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View Full Version : Please reduce the recovery time for Valk openings!!



My.Insanity
04-28-2017, 08:27 AM
So i know what you gonna say.. "she already got buffed".. "lol she is f**king OP sweep all the time" and so on..

BUT !!!

Valk is one of the weakest Heros in this game..ofc her attack speed with the first light attack is very good but this is it..
She is the most punishable Hero in this game.. i will tell you why:

Her attack dmg is a joke.. even if you sweep your enemy all the time you need a lot of heavys and light attacks to bring him down.

Her second light attack is much slower then the first one which makes it easy to block or to parry (which stops nearly each combo she has)

Her spear sweep can hit allies too which takes the advantage of disableing the enemy.

Her recovery is so f**king bad that all of the following actions can enable a free GB on her:

BLOCK -> Pouncing Thrust = free GB

Parry -> Pouncing Thrust = free GB

BLOCK -> Hunterís Strike = free GB

Parry -> Hunterís Strike = free GB

Doge -> Shield Crush = free GB

Doge -> Shield Tackle = free GB

(While in revenge) you can GB her while Shield Tackle

Parry any attack = free GB

Doge Sweep = free GB

so... i hope this makes it clear.. she has the worst recovery of all heros.. her dmg is the worst of all heros (with conq maybe) and her sweep is the worst disabler
from all heros (compared to Lawbringers Pancake / Shugokis grab or even Conq Shield Tackle)

I dont say she needs more dmg.. i dont say she needs more mixups.. i like all of her tools.. for f**k sake i even think its fine that you can doge or parry everything and give
her a GB... BUT giving the enemy a free GB for just BLOCKING her only opening skills is just total bullsh!t. So please !!! reduce the recovery time from Pouncing Thrust and Hunter's Strike

Please tell me if im wrong... or if i missed a point. If you are 100% sure she is fine as she is go in duel or brawl.. and tell me how it ended because nearly all
of your moves can easily get punished.. so in my eyes the only way to play a Valk in duel is ... turtle.. turtle your self and parry the **** out of every attack..
dont even try to attack the enemy.. maybe you can sometimes hit him with one light because of its speed its a little bit save.

kweassa1917
04-28-2017, 08:41 AM
Cough up some unblockable spams and then we'll talk. :D

CoyoteXStarrk
04-28-2017, 08:44 AM
Remove her ability to infinitely stumble me and then you can have a buff.


She can sod off until then.

Specialkha
04-28-2017, 08:45 AM
She is the 5th strongest hero. Stop cry.

My.Insanity
04-28-2017, 08:47 AM
lol.. infinitely stumble... looks like you guys dont know how to move left or right?

DrinkinMehStella
04-28-2017, 09:24 AM
i'm a valk main and she does not need any more buffs, her dmg may not be the strongest but she makes up for that with her very fast light attacks and her mixup. she can open up turtles with a good timed shield crush, her shoulder pin is very rewarding as well although hard to do. blocking speed is nearly as fast as WL and Conq. yes she is punishable if you miss a sweep, shield bash/crush but if you increase recovery time then you will make her the most OP hero in the game.

Rikuto01.tv
04-28-2017, 09:30 AM
She has the best combination of speed range and damage in the game.

Of course she has to be bad somewhere. Lack of safety is where that is. deal with it or play a different character.

My.Insanity
04-28-2017, 09:41 AM
Lack of safety.... are you guys kidding me? I told you her Moveset, Mixups and Dmg is absolut FINE !!!!

BUT TELL ME ONE HERO WHO GETS FREE GB AFTER A SIMPLE STUPID BLOCK !!!!

Im not even saying she needs reduced recovery time on any other moves... but if you cant use your opening tools because all of them give the enemy a free gb its a joke...

Rikuto01.tv
04-28-2017, 09:42 AM
Lack of safety.... are you guys kidding me? I told you her Moveset, Mixups and Dmg is absolut FINE !!!!

BUT TELL ME ONE HERO WHO GETS FREE GB AFTER A SIMPLE STUPID BLOCK !!!!

Im not even saying she needs reduced recovery time on any other moves... but if you cant use your opening tools because all of them give the enemy a free gb its a joke...

Warden.

Pouncing thrust is not an opener. It's a whiff punisher. The other tools mentioned force an unreactable guess on your opponent and if they guess correctly you deserve to be blown up.

She is a character that gambles heavily. If you don't like that, then she would need to be completely re-done from the ground up. There is no way to make her safer and still relatively balanced.

DrinkinMehStella
04-28-2017, 09:50 AM
Lack of safety.... are you guys kidding me? I told you her Moveset, Mixups and Dmg is absolut FINE !!!!

BUT TELL ME ONE HERO WHO GETS FREE GB AFTER A SIMPLE STUPID BLOCK !!!!

Im not even saying she needs reduced recovery time on any other moves... but if you cant use your opening tools because all of them give the enemy a free gb its a joke...

Only if the enemy is quick enough and you time your moves correctly.

Rikuto01.tv
04-28-2017, 09:53 AM
In high level competition you should always assume the enemy will have proper execution.

