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View Full Version : Revenge nerf improved the game



Robsket
04-24-2017, 10:44 AM
Finally every player is on the same level, no matter gears. Thank you Devs <3 please don't buff it again.
Finally it's not an autowin mode, but just a good advantage againist multiple enemies

DrExtrem
04-24-2017, 10:53 AM
It is balanced in 1on1 situations now bur slightly underpowered in 1onX situations.

Further adjustments might be needed in the future.

HarambeVendetta
04-24-2017, 10:55 AM
^
No. it gives you more than enough time, to activate it and succesfully back off, retreat to your teammates.
It was never meant to be a god , ultimate killer mode, what the noobs got used to. Now it's finally working as the devs intended originally, and you must rely on your teammates and teamplay to win.

I'm amazed when gs 108 run into 2-3 people alone , and than proceed to complain about ganks. Those are the people that went to adjust revenge, because they can't learn or are simply not willing to play the game as the way it's mean to be.

Please let's not touch revenge, it's perfect now.

Lumina-US
04-24-2017, 11:21 AM
Please let's not touch revenge, it's perfect now.So just because it caters to your likes it is perfect now? - wow, now that's what i call being selfish.

No dear, revenge is far from being perfect and definitely needs further tweaking.

I can pretty much handle myself, with or without it, but before the nerf (as soon as you triggered it) people ran off like 2y-old toddlers urging to discover the world, now they will just keep standing in the middle and keep slashing you, like pfff - it's next to useless now, why should i care?

Result: Due to that, now when you are in a 3 on 1 situation, even as a good player, you are more than ****ed.

It doesn't have to be as powerful as before, but it definitely needs some extra power again - unless you like to live in Gankbangerz-town forever.

Gray360UK
04-24-2017, 11:22 AM
It's going to take a while for things to balance out and for players to adjust. Since the patch I am running into an awful lot of 108 geared players who don't appear to be very good in a normal fight. To me they are obviously the players who relied on max Revenge gear and now they can't figure out what to do when either Revenge doesn't trigger, or it does trigger but it doesn't let them demolish the entire enemy team anymore.

No matter what side of the Revenge fence you are on, the fact that now when I see several 108 geared heroes on the VS screen I no longer think 'can't touch him, can't touch him, can't touch her ...' has to be a good thing. I was so sick of attacking someone who had just fought someone else, or coming to the aid of an ally who was being ganked, only to have the enemy get Revenge ... as if they were some kind of victim in need of aid, when actually they were the agressor / ganker. This is what many of the people complaining about the Revenge nerf conveniently forget to mention, that it was not all about letting victims survive against nasty ganking people, it was about letting gankers gank with immunity and allowed people in no danger to go on killing sprees.

HarambeVendetta
04-24-2017, 11:31 AM
Result: Due to that, now when you are in a 3 on 1 situation, even as a good player, you are more than ****ed.

It doesn't have to be as powerful as before, but it definitely needs some extra power again - unless you like to live in Gankbangerz-town forever.

Why are you in 3 vs 1 situations to begin with?...
Yeah of course, you people are so used to it , it's hard to fall back and regroup with your teammates i assume.
Revenge almost killed the game. It doesn't need the extra power.

Lumina-US
04-24-2017, 11:41 AM
Why are you in 3 vs 1 situations to begin with?...
Yeah of course, you people are so used to it , it's hard to fall back and regroup with your teammates i assume.
Revenge almost killed the game. It doesn't need the extra power.Ever played the game on XBOX Mr. know it all? - no?

Then let me tell you something - due to the rather agressive playstyle people have there, they run straight at you and you face a 3 on 1 in next to no time.

Yet, you smartasses think, it is always our own fault to begin with - go **** yourself with your git gud comments.

Alustar.
04-24-2017, 11:59 AM
Ever played the game on XBOX Mr. know it all? - no?

Then let me tell you something - due to the rather agressive playstyle people have there, they run straight at you and you face a 3 on 1 in next to no time.

Yet, you smartasses think, it is always our own fault to begin with - go **** yourself with your git gud comments.

You are missing the point. Revenge, as it was, was a defensive option being treated like an offensive tool to take out groups of people solo.
I have proof of this. Revenge was never meant to make the attacker **** his pants and run away, it was meant to give players breathing room.

