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View Full Version : Remove the free GB on Warden ZA block?



SerrowvonHerow
04-24-2017, 10:28 PM
With the upcoming Warden nerfs, I think this would be a very minor buff that would help keep his options somewhat open. Presently, the Warden Zone Attack is comparable to those of the Orochi and the Peacekeeper, except for two key differences. The Warden's ZA has greater range and tracking, but is unsafe on block.

Presently, the ZA often hits because of the flicker glitch. When that is inevitably patched though, it's not going to be a big deal to just block on reaction and enjoy your 30+ damage after the freebie GB. It doesn't make sense that Orochi's ZA, which is the exact same speed, is safe. Or Peacekeeper's, whom enjoys an even faster ZA that you also can not punish.

I'd say at least standardize them. Either make them all give GB on block, or remove the Warden's massive recovery frames after his. Reducing the range and tracking some if you have to, that's fine, I'd just like it to remain a viable attack after flicker is eventually patched.

Charanis
04-24-2017, 11:39 PM
Valk suffers free GB after a block of top punce or sidestep light stabs after block. Got on my level.

CandleInTheDark
04-25-2017, 12:09 AM
Also PK's as of the last patch is punishable on block, so you're asking for something the devs have taken off another character then referencing their pre-nerfed form.

From the patch notes

Zone Attack first strike is now set up as a light attack to trigger an interrupt reaction on block.

We_Wuz_Kongz
04-25-2017, 12:19 AM
With the upcoming Warden nerfs, I think this would be a very minor buff that would help keep his options somewhat open. Presently, the Warden Zone Attack is comparable to those of the Orochi and the Peacekeeper, except for two key differences. The Warden's ZA has greater range and tracking, but is unsafe on block.

Presently, the ZA often hits because of the flicker glitch. When that is inevitably patched though, it's not going to be a big deal to just block on reaction and enjoy your 30+ damage after the freebie GB. It doesn't make sense that Orochi's ZA, which is the exact same speed, is safe. Or Peacekeeper's, whom enjoys an even faster ZA that you also can not punish.

I'd say at least standardize them. Either make them all give GB on block, or remove the Warden's massive recovery frames after his. Reducing the range and tracking some if you have to, that's fine, I'd just like it to remain a viable attack after flicker is eventually patched.

Maybe after they remove your shoulder bash gb cancel out of the game entirely.lol
Leave the regular cancel though.

mfw Wardens are looking for buffs
https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder429/59603429.jpg

SerrowvonHerow
04-25-2017, 12:28 AM
Also PK's as of the last patch is punishable on block, so you're asking for something the devs have taken off another character then referencing their pre-nerfed form.

From the patch notes

Zone Attack first strike is now set up as a light attack to trigger an interrupt reaction on block.

You're misunderstanding the patch notes there. The interrupt reaction is just what happens if one of her light attacks is blocked, it doesn't mean she's put into an 800ms recovery frame period.

SerrowvonHerow
04-25-2017, 12:29 AM
Valk suffers free GB after a block of top punce or sidestep light stabs after block. Got on my level.

I don't think those Valk attacks should give a free GB either, for the record.

cragar212
04-25-2017, 12:29 AM
Also PK's as of the last patch is punishable on block, so you're asking for something the devs have taken off another character then referencing their pre-nerfed form.

From the patch notes

Zone Attack first strike is now set up as a light attack to trigger an interrupt reaction on block.

I don't think you know what punish means when talking about fighting games.

When you block a PK zone you get frames. This gives you the initiative to attack, roll away, etc etc. The pk can react to whatever you do.

When you block a warden ZA you are GUARANTEED a free GB and there is nothing the warden can do.

The stagger time required for a free GB is 800m/s. Pk is like 200m/s you dont even get a free LA.

I think warden, orochi, pk ZA block stagger times should be raised to 800m/s until flicker is fixed. Once flicker is fixed reduce it to frame advantage.

