PDA

View Full Version : Public Service Announcement: Group up means GROUP UP......



CoyoteXStarrk
04-30-2017, 09:51 AM
What Group Up DOESN'T mean


- It doesn't mean go dive into B and kill meaningless minions WHEN WE ALREADY HAVE THE POINT while your team is dying on A and C


- It doesn't mean try to be a 1 man gank squad and dive into groups of 3 enemies


- It doesn't mean I gotta AFK in spawn cuz lol reasons bruh


- It doesn't mean run away to save your precious K/D while your teammate dies to a 2 v 1




What Group Up DOES mean


GROUP THE HECK UP AND STOP DYING ALONE LIKE AN IDIOT

SendRickPics
04-30-2017, 10:28 AM
What's that? You can get the Pubbies to actually coordinate effectively? Wow, wouldn't it be something if there was a function that allowed individual skill to rise above gang bang cuckery?

CoyoteXStarrk
04-30-2017, 10:43 AM
What's that? You can get the Pubbies to actually coordinate effectively? Wow, wouldn't it be something if there was a function that allowed individual skill to rise above gang bang cuckery?

In team based game modes the TEAM should win. Not the best scrub that can spam revenge.


Nice try though kid lol

RealJayDee1984
04-30-2017, 11:07 AM
And if I decide that it makes more sense for the overall success of my team in the current game not to group up I will kindly refrain from grouping up, regardless of how loudly someone demands it.

CoyoteXStarrk
04-30-2017, 11:20 AM
And if I decide that it makes more sense for the overall success of my team in the current game not to group up I will kindly refrain from grouping up, regardless of how loudly someone demands it.

Then you are a fool and you are the kind of player that forces players to leave to match due to their team not wanting to behave like a TEAM.


I don't give watery fart what your secret MLG gut sense is telling you, if common sense says group up swallow your pride and group the **** up like a competent player

SendRickPics
04-30-2017, 11:47 AM
In team based game modes the TEAM should win. Not the best scrub that can spam revenge.


Nice try though kid lol

In any game, the most skilled player(s) should win, not just whoever can nutcup harder.

You can chain a bunch of mentally deficients together and they can still do more together than they can individually, but a single competent among them can change the game entirely.

As it currently stands, the mechanics hold back the competent player and cap his ability to contribute with his skill.

Gray360UK
04-30-2017, 11:53 AM
It's a shame there aren't more quick chat messages. Group Up! is the closest to Wake Up! that we have, and that's usually what I mean when I'm using it.

CitizenPuddi
04-30-2017, 11:56 AM
In any game, the most skilled player(s) should win, not just whoever can nutcup harder.

You can chain a bunch of mentally deficients together and they can still do more together than they can individually, but a single competent among them can change the game entirely.

As it currently stands, the mechanics hold back the competent player and cap his ability to contribute with his skill.

in any team-based game, typically the most skilled -team- should win

a single competent player isn't terribly competent if he can't swing even the most basic and rudimentary use of his own team

as it currently stands, the mechanics encourage and reward teams acting as teams (in these team-based modes), but many players have been spoiled by revenge mode and think they're Rambo with a sword and think they are/should be capable of defeating a team working together by themselves

it's a player perception issue

however, many have gotten too used to their "i win even though myself and my team played like crap" button and are either unwilling or incapable of changing and adapting to the new meta because change is scary i guess

with time, things will smooth out

RealJayDee1984
04-30-2017, 11:58 AM
Then you are a fool and you are the kind of player that forces players to leave to match due to their team not wanting to behave like a TEAM.


I don't give watery fart what your secret MLG gut sense is telling you, if common sense says group up swallow your pride and group the **** up like a competent player

I'm saying that if someone says "Group up" and common sense says "Don't group up" then I won't. If what I am doing at the moment of the request is more worthwhile for my team then I don't see the benefit of ceasing to do it. Not sure what "MLG gut sense" means, but it doesn't make much sense to me assume that someone automatically has a better understanding of the whole Situation in the current match simply because he demands to group up. Not sure what that's got to do with pride, or why it would "force" someone to leave a match.

And I'm absolutely not saying I don't react to "Group up" requests on principle or anything. If it makes sense to respond I will drop everything and rush over there. But it doesn't always.

vgrimr_J
04-30-2017, 12:01 PM
yes indeed GROUP THE HECK UP

CitizenPuddi
04-30-2017, 12:04 PM
I'm saying that if someone says "Group up" and common sense says "Don't group up" then I won't. If what I am doing at the moment of the request is more worthwhile for my team then I don't see the benefit of ceasing to do it. Not sure what "MLG gut sense" means, but it doesn't make much sense to me assume that someone automatically has a better understanding of the whole Situation in the current match simply because he demands to group up. Not sure what that's got to do with pride, or why it would "force" someone to leave a match.

