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Desu_Vulthala
05-05-2017, 12:13 AM
This is obviously just based from my opinion and some might disagree on some things but... I played this game for over 200 hours, and I mean well over and got 5 heroes that are all past rep 3, so I do like to think I got a decent idea on what I am talking about.

Now this topic is going to be long, I will first go into the standard tier system for players, like S, A, and so on. Then I am gonna go through each hero and say what I think of them in current meta to my best knowledge.

S tier: warden, lawbringer.
There are really good, basically best heroes in the game.

A tier: warlord, peacekeeper.
Amazing heroes.

B tier: valk, shugoki.
Viable but not perfect.

C tier: berserker, orochi, raider, nobushi, conq. kensei.
The worst of the roster, might have as well made D bracket for some but as it stands, on high skill play, they can be still used somewhat.

Lets speak of meta. It is turtle for days and we all know it, you either got safe openers or you are playing a wrong hero. The solution that devs seem to come up with is a guess game, which not many of us like. Also I based my tier list on those things, how strong these heroes at the game and how well they can use their tools.

Lets speak the C tier heroes first.

Berserker, as funny as it is, most of his moves are usable to an extent, so why is he that bad? I play him and I can say why it is because all of his moves are punishable, so no matter if he can use his entire kit or not, if he going to get punished for doing anything, he is not going to be a good here. To open anyone up with berserker at higher skill, I usually have to spend half of his stam bar on some really tricky feint plays and even then you might get parried. He is a counter attacker and yet this notion is funny in this game because to counter attack you have to have someone to attack you and they go no reason to attack berserker because they have no fear of what he might do if they turtle. This is because he got no safe openers, like wartden or lb do. The enemy knows that all they got to do is just block, not even parry, just block, and there nothing a berserker can do to them.

What I do suggest is a safe opener added to berserker, he is an attacker so he needs tools to start on his opress.

Raider is simply lacking punishes. He can throw people after gb and that can be useful but over all his main game comes from heavies into top lights or zone feints. Any decent player can swap guard fast enough to top, this is once again, just block and don't parry thing, and raider loses his one tool. Then there is zone, which actually you can flat out beat with some other heroes zone attacks.

What I do suggest is adding hyperarmor to his zone and reducing its stam, that way he can't get hit out of it and can use it for mix ups better. Then also add dmg to his knee to the face on throw.

Nobushi is the odd one. Shes got dmg, a reach, bleed, and dmg that scales on bleed, not to mention her move set is mostly useful. She also can't be punished with gb on parry 100% of the time, I've done it, but mostly when there is a wall involved. So with this hero I am really torn, she should be good and yet she is not. Her attacks are pretty slow but it be absurd to make them faster considering how much dmg she does and what reach she has. I also hardly played her myself so I really leave this to someone else to come up with a buff for her.

Orochi... what a bad hero. Everyone used to play him because of appeal but there less people play him now because he is just not good. We all know the story, he got two moves that are viable and by this time I can parry his top light rather fine, I also know how to beat his flicker zone, I have not mastered it yet, but it's not that hard once I practice it. What you got to do is watch the hero, not indicator, if you see him start spinning, block right. His deflect game is strong but there is a problem, he needs people to attack him to deflect and just like with berserker, people got no reason to do that. What makes him trully bad is how his large kit does not chain or even useful. Riptide gets you parried and you better off just parrying. The storm rush is insanely hard to land and you can't even land it on reaction when you dodge out of attacks with it, because people recover to quick. It wont always give you top light either. The gb cancel on storm rush got very small window, and despite me landing it alright in 4 v 4, in 1 v 1 it is pretty easily punishable. He also got no safe openers.

What I suggest is making his storm rush work like hidden stance or full guard, you press C, he dodges out, release it and he goes in. Make it so que time for it faster, the run is faster and longer, the feint window is longer, the gb window is longer, and that top light is 100% follow up. Also make riptide feintable. Thats a large buff but he needs it, plus let me remind you that lb got even bigger buff before.

Conq, is just really bad now. He was one trick pony and now that trick been taken away. He simply needs a rework to where he has more moves but nothing like where he was like before, when he could kill anyone with spam.