Anyway, even so. Valkyrie tends to gain more when she guesses correctly than when her enemy guesses correctly, so I have no sympathy for Valks.

bananaflow2017
04-28-2017, 10:06 AM
I'm also valk Main and des thats a Problem.
Usually my duells against skilled Player die example wardens look like this:
Warden standing there blocking top.
He does nything else just blocking top so i cant engage with Overhead top cuz it's a free gb for him.
So i tried mixup Left right with jump. He just blocks and gg free gb die him.
Then i start feinting and soft feint into shoulderbash and it hittet him.
I was proud XD and finished the combo with a leg sweep. Yeah he dodged free gb. That was my dead Next round.
Warden Standing there blocking top.....

Ok shield bash wont work cuz ever idiot can dodge that when he doesnt atack.

So i realised my only option is feinting into shoulder bash like i did before.
But now he manages to dodge it and guess what happened? Yeah free gb.
Then i tried some mixups with gb but he cgb every time.
Then i start to turtle too in round 3 and he just does nothing Standing there blocking top.
So what are my options????
So actually Good characters a those who have an atack which is hard to dodge and cant be parried..
So i think im gonna play walord now.....
Valk is something for staying noobs.
But if u play against really cheesy turtles: no Chance.

Charmzzz
04-28-2017, 10:12 AM
lol.. infinitely stumble... looks like you guys dont know how to move left or right?

Looks like you never faced a Valk with Revenge abusing Shield Tackle into Sweep into Heavy. YOU CANNOT EVADE THIS, you are still in recovery from standing up when she is tackling you again. It is an infinite CC-Combo and definitely needs to be adjusted.

My.Insanity
04-28-2017, 10:20 AM
This is only a thing if she has Revenge... and im talking about DUELS / BRAWS in which your Gear have no effect and you need to eat A LOT of hits to gain revenge
(which is also useless cuz i dont use revenge in duels or brawls.. yeah flame me cuz i play with honor..)

I have a Valk Rep 7 and i know how to play this game.. (overall Rep 23) but like bananaflow2017 said... go and play DUEL as a Valk... you have no openings all you can do is turtle or you get punished.

Specialkha
04-28-2017, 10:36 AM
Like most other class. Maybe Valk is not the issue here but def meta is?

Alchemist..
04-28-2017, 10:45 AM
Valk is one of the weakest Heros in this game..

I stopped reading here. Get real dude

bananaflow2017
04-28-2017, 10:56 AM
Like most other class. Maybe Valk is not the issue here but def meta is?


I stopped reading here. Get real dude

Yeah i think it's just an impression cuz u only meet turteling s-tier heroes in duells. Thats really annoying XD.
Bit u right the others are definately easy manageble.

My.Insanity
04-28-2017, 11:24 AM
I stopped reading here. Get real dude

to lazy to read but still reply... please go be useless somewhere else.

Alchemist..
04-28-2017, 11:34 AM
to lazy to read but still reply... please go be useless somewhere else.

I'm not lazy, you just write bubbly. Valk is not even close to weakest characters, if u reduce her recovery she will be compleatly unpunishable, thats why i didn't read

CeIasun
04-28-2017, 11:40 AM
hahaha one of the weakest classes? What's next give her lightsabers and god mode?

bananaflow2017
04-28-2017, 11:55 AM
Like most other class. Maybe Valk is not the issue here but def meta is?


hahaha one of the weakest classes? What's next give her lightsabers and god mode?

It's a question of definition.
For me: Everything is weak down S-Tier.
And valk is more an Tier.
Bit Yes she stands there with 7 other classes.

Alchemist..
04-28-2017, 12:06 PM
It's a question of definition.
For me: Everything is weak down S-Tier.
And valk is more an Tier.
Bit Yes she stands there with 7 other classes.

Weak and weakest its difference. She is fast, have decent mix ups, 50/50 after every 2nd hit landed, good range and dmg, deflect, heavy into bash feint and full guard stance. I would say that it is the best balanced atm hero

Herbstlicht
04-28-2017, 01:13 PM
I too think Valky is currentky too strong (console). Buffing without some serious changes or nerfs somewhere else would be hilarious.
I mean you got super fast attacks, varied mixups, a lot of options, your own way of deflecting and adjusting your block with a simple dodge, full guard stance, long range, strong initiation, strong gap closers. I mean .. honestly. What do you wish for? Play something else. Kensei. Raider. Nobushi. Orochi. Zerker. They all too might have some strengths. But when comparing kits, they all fall short. Take the Zerker. Good offense, difficult defence. He has a really hard time when it comes vs top players and when being ganked.

But enough of this. Don't see a Valk buff anytime soon. You can't hand her a gun when she is heading into a swordfight.

bananaflow2017
04-28-2017, 01:19 PM
Like most other class. Maybe Valk is not the issue here but def meta is?


Weak and weakest its difference. She is fast, have decent mix ups, 50/50 after every 2nd hit landed, good range and dmg, deflect, heavy into bash feint and full guard stance. I would say that it is the best balanced atm hero

Yeah dats true. Compared to the non s tier she is a beast and i will play her no matter what buffs or nerfs come.
The only thing is and i think many other classes will say that:
It's really frustrating to practise a hero like hell get better and better just to get to a point the game says: "no Turtle and spammable skill that cant get parried no win bro" . Thats just a Slap in the face cuz u already lost this duell more or less in the picking phase.

