwise has no idea what they are talking about.

Precisely. valkyre medium tier ? LOL

S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 11:41 AM
At first i wann a say... sometimes people make me cry, nearly everyone of you does not read EVERYTHING, especialy the highlighted first lines.
*sigh* I mean this words her:
ATTENTION! PLEASE READ THIS

This tier list does not mean:
1. Tier: Best - 2. Tier: Second best - 3. Tier: middel - 4. Tier: worst

It is more like:
1.Tier: Most over- /unbalanced/most advantages (more than disadvantages)
2.Tier: less advantages then Tier 1 but still over- /unblanced
3.Tier: a good balance between advantage and disadvandage but still has moves which are (far) superior then Tier 4
4.Tier: overall good balanced, could maybe need some adjustments - no real buff or nerf

This Tier list does not mean that chars in the same tiers are equal, it means they are in a good spot in terms of balance.




Not a bad list. But i think it loses context as the list goes down and need better explanation. You offered details and data as how and why the top on the list where there. But as you go down the list you start losing data. Orochi, Valk, Nobushi and Kensei are basically the same explanations. "these are balanced as they are <insert their only viable use or gimmick here>. And that actually is the the TLDR reason they are there. There needs to be more context and details on why each character is there, Pros and Cons. I main Nobushi, and i can provide a lot of reasons why she's there. But they would fall under the same category as why many of the cast like Kensei and Raider are also down there with her. Lack of utility. Sure you can deal damage and do mixups with them but all characters can do that. While the rest of the cast can do much more, and have more options, specially when opening up characters (warden and warlord have fast instant unblockables to start the fight) and they can mix up all around these. PK like you said doesn't need one for reasons you explained, and now LB has his shove to initiate the offensive, even though he can't capitalize on damage as well as Warlord or Warden but still can initiate a considerable offensive. The rest of the cast . (Nob, Ken, Raider, Orochi) have less to work with in order to open up, and some of these have huge holes on their defensive game (like Nobushi and Raider having slow guard stance speed). The only one i find truly balance is Valk, not too powerful but not too weak, this is because she doesn't have a strong initiator attack like warden or warlord (thank god for that) if she did she would be way more on top. You need to be good at initating something with valk so you can actually start your sweeps, rams, gb etc. But like i said. The list needs more explanation on the characters.

Now what I would like to see is a proper match up thread. Who has the odds against who, also providing data on which map site their in.

At first i wanna say thanks, for reading my thread well.
Second, i am sorry that i losing context on the ongoing chars, this thread was just a spontaneous idea (like i said it in the first lines befor the "attention!! "
It wasn't really meant to be a full explaination on exactly what those advanataged and disadvantages they have, it was just something to give a good discussion topic and maybe collect some "data" on chars and advantages/disadvantages i am not aware.
But after the first 2 pages of comments, i realized that i already made a good base for a advantages/disadvantages thread.

And aswell i am only a human, i started this thread at 11 PM on my time and was busy with answering the comments and making a good explaination(who nobody reads) for ppl to understand what kind of "Tierlist" this is, until it was 3 AM, i need to sleep aswell :) .

I do main Berserker and play every char (except warden, warlord, LB, nobushi - here i have learned warden, warlord and LB - but the only one i don't know much about is Nobushi)
What i wanna say, i can provide many infos out of experience but i can't find and point out all on my own. Thats why Answers like yours a big help for this thread.

I will try to augment my thread :) thanks for you answer.


jesus i disagree with so many things i don't even know where to start

lb is tier 1 along w/ warden and wl. tons of damage, unblockable w/ guaranteed damage or if you dodge a free gb. his top lights are fast. his combos are very powerful. his unblockable is uninterruptible. he has that dash throw that can throw you off a ledge half way across a map and he has powerful punish options off parry and gb

peacekeeper might be a tier 2 character if you're talking about consoles but on pc she's pretty ****ty tbh. her lights can easily be blocked mid/high level and her lights get parried frequently in high tier. her zone is also very predictable and easily dealt w/. her side heavy is almost a guaranteed parry unless you happen to be doing it while they are attacking but if you're jumping around hoping for that chance you'll be gb. if you miss a gb she has a huge window where you can get a guaranteed gb on her. and her deflect is garbage

you need to place berserker in his own tier and certainly not in a tier w/ raider who can open with a hard hitting unblockable he can use for punishment and/or mixups. the rest of them offer so much in their own way that any sensible person would see them w/out having to say anything

Pls, go to the start and read again th "ATTENTION!! " part.
It will explain you how this "Tier" list is meant.

And about Berserker, i am VERY aware where to place him and where not - i do main him and i am above the average, skillwise. (and please don't look up something like scores K/D etc, this is nonsense)


100% disagree. Well, not 100%, but still much though. Raider and valk on the same tier? Thats a joke. Conq something special? Nobushis bleed too strong? I only agree on warlord, warden and pk. But still nice to bring it up to discussion, we needn't always agree on everything ˆˆ

Yes, this thread is meant as a discussion base, and yes eveyone has other experiences with all chars so we can never 100% agree on all chars :) you got this well.
But what part you misunderstood is how this tierlist is meant.
It is not about, what char is in the same tier or not.
Valk is in my "tier 3" because i consider her well balanced in terms of, having good tools and mix ups to compete with every other Hero but at the same time she has some disadvantages, like her spear sweep: it is an effective tool but can be dodged and punished pretty well.

Raider has a strong basic dmg, his pommel strike is a strong feinting tool and stamina drain tool at the same time (and kind of an opener), his zone is a good bait especialy on OOS(out of stamina) mindgames, he has the second strongest OOS punish. But he has downsides aswell, his main opener (zone) drains much stamina, so he is limited in using it and can easy get OOS himself, slower guardstance and no safe attack after a GB to finish of enemies. And his GB punish against a wall is hard to learn and use but it rewards well.

My Tier list does not mean that chars in the same tiers are equal, it means they are in a good spot in terms of balance.

Also about Conqu - i already explaint why he is a "special case" - because he is the most defesive hero with nearly no real offensive side.


For the millionth time LB doesnt have 50/50 who wast this guy who implemented this thought in your heads? brainwashed by a streamer? youtuber? you can defelct the "50/50" you can dodge it and you have plenty of time to counter GB it after dodge becauce it comes far away.