And I'm absolutely not saying I don't react to "Group up" requests on principle or anything. If it makes sense to respond I will drop everything and rush over there. But it doesn't always.

i think coyote may have jumped the gun on his response, lol

but yeh, if someone on my team is telling me to group up while i'm out capturing the two points left open by the enemy team when they group up for a 4-man fight-- my team can just deal with the 3v4 until i can join them when i finish doing more important things™

SendRickPics
04-30-2017, 12:17 PM
in any team-based game, typically the most skilled -team- should win
That would make sense in a team based game where pre-made teams only went up against other pre-made teams. But we have a mix of pubbies and PUGs vs Pre-Mades leaving a strong disparity. With that in mind, individual skill should rise above. A group of competent individuals should work best as a team, not a group of scrubs who nutcup harder.



a single competent player isn't terribly competent if he can't swing even the most basic and rudimentary use of his own team
Conjecture. Competence in the context given is measured in individual ability in combat. Leadership is an entirely different aspect of gameplay and is practically a meta-game quality. Simply put, it's beyond the realm and constraints of game mechanics.


as it currently stands, the mechanics encourage and reward teams acting as teams (in these team-based modes), but many players have been spoiled by revenge mode and think they're Rambo with a sword and think they are/should be capable of defeating a team working together by themselves Nah, as it stands the mechanics encourage even the biggest individual scrubs to abuse the most OP heroes (as per usual, generally the ones is tons of crowd control) and nut cup as hard as they can.


it's a player perception issue
No, it's definitely a mechanical issue.


however, many have gotten too used to their "i win even though myself and my team played like crap" button and are either unwilling or incapable of changing and adapting to the new meta because change is scary i guess No, many of us have been playing since Closed Alpha (myself included) and we've already steered this game away from scrubs nutcupping and gang banging to get wins that they otherwise shouldn't have gotten because individually they are scrubs.


with time, things will smooth out
With time people will eventually become so fed up with the situation that detractors of the current status quo will move on to a different game, and things will only appear to smooth out.
However the issues aren't being addressed.



Prior to its nerf, the only characters capable of taking out a full team 4v1 would be a (VERY) well played PK, a Warlord (99.99% of the time), a Warden, and maybe a Shugoki.

However, 4v1 situations like that were rare, and generally I am willing to hedge my bets that the number of people who won 4v1's isn't nearly as great as you'd like people to believe. I'd wager 15% of 4v1 encounters or less ended in a victory for the outnumbered party, even if he "revenge spammed".

I think the more commonly won situations were 3v1 or 2v1's that quickly became 3v1's, that quickly became 2v1's again because the first guy died.

CitizenPuddi
04-30-2017, 01:14 PM
That would make sense in a team based game where pre-made teams only went up against other pre-made teams. But we have a mix of pubbies and PUGs vs Pre-Mades leaving a strong disparity. With that in mind, individual skill should rise above. A group of competent individuals should work best as a team, not a group of scrubs who nutcup harder.

i dunno man, there are an awful lot of team-based games out there where randoms do team stuff and win because they played as a better team

mostly because they play it as a team game instead of a "me and these unskilled scrubs vs. the enemy team" game




Conjecture. Competence in the context given is measured in individual ability in combat. Leadership is an entirely different aspect of gameplay and is practically a meta-game quality. Simply put, it's beyond the realm and constraints of game mechanics.

Competence in the context given, sure.

But not competence in the context that is terribly relevant.

Leadership is meta, sure, but that's not exactly what I was talking about.

Hell, you can even use your teammates without them even knowing you're using them if you're bad at communicating.


Nah, as it stands the mechanics encourage even the biggest individual scrubs to abuse the most OP heroes (as per usual, generally the ones is tons of crowd control) and nut cup as hard as they can.

Well yeah.

So long as OP heroes exist, this will exist.

That's an OP hero problem, not a teamplay problem.



