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View Full Version : SONAR sound still there in 1.21



XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 09:40 PM
thks Oleg for trying,but no result yet.I can still hear other plane's engines,gunfire,bombs.... very far away. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 09:40 PM
thks Oleg for trying,but no result yet.I can still hear other plane's engines,gunfire,bombs.... very far away. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 10:51 PM
Yes, but now is WORST! Suddenly, I hear machinegun fire over my plane but there´s nobody there!. The flak was bad, but hearing a gun on my neck in worst!

It confuses a lot. Any chance of using the RC02 sound .dll instead of this?

Athlon XP 2400+
Club3D ATI Radeon 9700 Pro
ASUS A7n8X Motherboard
2x512Mb DDR333 RAM
Windows XP Pro
2xWD120Gb ATA100 HDs

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 11:09 PM
much better for me now. still a bit of sonar sound, but not nearly as much as before.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 11:13 PM
Ugh. This is not good news.

I like the effect on fly-bys, but I'd jettison it in a minute in favor of NOT ruining bounces.

Ear candy should always be sacrificed in favor of "reality". The "cool" benefits aren't worth the negatives.

Windows 98SE
Athlon 1700+ 1.4GHz
Mobo: FIC AU13 (TFA42 BIOS)
nVidia onboard sound
1GB of 2100 DDR memory
Video Card: ATI Radeon 8500 128MB w/Catalyst 3.5
Cougar HOTAS
CH Pedals

XyZspineZyX
12-03-2003, 11:57 PM
better here so far

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 12:52 AM
It keeps you looking around which can`t be a bad thing



http://server2.uploadit.org/files/291003-01anoseart_us_08.jpg


Carriers & Corsairs

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 03:19 AM
Oh no....
I think sonar sound is over from 1.21

alot of people including me try hard to request Mr.Oleg & Team to fix it, I belive they try to fix this problem but under limit of time for test 1.21 , I know it is very hard job for Mr Oleg & Team to do favor to every friends here.


I feel sad.. like every one who waiting this fix, and hope ... IL2FB will come close to simulate tactical aircombat in WWII


ok in 1.21 still have many good thing and many people happy


it would be batter if Mr.Oleg say some word that you will fix this for us , that word enought to make us smile and patient to wait ....


S!

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 04:31 AM
The sound on my rig is now Bloody awful. It sounds as though my ears are full of cotton wool and there is is far too much bass, even with my sub turned right down.
Not to mention the fact that I get a hard reboot if I select the perfect graphics setting. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Sys specs:
Radeon 9800 XT
Amd Athalon 3200+
1 gig pc3400 Mem
Audigy sound card
Asus A7N8X-X nForce2 mobo.

Regards B_O_L_T.

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 05:37 AM
Despite requests, Oleg still thinks you can hear these things in my emails.

I still think not.

Oleg, please look again - I know this is not an easy change, and sound is complicated - but serious pilots do not wish to hear externals.

S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Skies Virtual War
Forum: http://fogwar.luftwaffe.net/forums/index.php
Website: http://www.forgottenskies.com
Visit 609IAP at http://takeoff.to/609IAP


http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


"What was truly obsolete happened to be the turning or dogfighting
combat that had been used during of WW I."

Erik Shilling - AVG - http://yarchive.net/mil/p40.html

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 09:17 AM
Same here. I can still hear planes and gunfire from them while driving my engine at full blast. I'm using Distance Attenuation=2. I'm Win98SE with latest Audigy Gamer drivers.
Oleg..please give us an option to disable all external sound that is not our own plane's noise ( i.e. our own engine..guns..landing gear..etc..). Also, great job on 1.21.

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 11:11 AM
Have you guys tried to disable that 'Enables Extensions' item that's mentioned in the Readme as a possible cure for some sound issues?



Message Edited on 12/04/0310:12AM by AchimT

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 01:19 PM
yes,same problem with and without,thks for suggestion /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 02:24 PM
The 'issue' is clear, I continue to talk to Oleg about it, be clear of this:

* it is part of the highly complex 3D binaural sound engine.


ie. when looking right or left you get positional sound - however, you get more sounds from external - it was designed to simulate human head movement.


Test this:

looking forward - do you hear as much?

then look right or left - you hear more



So, you are left with this choice:

"And then what to do with 3D binaural sound that simulate the human head? Switching off it means that we will not have other sound picture as it is in a sim..."

That is response - and I think that is correct response.

My response to that is:

"3D binaural sound would be simulated to hear sounds 'within' the cockpit - ie. I might get a different pitch engine sound when looking right. However, it is not to pick up external sounds in a 3D binaural sound. "

Now, I do not know if that is possible, we will need Oleg to respond to this.

This could be very tough to do - I do not know.