My.Insanity
04-28-2017, 01:37 PM
Did i say she need new moves? NO! Did i say i want her to deal more dmg? NO!

So why is everyone talking like: her kit is fine as it is ... ofc it is fine as it is why are you all talking about her kit while im trying to understand:

"is it okay that a Hero should be punished by a simple block? "

I understand that if you parry an attack you get a reward for risking your defense (like a free GB / a Heavy /or a Light attack)
but if you get a free GB for just blocking simple light attacks like "Hunter's Strike" or "Pouncing Thrust" its a ZERO RISK / HIGH REWARD option.
(yeah i know the Conq can get a free heavy or gb from just blocking a heavy attack but im totaly fine with that)

Specialkha
04-28-2017, 01:47 PM
Simply said: yes. She has a lot of assets, so yes, it is okay for her to be punished for a single block.

bananaflow2017
04-28-2017, 01:59 PM
Simply said: yes. She has a lot of assets, so yes, it is okay for her to be punished for a single block.

And supports Turtle meta even more....
In addition like mentioned above there is no skill needed for.... so y get rewarded dat hard for somerhing so easy?

Cuz the conclusion is:
Go slowly to ur oponent turn fast circles with ur right Stick and light atack when ur oponent is in range just do a normal light. Chance to block 1/3 cuz it's really fast....
When he blocks nothing happenz if he doesnt just go back and repeat cuz the second one will definately be blocked or even parried. Great playstyle
Great playstyle

Herbstlicht
04-28-2017, 02:08 PM
Did i say she need new moves? NO! Did i say i want her to deal more dmg? NO!

So why is everyone talking like: her kit is fine as it is ... ofc it is fine as it is why are you all talking about her kit while im trying to understand:

"is it okay that a Hero should be punished by a simple block? "

I understand that if you parry an attack you get a reward for risking your defense (like a free GB / a Heavy /or a Light attack)
but if you get a free GB for just blocking simple light attacks like "Hunter's Strike" or "Pouncing Thrust" its a ZERO RISK / HIGH REWARD option.
(yeah i know the Conq can get a free heavy or gb from just blocking a heavy attack but im totaly fine with that)

You are wrong. You only get a punish on a few situational lights that aren't there to be spammed. Your side attack got the recovery reduced btw, so that this is no longer guaranteed punishable by gb. So we still talk about a hero that has a hella strong kit, plays strong and is strong, and you still want her stronger?

Valk is OP on console. That is my opinion. Even though a few moves can be punshed by a simple block. Thing is: the smarts valk players know when to use what move of there moveset.

As i said before: a Valk buff is so incredibly unlikely right now, that you either should improve or just try out other heros before you continue to cry about minor weakness.

Genesiz13
04-28-2017, 04:08 PM
the problem i see with many valk mains is that they are using dodge attacks in situations were there is no call for it. for example, pouncing thrust should be used as a opener when you're not close range, but i see many valk players who are right in front of me and decide to do a side dodge attack. what's the point of doing a side dodge attack instead of a regular side light if you're not avoiding an attack? only her dodge attacks are guaranteed GB on blocks, regular lights are not. the hunter's strike should only be used as a reaction tool, where you are avoiding an attack and attacking at the same time, in a situation where it won't be blocked. if you just use it as an opener, add the fact that the attack follows the dodge direction and it will get blocked and you will get GB. also, the sweep can come from two directions depending which direction the previous attack came from, so you can mix that up. as for the post heavy shield bash, you can follow it with a light if it get's dodged to interrupt the GB they throw. you can also cancel a dodged heavy into the shield bash to get them while they're dodging, and for the full block shield bash, you can cancel it into pouncing strike if they are gonna dodge and start a light chain to interrupt their GB. Valk has good speed and a variety of mixups, so to compensate that she's also punishable if you don't mix up her attacks.

it's the same thing as the kensei side dodge attack. you're not supposed to use it as an opener, it's a reaction tool. you never start with a dodge attack, you use it when you're opponent starts.

Alchemist..
04-28-2017, 04:12 PM
Did i say she need new moves? NO! Did i say i want her to deal more dmg? NO!

So why is everyone talking like: her kit is fine as it is ... ofc it is fine as it is why are you all talking about her kit while im trying to understand:

"is it okay that a Hero should be punished by a simple block? "

I understand that if you parry an attack you get a reward for risking your defense (like a free GB / a Heavy /or a Light attack)
but if you get a free GB for just blocking simple light attacks like "Hunter's Strike" or "Pouncing Thrust" its a ZERO RISK / HIGH REWARD option.
(yeah i know the Conq can get a free heavy or gb from just blocking a heavy attack but im totaly fine with that)

U can get free gb inly if block stance Is in place for a longer time. So its basically your fault if u attack In direction which your opponent has a garde already.

AKDagriZ
04-28-2017, 04:19 PM
sounds good i just made of post where i also talk about the defensive meta killing valk ability

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1648061-reward-for-parry