No, it's definitely a mechanical issue.

heh, speaking of conjecture


No, many of us have been playing since Closed Alpha (myself included) and we've already steered this game away from scrubs nutcupping and gang banging to get wins that they otherwise shouldn't have gotten because individually they are scrubs.

so you and many players from alpha still haven't figured out how to play as a team

that's impressive



With time people will eventually become so fed up with the situation that detractors of the current status quo will move on to a different game, and things will only appear to smooth out.
However the issues aren't being addressed.

imaginary issues can't be addressed by the devs



Prior to its nerf, the only characters capable of taking out a full team 4v1 would be a (VERY) well played PK, a Warlord (99.99% of the time), a Warden, and maybe a Shugoki.

... and berserker, and raider (believe it or not), and kensei.

this is all anecdotal anyway

CoyoteXStarrk
04-30-2017, 01:17 PM
Everytime Rhodri posts I become more and more convinced he is not a real person.


No sane human being could play games and still have the absurd points of views he has taken.



Keep in mind this is the guy who said who would file a class action lawsuit of Ubisoft punished him for ragequitting lol

vgrimr_J
04-30-2017, 05:11 PM
Everytime Rhodri posts I become more and more convinced he is not a real person.


No sane human being could play games and still have the absurd points of views he has taken.



Keep in mind this is the guy who said who would file a class action lawsuit of Ubisoft punished him for ragequitting lol

seriously? if that is true then i cant do nothing else but laugh :D

Antonioj26
04-30-2017, 05:43 PM
That would make sense in a team based game where pre-made teams only went up against other pre-made teams. But we have a mix of pubbies and PUGs vs Pre-Mades leaving a strong disparity. With that in mind, individual skill should rise above. A group of competent individuals should work best as a team, not a group of scrubs who nutcup harder.



Conjecture. Competence in the context given is measured in individual ability in combat. Leadership is an entirely different aspect of gameplay and is practically a meta-game quality. Simply put, it's beyond the realm and constraints of game mechanics.

Nah, as it stands the mechanics encourage even the biggest individual scrubs to abuse the most OP heroes (as per usual, generally the ones is tons of crowd control) and nut cup as hard as they can.


No, it's definitely a mechanical issue.

No, many of us have been playing since Closed Alpha (myself included) and we've already steered this game away from scrubs nutcupping and gang banging to get wins that they otherwise shouldn't have gotten because individually they are scrubs.


With time people will eventually become so fed up with the situation that detractors of the current status quo will move on to a different game, and things will only appear to smooth out.
However the issues aren't being addressed.



Prior to its nerf, the only characters capable of taking out a full team 4v1 would be a (VERY) well played PK, a Warlord (99.99% of the time), a Warden, and maybe a Shugoki.

However, 4v1 situations like that were rare, and generally I am willing to hedge my bets that the number of people who won 4v1's isn't nearly as great as you'd like people to believe. I'd wager 15% of 4v1 encounters or less ended in a victory for the outnumbered party, even if he "revenge spammed".

I think the more commonly won situations were 3v1 or 2v1's that quickly became 3v1's, that quickly became 2v1's again because the first guy died.

Revenge didn't have to be 2v1 or higher to be activated and that's the problem that no one is really addressing. If in a 4v4 fight one guy so much as glanced an enemy his teammate was fighting the enemy would get revenge. It's a stupid mechanic that needed to be nerfed and it still serves a purpose. If you can't take advantage of super armor, enhanced damage, enhanced defense, extra health, knock down on throws, parries, and activation then you need to just practice more because no other game would give you this kind of power to help you in a 2v1. Most games you already know that if you are outnumbered you are at a disadvantage and instead of getting a revenge mechanic you have to adapt.


I love these scrubs you speak of because all they do is try and gang up and heavy me to death but it's pretty simple to block/parry those and get revenge. It's no longer a one shot but I can still do massive damage and I always make them think twice about doing it again.

bmason1000
04-30-2017, 06:06 PM
I'll tell you my issue with the "group up" command. As soon done mentioned before, sometimes its not plausible or feasible and sometimes from my point of view it makes more sense for me to continue what I'm doing. Second issue, i have no idea where you are or where you'd like me to "group up." Look out over the battle, see two players in two places. Which one said group? Where are you going?

IesooMI
04-30-2017, 06:17 PM
I think I've just about broken my Y button but scrubs just don't listen. I just remind myself "only 1 or 2 more of these 4v4 **** shows and I can go back to duels and brawls"

Alustar.
04-30-2017, 06:17 PM
I'm actually done responding to Rhodri, I'm personally of the opinion the forums would be better without him as all he does is insult people's opinions and talk trash on developers and players who try to argue points rationally that counter his own.