I think in them attempting to create this realistic human head 3d sound - it actually serves to amplify sounds external to the cockpit. This is what I see that needs to be changed - we can have 3d sound, but within the cockpit only.

Be patient, Oleg is listening and is engaged in looking at this.

S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Skies Virtual War
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http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


"What was truly obsolete happened to be the turning or dogfighting
combat that had been used during of WW I."

Erik Shilling - AVG - http://yarchive.net/mil/p40.html ( <A HREF=)" target=_blank>http://yarchive.net/mil/p40.html</a>


S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Skies Virtual War
Forum: http://fogwar.luftwaffe.net/forums/index.php
Website: http://www.forgottenskies.com
Visit 609IAP at http://takeoff.to/609IAP


http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


"What was truly obsolete happened to be the turning or dogfighting
combat that had been used during of WW I."

Erik Shilling - AVG - http://yarchive.net/mil/p40.html

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 02:46 PM
Recon,i'm presently backing up your arguments in mail exchange too,let's keep hope /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 03:17 PM
Here is my task, could use some help as well:

"send the NTRKs that show exactly all that you tell... For each track comment, like "from time 0,54 of track I turn head back and hear on a distance ..... the engine of enemy plane ....", etc

We tried to reproduce all that you tell and got absolutely other result."

We should exchange emails PB0_Roll.


S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Skies Virtual War
Forum: http://fogwar.luftwaffe.net/forums/index.php
Website: http://www.forgottenskies.com
Visit 609IAP at http://takeoff.to/609IAP


http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


"What was truly obsolete happened to be the turning or dogfighting
combat that had been used during of WW I."

Erik Shilling - AVG - http://yarchive.net/mil/p40.html

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 03:38 PM
"send the NTRKs that show exactly all that you
- tell... For each track comment, like "from time
- 0,54 of track I turn head back and hear on a
- distance ..... the engine of enemy plane ....", etc


We started preparing exactly this material yesterday, Recon...

It will be ready this evening and posted here and sent to Oleg as well...

We record tracks and then we record the wave by external recorder to let everyone hear what we hear...

From the extensive testing we did yesterday, it seems that sonar is muffled into a certain extent (thanks to Oleg and team for that, it is obvious that they are trying hard) but I can still hear planes at 500m...and Turbo can hear them at 2000m...

Moreover, we tested planes on the ground, Turbo´s plane had 50% throttle and mine had its engine idling and was standing some 15m behind the first one...with 50% throttle, Turbo heard my idling engine behind him, when he turned his head to the side, BUT!!! when he pushed throttle to 70% EVEN THE "DUM DUM DUM" of my idling engine started to sound LOUDER! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

While I can understand somebody might consider hearing a full throttle engine over some distance realistic (even thou it is not, actually) why should a pilot in a plane with 70% throttle hear an idling engine behind him is beyond me...

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 03:53 PM
Sound is still bad for me. Sitting in an He111 my engines sound like a million miles away and my escort's engines sound like they are my co-pilot. Flak bursts and artillery fire damn near burst my eardrums...which would be ok except for the fact they are over 20 kilometers away from me.

I've tried changing attenuation to no effect.

Setting 32 channels still cuts out the AI voice sounds. I have to resort to 16 channels.

If I disable extensions then everything sounds like it's coming from a small speaker, encased in a tin can, with treble turned way up, no bass and located about 50 feet behind me.

I'll say it again....the over-engineered the sound. In an effort to have extremely realistic sound they overshot and have a complete mess. No other sim I have has this much trouble with 3D positional sound. Maybe their engines aren't as advanced, maybe not as capable but they sure as hell are far more enjoyable and don't come anywhere near the really poor quality sound I get from IL2/FB.

It's like buying a car and being told how wonderful the engine is. Of course, it backfires, stalls and sometimes won't start but it's the best engineered engine in the world. Who cares if I can't drive it?

No, I don't have an SB/Creative card. I have a Hercules. The really poor sound quality I get from the game is pretty much ruining what was a very good sim for me.

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 04:14 PM
CSL_Kocour - that is good. Glad you are doing this.

My experience is with the positional sound - see if same for you: if looking straight ahead it is much better - but as soon as I turn left or right I can pick up sound.

(Good test for this: QMB - put 4 pe2's friendly - when you look forward, you can't hear them near as much if you turn to look toward them)

I do not know why they do not hear this - it's been obvious to everyone that has the game.


However, we will do what we have to do right? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Skies Virtual War
Forum: http://fogwar.luftwaffe.net/forums/index.php
Website: http://www.forgottenskies.com
Visit 609IAP at http://takeoff.to/609IAP


http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


"What was truly obsolete happened to be the turning or dogfighting
combat that had been used during of WW I."

Erik Shilling - AVG - http://yarchive.net/mil/p40.html


Message Edited on 12/04/0303:16PM by Recon_609IAP

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 04:19 PM
I had sblive. now I have soundstorm.

same result for both cards.