Antonioj26
04-24-2017, 12:03 PM
Ever played the game on XBOX Mr. know it all? - no?

Then let me tell you something - due to the rather agressive playstyle people have there, they run straight at you and you face a 3 on 1 in next to no time.

Yet, you smartasses think, it is always our own fault to begin with - go **** yourself with your git gud comments.

Id say that yes it generally is your fault if you are out of position and you are by yourself. Elimination is one where I would argue that it isn't your fault but your teams fault for all dying and leaving you by yourself. Skirmish you can argue too if they are bad spawn points but really that's the only time. If you see 3 guys running at you then you run away, or just in general don't be running around by yourself in a team based mode. You wouldn't do this in any other game and expect the results to be in your favor.

bananaflow2017
04-24-2017, 12:04 PM
Revenge was so strong cuz people didnt know how to handle it.
At first u needed something like a setup.
When ur Team picks then maybe its not good to be the 4th picking a pk.
U needed something to disable the revenge players.
When i played with my friends (4v4), revenge was not a big Problem.
Revenge triggered valk bashes, shugoki took him up and he was done.
Revenge was far away from being a probplem.
But when u say: Yeah Lets play with 4 Assassins, then u simply got rekt.

I Think it's mostly a question of personal preference. U like ganking? U hate revenge. U like 1v1 and beat the .....
out of the 3 pk's Jumping on ur Head After they ran away in elemination, then u like the old revenge mechanic.

But revenge was NEVER an I win button.

Most people were just too bad to handle it. Most times i got hatemails in Connection with revenge gameplay, enemies even didnt parry me the whole Game......

Antonioj26
04-24-2017, 12:11 PM
Revenge was so strong cuz people didnt know how to handle it.
At first u needed something like a setup.
When ur Team picks then maybe its not good to be the 4th picking a pk.
U needed something to disable the revenge players.
When i played with my friends (4v4), revenge was not a big Problem.
Revenge triggered valk bashes, shugoki took him up and he was done.
Revenge was far away from being a probplem.
But when u say: Yeah Lets play with 4 Assassins, then u simply got rekt.

I Think it's mostly a question of personal preference. U like ganking? U hate revenge. U like 1v1 and beat the .....
out of the 3 pk's Jumping on ur Head After they ran away in elemination, then u like the old revenge mechanic.

But revenge was NEVER an I win button.

Most people were just too bad to handle it. Most times i got hatemails in Connection with revenge gameplay, enemies even didnt parry me the whole Game......

This is a ridiculous statement to make. I would regularly run into duos or triples by myself and build revenge so I can stomp them by myself. It's incredibly easy to do so. Fighting a group of people shouldn't be easier than 1v1. Revenge also wasn't limited to scenarios where you are being ganged up on which no one who is pro revenge wants to bring up.

Also this sort of scenario where you are suggesting people always have a disabler isn't going to happen in pugs. People will play the character they wanted to play with little regard for what happpens on their team or the enemies. Forget even what revenge can do itself, its very existence meant glancing at a 108 that your buddy was fighting means he Will get revenge so you don't even bother trying to help out your friend who is getting stomped. Pretty great mechanics for a team based mode.

kweassa1917
04-24-2017, 12:36 PM
"Ganking is so strong cuz people didnt know how to handle it.
At first u needed something like awareness.
When ur Team picks then maybe its not good to be the 4th picking a pk.
U needed something brains to avoid ganking players.
When i played with my friends (4v4), ganking is not a big Problem.
Gankers would try to surround yoi, swiveling my head around to check for baddies and gank was done.
Ganking is far away from being a probplem.
But when u say: Yeah Lets pretend you're a MMORPG tank, then u simply got rekt."

'nuff said.

ImTiredOfU
04-24-2017, 12:47 PM
Revenge was so strong cuz people didnt know how to handle it.
At first u needed something like a setup.
When ur Team picks then maybe its not good to be the 4th picking a pk.
U needed something to disable the revenge players.
When i played with my friends (4v4), revenge was not a big Problem.
Revenge triggered valk bashes, shugoki took him up and he was done.
Revenge was far away from being a probplem.
But when u say: Yeah Lets play with 4 Assassins, then u simply got rekt.

