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View Full Version : Lawbringer is not broken!



Illyrian_King
04-28-2017, 01:05 AM
If you are worried, about the new "guarented hit" after Shove ... just watch this ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUOR1AsQ_gg

For me is LB main this is very personal, because during the last stream it sounded a bit like the Block Shove of the LB could be removed. This would be a fierce overnerf!

Netcode_err_404
04-28-2017, 01:11 AM
If you are worried, about the new "guarented hit" after Shove ... just watch this ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUOR1AsQ_gg

For me is LB main this is very personal, because during the last stream it sounded a bit like the Block Shove of the LB could be removed. This would be a fierce overnerf!



Its nonetheless a very good mix up with high chance of success just for having blocked a hit. Totally not needed. Its a duel game ffs not a dice game.

Same with cancer wardens

Illyrian_King
04-28-2017, 01:27 AM
Its nonetheless a very good mix up with high chance of success just for having blocked a hit. Totally not needed. Its a duel game ffs not a dice game.

Same with cancer wardens

If you watched the video, you would have recognized that YOU get the gb, ifyou react correctly!

It's pretty much what this video is all about :rolleyes:

Further more this move is just a noob-slayer and nothing above ...

Edit: It is also very easy to differ the light attack animation from the gb animation, and you have a lot of time to react on it on the top of all that!

Netcode_err_404
04-28-2017, 01:58 AM
you won't get any free GB if they start a combo R1 > R2

I will repeat myself, too much reward for just blocking.

Damian Kain
04-28-2017, 02:14 AM
Must be nice on PC. I try that dodge crap on XBOX and I am hit with overheads and so on almost always. Much less the odd dodge bug where a Nobushi or a Kensai can dodge and get an attack before there is any shot at being grabbed. The best though "is It is punishable" yeah great you can punish it maybe half the time (If it lets you on console) but the push drains enough stamina you can barely get a move in. Ubisoft did a fine job of screwing the pooch when it came to this game and they have no intention of fixing anything. I dont think they are smart enough honestly.

JayyRupp
04-28-2017, 03:16 AM
Its nonetheless a very good mix up with high chance of success just for having blocked a hit. Totally not needed. Its a duel game ffs not a dice game.

Same with cancer wardens

I agree for the most part. If he had to parry I would probably be more accepting.

JayyRupp
04-28-2017, 03:22 AM
Must be nice on PC. I try that dodge crap on XBOX and I am hit with overheads and so on almost always. Much less the odd dodge bug where a Nobushi or a Kensai can dodge and get an attack before there is any shot at being grabbed. The best though "is It is punishable" yeah great you can punish it maybe half the time (If it lets you on console) but the push drains enough stamina you can barely get a move in. Ubisoft did a fine job of screwing the pooch when it came to this game and they have no intention of fixing anything. I dont think they are smart enough honestly.

Dodging & deflecting is incredibly easy on ALL platforms.

Tip:
1. Open up the Xbox Accessories app
2. Go to configure > button mapping
3. Assign your A button to your left stick (makes dodging in directions 10000 times easier)
4. Assign your X button to your right stick (makes guardbreaking/countering 10000 times easier)
5. Assign your B button to LB (allows you to feint without taking your thumb off of guard)
6. Uncheck Lock Toggle in your in-game settings (preference)

Navigating the menus will take some getting used to, but it's worth it. My gameplay with characters who rely on fundamentals has noticeably increased since I began using that setup. Hope it helps.

Felis_Menari
04-28-2017, 03:30 AM
Its nonetheless a very good mix up with high chance of success just for having blocked a hit. Totally not needed. Its a duel game ffs not a dice game.

Same with cancer wardens

At most the guaranteed light (if not dodged) should simply be made blockable. Being able to Shove off of block is a unique ability of the LB, and is in no way overpowered on its own.

Netcode_err_404
04-28-2017, 03:47 AM
At most the guaranteed light (if not dodged) should simply be made blockable. Being able to Shove off of block is a unique ability of the LB, and is in no way overpowered on its own.

Yes I know, nobody asked to remove it.

Illyrian_King
04-28-2017, 11:42 AM
Yes I know, nobody asked to remove it.

Well in the Dev Stream, they talked liked they are actually thinking about removing it ...

And the LB has no really fast first strikes to interrupt being beaten up, like many other classes do!



you won't get any free GB if they start a combo R1 > R2

I will repeat myself, too much reward for just blocking.

