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Chuck_Older
03-28-2004, 08:43 AM
This is hardly an exhaustive list.

For example, I know very well and with sure certainty that "E2*D" was an ID code for a P-51 flown by Lt. Urban Drew, and the ID prefix "E2" is listed here as "P-47", which I'm sure it was before Drew's group converted to P-51s.

BUT this is pretty interesting.

Scroll down a bit for WWII era aircraft ID markings, US, RAF, German, too!

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/history/marshall/military/airforce/markings.txt

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

Chuck_Older
03-28-2004, 08:43 AM
This is hardly an exhaustive list.

For example, I know very well and with sure certainty that "E2*D" was an ID code for a P-51 flown by Lt. Urban Drew, and the ID prefix "E2" is listed here as "P-47", which I'm sure it was before Drew's group converted to P-51s.

BUT this is pretty interesting.

Scroll down a bit for WWII era aircraft ID markings, US, RAF, German, too!

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/history/marshall/military/airforce/markings.txt

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

dahdah
03-28-2004, 09:10 AM
Just because a FS changed a/c does not mean the unit code would change.

The 361st FG (code E2 for the 375th FS) flew P-47Ds til June 44. The other codes are B7 for the 374th FS and E9 for the 376th FS.

When the 20th FG converted to P-51s(June/July 44) they kept the their unit codes, 55th FS - KI, 77th FS - LC, 79th FS - MC.

Chuck_Older
03-28-2004, 09:28 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Thanks, I beleive I mentioned that when I typed, " "E2" is listed here as "P-47", which I'm sure it was before Drew's group converted to P-51s." "

There would, for example, not be two aircraft marked "E2*D". So, as I indicated, I am sure that a P-47 had that marking before the group converted to P-51s.

Not sure where the confusion lay, but thanks for the reply.

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

dahdah
03-28-2004, 09:53 AM
"which I'm sure it was before Drew's group converted to P-51s."

The 'I'm sure' showed a doubt that it was.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Saying "which it was before Drew's group converted to P-51s." would have shown no doubt that it was the code.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Chuck_Older
03-28-2004, 10:16 AM
Ah. To me, "I'm sure" means, "I'm positive it was, but I do not have the facts at hand to back that up", ie: "I have no doubt" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


In any case, I looked this up because of Preddy's Group. Their aircraft have fuselage code "HO*", with no suffix. However, the tails all seem coded. I can't see that this follows the bomber groups' practice of tail codes, so I am wondering if the tail code took the place of the suffix on these planes. I still haven't found out for sure but that seems likely...in which case, I have to do some re-skinning on a couple Mustangs I have altered a little.

I'm using CanonUK's excellent skins, and I have a few P-51Ds based on his "Slender Tender&Tall"

All it took was some copying and pasting in Paint, and I have 3 'new' mustangs from the group, complete with individual serial numbers.

But I kept the rudder letter code, and I think that is very wrong now. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Not a big deal, but I'll have to come up with the letters, since I can't just copy and paste, and my skills at skinning using Paint are nothing like CanonUK's, using a PaintShop program.

Oh well. I have a 'personalised' Mustang with correct-seeming markings, at least. I need some non-ace planes, since it's odd to my eye, having all these 10+ kill aces all together in the same flight. Maybe I'll just buy PaintShop Pro or whatever and learn to do it for real.

But this list of ID codes ws nice to find, especially for the German coses, which don't seem to be common knowledge.

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

horseback
03-28-2004, 11:27 AM
Chuck,

ETO groups all followed the RAF practice of assigning squadron specific letter codes to the fuselage, starting with the initial B-17 groups and the transfer of the Eagle Squadrons into the 8th AF as the 4th FG. As the number of aircraft assigned to a squadron more than doubled by the late summer of '44, there often WERE duplicate individual aircraft letters assigned within a squadron. The second a/c would have its letter underlined to differentiate it. I think this practice was most prominent in the 56th FG, where a few late war aces' a/c had underlined letters.

As for the practice of putting individual a/c letters on the tail rather than on the fuselage, I think the Blue-Noses started doing it around D-Day, when the Invasion striping obscured the letter on the fuselage. The former P-38 groups may also have done it because their booms were so slender that the ID letters were illegible from almost any distance, and this practice just carried over to the Mustang.

I also seem to remember a few bomber groups putting the individual a/c letter on the tail as well, but I'm on the road right now, and can't check my resources. It may have been for no more practical reason than the Group CO deciding to make his outfit stand out by bending the RAF's standard just a bit.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

Chuck_Older
03-28-2004, 11:33 AM
Didn't know about the underlined letters. In fact, I have a skin with an underlined letter and I had wondered about that.

I was pretty sure the tail letter was in fact the aircraft individual marking, thanks for confirming
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I have a little work to do on some skins now...

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

dahdah
03-28-2004, 03:37 PM
Knew you did now know what you were talking about.

Here are 2 sites that might be of some use to you.

http://www.web-birds.com/
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/galleries-home.html

Chuck_Older
03-28-2004, 07:44 PM
I knew that you did know that I knew that...

whatever http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

cool links, thanks!

Tool me 3 hours, but I now have two more P-51Ds, HO*I and HO*X, with serial numbers, that I can use. Man, are Canon's skins good...it's too bad, because my horrible attempts at retouching his skins stick out like a cat in the soup!

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

willyvic
03-28-2004, 10:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Tool me 3 hours, but I now have two more P-51Ds, HO*I and HO*X, with serial numbers, that I can use. Man, are Canon's skins good...it's too bad, because my horrible attempts at retouching his skins stick out like a cat in the soup!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How so bro? Layering the markings the problem?

http://www.geocities.com/mompeepers/willyvic/mig3u.jpg

Chuck_Older
03-29-2004, 10:23 AM
Nah, no problems with layering...because my software won't do that.

I'm using Paint, you know, the program that comes with Windows. Some of these things I'm doing are getting done one dot at a time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif and then I have to run FB to see how it really looks. Forget about shading, I have to copy and paste little bits from other places on the planes and then stretch, skew, and rotate until they mesh http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif Next payday, I see a real editting program in my future

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

dahdah
03-29-2004, 11:14 AM
You might try to find/get these Squadron/Signal books, if you don't have them. Cost ~$15.00

http://www.squadron.com/images/large/SS6152.jpg

Vol 2 is for ETO and MTO a/c. Don't know what Vol 1 is about.

http://www.squadron.com/images/large/SS6087.jpg

Take a look through this listing of other books.

http://www.squadron.com/SearchResults.asp?ScaleList=everything&TypeList=everything&ManuList=SS&Key=&Submit=Go&offset=240

Chuck_Older
03-29-2004, 02:37 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Thanks!

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

tttiger
03-29-2004, 03:10 PM
Chuck, thanks for the reference. It's handy.

"Little Friends" link in a post above is the best source I've seen for USAAF ETO planes.

You'll notice that the letter stuck with pilots when they were issued new planes. In the 56th FG, for example, all but one of Hub Zemke's planes were marked UN-Z, although never two at the same time. In one case, he received a new P-47 and it was marked UN-Z while his old P-47 went to another pilot who changed the letters.

The trick, I believe is to match the correct tail number with the correct skin.

And, yes, on the 352nd's planes, the final letter is on the tail and fuselgae code letters.

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."