PDA

View Full Version : Ubisoft, your positioning about console issue and gameplay difference



Gokudo31
05-04-2017, 02:59 PM
So soon, it will be the s2 but ubisoft has not mentioned a word about console issue.

We are the majority of players and yet, we are ignored.
Examples on console, there is no "turtle" meta because it's really harder to parry light. bluetooth , controler input delay, dead zone, display delay ( bigger on tv than on pc monitor ) , non optimise internet protocole ( for example pc gamers can disable Nagle's algorithm ), frame per second
Everything put together gives us between 100 and 200 ms less time to react to any action.
It's another game, it's harder to parry Heavy attack and tricky to parry light although it's clearly easier on pc.
Here a guy which tried to show how we are bothered by all those external factor on console. https://i.redd.it/qwwqxno8hdmy.jpg

So now will come the S2 where ubisoft is happy to deliver the long waited change but for who ?
On pc, the community is really small and there are the only one which complain about the fact that it's too easy to parry and the reward is too high for the risk.
On the other side, consoles players are still waiting that you fix dead zone and/or you take in consideration the fact that we don't play on computer and we can't have the same performance than an average 500€ computer.

We want you to fix dead zone and we want you to give us a proper balancing for console only. We are tired to undergo pc whining and be ignored on console one.

Example :
Lawbringer is not 50/50 on pc, you can react to the lighattack. Not on console
Cancel grab on warden is a lesser issue on console because it's harder to get a parry from it. you nerfed it from pc perspective.
You don't want to nerf pk light because it's not super hard to react on pc but on console it's a nightmare. The same can be said for valkyrie.


So my question is simple : When will you stop to ignore us for the benefit of a community who has already left your game ?

Herbstlicht
05-04-2017, 03:22 PM
This has been brought up a lot. Ubi never took position yet. Despite all the issues being valid and the continued ignorance my biggest concern these days.

Lumina-US
05-04-2017, 03:23 PM
So soon, it will be the s2 but ubisoft has not mentioned a word about console issue.

We are the majority of players and yet, we are ignored.
Examples on console, there is no "turtle" meta because it's really harder to parry light. bluetooth , controler input delay, dead zone, display delay ( bigger on tv than on pc monitor ) , non optimise internet protocole ( for example pc gamers can disable Nagle's algorithm ), frame per second
Everything put together gives us between 100 and 200 ms less time to react to any action.
It's another game, it's harder to parry Heavy attack and tricky to parry light although it's clearly easier on pc.
Here a guy which tried to show how we are bothered by all those external factor on console. https://i.redd.it/qwwqxno8hdmy.jpg

So now will come the S2 where ubisoft is happy to deliver the long waited change but for who ?
On pc, the community is really small and there are the only one which complain about the fact that it's too easy to parry and the reward is too high for the risk.
On the other side, consoles players are still waiting that you fix dead zone and/or you take in consideration the fact that we don't play on computer and we can't have the same performance than an average 500 computer.

We want you to fix dead zone and we want you to give us a proper balancing for console only. We are tired to undergo pc whining and be ignored on console one.

Example :
Lawbringer is not 50/50 on pc, you can react to the lighattack. Not on console
Cancel grab on warden is a lesser issue on console because it's harder to get a parry from it. you nerfed it from pc perspective.
You don't want to nerf pk light because it's not super hard to react on pc but on console it's a nightmare. The same can be said for valkyrie.


So my question is simple : When will you stop to ignore us for the benefit of a community who has already left your game ?Signed - couldn't have said it any better myself.

Sadly, for as long as Ubisoft keeps nerfing and buffing things on PC-based data, things will never change and we will be kept being treated like exiles.

Antonioj26
05-04-2017, 03:25 PM
I understand resentment and bad tempers towards these problems. But I dont notice them personally. as I am a relative newcomer to PvP games... so never needed to pay attention. But I know 100-200ms is bad, lag is lag. but even still if you can get to where you can block or atk despite this, doesnt that make you a btter player. instead of having to out of the box have to have these options like the pc players do? doesn't that make you a better player xD

In fighting games 1 frame off can make the difference in the world and it doesn't matter how Good you are if it's not consistent.