.... Again, please read then write, go back to the LB part and read all..... Gosh sometimes i think you guys only take a look at the ranking and go bullsh-it mode...

No, i came up with the "50/50" for my self, i say that LBs pre-shovel and post-shovel do feel like kind of "50/50" 's. I am not the kind of person who blindly follows the words of some ppl who are popular.
And at the same time you are doing the same what you imply i do.
You blindly spread the words of those youtuber, streamer etc. "you can deflect this "50/50" "you can dodge it" from what youtuber you come with this opinion? Syhper? PraisTheSun? I know the videos and there are holes in their arguments (more in syhpers).
About the "counter GB" i do not understand what you mean. GB lawringer after you dodge shovel (punish) or actually countering a GB after the Lawbringer shovel>GBs you?

Hey, i can dodge Wardens shoulderbash aswell when i see it coming and isn't right in from of my face, same like LB.
You can roll away from Wardens "50/50", same as LB. And still warden has a 50/50.... same as LB.
Even Devs said it is a 50/50.

S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 11:51 AM
Valkyrie is top tier.


Anyone who says otherwise has no idea what they are talking about.

*sigh* again ....
ATTENTION! PLEASE READ THIS

This tier list does not mean:
1. Tier: Best - 2. Tier: Second best - 3. Tier: middel - 4. Tier: worst

It is more like:
1.Tier: Most over- /unbalanced/most advantages (more than disadvantages)
2.Tier: less advantages then Tier 1 but still over- /unblanced
3.Tier: a good balance between advantage and disadvandage but still has moves which are (far) superior then Tier 4
4.Tier: overall good balanced, could maybe need some adjustments - no real buff or nerf

This Tier list does not mean that chars in the same tiers are equal, it means they are in a good spot in terms of balance.



Yes, maybe for you she is top tier, that is ok. But try to not see her from you personal view.

kanuzira
05-11-2017, 12:12 PM
Valk has her ****ty spam
nobushi has way to strong revenge attacks
shugoki had the 6 seconds hyper armor

I think you just put them at random after warlord

S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 12:22 PM
Valk has her ****ty spam
nobushi has way to strong revenge attacks
shugoki had the 6 seconds hyper armor

I think you just put them at random after warlord

1. every char has "spam" attacks
2. i do not consider things like revenge or feats in here - you are wrong with this part of your post in this thread
3. Yes but shugoki needs his armor, he is based around it - this armor IS the Shugoki.
Belive me Shugoki is fine. Just learn to fight them.

And i think you doesn't understand the meaning of this list. Go back to the start and read the "Attention" part ....

cragar212
05-11-2017, 12:35 PM
*sigh* again ....
ATTENTION! PLEASE READ THIS

This tier list does not mean:
1. Tier: Best - 2. Tier: Second best - 3. Tier: middel - 4. Tier: worst

It is more like:
1.Tier: Most over- /unbalanced/most advantages (more than disadvantages)
2.Tier: less advantages then Tier 1 but still over- /unblanced
3.Tier: a good balance between advantage and disadvandage but still has moves which are (far) superior then Tier 4
4.Tier: overall good balanced, could maybe need some adjustments - no real buff or nerf

This Tier list does not mean that chars in the same tiers are equal, it means they are in a good spot in terms of balance.



Yes, maybe for you she is top tier, that is ok. But try to not see her from you personal view.

Everything you are posting is from your personal view.

Derp?

S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 01:13 PM
Everything you are posting is from your personal view.

Derp?

Mh.. not really....

In the main thread, i try to be objectively as much as possible, and still binde my experiences and opinions of many other persons into it.

A big part of my answers, do contain my personal view, but on the comment i anserwer, so if someone like you just wanna troll.
I have no reason to stay objectively, when I answer to ppl who, troll or do not understand the meaning of this thread.

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 01:20 PM
another pk hater !!!

well sorry but it's true !!! a good pk will never beat a good warden


first of all... warden have that ''no bleed feats'

2 :warden have a healing feats

3 everytime warden feint topside heavy i had the reflex to dodge + heavy ... he still got time to cancel switch guard to the side and parry .. wtf ... now throwing a zone cancel ... no choice ...it discouraged them from feinting too much

4 pk light speed as been so nerrfed that it can now be parry too !!

5 don'T even think to guardbreak him .. after a guardbreak all you can do is 3 stab .. again .. warden can't bleed ...theres that heavy feint light tha you can land to .. but the light make bleeding damage ... USELESS ...throw a heavy ... he will have the time to block it !!

6 step forward + heavy warden counter hit automatic !

7 deflect ? .. how can you deflect a turtle/feinter

8 if he shoulder bash i dodge + heavy ..but after he get it he will just cancel shoulder bash to guardbreak while i dodge ...so

only way to beat a warden ...get fully buffed ...cursed him never throw more than 2 light dodge back... throw some zone cancel dodge back ...pissed him off like that to force him to stop using the turtle meta ..and then when he decided himself to get more offensive i can deflect/counter ...sometime parry but it can still be a bit dangerous to try to parry because you never know when he will start back to feint/bait for the parry


and when i think about it ... some very good warden (sometime nobushi) manage to parry my zone too ...so...

ect ect

so for everyone who can't stand pk anymore .. get good and master the warden !!


also i think

Lawbringer :definetely not sub tier ... top tier !! ...he don't give a **** about people turtleing...

nobushi top tier : because i seen some nobushi that where really untouchable ... ( a parry = guarantee guardbreak=guarantee top heavy ... if out of stamina =guarantee guarbreak + push you on the ground + guarantee top heavy take out half of your life ONE SHOT... i think she got the biggest punish of all ... + the heavy bleed ... + zone cancel ,dodge heavy, viper retreat combo is destructive !!...her light atk are VERY FAST + make bleed ! ect ect )


berzerker with the new uninteruptible stance is now very good ... even he got deflected HEAD CRUSHER IS GUARANTEE .. probably the stronger attack of all after the shugoki charged heavy.... if dmg buffed or berzerk feat are on it one shot anyone !....