I think in the whole game, there no move, which is easier to parry ---> high punishment and actually happens very often!


Also just dodging back instead of sidewards avoids the light, the gb and the followup heavy

Charmzzz
04-28-2017, 11:55 AM
I think in the whole game, there no move, which is easier to parry ---> high punishment and actually happens very often!


Also just dodging back instead of sidewards avoids the light, the gb and the followup heavy

But you do not get a free GB after heavy parry on the Lawbringer afaik.

Herbstlicht
04-28-2017, 02:28 PM
At least the guy in the vid is kinda honest. He admits it may be different on console. It is. Besides, the lawbringer did not really "fight". I mean, he only did agreed on stuff. No chaining into further attacks that aren't going to let you gb him. So as the others say: for a simple block to be rewarded by this many options .. na, just no.

It encourages waiting for a block - more defensive and boring gameplay.

"Noobkillers" are a bad concept everywhere. I mean: options are nice. But a few abilities that dominate a specific skill level? ********.
Easy to learn, hard to master. The game already is not too easy to learn. Adding more stuff like this just makes the experience for new players even less enjoyable. So, in my opinion: not needed, please remove or rework.

My Vision of the Lawbringer would be the guy whose got a few attacks so freakin' hard that there should be blocking or parrying or deflecting. You didn't dodge? Sorry, i just took a major chunk of your life. Your fault. The top attacks disorienting suits him very well though.
Not the: i blocked you, now i shoved you, landed a hit, wait for a new attack. Repeat with minor variations. That is just so plain boring and tedious to play against -.-

Illyrian_King
04-28-2017, 02:48 PM
But you do not get a free GB after heavy parry on the Lawbringer afaik.

This a thing I have to deny, I got free guardbroken very often after a parry and it's a real pain in the ace ;b



At least the guy in the vid is kinda honest. He admits it may be different on console. It is. Besides, the lawbringer did not really "fight". I mean, he only did agreed on stuff. No chaining into further attacks that aren't going to let you gb him. So as the others say: for a simple block to be rewarded by this many options .. na, just no.

It encourages waiting for a block - more defensive and boring gameplay.

"Noobkillers" are a bad concept everywhere. I mean: options are nice. But a few abilities that dominate a specific skill level? ********.
Easy to learn, hard to master. The game already is not too easy to learn. Adding more stuff like this just makes the experience for new players even less enjoyable. So, in my opinion: not needed, please remove or rework.

My Vision of the Lawbringer would be the guy whose got a few attacks so freakin' hard that there should be blocking or parrying or deflecting. You didn't dodge? Sorry, i just took a major chunk of your life. Your fault. The top attacks disorienting suits him very well though.
Not the: i blocked you, now i shoved you, landed a hit, wait for a new attack. Repeat with minor variations. That is just so plain boring and tedious to play against -.-

This coneqpt of just hitting through is pretty much the shugoki and his broken 1-hug-kill ... but the Lawbringer has no major way to interrupt enemy chains because of his slow and easy parryable attacks, what makes the afterblock-Shove really important and unique for the Lawbringer!

Indeed ... the shove is quiet powerful now, but if you seriously look into it, you see that it is very easy to punish if you dodge:

Dodging back, means being out of range for hit and guardbreak ... and only few people go for a feint after shove, but this is again a skill based thing and doesn't have to do much with the Shove anymore.

Dodging on the side is rewarded for PK (Dodge Attack), Warden (Shoulder Bash on dodge), Conq (Shield Bash on dodge), Lawbringer (Shove on dodge), Orochi (Dodge Attack), Kensei (Dodge Attack), Nobushi (Dodge Attack), Berserker (Dodge Attack) and Valk (Dodge Attack) with a very likely free strike and being immune to gb at the same time ... the only remaining thread is, that the Lawbirnger doesn't do anything beside reacting to the enemy follouw-up and trying to punish him ... but seriously how many Lawbringers would go for that risk ;b


Edit: The def meta is more a problem of parrying. Blocking isn't the actual point, and Shove is indeed a thing where you a forced into a situation, where both have chance of coming out as the winner.

Felis_Menari
04-28-2017, 07:42 PM
Well in the Dev Stream, they talked liked they are actually thinking about removing it ...

And the LB has no really fast first strikes to interrupt being beaten up, like many other classes do!




I think in the whole game, there no move, which is easier to parry ---> high punishment and actually happens very often!


