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View Full Version : Hope Ubi is watching Lawbringer. Seems the buff went a bit far?



S8Canadian
04-30-2017, 07:48 AM
I do love lawbringer and felt he was great as a disabler and did seem to need something in 1 v1. I could have just needed to get better too though. Some folks are really good with him even before the patch. Now that he has major buffs I see multiple high level lawbringers in many matches and it's frustrating.

Anyone else think it seems a bit much? I'm not sure why anyone would play the conq over lawbringer at this point besides the cheese shieldbash combo.


I don't have a high level lawbringer. So I could be crazy.

Dizzy4213
04-30-2017, 07:59 AM
Ohhh god, please stop. It's getting old now. Lawbringer is fine. He's just gone from low to mid tier. He's nowhere near as strong as the Top 4.

Also, if you're going to complain about the shove light then I suggest you watch this first: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUOR1AsQ_gg

Chucky_Jones
04-30-2017, 08:47 AM
Ohhh god, please stop. It's getting old now. Lawbringer is fine. He's just gone from low to mid tier. He's nowhere near as strong as the Top 4.

Also, if you're going to complain about the shove light then I suggest you watch this first: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUOR1AsQ_gg

Sypher actually messed up a few times in the video but even if he could react perfectly 100% of the time it doesn't prove that the move is balanced. He is a pro player and if he is one of the only players who can react to it than it is a problem.
Tru3 did a video yesterday where he dueled someone who said that the light of gb was reactable but the guy just guessed and was wrong most of the time.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=viwCQwZAn50
The move also promotes the defensive meta because the shove is free after a block so the lb is best off just waiting for a block. That makes his opponent not want to attack so they both have incentive to just turtle. Either the shove shouldn't be free after a block or the light shouldn't be unblockable after the shove or you shouldn't be able to gb directly after a shove. Maybe it would work for the light to get the glowing unblockable affect and be parryable.

Dizzy4213
04-30-2017, 09:06 AM
Sypher actually messed up a few times in the video but even if he could react perfectly 100% of the time it doesn't prove that the move is balanced. He is a pro player and if he is one of the only players who can react to it than it is a problem.
Tru3 did a video yesterday where he dueled someone who said that the light of gb was reactable but the guy just guessed and was wrong most of the time.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=viwCQwZAn50
The move also promotes the defensive meta because the shove is free after a block so the lb is best off just waiting for a block. That makes his opponent not want to attack so they both have incentive to just turtle. Either the shove shouldn't be free after a block or the light shouldn't be unblockable after the shove or you shouldn't be able to gb directly after a shove. Maybe it would work for the light to get the glowing unblockable affect and be parryable.

It's perfectly balanced. It's easily reactable and if you dodge it you can punish the Lawbringer. Can't do that with Warden because you have to guess and even if you guess right you can't punish him. The recent nerfs to him did nothing.

It does promote the defensive meta yes but that can't be helped. Ubi are trying to fix it so it won't be here for much longer. Even before the buff, Lawbringers always used to turtle because it's all they could do. God forbid he's give the ability to try and go on the offensive. Seems like when the weakest hero in the game gets a buff everyone loses their mind, but the Top 4 are perfectly fine right?

I'm just sick and tired of this mass hysteria, that Lawbringer is suddenly the most overpowered hero in the game. When it couldn't be further from the truth.

SlashT12
04-30-2017, 09:32 AM
LB is still ****....they just gave him a spam(easy to avoid and to counter)like everyone else and its the only spam that punish the player so much

CoyoteXStarrk
04-30-2017, 09:36 AM
Lawbringer is still ASTONISHINGLY easy to deal with. ]


The Conqueror nerf however DID go too far. He is useless now.

kweassa1917
04-30-2017, 09:36 AM
LB is still ****....they just game him a spam(easy to avoid and to counter)like everyone else and its the only spam that punish the player so much

"You don't spread shi* around. You just clean it."

JayyRupp
04-30-2017, 09:44 AM
It's perfectly balanced. It's easily reactable and if you dodge it you can punish the Lawbringer. Can't do that with Warden because you have to guess and even if you guess right you can't punish him. The recent nerfs to him did nothing.

It does promote the defensive meta yes but that can't be helped. Ubi are trying to fix it so it won't be here for much longer. Even before the buff, Lawbringers always used to turtle because it's all they could do. God forbid he's give the ability to try and go on the offensive. Seems like when the weakest hero in the game gets a buff everyone loses their mind, but the Top 4 are perfectly fine right?

I'm just sick and tired of this mass hysteria, that Lawbringer is suddenly the most overpowered hero in the game. When it couldn't be further from the truth.