I Think it's mostly a question of personal preference. U like ganking? U hate revenge. U like 1v1 and beat the .....
out of the 3 pk's Jumping on ur Head After they ran away in elemination, then u like the old revenge mechanic.

But revenge was NEVER an I win button.

Most people were just too bad to handle it. Most times i got hatemails in Connection with revenge gameplay, enemies even didnt parry me the whole Game......

Not what they want to hear I tried they just want r2 smash and garenteed 4v1victory In their favor ever time. No revenge wasn't a I win button against skilled player but was against baddies that didn't coordinate and they are the one on here saying revenge is good now. Just sad people that were smart enough to counter revenge are now bored due to the game being dumbed down.

DrinkinMehStella
04-24-2017, 12:50 PM
i'm 108 and i can win 9/10 times in normal fights in a 4v4 but now when i'm getting ganked i can maybe take out 1 or two but can't survive long enough to at least stand half a chance against 4 crazy people swinging their weapons aimlessly in every direction, a few hits and i'm dead.

Antonioj26
04-24-2017, 12:54 PM
Not what they want to hear I tried they just want r2 smash and garenteed 4v1victory In their favor ever time. No revenge wasn't a I win button against skilled player but was against baddies that didn't coordinate and they are the one on here saying revenge is good now. Just sad people that were smart enough to counter revenge are now bored due to the game being dumbed down.

It always goes to this "they didn't know how to deal with it" its never about the fact that it was being abused and you need to git Gud. It's no different than pk light spam, warden shoulder bash, oni charge spam, headbutt spam, the list goes on. It's not a matter of it being completely immortal and it's not a matter of people not knowing how to deal with it it's about it being unbalanced. It was being abused and honestly you keep saying people are going to leave because of it but I wonder how many people left because they were sick of seeing a 108 on the enemy team while they are with a pugs meaning they pretty much have little to no chance at winning. You don't have hard numbers on who left prenerf or post nerf or even what their reasoning behind leaving was in the first place so stop bringing this up.

ImTiredOfU
04-24-2017, 12:59 PM
i'm 108 and i can win 9/10 times in normal fights in a 4v4 but now when i'm getting ganked i can maybe take out 1 or two but can't survive long enough to at least stand half a chance against 4 crazy people swinging their weapons aimlessly in every direction, a few hits and i'm dead.

This is the issue most of use are saying defense should have not been touched but the anti revenge pro gank squads are to bias to say this and want to believe revenge is still viable. They want garenteed 4v1 even if it's boring because they don't like losing.

kweassa1917
04-24-2017, 01:02 PM
This is the issue most of use are saying defense should have not been touched but the anti revenge pro gank squads are to bias to say this and want to believe revenge is still viable. They want garenteed 4v1 even if it's boring because they don't like losing.

Your defense is your brains. Run when you see dots coming your way on the radar. *sigh*

Christ, even an animal knows when to run away when hunters approach.

Antonioj26
04-24-2017, 01:10 PM
This is the issue most of use are saying defense should have not been touched but the anti revenge pro gank squads are to bias to say this and want to believe revenge is still viable. They want garenteed 4v1 even if it's boring because they don't like losing.

But most of you aren't actually saying that. You and one other guy I have seen had said everything but the defense needed to be changed. You never seem to actually address the legitimate scenarios or points I bring up it always goes back to "this game is boring and people don't like losing to so have fun with your 4v1s and r2 spam nubs." I just won a 3v1 last time I played, it's not impossible and it wasn't skewed in my favor as how it should be.

The devs agree with me and clearly so does the majority of the community if they've decided to change it in the most recent patch. Calling revenge useless is ridiculous too, it still has knockdown, armor, gives you a temporary boost in life, and enhanced defense and strength. If you can't find a way to use these to your advantages that's really on you because the change is done and it's not going back to the days of ez mode one shotting two guys who farted in your direction.

Lumina-US
04-24-2017, 01:17 PM
Id say that yes it generally is your fault if you are out of position and you are by yourself.Being "out of position" or being perma-jumped and chased by 3 dudettes, all day long, because you're the highest geared/highest rep player in the Match (happens a lot in my case, given i'm very close to hit Reputation 20 soon) is two entirely different shoes my friend.