Also just dodging back instead of sidewards avoids the light, the gb and the followup heavy

That's why I mentioned Shove's removal. It was fine before the devs added the unblockable light. Nobody in their right might complained about it. So if the devs remove a character-specific ability because *THEY* are the ones who buffed it too much (as opposed to making the unblockable light blockable again), then we have a problem of incompetence, or devs who simply don't give a **** about pushing through radical changes without thinking it through.

Dizzy4213
04-28-2017, 08:13 PM
That's why I mentioned Shove's removal. It was fine before the devs added the unblockable light. Nobody in their right might complained about it. So if the devs remove a character-specific ability because *THEY* are the ones who buffed it too much (as opposed to making the unblockable light blockable again), then we have a problem of incompetence, or devs who simply don't give a **** about pushing through radical changes without thinking it through.

Sadly I think that's what's going to happen.

Anyway, I have no problem with the unblockable light after shove. It's not a 50/50 and compared to the Warden's vortex, it's a joke. As long as you don't panic, you'll have no problem with it. Sypher already made a video on it and the shove is punishable. Dodging the light results in a free GB on the Lawbringer.

Felis_Menari
04-29-2017, 06:20 PM
Sadly I think that's what's going to happen.

Anyway, I have no problem with the unblockable light after shove. It's not a 50/50 and compared to the Warden's vortex, it's a joke. As long as you don't panic, you'll have no problem with it. Sypher already made a video on it and the shove is punishable. Dodging the light results in a free GB on the Lawbringer.

The light seems super easy to dodge (as in, there doesn't seem to be a tight window to avoid it; just dodge at any point before the hit lands, and you're golden.) I could be wrong, but I could swear I've seen an opponent *WALK* backwards put of its range, but that needs testing to confirm. Considering that, and how punishable Shove>light is, if the unblockable status is removed, the old hit box needs to be restored, me thinks.

Dizzy4213
04-29-2017, 07:02 PM
The light seems super easy to dodge (as in, there doesn't seem to be a tight window to avoid it; just dodge at any point before the hit lands, and you're golden.) I could be wrong, but I could swear I've seen an opponent *WALK* backwards put of its range, but that needs testing to confirm. Considering that, and how punishable Shove>light is, if the unblockable status is removed, the old hit box needs to be restored, me thinks.

Definitely. I see no reason at all why it needs to be nerfed. You can't cancel it like the Warden. I'm going to be so salty if they nerf it and leave Warden's vortex untouched. I'm not sure if you can walk out of it, but I know dodging backwards let's you avoid the light regardless of which direction it's coming from. I believe it also allows you to avoid being GB as well since you'll be out of range.

As you said before, I have this strange feeling that the devs may remove the shove from block judging from their last dev stream. And if that happens, it really will show just how incompetent they are. I can only hope that they've seen Sypher's video showing just how punishable it is. Even if a LB heavy feints into GB and you dodge, you can still tech it.

Herbstlicht
04-29-2017, 07:18 PM
Dodging on the side is rewarded for PK (Dodge Attack), Warden (Shoulder Bash on dodge), Conq (Shield Bash on dodge), Lawbringer (Shove on dodge), Orochi (Dodge Attack), Kensei (Dodge Attack), Nobushi (Dodge Attack), Berserker (Dodge Attack) and Valk (Dodge Attack) with a very likely free strike and being immune to gb at the same time ... the only remaining thread is, that the Lawbirnger doesn't do anything beside reacting to the enemy follouw-up and trying to punish him ... but seriously how many Lawbringers would go for that risk ;b


Edit: The def meta is more a problem of parrying. Blocking isn't the actual point, and Shove is indeed a thing where you a forced into a situation, where both have chance of coming out as the winner.

Nobushi has no evasive side attack. You still get hit. Besides the dodge is as bad as it gets. Anyway, still object to your opinion, it is not fine, specially not on console. And you can bring as many reasons as you like - as long as it is most likely a very favorable exchange for the lawbringer, i won't get myself to like it. Simple as that.

Dizzy4213
04-29-2017, 07:36 PM
Nobushi has no evasive side attack. You still get hit. Besides the dodge is as bad as it gets. Anyway, still object to your opinion, it is not fine, specially not on console. And you can bring as many reasons as you like - as long as it is most likely a very favorable exchange for the lawbringer, i won't get myself to like it. Simple as that.

With Nobushi, don't do a dodge attack. Just simply dodge the light and you get a free GB the Lawbringer. As for your point about console, I have no problem reacting to the light or GB. From what I've seen so far, neither do most other players.