deflect=guardbreak ... guardbreak push to wall top heavy = destructive !!!

so would put it second tier

valkirye as an assassin is easy to couter but still so damn fkn fast and it seem like she never out of stamina !!..she can sweep or shield bash to throw you on the ground again and again so easyly ..making a HUUUUGE DIFFERENCE IN A TEAM FIGHT deffinitely not last tier !!at least sub tier

Kensei :....very equilibrate one of the best feinter ! ..can cancel unblockable atk to guardbreak or sidelight after guardbreak push on the wall +top heavy (destructive ) ...sub tier not third

shugoki ... complete **** in 1v1 but most usefull one in a team ......still would leave it third tier xD

raider deffinetely need a buff .. but his the one who hit the harder (if he can actually find a way to land his heavy)

No one should ever listen to this man, he has not even the slightest understanding of balance. He even talks about how pks lights were slowed down when they were not, the time in between them was increased but they still come out in the same amount of frames. He acts as though she is the worst character in this game.

Nobushi top tier? Lol

Berserker headcrusher guaranteed? What? Are you his jumping heavy attack or his over head heavy? Either way turtles could parry them. Shugo is not at all bad in 1v1 he's easily in the same class as valk and lb. lb is probably mid to high mid tier nothing even close to top.

This is the pk you love to hate. Constantly whines while having somewhere between the 2nd or 3rd best class in the game and if you ever watch his videos you'll see why he complains about the nerfs. He does three things: spam lights, tons of dodge attacks, and runs away win losing. This man has no idea how to play the class, he's just been able to stomp people with ease but now that she's been balanced a bit he has a little trouble.

CandleInTheDark
05-11-2017, 01:28 PM
This is the pk you love to hate. Constantly whines while having somewhere between the 2nd or 3rd best class in the game and if you ever watch his videos you'll see why he complains about the nerfs. He does three things: spam lights, tons of dodge attacks, and runs away win losing. This man has no idea how to play the class, he's just been able to stomp people with ease but now that she's been balanced a bit he has a little trouble.

Yeah, other than one video where his own partner turned on him for no reason, I tend to hope people don't think all pk's are like this guy. I am not one of those who think the pk is trash tier because she now can't go against her class description, counter attacker, by standing there and throwing off uninterruptable lights.

I think when the guard change speeds have gone up for people, they might find it somewhat easier to deal with. I went against another pk in duel, me being rep 5. s/he being rep 3. We occasionally zoned, we occasionally saw a chain all the way through but odds were throwing anything more than one at a time unless it was deep gouge meant a dodge, block or parry. Now you can say well yeah we're both pks of course we can switch guard in time, which is why I said when everyone has had theirs improved, but we had five rounds of the winner being on their last bit of health without any of the spam that people used to be able to get away with not learning her kit because of how overwhelming it was.

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 01:41 PM
Yeah, other than one video where his own partner turned on him for no reason, I tend to hope people don't think all pk's are like this guy. I am not one of those who think the pk is trash tier because she now can't go against her class description, counter attacker, by standing there and throwing off uninterruptable lights.

I think when the guard change speeds have gone up for people, they might find it somewhat easier to deal with. I went against another pk in duel, me being rep 5. s/he being rep 3. We occasionally zoned, we occasionally saw a chain all the way through but odds were throwing anything more than one at a time unless it was deep gouge meant a block or parry. Now you can say well yeah we're both pks of course we can switch guard in time, which is why I said when everyone has had theirs improved, but we had five rounds of the winner being on their last bit of health without any of the spam that people used to be able to get away with not learning her kit because of how overwhelming it was.

I don't hate on pk as many others do but I understand why on console. Input delay and display delay can really make a gigantic difference

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 03:07 PM
Once defensive meta goes away... people will cry to nerf the zerk more than PK... WATCH

Why would they do that?

Morpheus256
05-11-2017, 03:15 PM
This tier list is surprisingly accurate.

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 03:22 PM
People are already crying about Zerk, especially on console because of 30 fps.

Once defense goes away zerk will shine for the infinite combo (I use def/stam reduction now but yay it changes!) because just blocking it will still do more dmg.

Meh, only people who are at novice level will complain. Zerks infinite is easy to parry or block. I don't know what they are doing exactly to change the turtling meta but if you can still parry or block it then he will still be low to mid tier.

S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 03:23 PM
People are already crying about Zerk, especially on console because of 30 fps.

Once defense goes away zerk will shine for the infinite combo (I use def/stam reduction now but yay it changes!) because just blocking it will still do more dmg.

This is something that could really happen, and somehow I am scared and excited at the same time.
But i do hope they get a good middle between Defense and Offense.
But currently it is more of an "defense 75/25 offense"


This tier list is surprisingly accurate.

Thank you :)

But there are still holes in this list (like valk, nobushi, kensei) it isn't that easy to do such a list and stay overall objective.

S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 03:31 PM
Meh, only people who are at novice level will complain. Zerks infinite is easy to parry or block. I don't know what they are doing exactly to change the turtling meta but if you can still parry or block it then he will still be low to mid tier.

Only as an Example:
If the meta changes in this way:
- Parry will cost stamina (or be limited in another way)
- higher chip dmg
- mabe no superior block on lights (chains can be continued)
- Stamina regen is slower when you blocking/under attack (attacks would do a kind of "stamina dmg")

Those changes alone would do a damn hight difference for the berserker, because his infinit chain would be only parriabel and dodgable and blockable.
Heavy blocks would do higer chip dmg (higher dps) and if parries are limited to stamina enemies couldn't parry every light and heavy of a Berserker, the way it is now.

He would be much more harrassing then he is now.

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 03:43 PM
But none of that will change the fact that berserker heavy is 25 fps. I agree that those changes would look help but against novices. I dont think they will make parry cost stamina but even if they do it won't really change much. It's not as though You can spam parries.

S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 03:51 PM
But none of that will change the fact that berserker heavy is 25 fps. I agree that those changes would look help but against novices. I dont think they will make parry cost stamina but even if they do it won't really change much. It's not as though You can spam parries.