I don't think this is anything to do with the client side settings - this is the 3D sound engine of the game.

S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Skies Virtual War
Forum: http://fogwar.luftwaffe.net/forums/index.php
Website: http://www.forgottenskies.com
Visit 609IAP at http://takeoff.to/609IAP


http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


"What was truly obsolete happened to be the turning or dogfighting
combat that had been used during of WW I."

Erik Shilling - AVG - http://yarchive.net/mil/p40.html

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 04:20 PM
Poor sound compared with original IL2 Sturmovik. That is a fact.

I cannot believe that 1C:Maddox have released a major patch module to correct this bug -and others too- and the result still remain the same: a total sound mess.

It will be good to know which soundcard and setup 1C team have used in their computers. They claim their sound module is quite good. Most of users -me included- we are not agree.
It must be someone with a similar setup as the developers out there for sure who can send back the sound report and tell us if he is satisfied with the environmental sound.

Regards..



----------------
"Fuerza y Honor"

Lupin

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 04:26 PM
I ask Oleg if they hear this - he says they do not.


Now - how in the world could all of us experience this and he does not?

I'm concerned, if he says he can't hear anything, how will a track help him?

But, I will send, if anyone besides the guys listed here want to put together a track and send me to send to Oleg, PM me.


===============================

From Oleg Maddox
Sent Thursday, December 4, 2003 9:39 am
To 609IAP_Recon
Subject Re: Patch is Good - Sound

Yes I hear no noise.

----- Original Message -----
From: 609IAP_Recon
To: "Oleg Maddox"
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: Patch is Good - Sound


> I will send as you say..
>
> "We tried to reproduce all that you tell and got absolutely other result."
>
> You mean to tell me that everyone I fly with has this issue, but you claim
you do not?
>
> What is your result? You hear no noise?
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Oleg Maddox >
> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2003 8:19 am
> Subject: Re: Patch is Good - Sound
>
> > Steve,
> >
> > My sound engineer ask you to send the NTRKs that show exactly all
> > that you tell... For each track comment, like "from time 0,54 of
> > track I turn head back and hear on a distance ..... the engine of
> > enemy plane ....", etc
> >
> > We tried to reproduce all that you tell and got absolutely other
> > result.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: 609IAP_Recon
> > To: 'Oleg Maddox'
> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 4:01 PM
> > Subject: RE: Patch is Good - Sound
> >
> >
> > I hear it on maximum power
> >
> > Let me describe what is happening for #2 and I include
> > screenshots to show when I hear
> >
> > 1. When looking straight ahead - this is 'best' sound. Engine
> > is louder, I don't hear near as much
> >
> > a. when looking straight ahead:
> >
> > b. when looking right, left, up, down, etc.... This is where I
> > hear things - In my test I could hear Pe2 engines from 5km away -
> > in this screenshot, I could hear the pe2's firing at a 190.
> >
> > See sound1.jpg
> >
> > I will need to check online - as last night I would say I was
> > 3km away on the islands map and I would hear firing but didn't see
> > the planes. My teammate would call out for help on comms and I
> > would say "I hear the firing but cannot see you". (full real
> > settings)
> >
> > Another example - I am flying along at 3-4km, I turn my head to
> > the right - all of sudden I hear the buzzing of an engine - I will
> > check distance. I know I'm going to be bounced so I turn hard.
> >
> >
> >
> > Experiment 3:
> >
> > QMD - me in a p47d10 vs 190a5 - I fly straight at 190a5 - he
> > starts to veer right, I hear him with icons on straight ahead at
> > .60 - it goes away as he is at my 11oc (o'clock) now at around .9
> > to 1km.
> >
> >
> > Here is interesting note:
> >
> > I fly up beside the 190 - as I approach his 9 oc - I don't hear
> > him until .45 - BUT, I continue to hear him as I use rudder left
> > until at least 1km - then he veers back toward me - I can hear him
> > approaching me until on my six firing. HOWEVER, I do NOT hear him
> > if I'm looking STRAIGHT AHEAD - just when I turn my head left or
> > right.
> >
> >
> > Also:
> >
> > BACK SIX:
> >
> > I can hear bandit from as far as .80 BUT, only with my head
> > turned right or left - OR if they come in from the side.
> > Otherwise I do not hear them - this is at all speeds with
> > different power settings.
> >
> >
> > So, what is happening is that we all subconsciously know that as
> > part of checking around us when flying, we can simply **** our
> > heads slightly right or left to find bandits.
> >
> > That is the only problem I see when flying and testing: the
> > positional/directional sound is allowing us to hear more. What I
> > picture is that we hear the same when looking right and left -
> > that the engine sound inside would still drown out these other
> > sounds - as the pilot is sitting very close to the engine.
> >
> > This is the only current problem I see. Again in summary:
> >
> > **Sound is perfect when looking straight ahead - full engine
> > sound. When looking right or left, etc... or when bandit
> > approaches from sides - they are very easy to hear. If the sound
> > was the same as looking forward when looking right or left - it
> > would be fantastic I think***
> >
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Video Card: First I had a Sblive, I just bought a new
> > motherboard with Soundstorm (nvidia nforce - onboard the motherboard)
> >
> > Windows XP
> > Settings: headphones
> > channels: 16
> > 3d engine: default
> > sampling rate 22050
> >
> > no audio or hardware acceleration is on currently
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -----------
> > From: Oleg Maddox
> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 5:50 AM
> > To: 609IAP_Recon
> > Subject: Re: Patch is Good - Sound
> >
> >
> >
> > 1. On which power of you own aircraft engine you hear it inside
> > the cockpit. On Maximal power?
> > 2. What means very far. Please tell me exact measure/digit using
> > icons. 3. What the types of both sound cards.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: 609IAP_Recon
> > To: 'Oleg Maddox'
> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 7:44 AM
> > Subject: Patch is Good - Sound
> >
> >
> > Oleg,
> >
> > I enjoy the latest patch - very nice job.
> >
> > Regarding sound: It is still too much externals!
> >
> > There is nothing I read that speaks of listening to sounds - I
> > hear easily with two different sound cards:
> >
> > 1. firing from far away
> > 2. fly bys
> >
> >
> > I am sorry, you can be mad at me- but this is not right.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-
> > topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=ztowp
> >
> > Let me make this clear: We don't want to hear 1 or 2.
> >
> > S!
> > Recon
>
>
>