Knight_Raime
04-29-2017, 07:42 PM
yup. people just need to get used to it and it'll never work in higher play. So people like true can get over themselves.
Also the light is 100% blockable for all heros if the light goes into the direction you were blocking when you got shoved.
Though there are heros who can dodge to reset their block stance thus blocking the attack anyway:
Warlord, valk, kensei, and conq are the ones I know that can do this. I think bushi might reset hers on dodge but i'm not sure.

invalid target0
04-29-2017, 08:33 PM
Its nonetheless a very good mix up with high chance of success just for having blocked a hit. Totally not needed. Its a duel game ffs not a dice game.

Same with cancer wardens

Precisely. I no longer have faith in the design team to fix this mess. They acknowledged the turtle meta while at the same time making it worse. Who the hell is calling the shots on this game? I hope we never see their name attached to a lead position again. If Ubi wants to save FH, which is still possible, they need to replace the top.

Crackatawa96
04-29-2017, 08:59 PM
Also just dodging back instead of sidewards avoids the light, the gb and the followup heavy

Not sure if I'm reading this right, but are you saying dodging back avoids the light, gb, and heavy individually or as a combo? because dashing back does not make you safe from a gb since they have tracking. If you mean light -> gb -> heavy as a combo, then I guess maybe, but it's kinda 50/50 if he's going to light or gb after the shove.

Hormly
04-29-2017, 09:31 PM
getting free dmg for BLOCKING is kind of silly, kind of REALLY silly and I doubt this wont be reversed

Dizzy4213
04-29-2017, 09:45 PM
getting free dmg for BLOCKING is kind of silly, kind of REALLY silly and I doubt this wont be reversed

It's not free damage.

Getting kinda tired of this mass hysteria about the shove now.

THWLR14
04-29-2017, 09:59 PM
There is hysteria because most are used to eating LB's Shove as it did nothing more than drain a little bit of Stamina on hit; now that they cannot aimlessly spam attacks it is a problem.

I doubt devs will do anything with it; mix-up is Avoidable and Punishable. Damage is not guaranteed, and LB needed another counter-attack that did not rely on Parry.

Felis_Menari
04-29-2017, 10:13 PM
There is hysteria because most are used to eating LB's Shove as it did nothing more than drain a little bit of Stamina on hit; now that they cannot aimlessly spam attacks it is a problem.

I doubt devs will do anything with it; mix-up is Avoidable and Punishable. Damage is not guaranteed, and LB needed another counter-attack that did not rely on Parry.

The funny thing is it seems the LB needs the Shove mix-up as it is, to compete in the turtle meta. Maybe once the meta is dismantled, certain buffs/nerds won't be necessary.

kweassa1917
04-30-2017, 02:18 AM
There is hysteria because most are used to eating LB's Shove as it did nothing more than drain a little bit of Stamina on hit; now that they cannot aimlessly spam attacks it is a problem.

I doubt devs will do anything with it; mix-up is Avoidable and Punishable. Damage is not guaranteed, and LB needed another counter-attack that did not rely on Parry.

That's one way to look at it.

But the other side of the coin would be that people have been tolerating that bullshi* because it didn't do much by itself back then.

Compared to other Unblockable-Unparriable-Guaranteed Damage spamming classes, the Lawb shove spam worked as a pressuring tool rather than a pseudo-50/50 or a guaranteed damage tool. Therefore, despite the fact that it's categorically same lame-as-shi* close-range+quickfire+UB-UP spamming skill, people simply showed tolerance to it because it wasn't as gravely threatening as, Warden vortex, Warlord HB, "Rungoki" charges, Conq shieldspam, etc..

Now, it's become threatening. Admittedly, not as dangerous as those other spam skills, but threatening enough to be considered "menacing", rather than how it was merely "vexing" .

Like I've said a zillion times, the existance of spammable close-range UB+UP,skills, is basically what seperates the "OP tier" classes from the rest. Especially in the turtlemeta. And while definitely not as OP as the "traditional 4 OPs", for players that use classes without UB-UP spammy shi*, the change moved the Lawb closer to them, than the rest of us.

Can you blame the players for being angry with yet another class receiving improvements to cheesy-as-heck UB-UPs? I think not .


Those who think the UB-UP shove spamming did not add much to the Lawb, and is OK, try fighting the next month without ANY shoves at all. Just humour me and pretend the skill does not exist at all. What you're feeling there, is what some classes like Kenseis or Raiders feel like when they meet turtles.