Antonioj26
04-24-2017, 01:20 PM
Being "out of position" or being perma-jumped and chased by 3 dudettes, all day long, because you're the highest geared/highest rep player in the Match (given i'm very close to hit Reputation 20 soon) is two entirely different shoes my friend.

No it's not. You are still out of position and by yourself without your teammates. Doesn't matter if you are the target or not. If you are with your teammates, you turtle up and while 3 idiots are wailing on you your teammates are clobbering them. You are still out of position and it's still your choice to be out of position.

Lumina-US
04-24-2017, 01:27 PM
No it's not. You are still out of position and by yourself without your teammates. Doesn't matter if you are the target or not. If you are with your teammates, you turtle up and while 3 idiots are wailing on you your teammates are clobbering them. You are still out of position and it's still your choice to be out of position.And everytime we do that, people come here, memehmeh, boohoohoowiggywiggyyou - the defense/turtle meta suxxx and need's to be changed naaoow...

Start to count the threads about it in this place, by tomorrow or so, you might be done.

Oni-Nikuya
04-24-2017, 01:44 PM
Revenge is pretty weaksauce now...in dominion it borders on useless in it's goal to punish zerging in favor or a capture and defend strat so, hopefully that'll be revisited with a buff (certain allowed to behave differently per mode I'd think) with a finer eye on triggers and parameters that cause built revenge to drop off the meter.

Antonioj26
04-24-2017, 01:47 PM
And everytime we do that, people come here, memehmeh, boohoohoowiggywiggyyou - the defense/turtle meta suxxx and need's to be changed naaoow...

Start to count the threads about it in this place, by tomorrow or so, you might be done.

When people are talking about the turtling meta they are referring to 1 V1. i've literally never heard anyone complain about someone running to their teammates Because they are being ganked and then defending themselves while 3 guys attack them.

kweassa1917
04-24-2017, 01:55 PM
Revenge is pretty weaksauce now...in dominion it borders on useless in it's goal to punish zerging in favor or a capture and defend strat so, hopefully that'll be revisited with a buff (certain allowed to behave differently per mode I'd think) with a finer eye on triggers and parameters that cause built revenge to drop off the meter.

Why should people playing smarter than the loner be punished, whereas the loner being an easy picking need to be rewarded?

bananaflow2017
04-24-2017, 02:14 PM
This is a ridiculous statement to make. I would regularly run into duos or triples by myself and build revenge so I can stomp them by myself. It's incredibly easy to do so. Fighting a group of people shouldn't be easier than 1v1. Revenge also wasn't limited to scenarios where you are being ganged up on which no one who is pro revenge wants to bring up.

Also this sort of scenario where you are suggesting people always have a disabler isn't going to happen in pugs. People will play the character they wanted to play with little regard for what happpens on their team or the enemies. Forget even what revenge can do itself, its very existence meant glancing at a 108 that your buddy was fighting means he Will get revenge so you don't even bother trying to help out your friend who is getting stomped. Pretty great mechanics for a team based mode.


Like u said it's a team game, so this is y you should pick the best character to help ur team mit ur ego. Everbody knows the situation when u have revenge and the lb just shuffle u all the time.
it wasnt easier. It was just easier to slay down noobs with it who dont know what they do.
Really if u knew how this is working it was very easy. U just needed to work in a team.
There were so many solutions dir this.
We played valk shugoki and wl;). Just a question of setup as i say. Kensei got revenge, i parried an wl throw him of a cliff....
If there is no Cliff then against a wall for shugoki grab, when he gets up shield bash...
Dats what I call teamplay... and not like now.
Allways trying to jump on anybody with as much people as possible and Spam the .... out of him.


And now with the revenge nerf the strong characters are even Stronger compared to the others. Now i see even more warlords, shugoki, congs and now the lb ofc.
Now you can see that picking characters who can turtle really hard are now even more rewarding than before.
Also the scaling is weird. When i got dmg in my weapon and no dmg boost in revenge I should deal less dmg with revenge than without revenge....