Egotistic_Ez
05-04-2017, 03:35 PM
The sad thing is it isn't that hard to "fix". All of the above essentially translates to "less time to react". Simply give players on PC (and console to normalise everyone) a fraction of a second input delay on things like stance changes and gb escapes. This way everyone has the same window of unresponsiveness and you can then balance things like light attacks far easier since you have an accurate base line.

And no it wouldn't feel terrible because the animation would play as normal.

Gokudo31
05-04-2017, 04:17 PM
Still no answer from ubi :/

Herbstlicht
05-04-2017, 04:43 PM
Well, just keep this thread up. Maybe, this time at Warriors Den, they will comment on those issues. Btw, isn't today a new warriors den?

Lumina-US
05-04-2017, 04:45 PM
Still no answer from ubi :/And you highly likely won't get any in the future, considering all the devs care for is to please their PCers - none of 'em plays the game on either console.

As PC-Principal would say - Hey that ain't PC bro.

DrExtrem
05-04-2017, 07:34 PM
I have tears in my eyes.

Beautiful post.

RatedChaotic
05-04-2017, 08:06 PM
They did say that they are looking into the data with adjustments they make and the impacts on both pc vs console versions. They want to look at changes done as a whole before committing a change on this version other than that version. They also stated they are working on sliders for deadzones and remapping options for both versions. Did you not watch the Warriors Den?

Personally making changes for both versions and looking at the data before a firm decision is better imo. It will make the adjustments easier.

DrExtrem
05-04-2017, 08:17 PM
They did say that they are looking into the data with adjustments they make and the impacts on both pc vs console versions. They want to look at changes done as a whole before committing a change on this version other than that version. They also stated they are working on sliders for deadzones and remapping options for both versions. Did you not watch the Warriors Den?

Personally making changes for both versions and looking at the data before a firm decision is better imo. It will make the adjustments easier.

They struggle with the idea that they have created two different games, that both need separate adjustments. Off course that's a s**t load of work.

I don't think, that "fixing" controller deadzones alone, will do the trick. It will certainly help but it is only a part of the problem.

Lumina-US
05-04-2017, 08:25 PM
They did say that they are looking into the data with adjustments they make and the impacts on both pc vs console versions. They want to look at changes done as a whole before committing a change on this version other than that version. They also stated they are working on sliders for deadzones and remapping options for both versions. Did you not watch the Warriors Den?They "said" a lot of things in the past - where are the results?

And tbh. why anyone should watch those streams (mostly full of nonsense and a looot of air, as well as empty promises) is beyond me.

See the "something very different and well worth fighting for" stuff we got for Season 1 - well worth my a...
(plus tons of people didn't even get THAT!)

I got better things to do than sacrifing them about 1 and a half hours of my lifetime, for nothing but a lot of blah blah blah.

CandleInTheDark
05-04-2017, 08:29 PM
They struggle with the idea that they have created two different games, that both need separate adjustments. Off course that's a s**t load of work.

I don't think, that "fixing" controller deadzones alone, will do the trick. It will certainly help but it is only a part of the problem.

They also said that the character most complained about because of her speed actually has a lower win rate on console than on pc, so players seem to be handling it well enough, I suspect because on the pc they have always had to use their mixup as opposed to light spam.

DrExtrem
05-04-2017, 08:44 PM
They also said that the character most complained about because of her speed actually has a lower win rate on console than on pc, so players seem to be handling it well enough, I suspect because on the pc they have always had to use their mixup as opposed to light spam.

Win rate and on combat effectivity are two different pair of shoes.

I guess a lot of people try to play her correctly - something quite difficult.

CandleInTheDark
05-04-2017, 08:50 PM
Win rate and on combat effectivity are two different pair of shoes.

I guess a lot of people try to play her correctly - something quite difficult.

I am one of those who said they need rebalancing on the console, at the same time I am willing to give what they are doing a chance. I can speak for remapping and deadzones making a difference because I already have that on the elite controller. They're going in the right direction with the peacekeeper I think, people who stick with her are going to have to use her kit witth the last nerf or they are going to find they are trading with people who can deal more damage when they leave themselves open to lights and guardbreaks. Played properly she is an intense matchup, I played a mirror match with someone last night and we both did pretty much everything but double light between us.

