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View Full Version : Why are Duel and Brawl players the biggest cry babies.



J-HovTheKnolls
04-26-2017, 11:08 PM
I mean for real you know they where the one's complaining the most about revenge mode and am glad they haven't gone to crazy with the fixes to the heroes i think they understand everyone that complains about each hero they hate yet always have nothing to say about their hero or heroes it's kind of annoying and i think the main reason people have quit playing is the matchmaking these top tier bums play nothing but even bigger bums who can barely beat a lvl 1 bot. Let the top 10% jerks play each other only and the problem with 4v4 modes is that match making puts bottom% players against top 10% 4 man teams and it really sucks going 12-4 and always losing cause the other 3 team members go 5-7, 4-4 and 2-5, it would be nice to stop out matching players thats why i stopped playing duel, brawl and Elimination although that was due to more then half of them were cowards and would run away and grab powerups and the 20 sec bs fix didn't help it.

cragar212
04-26-2017, 11:33 PM
You're saying duel and brawl players got the gear stat revenge bonuses nerfed?/?/?/

Gear stats are disabled in duel/brawl

J-HovTheKnolls
04-26-2017, 11:45 PM
No, i was saying you know they cried about it the most and i am fine with the way they fixed. RM still helps in skirmish and dominion although not the way it did which was great. The reason i say it is cause everyone of them i watch streaming cry about how much every hero is broken yet the one they use is perfect or how Duel and Brawl are the only modes that take any skill to play all cause they can't handle being jumped and killed, get over yourself Duel and Brawl are boring.

Alustar.
04-26-2017, 11:51 PM
You're saying duel and brawl players got the gear stat revenge bonuses nerfed?/?/?/

Gear stats are disabled in duel/brawl

I think what he is refer to is that those favoring duels/brawls are the ones who had the biggest complaints about revenge when in other modes, as well as more vocal about which characters are broken.

Honestly I can agree as most players I've seen arguing against revenge nerfs and also for nerfing particular heroes, have typically argued in 1v1 scenarios.
Im probably the only person on the forum who has yet to call for a nerf on anything other than the revenge mechanic.
I'm content that anything. That hits me is 80% my fault and I should reevaluate what I'm doing with my life. OP or not, it doesn't matter if nothing connects.
But that's my opinion as a scrub player who enjoys seeing heads getting chopped off, take it for what it's worth.

Gray360UK
04-27-2017, 02:37 AM
I think what he is refer to is that those favoring duels/brawls are the ones who had the biggest complaints about revenge when in other modes, as well as more vocal about which characters are broken.

Honestly I can agree as most players I've seen arguing against revenge nerfs and also for nerfing particular heroes, have typically argued in 1v1 scenarios.
Im probably the only person on the forum who has yet to call for a nerf on anything other than the revenge mechanic.
I'm content that anything. That hits me is 80% my fault and I should reevaluate what I'm doing with my life. OP or not, it doesn't matter if nothing connects.
But that's my opinion as a scrub player who enjoys seeing heads getting chopped off, take it for what it's worth.

Yep, even when you think you are arguing in general about a class or a mechanic, it soon becomes apparent that 1 vs 1 is all that matters to the biggest complainers / whiners / crybabies. You aren't even allowed an opinion if you don't 1 vs 1 enough, even if you are one of the top 4 vs 4 players. You can have far more experience than them, but if it's not duel experience ... forget it.

I'm not sure why 1 vs 1 is taken as the standard. Duel mode is just 20% of the total game and a mode that is almost always on Low activity compared to Very High for the 4 vs 4 modes. Duel / Brawl seems to attract far more than its fair share of fragile egos and special snowflakes. Part of the fragile ego thing is creating a world in which their little mode means more than what the majority of the playerbase is actually doing. They've got the whole 4 vs 4 requires no skill / Duel is all that counts thing going on and following that logic they've promoted themselves to expert level on anything and everything, be it Gear that doesn't affect them, Revenge that doesn't affect them, or characters they don't even know how to play. There's a whole other side to the game they don't even recognise, and from that positon of ignorance they claim to know everything about the game.