S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Skies Virtual War
Forum: http://fogwar.luftwaffe.net/forums/index.php
Website: http://www.forgottenskies.com
Visit 609IAP at http://takeoff.to/609IAP


http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


"What was truly obsolete happened to be the turning or dogfighting
combat that had been used during of WW I."

Erik Shilling - AVG - http://yarchive.net/mil/p40.html

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 07:38 PM
Yes, it´s the same for me (SB Live)...when I look forward, I can´t hear much, the moment I move my head and point my virtual ear to the source of noise, I can hear it quite well...a plane from 500m quite clearly

Same with the idle engine, when I look forward I can not hear it, when I look at wing, I can hear an idling engine behind me even if my own engine runs at 100%

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 07:45 PM
Please, ask him which soundcard and setup they are using in their computers.
It is another approach to reproduce the sound that they are actually hearing for someone who have exactly same setup.

Regards,
Lupin


Recon_609IAP wrote:
- I ask Oleg if they hear this - he says they do not.
-


----------------
"Fuerza y Honor"

Lupin

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 07:51 PM
The problem is the 3D sound itself. The engine noise should be treated as ambient when you are in cockpit, not as a directional sound like it is now.

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XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 08:39 PM
i think that death has summed it up...obviously it'll make Oleg sad,because he's pretty proud of including 3D sound.Now to convince him to change it...

Recon i mailed you,but my mail was returned.I read what you sent to oleg earlier,it pretty sum our problems.

We obviously NEED to know what sound card/drivers/OS/Mobo he's using to know if people with SAME setup hear what we hear.


Recon can you ask this information ? I'll ask it too...

XyZspineZyX
12-05-2003, 01:10 AM
You had the right email - how large was the file?


I asked him in email his sound card and his sound settings.

I would have thought they have several configuration test machines - but could be wrong.


S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Skies Virtual War
Forum: http://fogwar.luftwaffe.net/forums/index.php
Website: http://www.forgottenskies.com
Visit 609IAP at http://takeoff.to/609IAP


http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


"What was truly obsolete happened to be the turning or dogfighting
combat that had been used during of WW I."

Erik Shilling - AVG - http://yarchive.net/mil/p40.html


Message Edited on 12/05/0312:10AM by Recon_609IAP

XyZspineZyX
12-05-2003, 03:30 PM
He says he uses the recommended sound settings http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Skies Virtual War
Forum: http://fogwar.luftwaffe.net/forums/index.php
Website: http://www.forgottenskies.com
Visit 609IAP at http://takeoff.to/609IAP


http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


"What was truly obsolete happened to be the turning or dogfighting
combat that had been used during of WW I."

Erik Shilling - AVG - http://yarchive.net/mil/p40.html

XyZspineZyX
12-05-2003, 03:42 PM
Recon_609IAP wrote:
- He says he uses the recommended sound settings /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-

Same here, different result, /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif . My soundcard is an AC97 compliant, Sensaura software.
I do not understand why he is refusing to tell us which soundcard is using for.

Regards,


----------------
"Fuerza y Honor"

Lupin