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wickedpenguin
08-04-2004, 01:34 PM
Found these on another forum.

Stalingrad - This one's begging for some kind of caption...
http://cynical_bear.chat.ru/WW2/1943/1943,%20Stalingrad%202.jpg

IL-2's over Berlin:
http://cynical_bear.chat.ru/WW2/1945/1945,%20Berlin.jpg

Moment of victory in Berlin:
http://cynical_bear.chat.ru/WW2/1945/1945,%20Berlin,%20moment%20of%20Vi%f1tory.jpg

What kind of aircraft are these?
http://cynical_bear.chat.ru/WW2/1943/1943,%20Orel%20area%202.jpg

There's a whole slew more at this site, mostly infantry/ground related:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20365&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

"Fear is the mindkiller"
- Dune
----------------------------------
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wickedpenguin
08-04-2004, 01:34 PM
Found these on another forum.

Stalingrad - This one's begging for some kind of caption...
http://cynical_bear.chat.ru/WW2/1943/1943,%20Stalingrad%202.jpg

IL-2's over Berlin:
http://cynical_bear.chat.ru/WW2/1945/1945,%20Berlin.jpg

Moment of victory in Berlin:
http://cynical_bear.chat.ru/WW2/1945/1945,%20Berlin,%20moment%20of%20Vi%f1tory.jpg

What kind of aircraft are these?
http://cynical_bear.chat.ru/WW2/1943/1943,%20Orel%20area%202.jpg

There's a whole slew more at this site, mostly infantry/ground related:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20365&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

"Fear is the mindkiller"
- Dune
----------------------------------
[b]Wicked Penguin Corporation[/b[
Web - Flash - Multimedia - DVD Authoring

Korolov
08-04-2004, 01:49 PM
The last pic is of Pe-2s. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

BoneRattler
08-04-2004, 02:25 PM
Must have been some sight, flying over berlin as a gunner and watching buildings passing underneath.

bazzaah2
08-04-2004, 02:41 PM
dang, now where's the respawn button on this machine?

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_05.gif

Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

Normally Spiny Norman was wont to be about
twelve feet from snout to tail, but when Dinsdale was depressed Norman could be
anything up to eight hundred yards long.

PraetorHonoris
08-04-2004, 03:28 PM
The Flag on the Reichstag picture is actualy a movie scene and I have seen these Il2 flying over various grounds.

Classic fakes.

http://img15.exs.cx/img15/8182/siglan1.jpg

Tooz_69GIAP
08-04-2004, 06:36 PM
Well, I had a look at my warbird pix, and I found this one. It's pretty much the same as the one above with the IL-2s, cept slightly poorer quality.

http://baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/69_giap_private/images/Il2-007.jpg

I'm not that good at spotting fakes, unless it is glaringly obvious, but this one doesn't seem so obvious to me.

Although, when I found the picture originially, there was no caption. It was simply just some IL-2s flying over some destroyed cityscape.

Also, you have to consider that IL-2s did fly over Berlin, and the Soviet flag was flown from the top of the Reichstag!!! So whether the photographs are fake or not doesn't change the actuality of these events.

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_tooz.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)
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NTESLA
08-04-2004, 09:18 PM
But the first picture with the 109 seems fake unless the Luftwaffe at the end started to paint their swasticas reverse http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://fluxout.homestead.com/files/Thx-32x.jpg

"You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you"

Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

Agamemnon22
08-04-2004, 09:30 PM
The crashed 109 seems cg. I can't put my finger on it, but I think the lighting is too sharp, and the aged film effect looks fake. Damn good cg tho, except for that backward swastika http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RAAF_Edin
08-04-2004, 09:32 PM
Actually the original symbol is exactly like that (anticlockwise) and is a simbol of luck and power. Only Hitler gave it a bad name. I read a few things about it... and the christian cross and it's a really good read but anyway, I'm not gonna get into any debate about it since it's gonna turn out good.

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Edin "Kuky" Kulelija
No76 Squadron RAAF

wickedpenguin
08-04-2004, 09:43 PM
As far as reversed swastikas go, it could simply be a flipped scan or negative.