Currently it is like you can "spam" parries.
I there are moments where i parry or get parried up to 6 times in a row :'D its ridiculous -
Parry cost of 1/3 or 1/4 would do a big difference ;)

A good berserker will feint 70% of his heavies, and some will hit if timed well - trust me i know what i am talking about (berserker main) and no i don't fight only newbies :)

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 04:08 PM
Currently it is like you can "spam" parries.
I there are moments where i parry or get parried up to 6 times in a row :'D its ridiculous -
Parry cost of 1/3 or 1/4 would do a big difference ;)

A good berserker will feint 70% of his heavies, and some will hit if timed well - trust me i know what i am talking about (berserker main) and no i don't fight only newbies :)

Right You just said it right there, good berserkers feint because they know they will get parried. If they Are feinting then they aren't doing they're infinite. And again you can't spam something that's contingent on reacting to someone's attack. The only way to "spam" a parry is if someone dumbie is relentlessly attacking you even after you keep parrying. How would parry stam Cost make a difference? It doesn't prevent me from getting a parry off

Maxime_Qc-
05-11-2017, 04:10 PM
No one should ever listen to this man, he has not even the slightest understanding of balance. He even talks about how pks lights were slowed down when they were not, the time in between them was increased but they still come out in the same amount of frames. He acts as though she is the worst character in this game.

Nobushi top tier? Lol

Berserker headcrusher guaranteed? What? Are you his jumping heavy attack or his over head heavy? Either way turtles could parry them. Shugo is not at all bad in 1v1 he's easily in the same class as valk and lb. lb is probably mid to high mid tier nothing even close to top.

This is the pk you love to hate. Constantly whines while having somewhere between the 2nd or 3rd best class in the game and if you ever watch his videos you'll see why he complains about the nerfs. He does three things: spam lights, tons of dodge attacks, and runs away win losing. This man has no idea how to play the class, he's just been able to stomp people with ease but now that she's been balanced a bit he has a little trouble.

you sir a just a moron !!! point !!!

you read half what i' saying and try to counter EVeRY single post i make !!!

first of all :YES pk's light HAVE been slow down A LOT !!! ok stop trying to deny it is the TRUTH plain and simple !!! before the patch it was IMPOSIBLE to parry a light atk from the pk ..now it is !!! its a FACT if you wanna contradict me bring the proof !!!

2 the nobushi .. : you have nothing better to answer than '' lol'' ?? .. shut up then !!

berserker ... i said AFTER BEING DEFLECT ... if you go for the headcrusher IT IS guaranteed ... nobody talk about it being impossile to parry it IS indeed the easyest move to parry that's why you cancel it to guardbreak or side light !! so i don't know why you talking about turtle can parry them !!

idgaf about what you think about the shugo i never encounter any shugoki that was able to kill me in 1v1 so im gonna keep saying that he s-u-c-ks.. if you get killed by him in 1v1 maybe you s-u-c-k too !!!

keep hating on me just because you never have the same oppinions that i have but stop lying ... i use the full kit of the pk !!

i dodge + heavy light bleed , guardbreak + 3 stab a lot !, parry + guardbreak 3 stab , zone cancel , never throw more than 2 light atk because i know after 2 the third is coming WAY SLOWER so gonna be parry for sure , i'm deflecting A LOT ... against valkyrie deflect is my main strategy because every valk spam that sweep so ..so easy to deflect on the first light it always start from the top side !! sometime i even use the heavy feint to light to make bleed ... but it's probably the most useless move of her kit so not using it very often .. just use it to mix up to play with the opponent !

and even sometime feint heavy cancel to bait and parry ect ...

you don't know s-h-i-t about me so shut the f-u-c-k up !!!!!

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 04:22 PM
you sir a just a moron !!! point !!!

you read half what i' saying and try to counter EVeRY single post i make !!!

first of all :YES pk's light HAVE been slow down A LOT !!! ok stop trying to deny it is the TRUTH plain and simple !!! before the patch it was IMPOSIBLE to parry a light atk from the pk ..now it is !!! its a FACT if you wanna contradict me bring the proof !!!

2 the nobushi .. : you have nothing better to answer than '' lol'' ?? .. shut up then !!

berserker ... i said AFTER BEING DEFLECT ... if you go for the headcrusher IT IS guaranteed ... nobody talk about it being impossile to parry it IS indeed the easyest move to parry that's why you cancel it to guardbreak or side light !! so i don't know why you talking about turtle can parry them !!

idgaf about what you think about the shugo i never encounter any shugoki that was able to kill me in 1v1 so im gonna keep saying that he s-u-c-ks.. if you get killed by him in 1v1 maybe you s-u-c-k too !!!

keep hating on me just because you never have the same oppinions that i have but stop lying ... i use the full kit of the pk !!

i dodge + heavy light bleed , guardbreak + 3 stab a lot !, parry + guardbreak 3 stab , zone cancel , never throw more than 2 light atk because i know after 2 the third is coming WAY SLOWER so gonna be parry for sure , i'm deflecting A LOT ... against valkyrie deflect is my main strategy because every valk spam that sweep so ..so easy to deflect on the first light it always start from the top side !! sometime i even use the heavy feint to light to make bleed ... but it's probably the most useless move of her kit so not using it very often .. just use it to mix up to play with the opponent !

and even sometime feint heavy cancel to bait and parry ect ...

you don't know s-h-i-t about me so shut the f-u-c-k up !!!!!

Show me the patch notes that show pks lights have been slowed down and I'll quit posting here. The time inbetween being able to Do them was slowed so they can't be spammed but the attacks themselves are still 15 frames on the first and 12 on the second. Yeah I don't need to argue why nobushi isn't top tier just like I don't need to argue that I have two arms. It's obvious, just look at every tier list created for for honor and she's universally low to mid tier. You just suck against her, which is hilarious because Pk is one of nobushis worst match ups.

Berserker doesn't get a free top heavy on gb, again that's uou just sucking and not knowing how to block. You haven't encountered any good shugos because your mmr sucks. I don't know if this game is region locked but Ill prove it to you. I'm far from great with shugo and I'll still destroy you. I'm not hating on you, you just have the dumbest opinions I've ever read on this forum. I do know about you though and the way you play, did you forget you put your videos on YouTube? I watched how you play, you are an absolute novice that uses novice tactics. You can't parry or block for crap and you have no footsies. You only have your strong character to carry you.