SerrowvonHerow
04-25-2017, 12:30 AM
Maybe after they remove your shoulder bash gb cancel out of the game entirely.lol
Leave the regular cancel though.

mfw Wardens are looking for buffs
https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder429/59603429.jpg

You had a sensible post up until the meme. Memes don't help you win arguments. =(

CandleInTheDark
04-25-2017, 12:41 AM
Ah fair point, I always read that as an opportunity to punish and I never spammed the thing anyway.

pafarot
04-25-2017, 12:54 AM
Totally not agree, warden zone attack is so fast and its ranges is so good that it is hard to get away from it and it also deal a good damage. whoever manage to block it need to be rewarded because it is almost impossible (I said almost) to block on reaction.
Warden is already strong even after the patch and you ask for more? that is just sad.

SerrowvonHerow
04-25-2017, 01:01 AM
Totally not agree, warden zone attack is so fast and its ranges is so good that it is hard to get away from it and it also deal a good damage. whoever manage to block it need to be rewarded because it is almost impossible (I said almost) to block on reaction.
Warden is already strong even after the patch and you ask for more? that is just sad.

So you would then agree that the PK and Orochi ZA should also give a free GB on block, yes? The Orochi one is the same speed and the PK one is faster. They all deal the same damage.

pafarot
04-25-2017, 01:46 AM
So you would then agree that the PK and Orochi ZA should also give a free GB on block, yes? The Orochi one is the same speed and the PK one is faster. They all deal the same damage.

Comparing warden to orochi is just not fair because orochi is not as well equipped as warden, and for PK I thought her ZA is already nerfed? Anyway you are missing the point, I say warden is already strong and something got to give if not then he will be too powerful.

SerrowvonHerow
04-25-2017, 02:01 AM
Comparing warden to orochi is just not fair because orochi is not as well equipped as warden, and for PK I thought her ZA is already nerfed? Anyway you are missing the point, I say warden is already strong and something got to give if not then he will be too powerful.

Her ZA got a very tiny nerf, but it doesn't amount to anything. It just means she can't attack you again for about 200ms or so if you block. Orochi and Warden are also quite comparable actually, being that their primary methods of opening an opponent are the top light and the zone attack. Warden's Shoulder Bash is getting a pretty hefty nerf tomorrow and while I don't disagree with it, I think it makes the unsafe zone unnecessary.

Knight_Raime
04-25-2017, 04:08 AM
No. Orochi and now PK zones are unsafe on block. this is the price they pay in return for having a very quick zone attack. Rather than removing their speed and making the attack useless the dev's have decided to reward players for having the ability to quickly read and react properly by making them unsafe on block.

The warden nerfs ultimately mean nothing. He'll still be able to use the 50/50 rather effectively. it was pretty BS for him to be able to cancel that late into the Bash. I mean the same issue exist with orochi's storm rush and that got patched. The only bad thing potentially is the extra recovery frames after a cancel. If the warden can't parry after canceling the bash (because they read the opponent properly) then there would be a problem. as you would never have to read the warden properly again. Just throw a light out.

SerrowvonHerow
04-25-2017, 04:29 AM
No. Orochi and now PK zones are unsafe on block. this is the price they pay in return for having a very quick zone attack. Rather than removing their speed and making the attack useless the dev's have decided to reward players for having the ability to quickly read and react properly by making them unsafe on block.

The warden nerfs ultimately mean nothing. He'll still be able to use the 50/50 rather effectively. it was pretty BS for him to be able to cancel that late into the Bash. I mean the same issue exist with orochi's storm rush and that got patched. The only bad thing potentially is the extra recovery frames after a cancel. If the warden can't parry after canceling the bash (because they read the opponent properly) then there would be a problem. as you would never have to read the warden properly again. Just throw a light out.

Orochi and PK zones are not presently unsafe on block, that's the point of this thread. :P

I agree with everything you said in regards to Warden, however.

Knight_Raime
04-25-2017, 08:58 AM
Orochi and PK zones are not presently unsafe on block, that's the point of this thread. :P

I agree with everything you said in regards to Warden, however.

I'm pretty sure the latest patch made PK's zone unsafe when it gets block as it's now treated as a light.
And i've always been able to GB orochi when blocking his zone.