I really ask myself y everyone is crying arround that gear influences game so hard.
Its more a question of matchmaking.
108 shouldnt be matched with ilvl 6 or stur like that.

Lumina-US
04-24-2017, 02:16 PM
Why should people playing smarter than the loner be punished, whereas the loner being an easy picking need to be rewarded?Why people are still replying to you, is completely beyond me tbh.

You NEVER EVER agree with someone, or even just something, that doesn't exactly cater to your point of view and no matter what others bring as argument to the table, you always have a Mr. smartypants comment in return, so you don't have to admit that others could be right as well.

But yeah, all that counts, is your sole opinion, we get it... - here we call people like that EGOISTS.

Antonioj26
04-24-2017, 02:24 PM
Why people are still replying to you, is completely beyond me tbh.

You NEVER EVER agree with someone, or even just something, that doesn't exactly cater to your point of view and no matter what others bring as argument to the table, you always have a Mr. smartypants comment in return, so you don't have to admit that others could be right as well.

But yeah, all that counts, is your sole opinion, we get it... - here we call people like that EGOISTS.

What's wrong or smarty pants with what he said? It's common sense 3>1. If you give the power of 3 to a single player then the match has become a 4v6. Makes zero sense.

CandleInTheDark
04-24-2017, 02:28 PM
Why people are still replying to you, is completely beyond me tbh.

You NEVER EVER agree with someone, or even just something, that doesn't exactly cater to your point of view and no matter what others bring as argument to the table, you always have a Mr. smartypants comment in return, so you don't have to admit that others could be right as well.

But yeah, all that counts, is your sole opinion, we get it... - here we call people like that EGOISTS.

Well personally I call people like that, which I don't believe Kweassa to be just to be clear, egotists :rolleyes:

And no Kweassa is not the only one who thinks that it is BS that it is safer to battle four people than one with the way revenge was or that someone could pop it eight times, for ten seconds a time, in the space of two minutes. That's the kind of stuff that was having people yell about revenge and that they were leaving long before the nerf, and given it is a team game it makes zero sense that one person should be rewarded for bad teamwork by suddenly being stronger than the whole other team and able to keep that state up almost indefinitely.

Illyrian_King
04-24-2017, 02:28 PM
Finally every player is on the same level, no matter gears. Thank you Devs <3 please don't buff it again.
Finally it's not an autowin mode, but just a good advantage againist multiple enemies

No!

ImTiredOfU
04-24-2017, 02:31 PM
Why people are still replying to you, is completely beyond me tbh.

You NEVER EVER agree with someone, or even just something, that doesn't exactly cater to your point of view and no matter what others bring as argument to the table, you always have a Mr. smartypants comment in return, so you don't have to admit that others could be right as well.

But yeah, all that counts, is your sole opinion, we get it... - here we call people like that EGOISTS.

😂😂😂 I knew I wasn't the only one.I don't even normally post in forums but after reading him ***** about revenge constantly and him and his anti revenge baddies grouping up on people telling them people to get gud. Valid points can be brought up and it's always get gud. You should get to mindless smash r2 as long as you have numbers is a bad teamwork tactic and when that is the best option it makes the game boreing. Hey what do I know I was told by him it now takes more skill than before even though before I couldn't spam r2 on my zerker mindlessly and be too of the charts as long as I run and find a teamate or group.

Antonioj26
04-24-2017, 02:32 PM
Like u said it's a team game, so this is y you should pick the best character to help ur team mit ur ego. Everbody knows the situation when u have revenge and the lb just shuffle u all the time.
it wasnt easier. It was just easier to slay down noobs with it who dont know what they do.
Really if u knew how this is working it was very easy. U just needed to work in a team.
There were so many solutions dir this.
We played valk shugoki and wl;). Just a question of setup as i say. Kensei got revenge, i parried an wl throw him of a cliff....
If there is no Cliff then against a wall for shugoki grab, when he gets up shield bash...
Dats what I call teamplay... and not like now.
Allways trying to jump on anybody with as much people as possible and Spam the .... out of him.