Herbstlicht
05-04-2017, 09:00 PM
For now, their response is enough for me. Finally, they answered. and it isn' that i don't enjoy the game, was just worried due to their past approaches on other games.

DrExtrem
05-04-2017, 10:27 PM
I am also willing to give them a chance.

But they have to deliver. If they ignore console specific balancing and continue to balance based on PC data, they will lose what little is left.

After all those lip services and balancing decisions based on PC data, I am only willing to judge them based on actions and not words.

UbiNoty
05-05-2017, 12:40 AM
While we don't have plans for this at the moment, if we see that the changes we have planned to fix the problems (deadzone sliders, controller remapping, etc) aren't enough to address all the issues, we'll revisit the idea once again

Capoupacap
05-05-2017, 12:01 PM
So soon, it will be the s2 but ubisoft has not mentioned a word about console issue.

We are the majority of players and yet, we are ignored.
Examples on console, there is no "turtle" meta because it's really harder to parry light. bluetooth , controler input delay, dead zone, display delay ( bigger on tv than on pc monitor ) , non optimise internet protocole ( for example pc gamers can disable Nagle's algorithm ), frame per second
Everything put together gives us between 100 and 200 ms less time to react to any action.
It's another game, it's harder to parry Heavy attack and tricky to parry light although it's clearly easier on pc.
Here a guy which tried to show how we are bothered by all those external factor on console. https://i.redd.it/qwwqxno8hdmy.jpg

So now will come the S2 where ubisoft is happy to deliver the long waited change but for who ?
On pc, the community is really small and there are the only one which complain about the fact that it's too easy to parry and the reward is too high for the risk.
On the other side, consoles players are still waiting that you fix dead zone and/or you take in consideration the fact that we don't play on computer and we can't have the same performance than an average 500 computer.

We want you to fix dead zone and we want you to give us a proper balancing for console only. We are tired to undergo pc whining and be ignored on console one.

Example :
Lawbringer is not 50/50 on pc, you can react to the lighattack. Not on console
Cancel grab on warden is a lesser issue on console because it's harder to get a parry from it. you nerfed it from pc perspective.
You don't want to nerf pk light because it's not super hard to react on pc but on console it's a nightmare. The same can be said for valkyrie.


Here is a report:


So my question is simple : When will you stop to ignore us for the benefit of a community who has already left your game ?


I had exactly the same conclusion. Elite xbox controler has a option where you can set response to instantaneous (main a slight move with the stick will be like you push it to the end) that does slight changes.

I have seen a HUGE difference with setting my xbox on ethernet cable and controler wired and you don't have to suffer from battery anymore :p

But the real impact on gameplay was setting the TV on game mode !!! While graphics quality is decreased slightly, it has a huge impact on block and counterguard break. Before if the heavy attack was coming from another direction from my guard setting, I didn't have the secured time to parry it. Now it's really manageable.

Huge impact post Gokudo01, it really help me !!!

Capoupacap
05-05-2017, 12:06 PM
Ubinoty, the average reaction time on a reflex test where the subject have to press a single button, finger on it and be aware of the stimulation signal is mostly 190ms... When reaction time condition on guard break for example is set to 200ms if I'm right... Change in set up and dead zone won't have a real impact on this issue on console.

You should look closely to this game mode option on television first and to the other option then.

Egotistic_Ez
05-05-2017, 12:21 PM
While we don't have plans for this at the moment, if we see that the changes we have planned to fix the problems (deadzone sliders, controller remapping, etc) aren't enough to address all the issues, we'll revisit the idea once again

If you don't want to balance for individual platforms that's fine, but your player base is largely on console. You should be balancing for us, not that one guy who still plays on pc.

mathi4s
05-05-2017, 01:09 PM
This is probably the most important thread in the entire forum. The fact that the devs only yesterday aknowledged these problems is staggeringly Alarming to say the least. So many arguments on the internet are made that come from this problem. People arguing about moves reactable/not reactable from which stem arguments about classes beying variously effective. Classes that are widely known to be trash like the kensei Raider nobushi berserker on the PC are OK in the eyes of the console players and therefor ubisoft which probably bases their stats of of them. How else could have they come to that conclusion?