Maxime_Qc-
05-11-2017, 04:34 PM
Show me the patch notes that show pks lights have been slowed down and I'll quit posting here. The time inbetween being able to Do them was slowed so they can't be spammed but the attacks themselves are still 15 frames on the first and 12 on the second. Yeah I don't need to argue why nobushi isn't top tier just like I don't need to argue that I have two arms. It's obvious, just look at every tier list created for for honor and she's universally low to mid tier. You just suck against her, which is hilarious because Pk is one of nobushis worst match ups.

Berserker doesn't get a free top heavy on gb, again that's uou just sucking and not knowing how to block. You haven't encountered any good shugos because your mmr sucks. I don't know if this game is region locked but Ill prove it to you. I'm far from great with shugo and I'll still destroy you. I'm not hating on you, you just have the dumbest opinions I've ever read on this forum. I do know about you though and the way you play, did you forget you put your videos on YouTube? I watched how you play, you are an absolute novice that uses novice tactics. You can't parry or block for crap and you have no footsies. You only have your strong character to carry you.

by light being slow thats exactly what i mean ..stop playing with the words !!

i have no hard time vs nobushi with my peacekeeper ... only ONE time i met a guy that i have to admit he was a absolute god with her nobushi !! ..thats when i told myself that a nobushi well played can destroyed anyone !! you may never have encounter that type of player yet !!!

i don't claim to be the best but i know a lot im and im sure i'm way better than you just looking at how you talk about the games !! .. you spend more times on the forum than actually playing the game loll !!

again i don'T know why you talk about free top heavy after GUARDBREAK ..When i said after DEFLECT .. don't you know what the difference is ?.. btw if you throw your opponent on a wall after a guardbreak you actually HAVE a free top heavy ... no wall ? side heavy after guardbreak allways free tho ..

and if you think you really can provce what you are saying add me on psn ... i'll post the video after i kick your *** on the forum ... my psn gamertag is the same thats its on the forum .. maxime_Qc- !!!

i'll even make a nice compilation showing all the parry i will do after you saying i cant parry or block for crap !

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 04:47 PM
by light being slow thats exactly what i mean ..stop playing with the words !!

i have no hard time vs nobushi with my peacekeeper ... only ONE time i met a guy that i have to admit he was a absolute god with her nobushi !! ..thats when i told myself that a nobushi well played can destroyed anyone !! you may never have encounter that type of player yet !!!

i don't claim to be the best but i know a lot im and im sure i'm way better than you just looking at how you talk about the games !! .. you spend more times on the forum than actually playing the game loll !!

again i don'T know why you talk about free top heavy after GUARDBREAK ..When i talk after DEFLECT .. don't you know what the difference is ?.. btw if you throw your opponent on a wall after a guardbreak you actually HAVE a free top heavy ... no wall ? side heavy after guardbreak allways free tho ..

and if you think you really can provce what you are saying add me on psn ... i'll post the video after i kick your *** on the forum ... my psn gamertag is the same thats its on the forum .. maxime_Qc- !!!

I'm not playing with words, you said they were slower and they aren't. They are the exact same speed as before and it even says it in the patch notes. Just because you came across an experienced nobushi Doesn't change the fact that nobushi is bottom to midtier. Deflect doesn't change if berzerker gets "skullcrusher," he still needs a wall to do it. Gladly accept your challenge. I'll be on later tonight, around 6pm pacific time. It's time I shut you up once and for All.

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 04:49 PM
I've never recorded something, can someone tell me how I do it on PS4. I don't get how it works and I know if I don't record it he won't post the whole video

Maxime_Qc-
05-11-2017, 05:10 PM
I'm not playing with words, you said they were slower and they aren't. They are the exact same speed as before and it even says it in the patch notes. Just because you came across an experienced nobushi Doesn't change the fact that nobushi is bottom to midtier. Deflect doesn't change if berzerker gets "skullcrusher," he still needs a wall to do it. Gladly accept your challenge. I'll be on later tonight, around 6pm pacific time. It's time I shut you up once and for All.

light atk ARE SLOWER ....slowing the time INBETWEEN them means slowing light atack because IT IS the light atack that being affect !!nothing else !! agin stop playing with the word

and you keep proving how much a fkn MORON you are by keep saying the headcrusher is not guaranteed after first berzerk atk as been deflect

Maxime_Qc-
05-11-2017, 05:11 PM
I've never recorded something, can someone tell me how I do it on PS4. I don't get how it works and I know if I don't record it he won't post the whole video



how can someone take this guys seriously .. he don't even know how his ps4 working !! xD ... go back to Pc !!!

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 05:18 PM
how can someone take this guys seriously .. he don't even know how his ps4 working !! xD ... go back to Pc !!!

This guy who "don't even know how his PS4 working," is going to stomp you and that's all that really matters. I just told you why, I don't record videos on my PlayStation. I've never needed to or seen the point. I know if you actually don't chicken out from our fight you won't post the footage of me stomping you out so I'll have to learn how to record.

Joseph_2017
05-11-2017, 05:18 PM
You guys should duel

Gain some street rep here

Joseph_2017
05-11-2017, 05:20 PM
This guy who "don't even know how his PS4 working," is going to stomp you and that's all that really matters. I just told you why, I don't record videos on my PlayStation. I've never needed to or seen the point. I know if you actually don't chicken out from our fight you won't post the footage of me stomping you out so I'll have to learn how to record.

Once duel is over press share

Once save go to capture gallery

Trim and upload

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 05:22 PM
light atk ARE SLOWER ....slowing the time INBETWEEN them means slowing light atack because IT IS the light atack that being affect !!nothing else !! agin stop playing with the word

and you keep proving how much a fkn MORON you are by keep saying the headcrusher is not guaranteed after first berzerk atk as been deflect

I'm not playing with your words they are the exact same speed. You just can't spam them, that doesn't mean slower. After I crush you in our fight I'll let you get a deflect on me with your berserker and let's see if you get an over head on me.

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 05:23 PM
Once duel is over press share

Once save go to capture gallery

Trim and upload

So I don't have to press anything before the duel starts?