Kensei is still not very good, he can be very fun to play, his mixups are great but they eat so much stamina, not to mention that his first top heavy does low dmg. Despite people believing that he can't kill after gb if you got one bar of hp left, he can, with side heavy. He got reach and decent speed but he is still bad, so why? Thats because his chain needs a dash attack that is easily blocked, but it can be wiffed and then you can go into his mix up. The problem with mix up is that all you got to do is stand still and simply react. He also has this strange lock out of dashes if he is blocked, which is annoying.

What can be done is remove that lock out thing, you should always be able to dash. Also I do like to see him being able to feint his dash attacks, see how that goes.

The B tier now.

Valk, got great chains but is punishable and reachable to, which is great, I play valk and thats how I want her to be. She got low dmg but good attack speed. What is not amazing though is how any dash attack is punishable on gb on block, why? Then how she similarly to kensei locked out from most of her move sat if she is blocked.

What to do, make so that her dash attacks are not punishable by gb on block, and so that she does not have this delay on when she can use her moves again when blocked and so on. I do also like to see her full block stance que to be speed up.

Shugoki, a good hero when you play him like a turtle, real hard to get around but kind of falls apart if he attacks out of revenge.

What I suggest is adding his headbut as start up move or on block. No it wont be too op because it wont have a follow up, and thats the idea. Just to block people, displace them closer to the wall, not to give you just a free hit. Also no dmg done by it.

Then we got A tier.

The warlord is strong but I feel like people adapt to him by now. He is very powerful when played like turtle and he got tools for it but he also got decent offense and thats where it gets tricky. We got turtles like warlord who got defense but also got safe openers that attackers like assassins need but do not have, why?

What to do? Nothing for now, why? Because I want every hero to be in A tier, so buff others bellow A tier and then see if warlord still too much for them, if yes then we can nerf him.

Peacekeeper! Only scary in hand of good players, easy to beat in low or mid skill play. They play very recklessly and thats their downfall. Although pk is still the best assassin, her kit is amazing and very useful, she got dmg, best dash attacks, bleeds, and best attack speed and zone.

What to do? Once again nothing, we can keep her as she is for now, and if my praises were answered to and other assassins got safe openers then pk should not get one, because her lights are already good enough.

The S tier, we are in it now.

The warden, just very simply put, the best hero in the game. He got everything and his everything works together. He got fast top lights, fast zone, safe openers, heavy dmg on knock down, the 50/50, stam dmg, slow attacks that are good for feints, like top heavies. I mean really? Why all of this. He is the only hero who can parry once and go into his shoulder bash spam. You can roll out of it but devs said they wanna fix it to where you can't do it as easily. He also does stam dmg, so if you ever go exhausted vs warden you got to just eat those lights from shoulder bash, because if you dash and get gb, you eat his top heavies.

The lawbringer got overbuffed so hard that now he is simply a beast. He got hp, dmg, mixups, kind of a 50/50, can't be punished with gb on missed shove, can shove out of block, can do insane dmg on single parry and can keep you out of stamina forever.

I also want to speak about both warden and lb together. They both are top turtles, they got no reason to attack and yet if they want to, both for several options for them to do so, Like lb shove got hyper armor and can't be punished by gb, same like wardens shoulder bash can't be punished by gb. Both got blocks that do not go down, they can just block one side forever, which makes it so much easier to deal with likes of orochi. So these heroes that are turtle primes, really should not have safe openers like they do now, but they already have them and people would rage if shoulder bash or shove was deleted so there other ways.

For one I do not believe they should be able to punish as hard as they do when you are out of stam, because it takes half or more of stam bar to even hit rhem with light and then they drain your stam with safe openers. This can be fixed by removing stam dmg on shoulder bash and reducing it on lb moves. Also majority of other heroes should get safe openers that can't be blocked or parried, but must be reacted to with rolls or dashes. Also I do believe that whole reflex guard needs to be removed because it does put assassins on disadvantage while their dash attacks do no make up for it, because they can be easily parried.

Netcode_err_404
05-05-2017, 12:49 AM
Stopped to read after you said warden and LB are s tier, and warlord A tier.