You're not the only one who has yet to call for a nerf on anything other than the revenge mechanic either ;)

Antonioj26
04-27-2017, 02:55 AM
Yep, even when you think you are arguing in general about a class or a mechanic, it soon becomes apparent that 1 vs 1 is all that matters to the biggest complainers / whiners / crybabies. You aren't even allowed an opinion if you don't 1 vs 1 enough, even if you are one of the top 4 vs 4 players. You can have far more experience than them, but if it's not duel experience ... forget it.

I'm not sure why 1 vs 1 is taken as the standard. Duel mode is just 20% of the total game and a mode that is almost always on Low activity compared to Very High for the 4 vs 4 modes. Duel / Brawl seems to attract far more than its fair share of fragile egos and special snowflakes. Part of the fragile ego thing is creating a world in which their little mode means more than what the majority of the playerbase is actually doing. They've got the whole 4 vs 4 requires no skill / Duel is all that counts thing going on and following that logic they've promoted themselves to expert level on anything and everything, be it Gear that doesn't affect them, Revenge that doesn't affect them, or characters they don't even know how to play. There's a whole other side to the game they don't even recognise, and from that positon of ignorance they claim to know everything about the game.

You're not the only one who has yet to call for a nerf on anything other than the revenge mechanic either ;)

It's probably because imbalAnces in heroes become more apparent in 1v1 since the game is at its most naked. No other players, power ups, gear, distractions, AI, and less environmentals makes it easier to notice the advantages and disadvantages of every attack and every hero. Nothing or no one to save you and you can stay laser focused on the only other thing moving on your screen. I'm not saying it's right but I will definitely say hero balance is less of factor in 4v4

Gray360UK
04-27-2017, 03:09 AM
It's probably because imbalAnces in heroes become more apparent in 1v1 since the game is at its most naked. No other players, power ups, gear, distractions, AI, and less environmentals makes it easier to notice the advantages and disadvantages of every attack and every hero. Nothing or no one to save you and you can stay laser focused on the only other thing moving on your screen. I'm not saying it's right but I will definitely say hero balance is less of factor in 4v4

But then, without that long list of things you mentioned, is Duel the right place to make you an expert on hero balance? Feats counter-act some of the other characters abilities for example, Debuff Resistance likewise. That's just two examples of things that don't play a factor in Duels. It's basically like we have 2 different games on our hands. I'm just not sure what makes 1 vs 1 the 'real' game, even when it's the least popular activity in the game and is missing many of the core mechanics of the game.

Antonioj26
04-27-2017, 03:12 AM
But then, without that long list of things you mentioned, is hero balance less of a factor. Feats counter-act some of the other characters abilities for example, Debuff Resistance likewise. It's basically like we have 2 different games on our hands. I'm just not sure what makes 1 vs 1 the 'real' game, even when it's the least popular activity in the game.

Yes it is less of a factor in 4v4, you bringing up feats make it even more so since some of the best feats will demolish even the top 5 characters. Just about everyone that I can think of has a feat that can either one shot or take off 4/5ths of someone's life. I don't think of 1v1 being the "real game" but in 4v4 the generally thought of worst character of the game prebuff (LB) could do just fine where as he would do terrible in the upper levels of dueling.

AKDagriZ
04-27-2017, 03:14 AM
I spent 8d and 13h play time . I agree most salty players are in brawl . In brawl you see people so absorbed its crazy . they go personal and everything goes .They believe in an honorable code and expect there will be a fair 1V1 all the time

If you poke a last one standing brawler while he is fighting your teammate OMFG the war is open now you will get it ,your either a trash a dishonorable pig or piece of junk and if you are a high prestige level that even worst.

People go crazy but the fact isbrawl is a good place to go 1V2 .It sometimes lead to a very EPIC battle and the clustered ''honorable'' player are missing a huge part of the game

If the other team play dirty tactiks just go with it play the full match up and if you didnt like it that way leave at the end of the match but don't assume anything or expect anything to be your way

AKDagriZ
04-27-2017, 03:20 AM
i made apost about it especialy for the ones who dont understand different modes http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1643759-Brawl-Dominion-elimination-and-skirmish?p=12583266#post12583266

psyminion
04-27-2017, 03:23 AM
I believe the original base concept of FH was a 1v1 fighting game, and the 4v4 battlemodes added as part of a more rounded 'product'.

I bought For Honor for the skillful duels I enjoyed during the betas, not the hack-n-slash-strength-in-number battles (tho I do love a good gank now and again).

I guess I enjoy treating people in duel and brawl modes like Heroes and not minions.