Joseph_2017
05-11-2017, 05:25 PM
So I don't have to press anything before the duel starts?

Nope after, it'll save the previous 15 min of gameplay

Maxime_Qc-
05-11-2017, 05:28 PM
I'm not playing with your words they are the exact same speed. You just can't spam them, that doesn't mean slower. After I crush you in our fight I'll let you get a deflect on me with your berserker and let's see if you get an over head on me.

are you really that supid ... i keep saying after berzerk has been deflect by another assassin's not after berzerk succeed to deflect ... geez .. gotta explain everything 10 times to this guys .. it's like talking to the guy in the movie ''dumb and dumber ''


and excuse me about that speed but SLOWING time inbetween THE LIGHT ATTACK... is making a HUUUUGE difference ... before that patch i could have just spam the s-h-i-t out of your shugoki ... i mean ..why bother with so many tactic when i could finish you in 10 second and go help the rest of my team ...

but now with this patch .. anyone spamming is just an idiot!!! ... and anyone getting killed by spammer need to FKN GET GOOD xD !!!

now i'm not saying that IM a spammer .. i can be way better than that .. but theres sometime you don'T give a **** anymore because the guy's in front of you is just stupid or they 4 on you .. and when you get jumped 4v1 and i get revenge mode ...hell yeah im gonna spam the **** out of you again with my zone cancel ,faint and light .... theres no more rules when you get jumped like that !!

i used to like it how it was before the patch because it was breaking all the *** turtle and dishonorable 1v4 jumped .... but i can play fair honorable 1v1 without spamming too!!

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 05:32 PM
are you really that supid ... i keep saying after berzerk has been deflect by another assassin's not after berzerk succeed to deflect ... geez .. gotta explain everything 10 times to this guys .. it's like talking to the guy in the movie ''dumb and dumber ''

Sorry dude but your English isn't great, don't blame me for not understanding and if that was your argument then I would have said okay but why the hell would you try and deflect a berserker?

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 05:41 PM
are you really that supid ... i keep saying after berzerk has been deflect by another assassin's not after berzerk succeed to deflect ... geez .. gotta explain everything 10 times to this guys .. it's like talking to the guy in the movie ''dumb and dumber ''


and excuse me about that speed but SLOWING time inbetween THE LIGHT ATTACK... is making a HUUUUGE difference ... before that patch i could have just spam the s-h-i-t out of your shugoki ... i mean ..why bother with so many tactic when i could finish you in 10 second and go help the rest of my team ...

but now with this patch .. anyone spamming is just an idiot!!! ... and anyone getting killed by spammer need to FKN GET GOOD xD !!!

now i'm not saying that IM a spammer .. i can be way better than that .. but theres sometime you don'T give a **** anymore because the guy's in front of you is just stupid or they 4 on you .. and when you get jumped 4v1 and i get revenge mode ...hell yeah im gonna spam the **** out of you again with my zone cancel ,faint and light .... theres no more rules when you get jumped like that !!

i used to like it how it was before the patch because it was breaking all the *** turtle and dishonorable 1v4 jumped .... but i can play fair honorable 1v1 without spamming too!!

But you are a light spammer, it's in all the videos you have so you can't really deny it. It's still not slower, the attacks are the same speed. No matter how many times you say it the frames are the exact same. No one is denying there is a difference prenerf as to post nerf, you are saying they are slower and they aren't.

dekot11
05-11-2017, 05:44 PM
Don't just do Shug vs. PK, use your mains too. Both of you talk a lot on the forums and I want to see where you guys are at.

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 05:47 PM
Don't just do Shug vs. PK, use your mains too. Both of you talk a lot on the forums and I want to see where you guys are at.

Yeah I'm going to start with my mains and after the set I was going to switch to shugo

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 05:48 PM
Nope after, it'll save the previous 15 min of gameplay

Thanks man I appreciate the heads up

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 05:54 PM
Don't just do Shug vs. PK, use your mains too. Both of you talk a lot on the forums and I want to see where you guys are at.

Happy to do friendlies with you too if you are curious about where I'm at. I don't think I'm the greatest ever but if I was going to be honest with myself I think I'm above average. I'll duel anyone that wants to, my account is antonioj-26 but lately I've been using my wife's Alyssaa-3 since my cousin has been playing on mine.

CaTaStR0Fa
05-11-2017, 08:14 PM
jesus i disagree with so many things i don't even know where to start

lb is tier 1 along w/ warden and wl. tons of damage, unblockable w/ guaranteed damage or if you dodge a free gb. his top lights are fast. his combos are very powerful. his unblockable is uninterruptible. he has that dash throw that can throw you off a ledge half way across a map and he has powerful punish options off parry and gb

peacekeeper might be a tier 2 character if you're talking about consoles but on pc she's pretty ****ty tbh. her lights can easily be blocked mid/high level and her lights get parried frequently in high tier. her zone is also very predictable and easily dealt w/. her side heavy is almost a guaranteed parry unless you happen to be doing it while they are attacking but if you're jumping around hoping for that chance you'll be gb. if you miss a gb she has a huge window where you can get a guaranteed gb on her. and her deflect is garbage

you need to place berserker in his own tier and certainly not in a tier w/ raider who can open with a hard hitting unblockable he can use for punishment and/or mixups. the rest of them offer so much in their own way that any sensible person would see them w/out having to say anything

LB is tier 1?????Stop the drugs pls man

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 08:16 PM
LB is tier 1.......Stop the drugs pls man

Far from it my friend. Still far below warlord warden and pk. He's doing okay but he's mid to high mid tier if anything

CaTaStR0Fa
05-11-2017, 08:18 PM
Far from it my friend. Still far below warlord warden and pk. He's doing okay but he's mid to high mid tier if anything

i know.... to say that lb is tier one or he is op you have to be new to the game or you didnt even play it

Knight_Raime
05-11-2017, 10:00 PM
IMO*

god tier: warlord
top tier: warden, conq, pk.
medium tier: orochi, zerker, raider, valk, LB, shugoki, bushi.
low tier: kensei.