IT'S TOO MUCH OF A REWARD FOR BLOCKING. Everyone should agree on that. Is he overpowered? No. Are 99.9% of LB players mediocre scrubs that get bodied in pools? Yes. LB is being held back by the people who main him. He definitely has a viable kit for tournament play.

Knight_Raime
04-30-2017, 09:56 AM
IT'S TOO MUCH OF A REWARD FOR BLOCKING. Everyone should agree on that. Is he overpowered? No. Are 99.9% of LB players mediocre scrubs that get bodied in pools? Yes.

Disagree. If it was a true 50/50 and/or being OOS was actually a bad thing i'd agree with you. But being OOS means nothing when dodges are still just as good. blocking is just as effective. same with parrying. If they ever make OOS truly a bad thing then maybe the stamina damage off of a block would need looking into. but as of now law doesn't get any damage off of a shove. and stamina in general doesn't need to be managed. Which is kind of bad considering law's main gimmick is chipping stamina down.

Dizzy4213
04-30-2017, 10:00 AM
Disagree. If it was a true 50/50 and/or being OOS was actually a bad thing i'd agree with you. But being OOS means nothing when dodges are still just as good. blocking is just as effective. same with parrying. If they ever make OOS truly a bad thing then maybe the stamina damage off of a block would need looking into. but as of now law doesn't get any damage off of a shove. and stamina in general doesn't need to be managed. Which is kind of bad considering law's main gimmick is chipping stamina down.

I should also add that against heroes with fast attacks, you more often than not, eat a light attack during the shove startup.

Xaviloga
04-30-2017, 12:24 PM
Dunno if LB was buffed too much or not, but looks like a lot of conquerors switched to LB for some reason.

Herbstlicht
04-30-2017, 02:50 PM
Can only speak for console, but to me too, it seems he got buffed too much. Still below Valk PK Warden Warlord, but very close to them and in bigger game modes partly superior. I would say he made the jump to top tier. In a way, half of all classes are now within top tier, what isn't bad for those. Just even worse for the ones left behind.

Hello Raider buff?

Berard_Gutler
04-30-2017, 03:08 PM
This is whats wrong, Warden doing unlimited shoulder bashes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHqbuUv8zSE&t=784s

Knight_Raime
04-30-2017, 06:24 PM
Dunno if LB was buffed too much or not, but looks like a lot of conquerors switched to LB for some reason.

that's because conq's can't be aggressive anymore without knowing how to use full block cancels well. He got nerfed hard enough that nearly everything he does was punishable.
which is a big change from him being neigh unpunishable pre patch. his kit has always been lack luster. but being able to get away with a lot made him relevant. now that he can't the only way you're really going to win as him is by turtling super hard or being really good with full block cancels.

xLeapingLizardx
04-30-2017, 07:21 PM
It's funny when people say "the LB can't go on the offensive"... Don't go against my LB lol, I go on the offensive plenty of times successfully.. It's a good balance of defense and offense.

As for the buff, I can see why people are complaining about the light after shove.
When they first disclosed what the buff consisted of, I didn't know that the light after a shove was a thing and I was already happy with the listed changes.
But of course I was killing with the LB before the patch so if they were to take away the light after shove, it wouldn't hurt me much...

What if, as a middle ground, the specific shove after a block pushes the opponent far enough back where the following light can't connect? The dash>push>light is the only one that connects if not dodged..

Mudflaaaps
04-30-2017, 07:45 PM
Anyone who defends LB may as well just shout 'I'm bad at the game and use whatever character is most unfair'.

The main problem with the lawbringer is there's no skill barrier, he's the new peacekeeper.
In fact no, HE'S WORSE!

At least peacekeepers need to be mindful of timing and their low health, lawbringers just need to spam the same combo until they win. I main conq, kensei, orochi, peacekeeper and raider and the only one I can successfully beat lawbringers with is the peacekeeper. You need the speed to counter his stupid shoves, the only other effective method is spamming unblockables. I'm sure wardens and warlords have no issue with lawbringers.

If being an assassin or unblockable spammer is the only way to win, you've got yaselves a broken character.

EVERY character should be viable against every other character.

Titanodragon
04-30-2017, 08:20 PM
Anyone who defends LB may as well just shout 'I'm bad at the game and use whatever character is most unfair'.

The main problem with the lawbringer is there's no skill barrier, he's the new peacekeeper.
In fact no, HE'S WORSE!

At least peacekeepers need to be mindful of timing and their low health, lawbringers just need to spam the same combo until they win. I main conq, kensei, orochi, peacekeeper and raider and the only one I can successfully beat lawbringers with is the peacekeeper. You need the speed to counter his stupid shoves, the only other effective method is spamming unblockables. I'm sure wardens and warlords have no issue with lawbringers.

If being an assassin or unblockable spammer is the only way to win, you've got yaselves a broken character.