Gray360UK
04-27-2017, 03:26 AM
Yes it is less of a factor in 4v4, you bringing up feats make it even more so since some of the best feats will demolish even the top 5 characters. Just about everyone that I can think of has a feat that can either one shot or take off 4/5ths of someone's life. I don't think of 1v1 being the "real game" but in 4v4 the generally thought of worst character of the game prebuff (LB) could do just fine where as he would do terrible in the upper levels of dueling.

Exactly, so if a dueller says a there's a problem, it's a problem in duels. So like I say, if duelling is a small % of what the playerbase is doing, why is that the model? Why ignore feats and resistances. How can someone say a Peacekeeper is too squishy when in 4 vs 4 they have Thick Skin, for example, or that bleed / poison is too strong when in 4 vs 4 you have Debuff Resistance / Thick Blood feat. I dunno, for me, the duellers who claim to be experts on everything are at best experts on one low activity part of the game, which doesn't even feature important game changing mechanics. There is also the whole thing of team synergy of course, again totally absent in duelling. To me it's like the guy sitting on the tip of the iceberg who thinks he knows all about the iceberg, when the bulk of it is under the water and he can't even see it. Just how I see things.

AKDagriZ
04-27-2017, 03:26 AM
I believe the original base concept of FH was a 1v1 fighting game, and the 4v4 battlemodes added as part of a more rounded 'product'.

I bought For Honor for the skillful duels I enjoyed during the betas, not the hack-n-slash-strength-in-number battles (tho I do love a good gank now and again).

I guess I enjoy treating people in duel and brawl modes like Heroes and not minions.

The 2v1 aspect was something very clear in beta testing . At this early time if you'd master the extra red arrow things you could be lead to very epic moment . But now people are way better in general and they time their attack when they outnumber 1 guy .

psyminion
04-27-2017, 03:38 AM
The 2v1 aspect was something very clear in beta testing . At this early time if you'd master the extra red arrow things you could be lead to very epic moment . But now people are way better in general and they time their attack when they outnumber 1 guy .

indeed.
i don't mean the betas were focused on dueling, I meant that the game concept behind For Honor was one of a pure fighting game that was fleshed out for more multiplayer fun a little later.

I do enjoy all the modes, and enjoy the different strategies of skirmish, elimination and dominion, however my idea of fun is epic 1v1.

Antonioj26
04-27-2017, 03:45 AM
Exactly, so if a dueller says a there's a problem, it's a problem in duels. So like I say, if duelling is a small % of what the playerbase is doing, why is that the model? Why ignore feats and resistances. How can someone say a Peacekeeper is too squishy when in 4 vs 4 they have Thick Skin, for example, or that bleed / poison is too strong when in 4 vs 4 you have Debuff Resistance / Thick Blood feat. I dunno, for me, the duellers who claim to be experts on everything are at best experts on one low activity part of the game, which doesn't even feature important game changing mechanics. There is also the whole thing of team synergy of course, again totally absent in duelling. To me it's like the guy sitting on the tip of the iceberg who thinks he knows all about the iceberg, when the bulk of it is under the water and he can't even see it. Just how I see things.

really don't get what you mean. what your saying sounds to point more towards balance mattering less and less in 4v4 which is my point. Even in the example you gave you just pointed at that the weakness that PK has lessened by the feat she has. hero balance doesnt matter nearly as much in 4v4 since there's already so much more going on. There's so many factors that can change the outcome of a 4v4. In dueling there's really only two. Players skill and the players hero.

Some heros strengths are capping objectives, some are better at holding, there's much more flexibility in 4v4 modes so different heros can play to their strengths. In dueling there is one objective, kill your enemy. Some characters are undoubtedly better at dueling than others so It's not a matter of dueling having a smaller player base(though I'm not sure that's the case or not since I haven't seen numbers of what mode is played the most often), it's a matter of where hero balance is effected the most.

Gray360UK
04-27-2017, 04:09 AM
really don't get what you mean. what your saying sounds to point more towards balance mattering less and less in 4v4 which is my point. Even in the example you gave you just pointed at that the weakness that PK has lessened by the feat she has. hero balance doesnt matter nearly as much in 4v4 since there's already so much more going on. There's so many factors that can change the outcome of a 4v4. In dueling there's really only two. Players skill and the players hero.