Warlord has no downside if you say range i'd literally laugh at you. and he's gt an answer to every situation + best throw distance.
Warden has good mix ups good overall moveset. just not good at defending. PK has quick lights good mix ups, decent bleed and punishing. her zone. Just again not very good at defense. and also lacking in a good way to open a turtle. Conq is still super strong to those that are really patient and make liberal use of full block feints. but he's only got one good strat. which makes his kit weak overall. soon as defensive meta is gone he's going to fall far.

Everyone else has a niche or gimmick that carries them a good way. But you need to exert a good amount of skill to outplay god/top tier characters specifically because these kits lack good openings. And kensei is low tier because you can't open people up. period. and his dashes are unsafe on block. only good attack is the top attack (helm splitter I believe.) and since all feint combos basically lead there you can stop even a kensei god.

Preemptively speaking I think the centurion has the ability to be in top tier. Entirely depends on how strong you can punish him off dodge (because supposedly that's his weakness.)
For shinobi? medium tier. Unless the ranged attacks can be used more liberally. (since from neutral the seem easily punishable) Though a case could be made to put him in top tier due to his mix up potential, light light spam, and his dodge dodge cancel and backflip. (so long as dodge dodge and backflips allow for good enough mix ups. I think it can go either way. But I think he'll start out in medium tier due to his ranged neutral being easily punished and he's going to take a lot of practice before pros find some god tier mix ups with him.

S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 10:45 PM
IMO*

god tier: warlord
top tier: warden, conq, pk.
medium tier: orochi, zerker, raider, valk, LB, shugoki, bushi.
low tier: kensei.

Warlord has no downside if you say range i'd literally laugh at you. and he's gt an answer to every situation + best throw distance.
Warden has good mix ups good overall moveset. just not good at defending. PK has quick lights good mix ups, decent bleed and punishing. her zone. Just again not very good at defense. and also lacking in a good way to open a turtle. Conq is still super strong to those that are really patient and make liberal use of full block feints. but he's only got one good strat. which makes his kit weak overall. soon as defensive meta is gone he's going to fall far.

Everyone else has a niche or gimmick that carries them a good way. But you need to exert a good amount of skill to outplay god/top tier characters specifically because these kits lack good openings. And kensei is low tier because you can't open people up. period. and his dashes are unsafe on block. only good attack is the top attack (helm splitter I believe.) and since all feint combos basically lead there you can stop even a kensei god.

Preemptively speaking I think the centurion has the ability to be in top tier. Entirely depends on how strong you can punish him off dodge (because supposedly that's his weakness.)
For shinobi? medium tier. Unless the ranged attacks can be used more liberally. (since from neutral the seem easily punishable) Though a case could be made to put him in top tier due to his mix up potential, light light spam, and his dodge dodge cancel and backflip. (so long as dodge dodge and backflips allow for good enough mix ups. I think it can go either way. But I think he'll start out in medium tier due to his ranged neutral being easily punished and he's going to take a lot of practice before pros find some god tier mix ups with him.

Yes, i can agree with this, except one thing.

Conqu: I started to play him not long ago (lvl 18 currently)
I do use EVERY tool he has, full guard stance feint etc. and i am a mix of aggressiv and patient.
- But i need to say, that his dmg is so low, that he needs long to bring an enemy down.
- his stamina management is very ... extrem, he is the only char who gets easy out of stamina if i do a OOS punish on an enemy (ok raider, is similar)
- he isn't really slow but he isn't really fast, it is a medium speed, and because he can only full stance block feint this will lead often in parries.
- his shieldbash is his main tool, and it is quite good balanced, that means it is reactable at all, you can assume it coming if the conqu does dodge. But the timing to punish shildbash is really small (only works when the enemy dodges very early - and this does happen only 1 in 30 times)

Like i said - he is a special case, even if he has so much downsides, he is still very strong.

And if the defensive meta does change, it will not affect the conqu. Why i think so ?

- Just look at his tools, all his block are superior, that mean he never takes chip dmg.
- againg superior block on heavies gives him a free GB, that means he doesn't need to parry (only unblockable moves)

What i want to say, Conquerers defense isn't influenced by the defensive meta, because he is the epitome of Defense - he is the Wall.

Hormly
05-11-2017, 11:34 PM
I apologize.... for NOTHING *headbutt*

S0Mi_xD
05-11-2017, 11:54 PM
I apologize.... for NOTHING *headbutt*

You forgot the Poke(guaranteed 10 dmg) :D

Ex__Machina
05-12-2017, 12:07 AM
LB is tier 1?????Stop the drugs pls man

his unblockable leads to guaranteed damage or guaranteed gb. all he has to do is block everything until he throws out his unblockable or until he is comfortable parrying something.

this makes him tier 1 for duels while playing high level

Netcode_err_404
05-12-2017, 12:18 AM
his unblockable leads to guaranteed damage or guaranteed gb. all he has to do is block everything until he throws out his unblockable or until he is comfortable parrying something.

this makes him tier 1 for duels while playing high level

You know 2 facts about for honor, and both of them are wrong

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 12:27 AM
Well I hate to be nitpicky but you contradicted yourself. You can't tell him he knows two facts and Then tell him they are both wrong. Facts are always right. I still disagree about law bringer being top tier though

Ex__Machina
05-12-2017, 01:08 AM
You know 2 facts about for honor, and both of them are wrong

i'm not really sure if there's a language barrier between us or what cuz i can't really comprehend your statement

however i'm confident enough w/ my statement to defend it. assuming ofc you can bring something intelligible to the debate

Netcode_err_404
05-12-2017, 02:59 AM
Well I hate to be nitpicky but you contradicted yourself. You can't tell him he knows two facts and Then tell him they are both wrong. Facts are always right. I still disagree about law bringer being top tier though

You just hate to be ironic

i'm not really sure if there's a language barrier between us or what cuz i can't really comprehend your statement

however i'm confident enough w/ my statement to defend it. assuming ofc you can bring something intelligible to the debate


The only barrier here is called sarcasm.

You literally do not know nothing about LB. let me explain why they are still trash tier with the other 6-7 characters.