Spamming lights is apparently a viable tactic on the console with any character while on the pc it's pure madness considering the high probability of beying parryed. Ubisoft fails to acknowledge that they are trying to balance two different games with the same measures not to mention that the 4v4 modes and the duels are worlds of their own as well. no wonder no one agrees on anything.
The devs are actually trying to balance 4 games with the same patch. And they will keep doing it this way again and again. This is utter madness in its purest form.

"Do you know what is the definition of insanity?". For honor dev support.

KiahsRevenge
05-05-2017, 09:30 PM
Playing on Xbox is a lot faster paced then pc from what I have seen. The turtle meta is less of a problem depending on what char you are using. I like the fact the light attacks are almost un parryable on Xbox.except for PK as she is stupid fast with her lights.I don't like it when I parry a heavy only for it Togo through or lag in affect. I agree though that consoles and pc needs to be patched differently.

skru_loose
05-05-2017, 11:00 PM
While we don't have plans for this at the moment, if we see that the changes we have planned to fix the problems (deadzone sliders, controller remapping, etc) aren't enough to address all the issues, we'll revisit the idea once again
Firstly, to the OP well said good sir! Secondly to the ubisoft rep I quoted above, your platitudes are pointless and do not give faith in ubisoft, if ubisoft means to fix these things then they need to do it sooner and not later. The longer they delay with desperately needed fixes and features the less population will be around to see it, bad word of mouth travels freakishly quick and as it is this is my last ever ubisoft product, but if a proper effort is made at least for honor might yet be viable as something other than a disgusting ubisoft cash grab.

Rikuto01.tv
05-05-2017, 11:44 PM
What's funny is that I have all three versions of this game and the console versions are by far the most playable on a competitive level, even if people are tricked into thinking otherwise.

Yea, you can react way better on PC, but that's exactly why that version has its broken turtle meta. Why the hell would you want that? Guessing and reaction situations are a requirement of any good fighting game. They go hand in hand. On PC you react to nearly everything so there is no need for range control. Having to guess defensively is punishment for failing to space. Without that it's just a game of slap jack.


144 fps sure feels better than 30 fps, but if the gameplay meta is complete cancer I'm not touching that version.

DrExtrem
05-06-2017, 12:01 AM
What's funny is that I have all three versions of this game and the console versions are by far the most playable on a competitive level, even if people are tricked into thinking otherwise.

Yea, you can react way better on PC, but that's exactly why that version has its broken turtle meta. Why the hell would you want that? Guessing and reaction situations are a requirement of any good fighting game. They go hand in hand. On PC you react to nearly everything so there is no need for range control. Having to guess defensively is punishment for failing to space. Without that it's just a game of slap jack.


144 fps sure feels better than 30 fps, but if the gameplay meta is complete cancer I'm not touching that version.

That might be true. The console versions still need fine tuning though.

Egotistic_Ez
05-06-2017, 01:52 AM
Yea, you can react way better on PC, but that's exactly why that version has its broken turtle meta. Why the hell would you want that? Guessing and reaction situations are a requirement of any good fighting game. They go hand in hand. On PC you react to nearly everything so there is no need for range control. Having to guess defensively is punishment for failing to space. Without that it's just a game of slap jack.

I agree with you in theory. The problem though is that game balance is done for the PC and then applied to consoles as well. If a character with fast moves is under-performing on PC, but is fine on console because of said fast moves, then they will get buffed and become OP.

seniornacho5
05-06-2017, 03:59 AM
While we don't have plans for this at the moment, if we see that the changes we have planned to fix the problems (deadzone sliders, controller remapping, etc) aren't enough to address all the issues, we'll revisit the idea once again
This is something I've been wondering about for a while. When will we get a concrete answer about whether or not 60 fps/ separate balancing is being worked on for consoles? It has been said on the May 4th dev stream and again here that if deadzone sliders/ remapping doesn't work the issue will be "revisited/ looked at." What exactly does that mean? Can we get some acknowledgment on the next Warrior's Den saying "yeah we are at least looking at increasing frame rate/ separate balancing?"