Some heros strengths are capping objectives, some are better at holding, there's much more flexibility in 4v4 modes so different heros can play to their strengths. In dueling there is one objective, kill your enemy. Some characters are undoubtedly better at dueling than others so It's not a matter of dueling having a smaller player base(though I'm not sure that's the case or not since I haven't seen numbers of what mode is played the most often), it's a matter of where hero balance is effected the most.

Well you get what I'm saying, I think, you just don't get the implications of using one to balance the other. Maybe a clearer example is weakening bleed, if they did that, because of the complaints of the duellers that bleed is too strong, when in 4 vs 4 where there is Debuff Resistance and feats like Thick Blood. Why would you use what duellers think is a problem to balance the game, when the vast majority of the game doesn't have that problem? Because we essentially have 2 such vastly different games when it comes to duels without gear and feats and all those other things you already listed, I simply don't get a) how you can balance one based on the opinions of people who play the other and b) be an expert on one when you play the other.

Antonioj26
04-27-2017, 04:18 AM
Well you get what I'm saying, I think, you just don't get the implications of using one to balance the other. Maybe a clearer example is weakening bleed, if they did that, because of the complaints of the duellers that bleed is too strong, when in 4 vs 4 where there is Debuff Resistance and feats like Thick Blood. Why would you use what duellers think is a problem to balance the game, when the vast majority of the game doesn't have that problem? Because we essentially have 2 such vastly different games when it comes to duels without gear and feats and all those other things you already listed, I simply don't get a) how you can balance one based on the opinions of people who play the other and b) be an expert on one when you play the other.

Again I think you are almost arguing my point. Debuff resistance can counter the bleed as you say, you get more options to make up for your weaknesses in 4v4. Nerfing the bleed would make a huge impact on the game of 1v1 but wouldn't change much in 4v4. If there goal is to balance the game with nerfs and buffs then the areas that are most effected are going to be the areas they focus on.

Gray360UK
04-27-2017, 04:25 AM
Again I think you are almost arguing my point. Debuff resistance can counter the bleed as you say, you get more options to make up for your weaknesses in 4v4. Nerfing the bleed would make a huge impact on the game of 1v1 but wouldn't change much in 4v4. If there goal is to balance the game with nerfs and buffs then the areas that are most effected are going to be the areas they focus on.

Yes, but when the area focused on is the smallest part of the game (Duel is currently low activity, Dominion is high) is that the correct thing to do? Another example, in duels you could argue Peacekeeper is squishy, but in 4 vs 4 she has thick skin. So you balance according to Duels, and don't nerf her, but then in 4 vs 4 where the majority are playing, she is much harder to kill. Is anyone looking at that? Balancing according to that? Or just according to what happens in duels, and if so, is it right to do so? If 10 people play Duels and 1000 play 4 vs 4 (to simplify the figures) why balance according to Duels? And what makes the 10 people who play Duels think they know better than the 1000 who play 4 vs 4, especially when the factors involved are so different?

Antonioj26
04-27-2017, 04:36 AM
Yes, but when the area focused on is the smallest part of the game (Duel is currently low activity, Dominion is high) is that the correct thing to do? Another example, in duels you could argue Peacekeeper is squishy, but in 4 vs 4 she has thick skin. So you balance according to Duels, and don't nerf her, but then in 4 vs 4 where the majority are playing, she is much harder to kill. Is anyone looking at that? Balancing according to that? Or just according to what happens in duels, and if so, is it right to do so? If 10 people play Duels and 1000 play 4 vs 4 (to simplify the figures) why balance according to Duels? And what makes the 10 people who play Duels think they know better than the 1000 who play 4 vs 4, especially when the factors involved are so different?

But the thick skin you are talking about has more counters, feats, teammates, environmentals. Let's put it this way, and I know I'm exaggerating this and going to the extreme but it's only to try and prove a point. If they gave buffed kensei so his starting lights are now unblockable then he could absolutely demolish in 1v1. He could definitely see some better results in 4v4 but it will effect him less since there are so many factors that can prevent or nullify the effectiveness of that attack. The only thing stopping his unblockable in a duel is a Parry or a dodge. In a 4v4 it can be stopped by parry, dodge, being attacked by an enemy's teammate, attacked by an AI, feats, etc. Look at conqueror for example, absolute garbage in 1v1 since his nerf but still does just fine in 4v4.