1- His "50/50" : Its not a pure 50/50, is just a mixup opener, to compensate the fact even lights are slow AF, and infact the real damage output of a LB comes out this shove mixup

THERE ARE 2 REASONS WHY THE SHOVE "50/50" is trash

reason number 1) Lights can be deflected. That means a simple poke damage can turn into a free GB from a zerker, and free damage from orochi and pk

Reason number 2 ) Shove is easily dodgeable and unlike warden cannot be cancelled or cancelled into a Gb from nowwhere.

Try to shove a Warden ? if he is smart he will side dodge and will start his vortex, just to remember you what a real 50/50 is all about, so from a shove attempt you will find yourself stucked into a real vortex with less than half hp,

The shove chain attacks from a block are something that should not exist in the first place, and i'd trade this garbage mechanic to be able to cancel the shove like wardens.

Also little reminder, warden, and warlords just to name 2, can win duels without attacking one single time, so they nullify the block shove "50/50"


As long as thie class is so ****ing slow, and predictable won't be top tier except in bad's mind.

Caḷling LB more broken than wardens is blasphemy

Ah yes, almost forgot to mention the fact half of our combo are broken and don't even work LOL

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 03:16 AM
You just hate to be ironic
The only barrier here is called sarcasm.


Using words incorrectly isn't irony or sarcasm.

Ex__Machina
05-12-2017, 03:20 AM
You just hate to be ironic



The only barrier here is called sarcasm.

You literally do not know nothing about LB. let me explain why they are still trash tier with the other 6-7 characters.




i literally

do not know nothing

so i literally know everything?

i think there's a larger barrier here than you realize

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 03:24 AM
i literally

do not know nothing

so i literally know everything?

i think there's a larger barrier here than you realize

Hahahhahahhahahahahahaha.

Netcode_err_404
05-12-2017, 03:25 AM
i literally

do not know nothing

so i literally know everything?

i think there's a larger barrier here than you realize

I realize I've already wasted enough time with you.

You are wrong, and I explained why. Fell free to read and you may learn something.

Netcode_err_404
05-12-2017, 03:38 AM
Using words incorrectly isn't irony or sarcasm.

Infact half of the sarcasm on the internet are incorrect words.

Git Gud ? ever heard of it ? Oh no, you probably bored the creators of this meme too, because Git Gud is incorrect.

Find some hobby mate. I know FH is boring now, but there are plenty of funny games out there.

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 03:50 AM
Infact half of the sarcasm on the internet are incorrect words.

Git Gud ? ever heard of it ? Oh no, you probably bored the creators of this meme too, because Git Gud is incorrect.

Find some hobby mate. I know FH is boring now, but there are plenty of funny games out there.

That's completely different. If you don't understand how spelling words incorrectly as a meme isn't the same as using them wrong then there's not a whole lot I can do for you. Please point out the irony of "You know 2 facts about for honor, and both of them are wrong." I don't get why people have to get so defensive when they say something dumb, just admit to and we can move on.

Netcode_err_404
05-12-2017, 04:01 AM
That's completely different. If you don't understand how spelling words incorrectly as a meme isn't the same as using them wrong then there's not a whole lot I can do for you. Please point out the irony of "You know 2 facts about for honor, and both of them are wrong." I don't get why people have to get so defensive when they say something dumb, just admit to and we can move on.

Coudn't find a better example :

top gear, episode xx BBC "Some say he knows two facts about ducks, and both of them are wrong"


He said it in a sarcastic way of course, and hundred of people just got the humor in that part of the show, nobody came with boring grammar assumptions, and probably clarkson would be glad to know you were not there to bore the people.

Again, find some hobby. You are beeing
talkative here.


If that hurts your spirit, call the bbc and whine to them because you bored me more than 1v1 on for honor.

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 04:07 AM
Coudn't find a better example :

top gear, episode xx BBC "Some say he knows two facts about ducks, and both of them are wrong"


He said it in a sarcastic way of course, and hundred of people just got the humor in that part of the show, nobody came with boring grammar assumptions, and probably clarkson would be glad to know you were not there to bore the people.

Again, find some hobby. You are beeing
talkative here.


If that hurts your spirit, call the bbc and whine to them because you bored me more than 1v1 on for honor.

You act like people can't multi-task. It's harder to read irony or sarcasm in text form so fair enough, you were right. Nothing hurts my spirit, calm down there guy. You are getting awfully worked up over a conversation.

CaTaStR0Fa
05-12-2017, 08:11 PM
his unblockable leads to guaranteed damage or guaranteed gb. all he has to do is block everything until he throws out his unblockable or until he is comfortable parrying something.

this makes him tier 1 for duels while playing high level

do you know what parry is? or dodge?? his attack are so slow that they can parry him or dodge them....he is only op in low levels and in newbies not in a high level players

Liv3rp00l
05-14-2017, 02:59 PM
One thing on this thread that I found particularly interesting was the idea for hyper armour on the Conqueror when he uses his charged attacks. This is a good idea, but we have to be careful that the charged attack does not then become a spammable move akin to the headbutt or shoulder bash of the warden. Perhaps the hyper armour had a cool-down of say fifteen seconds (up for debate), to prevent repeated spamming of the attack.

Overall though an interesting thread and an interesting read. Thanks for linking me!

S0Mi_xD
05-14-2017, 03:29 PM
One thing on this thread that I found particularly interesting was the idea for hyper armour on the Conqueror when he uses his charged attacks. This is a good idea, but we have to be careful that the charged attack does not then become a spammable move akin to the headbutt or shoulder bash of the warden. Perhaps the hyper armour had a cool-down of say fifteen seconds (up for debate), to prevent repeated spamming of the attack.

Overall though an interesting thread and an interesting read. Thanks for linking me!

I am sure it won't be abuseable, you know why?
I play berserker and after the buff with a hyperarmor, it made berserker attacks viable for a trade - and makeing his Chain finally viable usefull.

The point is, charge attack will be still telegraphed via the charge animation, so if you see it charging you can still stay away like 90% of the player do it, or just bait it to parry it.

But if Conquer gets a hyperarmor after the first charg(this takes 1 second) you can use as a trade tool.
And this would need much skill, because the timing would be very strict - sure 1 second does not sound much but imagin.
It wouldn't be easy to master this and even harder with the second charge.
The spamabilit would be still the same - none, it would make this move just a little bit more viable.
Because currently it is not useless but not really usefull.

Thank you :)