EVERY character should be viable against every other character.

The only thing that needs to be changed is the light after a block shove. Nothing else does he now has damage to match what he's suppose to do. Sorry pks and valks light attacks can't do more dmg than the lbs heavy now.

Oupyz
04-30-2017, 08:22 PM
Anyone who defends LB may as well just shout 'I'm bad at the game and use whatever character is most unfair'.

The main problem with the lawbringer is there's no skill barrier, he's the new peacekeeper.
In fact no, HE'S WORSE!

At least peacekeepers need to be mindful of timing and their low health, lawbringers just need to spam the same combo until they win. I main conq, kensei, orochi, peacekeeper and raider and the only one I can successfully beat lawbringers with is the peacekeeper. You need the speed to counter his stupid shoves, the only other effective method is spamming unblockables. I'm sure wardens and warlords have no issue with lawbringers.

If being an assassin or unblockable spammer is the only way to win, you've got yaselves a broken character.

EVERY character should be viable against every other character.


Agrreedddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd dddddddddddddddddddddddddd

Morpheus256
04-30-2017, 08:47 PM
If you play against LB you should use a character with fast dodges and/or deflect-like mechanics (Valk, assassins, conq, kensei) to punish his shove-light reliably. If you use chars like raider or nobushi you will get hit by the light even if you try to dodge it sometimes because of slow dodge speed. For those characters it actually is a 50/50 because you have to dodge preemptively to avoid getting hit.

I don't think LB needed this mix-up off a simple block. He was viable even before the buff. He wasn't viable in tournaments, yes, in fact, only 5 chars were viable in "high-level" play because they simply were (some still are) miles above every other char.

He probably won't be a top pick for tounament play tho because you can actually punish him if you have godd reactions and the right character. He's not as BS as warden...yet.

Mudflaaaps
04-30-2017, 11:32 PM
Well you hit the nail on the head. You can beat him with the right character.
Great, that renders 9/12 characters totally useless.
Yeah thanks Ubisoft. BALANCE (Y)

bmason1000
04-30-2017, 11:42 PM
I don't know, maybe he seems overbuffed because it changed lawbringers playstyle and we're all just readjusting, ya know? I'm sure the new characters will start the same "NO BALANCE OP!!!" topics for the first month until we all learn our way around them. Give it a couple weeks and some practice, LB won't seem so over buffed as we learn how to handle the new lawbringer.

bmason1000
04-30-2017, 11:43 PM
Unless I'm wrong and he gets tweaked in patch 1.09 haha

UbiNoty
05-01-2017, 01:10 AM
We've been keeping an eye on LB and will continue to do so. After we've had a bit more time to gather data and feedback we'll re-evaluate him again then and decide where to go from there.

Felis_Menari
05-01-2017, 02:51 AM
Anyone who defends LB may as well just shout 'I'm bad at the game and use whatever character is most unfair'.

The main problem with the lawbringer is there's no skill barrier, he's the new peacekeeper.
In fact no, HE'S WORSE!

At least peacekeepers need to be mindful of timing and their low health, lawbringers just need to spam the same combo until they win. I main conq, kensei, orochi, peacekeeper and raider and the only one I can successfully beat lawbringers with is the peacekeeper. You need the speed to counter his stupid shoves, the only other effective method is spamming unblockables. I'm sure wardens and warlords have no issue with lawbringers.

If being an assassin or unblockable spammer is the only way to win, you've got yaselves a broken character.

EVERY character should be viable against every other character.

Don't be hysterical. The Lawbringer is fine, in general. It's only the block>Shove>light that is a potential overbuff.

Illyrian_King
05-01-2017, 11:16 AM
Well you hit the nail on the head. You can beat him with the right character.
Great, that renders 9/12 characters totally useless.
Yeah thanks Ubisoft. BALANCE (Y)

Lovely to see all the kids whinning, before thinking :rolleyes:

In fact: 9/12 chars are mad for fighting the LB! Except of Raider, Warlord and Shugoki, every Hero has dodge attacks .... soooooo you wait for the shove, dodge in the first moment and trigger the attack ... it's guaranted hit and no gb possible ;)

The_B0G_
05-01-2017, 01:56 PM
I've mained LB since release and like some people have said already he was decent for me before the buff, I would usually have pretty high scores in dominion, unless I was against PKs or Valks (after Valk buff), the problem with him pre buff was you had to fight 2 times harder to kill anyone due to his low damage on even heavys.

His damage is now competitive and honestly I've even been up against rep 1 LBs that have beat me with shove light spam, but it isn't unbeatable, just frustrating. That being said I think if they, like someone else said, make the shove distance out of light attack range I'd be fine with that, I don't use shove light much anyway, and certainly don't spam it.