What bugs me about the 109 shot is that if a plane was shot down and actually impacted the ground like that it, the front end would have been completely smashed. Here it looks like it was just sitting on the ground, being worked on, and was hit by an artillery shell or something from behind and thrown.

Regardless of them being real or not, they are interesting images. Honestly, I don't know too much about the specifics of ETO history, so I'm not a good judge of these images' validity. I just saw a link to them on the Red Orchestra forums.

"Fear is the mindkiller"
- Dune
----------------------------------
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Web - Flash - Multimedia - DVD Authoring

Agamemnon22
08-04-2004, 09:45 PM
Yeah, the swastika was around long before Hitler, was used in catherdrals and such around Europe, both clockwise and counter-clockwise versions. Apperently one represented good, one evil, kind of like the ying and the yang. Except Hitler's swastika is clockwise. I got a 109 model in front of me and it has the swastika clockwise.

BoneRattler
08-05-2004, 01:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PraetorHonoris:
The Flag on the Reichstag picture is actualy a movie scene<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What's your source on this? I've got several World War Two books who all have that pic in them and none of them mention anything about it being a fake. Hell, if it was they wouldn't be putting it in the book would they? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

WTE_Galway
08-05-2004, 01:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
Well, I had a look at my warbird pix, and I found this one. It's pretty much the same as the one above with the IL-2s, cept slightly poorer quality.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tooz_69GIAP that IL2 is from a documentary of some sort, possibly about stalingrad

i have definitely seen that exact shot but it was a movie clip .. unfortunately i have 100's of hours of WWII footage so I cannot recall now exactly where I saw it.

SUPERAEREO
08-05-2004, 02:09 AM
The photo of the 109 is just an inverted negative (hence the backwards swastika).

By the look of the photo it could be an Italian city (or Greek?) and the 109 seems to have a desert camouflage and a Mediterranean theatre white band on the fuselage.

S!



"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down." - Chuck Yaeger

"Ja, Hunde, wollt ihr denn ewig leben?" - Friedrich der Große

"Timeo Danaos, et dona ferentes" - *neid

PraetorHonoris
08-05-2004, 02:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BoneRattler:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PraetorHonoris:
The Flag on the Reichstag picture is actualy a movie scene<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What's your source on this? I've got several World War Two books who all have that pic in them and none of them mention anything about it being a fake. Hell, if it was they wouldn't be putting it in the book would they? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't be that dumb! Stalin is pictured in many books and mostly there is no description wether is was a propaganda pic or not. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

You are asking for sources, ok. Hilmar Hoffmann "Und die Fahne führt uns in die Ewigkeit - Propaganda im Film", Fischer Verlag, Frankfurt a.M., published in 1998, is about propaganda in movies only.
Moreover there is an exibition in the Kapitulationsmuseum (surrender museum) Karlshorst, which is a cooperation between Germans and Russians.
Even most of the Encyclopediae are providing this fact.
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Reichstag_(building)

I do not denie, that this pic was taken in Berlin, how could I?
But it was not taken in Battle, but on May 2, days after battle was over! The Photographer was Yevgeny Khaldei.
Besides, the soldiers raising the flag, being awarded were from Gori, just like Stalin, interessting co-incedent... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Then this pic was shown in the propaganda movie "Battle for Berlin", which I had to watch, when I was young.
See, I raised up in a communist dictature. I am very sensitive concerning propaganda.

http://img15.exs.cx/img15/8182/siglan1.jpg

BoneRattler
08-05-2004, 02:34 AM
Oh, that kind of movie. I thought you meant a movie that wasn't shot during WW2 at all, like the ones we get to see in the cinema these days, just older. My bad http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Bewolf
08-05-2004, 03:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SUPERAEREO:
The photo of the 109 is just an inverted negative (hence the backwards swastika).

By the look of the photo it could be an Italian city (or Greek?) and the 109 seems to have a desert camouflage and a Mediterranean theatre white band on the fuselage.

S!



"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down." - Chuck Yaeger

"Ja, Hunde, wollt ihr denn ewig leben?" - Friedrich der Große

"Timeo Danaos, et dona ferentes" - *neid<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Naw, it's a yellow "eastern Front" Band. Compare the color with the white of the cross. Its a tad darker.

Bewolf

Never discuss with stupid people.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.