It's not worth the effort, there will never be a middle ground.
Why would I bother posting this then? To encourage others to do the same if you don't feed the trolls, they go elsewhere to find food.

xLeapingLizardx
04-30-2017, 07:34 PM
Everytime Rhodri posts I become more and more convinced he is not a real person.


No sane human being could play games and still have the absurd points of views he has taken.



Keep in mind this is the guy who said who would file a class action lawsuit of Ubisoft punished him for ragequitting lol

I was about to wearily respond to Rhodri then I read this^ and remembered why I shouldn't lol...


I'm actually done responding to Rhodri, I'm personally of the opinion the forums would be better without him as all he does is insult people's opinions and talk trash on developers and players who try to argue points rationally that counter his own.

It's not worth the effort, there will never be a middle ground.
Why would I bother posting this then? To encourage others to do the same if you don't feed the trolls, they go elsewhere to find food.

And then read this^

SendRickPics
04-30-2017, 09:14 PM
Everytime Rhodri posts I become more and more convinced he is not a real person.
I am quite real thank you very much.



No sane human being could play games and still have the absurd points of views he has taken.
That's a "No True Scotsman" type fallacy. Come on man, can you at least formulate an argument without logical fallacies?




Keep in mind this is the guy who said who would file a class action lawsuit of Ubisoft punished him for ragequitting lol

I argued that there'd be legal recourse for doing so, not that I'd be gung-ho about going to court. Court is expensive.

SendRickPics
04-30-2017, 09:26 PM
i dunno man, there are an awful lot of team-based games out there where randoms do team stuff and win because they played as a better team

mostly because they play it as a team game instead of a "me and these unskilled scrubs vs. the enemy team" game

Sure, like maybe LoL or DOTA or something, but then even in those examples, the PUGS are stomped by the pre-made groups. As it is in Battlefield, Halo, and many other games. Meta communications and coordination stomp individual skill due to lack of mechanical support that favors the individual (and outnumbered parties) over the numerous.




Competence in the context given, sure.

But not competence in the context that is terribly relevant.

Leadership is meta, sure, but that's not exactly what I was talking about.

Hell, you can even use your teammates without them even knowing you're using them if you're bad at communicating.

Then what exactly are you talking about dude? I could TRY to use another teammate as bait to call in a catapult, kinda, but that only has a limited effectiveness. Communication is wholly dependent upon the willingness of other players to communicate. Whether it's PS4, Xbox Live, or any other console, the trend now adays is for players to run without headsets and generally as mutes.




Well yeah.

So long as OP heroes exist, this will exist.

That's an OP hero problem, not a teamplay problem.

It was an OP Hero problem misconstrued as a Teamplay problem prior to the Revenge nerf. As stated, I'm willing to bet that Ubisoft could pull some numbers showing that 4v1's that were won by the outnumbered party were few and far between, and those that did win fell within the narrow selection of heroes, and that's all numbers within a vacuum not counting other variables, such as boosts (or lack thereof), the number of revenge builds, hero types, terrain, environmental kills, damage sources, or constraints, or how much HP each player had.

Simply put, a well coordinated team could still take out a Revenge build Warlord (as possibly the most obnoxiously hard to kill and OP build prior to the nerf, and honestly still is). Even so, use of CC and coordination would prevail more often than not over the Revenge build player.





heh, speaking of conjecture

It is a mechanical issue, based on mechanical limitations. The combat system doesn't allow for clean outnumbered fights beyond 2v1. The camera limitations, the FPS limitations, the limitations in targetting, it all has an affect on the overall gameplay experience, but it's mechanics based. It's why Revenge was an important stat to add as an equalizer.




so you and many players from alpha still haven't figured out how to play as a team

that's impressive

Don't be patronizing, you're better than that. That's evident by your choice to remain civil in discussion as opposed to some of these other clowns.





imaginary issues can't be addressed by the devs
Ditto





... and berserker, and raider (believe it or not), and kensei.

this is all anecdotal anyway

As I said, Ubisoft has the numbers, I'm willing to bet the truth lies somewhere in the middle. (Or even closer to my end of the spectrum).

xLeapingLizardx
04-30-2017, 09:41 PM
Rhodri, you should write a book about fallacies lol!

SendRickPics
05-01-2017, 03:22 AM
Rhodri, you should write a book about fallacies lol!

Pretty sure you can find one out there in any book that explains the art of debate and discussion.

teksuo1
05-01-2017, 03:26 AM
while i agree ; can't expect great teamwork from casual games with randoms.

When ranked comes and people start taking things more seriously.. it should get better.


