PDA

View Full Version : Devs: Potential problems with "ganks" and revival mechanics



kweassa1917
04-24-2017, 12:03 PM
I've waited a day for that other guy to post about this, but since there isn't any (can't remember him), I'm suggesting this in his stead.

During one of the "revenge arguments", I've confronted what was about the only really valid and reasonable argument I've seen for quite some time. It is with how revival works in the game. That person mentioned that one of the problems with revenge mode is that even if you play skillfully and really well, and dispatch one of your assailants to better your odds, one of the opponents would simply revive him and all his efforts would be naught.



Now, technically speaking, what he mentioned has nothing to do with revenge itself, but as a critique of a separate issue in game, it was reasonable and sound observation. It is theoretically possible for the lone defender to try and interrupt the revival, but realistically speaking, the very state of being surrounded by multiple enemies makes it extremely unlikely for the defender to be able to take a risk and stop an opponent from rejoining the fray after his teammate "tags" him for merely 3~4 seconds.

Were it in real life, if someone was skillful enough to take one of the surrounding assailants down, that opponent would not be simply rejoining the fight at full fighting capacity in such ridiculously short span of time. The skill and prowess of the lone defender would be rewarded in that he brought up his chance to survive the ordeal by removing one of the enemies... and yet, with the current revival system, the lone defender is actually penalized for his actions despite playing skillfully -- not only did he spend his energy, time, concentration on trying to bring one of the enemies down, but even if he succeeds, he is forced to suffer an innumerable army of "zombies" that just get up, because someone "tagged" him.

So while revenge itself, IMO, is fine, one of the surrounding elements concerning the combat system in FH DOES have a possibility of spiking the difficulty a little too high, and not adequately rewarding the skillful player well enough. This problem is present with a number of different FH game modes, as it makes it likely that if you have an exceptionally skillful player in your team, the odds are you will be revived from the dead and in a clean and pristine condition despite your initial failure -- and this, result being death. I can only admit this revival system probably needs a more thoughtful consideration.




Hence, I'd like to propose the following:
1. if revived, you are no longer at full HP. You are revived at 25% of your max HP.
2. when killed by someone in revenge mode, an unconditional +8 seconds is added to the base revival timer, and these 8 seconds cannot be shortened




1 is a system seen in many other games that have team-revival mechanics, so should be self-explanatory, and therefore only minimal explanation would suffice. Revived at low HP increases the risk of going down easily again, and thus the revived player -- as due penalty for his death -- is forced to choose whether to immediately rejoin the fray despite the dangers (and thus, in limited combat capacity), or retreat from the lines and go heal up -- which would serve the desired purpose of temporarily deterring/removing him from the combat at hand.

The reasoning behind 2 is that during the "lone defender surrounded by 3~4 enemies" scenario, if the lone defender indeed plays skillful enough to take down one of his opponents, then that person rightfully deserves the rewards received in the form of increased likelihood of survival by removing an opponent and weakening enemy force overall. By adding an additional +8 seconds on TOP of base revival time required -- that cannot be shortened, it ensures that the surrounding enemies suffer a due penalty of that loss.

For example, "A" is surrounded by "B", "C", and "D". If A manages to kill B during the chaotic fight, then A's odds should be significantly improved to a 1v2 scenario. Instead, under the current revival system, C can block off A's path and engage, while D revives B within like 2 seconds (provided D has revival gear). Then despite the skillful and valiant efforts, A receives no reward and is actually penalized for his actions.

Therefore, by implementing a permanent +8 seconds to the revival time if killed by revenge, D will be required a lengthy 10 seconds (2 second base revival +8 seconds set time -- almost the time required to respawn) of a revival time to bring back B to life, and even if D succeeds in doing so, B will be brought back at 25% HP. So, now, under the new system, when B, C, and D surrounds A, and B is killed, C and D need to make a choice.



Choice A: D attempts to revive B -- which means BOTH D and B are removed from the fight for a lengthy time in which only C faces A in a 1v1 situation

Choice B: D gives up on reviving B -- decides to focus on the fight against A to keep the 1v2 situation going.



Again, my view is that revenge is totally fine, but one of the elements of combat in game -- revival, may not be so, and it is indeed a possibility that it may penalize someone who is actually good enough to use current revenge well.

Please consider these points for a fair and more balanced FH.


Thanks.

S0Mi_xD
04-24-2017, 12:31 PM
Yes, that is a good suggestion.
Not just like the ppl who cry about revenge and ganks.

For sure, you are not the first one who mentioned to limit revives. Since months ppl made suggestions.
But their is still no change.

Now my Opinion about your suggestion.
1.
Yes, you shouldn't be revived with full Health, thats to much.
Being revived with 25% is abit low but lets say something between 25-50%
2.
Increasing the revive time just abit would be good but not to much, and specificly after killed in revenge sounds good but i do think is should be generaly raised.
Fastest revive (full revive gear and revive feat) is nearly 1 second. Thats just to fast.


Now some of my ideas i still not add to my big suggestion thread:
1.
If you revive you spend half of your life to give it the person you revived. This would limit the revives and balance the reward for getting back a teammate.
2.
A revive cooldown is actiually in the game but its just about 1-2 seconds (you can't be revived the first 2 seconds after you died)
They should just raise the revive cooldown, the time you need to wait (9 seconds) to be able to revive youself should also be the cooldown time for teammates until they can revive you.

kweassa1917
04-24-2017, 12:54 PM
Knowing how game devs do work, I'm willing to bet its probably somewhere in their list of to-dos, but simply being treated as a less of a priority compared to other pressing matters. They probably working on the new netcode mostly, I think.

Drake_Duckson
04-24-2017, 02:04 PM
Another options for consideration:
- limit revives to one per round for each person. So if someone died, he can be revived only once in current round.
- make executions under "revenge" completely uninterruptible. Just like revenge activation.

S0Mi_xD
04-24-2017, 02:19 PM
Another options for consideration:
- limit revives to one per round for each person. So if someone died, he can be revived only once in current round.
- make executions under "revenge" completely uninterruptible. Just like revenge activation.

Actually executions in revenge are uninterruptible, it's just no use when your execution takes like 3 seconds and the others kill you meanwhile.

guffffff
04-24-2017, 03:06 PM
1. if revived, you are no longer at full HP. You are revived at 25% of your max HP.

That one ^

kweassa1917
04-24-2017, 03:09 PM
Another options for consideration:
- limit revives to one per round for each person. So if someone died, he can be revived only once in current round.
- make executions under "revenge" completely uninterruptible. Just like revenge activation.

It'd certainly apply well to game modes that have rounds, but probably not in Dom... which would mean the devs might need to develop two different revival systems depending upon game modes, which might not be an option.

I'm not against the idea, tho.

kweassa1917
04-25-2017, 02:32 AM
I've given it some thought, but still can't really decide if limiting a total number of respawns per round will be good or bad for game modes that have rounds in FH...

Wouldn't that be considered a bit too penalizing?

UbiJurassic
04-25-2017, 02:49 AM
Thanks for sharing your feedback and suggestions kweassa1917! We've seen several players call for changes to the revive system and I can assure you that feedback has been forwarded to the team. I'll be sure the forward this thread as well.

kweassa1917
04-25-2017, 04:15 AM
Thanks for sharing your feedback and suggestions kweassa1917! We've seen several players call for changes to the revive system and I can assure you that feedback has been forwarded to the team. I'll be sure the forward this thread as well.

Many thanks, Jur. Much appreciated. :D