Am i drunk or you said it for real ?

slasht14
05-05-2017, 02:10 AM
just stop......my eyes are burning!!!!

TheLastPandaa
05-05-2017, 02:22 AM
More or less, based on my personal experience playing this game, this is the way i see 1vs1 tier list ON CONSOLE after 1'6.

1.SHUGOKI
2.WARLORD
3.VALK
4.PK
5.WARDEN
6.LB
7.KENSEI
8.NOBU
9.OROCHI
10.CONQUEROR
11.ZERKER
12.RAIDER

slasht14
05-05-2017, 02:30 AM
More or less, based on my personal experience playing this game, this is the way i see 1vs1 tier list ON CONSOLE after 1'6.

1.SHUGOKI
2.WARLORD
3.VALK
4.PK
5.WARDEN
6.LB
7.KENSEI
8.NOBU
9.OROCHI
10.CONQUEROR
11.ZERKER
12.RAIDER

For me its :
1.WARLORD
2.PK
3.VALK
4WARDEN
5.SHUGOKI
6.KENSEI
7.OROCHI
8.LB
9.NOBU
10.RAIDER
11.ZERKER
12.CONQ

Desu_Vulthala
05-05-2017, 07:15 AM
Guys, I adore all of your response, I really do, but I here listed a page worth of information. You just simply saying that you agree or disagree, and just putting your opinion in form of heroes with number next to them, all of this amounts to nothing because you give 0 insight. If you think that warlord is better than lb or warden, tell me why. Tell me how his headbut that lets him only do small dmg is better than shoulder bash 50/50 or a hyper armor shove on block.

Netcode_err_404
05-05-2017, 01:31 PM
Guys, I adore all of your response, I really do, but I here listed a page worth of information. You just simply saying that you agree or disagree, and just putting your opinion in form of heroes with number next to them, all of this amounts to nothing because you give 0 insight. If you think that warlord is better than lb or warden, tell me why. Tell me how his headbut that lets him only do small dmg is better than shoulder bash 50/50 or a hyper armor shove on block.

Watch any tourney final, and see for yoyurself. There is a reasons "top players" cheese the tournament with wardenpk and warlord, and not with kensei or LB.

TheLastPandaa
05-05-2017, 03:43 PM
Guys, I adore all of your response, I really do, but I here listed a page worth of information. You just simply saying that you agree or disagree, and just putting your opinion in form of heroes with number next to them, all of this amounts to nothing because you give 0 insight. If you think that warlord is better than lb or warden, tell me why. Tell me how his headbut that lets him only do small dmg is better than shoulder bash 50/50 or a hyper armor shove on block.

Sorry, you are right. I will try to give a small explanation of my list:

1.SHUGOKI: Hyper armour, huge dmg per hit and the hability to oneshot you with his demons embrace no mater if you are full health. In my opinion every habilitie that can instakill you on a fighting game (no matter how hard is to use it) is a game breaker.
2.WARLORD. Hyper armour on heavy, huge throwing distance, crazy defence, decent speed on his lights, granted Gb after a parry, HB to open fights and a few other cool mixups makes hom a monster. Would be on the top of my list if Shugo did not have his oneshot kill move.
3.VALK. She is a pain in the neck on console due to her speed and dmg. But what makes her so strong is her 50/50.
4.PK. Very very easy tu use and very easy combine combos with her. She is a shadow of what she once was, but she still hit very fast and hard, not to mention her bleedind dmg. If you dare to relax a bit infront a PK, you are dead.
5.WARDEN. I think he still a strong, but now, all he does can be avoided and countered very easy. He requires certan skill now because he demands you to play mind games with feints if you want to deal any dmg.
6.LB. I think Warden is a character that can counter very well all LB can do, so thats why he is under him.
7.KENSEI. Basically a samurai warden but weaker.
8.NOBU. She can be a killing machine in the right hands, but if you know her moves is very easy to counter and punish.
9.OROCHI. Top light and ZA are really his only real tools. All the rest he can do are only complements.
10.CONQUEROR. RIP conqueror.
11.ZERKER. If you try to parry a zerk you are dead. Conclusion? dont parry a zerk.
12.RAIDER. Needs no explanation.