I for one am often watching streams on my second monitor while playing ; paying more or less attention to the game depending on the stream's content.
I'm about 75% there at best. If we had ranked i would actually pay attention and try to give it my 100%

xLeapingLizardx
05-01-2017, 03:34 AM
Pretty sure you can find one out there in any book that explains the art of debate and discussion.

I know but you throw em out there so much you should write about them!



while i agree ; can't expect great teamwork from casual games with randoms.

When ranked comes and people start taking things more seriously.. it should get better.


I for one am often watching streams on my second monitor while playing ; paying more or less attention to the game depending on the stream's content.
I'm about 75% there at best. If we had ranked i would actually pay attention and try to give it my 100%

Wait... So you are playing a match with a team and not paying much attention just because it isn't ranked??... That's just ridiculous..

MasterChiefPON
05-01-2017, 03:42 AM
Lol.. a one man gang squad.

"One man to gang them all"...."One man to find them" ......"One man to bring them all and in the darkness spam them".................................................. .................................................. ......................................"Victory was near... but the power of the man could not be undone"

I'm done..... good bye 👋

SendRickPics
05-01-2017, 08:38 AM
I know but you throw em out there so much you should write about them!

I don't exactly throw them out there, I just call them out where people make them. If you're going to have a rational, evidence based discussion. Then you shouldn't be using fallacies and exaggerations to make your points. Game development certainly shouldn't be influenced by public outcry without any numbers or evidence to back it up.


Wait... So you are playing a match with a team and not paying much attention just because it isn't ranked??... That's just ridiculous..

Everything is ranks. Even "unranked" is ranked, to a degree. That's how "matchmaking" is done.

xLeapingLizardx
05-02-2017, 01:55 AM
Everything is ranks. Even "unranked" is ranked, to a degree. That's how "matchmaking" is done.
well tell that to tekuso, the guy who, to a percentage, doesn't pay attention to the game he's playing because it isn't ranked...

laugmanden
05-02-2017, 09:46 AM
Tactical awareness, situational awareness, visual/spacial awareness, strategic awareness, logical awareness, social awareness, technical awareness.
Awareness in general, understanding of how perception and attention works.
All these are factors when playing an online match in For Honor.

Combine that with a good, but hard to master combat system, a lot of still new players coming to the game, matchmaking that is broken, and you get 4 people that have a hard time working together.

Yelling at us, or using that condescending tone is not helping the literate players that want to better themselves, it is turning us against you. (Which I assume is contra-productive?)

CoyoteXStarrk
05-02-2017, 09:49 AM
Tactical awareness, situational awareness, visual/spacial awareness, strategic awareness, logical awareness, social awareness, technical awareness.
Awareness in general, understanding of how perception and attention works.
All these are factors when playing an online match in For Honor.

Combine that with a good, but hard to master combat system, a lot of still new players coming to the game, matchmaking that is broken, and you get 4 people that have a hard time working together.

Yelling at us, or using that condescending tone is not helping the literate players that want to better themselves, it is turning us against you. (Which I assume is contra-productive?)

And you can continue be the kind of player that makes people come to the forums and rage.


Good job.


Continue to think you know whats best and ignore your team. Because that ALWAYS works lol :rolleyes:

laugmanden
05-02-2017, 10:08 AM
And you can continue be the kind of player that makes people come to the forums and rage.


Good job.


Continue to think you know whats best and ignore your team. Because that ALWAYS works lol :rolleyes:

Que?
I think you read my reply a little too fast there.
I cannot see a correlation in your reply with mine..

Nowhere in my post did I disagree that group up meant group up, I made a point about your way to give constructive criticism.
It would be better if you left out the fallacies, as a start. I have more pointers if you want them.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-02-2017, 10:18 AM
Que?
I think you read my reply a little too fast there.
I cannot see a correlation in your reply with mine..

Nowhere in my post did I disagree that group up meant group up, I made a point about your way to give constructive criticism.
It would be better if you left out the fallacies, as a start. I have more pointers if you want them.

Its late and idc honestly at the moment. So if you agree with me then thats great thank you. If not oh well you will have time to see the light.


If you don't group up when someone says group up then you are the reason people leave. You either group up or you make meaningles excuses as to why you cost the team the game.

laugmanden
05-02-2017, 10:32 AM
Its late and idc honestly at the moment. So if you agree with me then thats great thank you. If not oh well you will have time to see the light.


If you don't group up when someone says group up then you are the reason people leave. You either group up or you make meaningles excuses as to why you cost the team the game.

:confused:

I will just drop this, we aren't communicating.
Sleep tight!