And now with the revenge nerf the strong characters are even Stronger compared to the others. Now i see even more warlords, shugoki, congs and now the lb ofc.
Now you can see that picking characters who can turtle really hard are now even more rewarding than before.
Also the scaling is weird. When i got dmg in my weapon and no dmg boost in revenge I should deal less dmg with revenge than without revenge....

I really ask myself y everyone is crying arround that gear influences game so hard.
Its more a question of matchmaking.
108 shouldnt be matched with ilvl 6 or stur like that.

This isn't going to happen every time that's what I'm telling you. It's pug people aren't always going to pick the best comps. It absolutely was easier, how are you denying the fact that having extra damage, defense, hyper armor, knock down on parry, activation, throws, and a temporary chunk of life not make the game easier? Your team play works in a scenario of ganking if the group makes the right moves, it doesn't work in any other way. It doesn't work in 1v1, 1v2, 2v2 etc. look if you are still finding yourself out of position without your teammates and being R2 spammed to death it's your fault for being out of position or it's your teams fault for all dying. If you can't block/parry R2 spam then I get why needing a broken mechanic is necessary for you in this game. Pre revenge nerf I regularly topped the charts or got second, and it's pretty much the same now it's not just ez mode turtle til I go SSJ4god mode and smash the opposing team.

Lumina-US
04-24-2017, 02:36 PM
What's wrong or smarty pants with what he said? It's common sense 3>1. If you give the power of 3 to a single player then the match has become a 4v6. Makes zero sense.I wasn't reffering to this post only, someone already made up a thread about him the other day, shouting (or rather ranting) out what kind of a twa1t he can be, but sure - keep jumping to his defense, he might hand you cookies...

Antonioj26
04-24-2017, 02:39 PM
😂😂😂 I knew I wasn't the only one.I don't even normally post in forums but after reading him ***** about revenge constantly and him and his anti revenge baddies grouping up on people telling them people to get gud. Valid points can be brought up and it's always get gud. You should get to mindless smash r2 as long as you have numbers is a bad teamwork tactic and when that is the best option it makes the game boreing. Hey what do I know I was told by him it now takes more skill than before even though before I couldn't spam r2 on my zerker mindlessly and be too of the charts as long as I run and find a teamate or group.

The pot calling the kettle black dude, I've brought up good points that you just breeze right past and go immediately to "git bud" or "it's not fun or unique anymore." If you are dying to mindless R2 spam then you are bad. If you need a mechanic that deincentives teamwork in a teambased game then you are bad. You haven't brought up a single Valid point. Not one. It's all just complaining. You say it's easily countered but so is anti ganking. So if that's your only argument then you've already been shut down. I've yet to hear one person say why someone who is by them self should get the ADVANTAGE in a 2v1 fight.

Antonioj26
04-24-2017, 02:41 PM
I wasn't reffering to this post only, someone already made up a thread about him the other day, shouting (or rather ranting) out what kind of a twa1t he can be, but sure - keep jumping to his defense, he might hand you cookies...

Yep I'm totally defending him or maybe his statement made sense and instead of you addressing it you just all but called him a troll.

Lumina-US
04-24-2017, 02:45 PM
Yep I'm totally defending him or maybe his statement made sense and instead of you addressing it you just all but called him a troll.Learn to read pls - I never called him a troll in any thread i posted.

A troll and a Mr. knows it all better and only makes his opinion count, is two entirely different things.

Antonioj26
04-24-2017, 02:51 PM
Learn to read pls - I never called him a troll in any thread i posted.

A troll and a Mr. knows it all better and only makes his opinion count, is two entirely different things.

You should learn to read I said "all but call him a troll" meaning your flung everything at him but that. Still not addressing his point. I don't read kweassa daily so I don't know what he said out side of a couple threads and he's yet to say something wrong that I've noticed. So you can argue more about reading comprehension and the source of the arguments or you can actually refute what he said. Really doesn't matter to me because anti revengers already won. I won most of my matches prenerf and I continue to win most of them post nerf. No sweat off my back.

Robsket
04-24-2017, 03:05 PM
You should learn to read I said "all but call him a troll" meaning your flung everything at him but that. Still not addressing his point. I don't read kweassa daily so I don't know what he said out side of a couple threads and he's yet to say something wrong that I've noticed. So you can argue more about reading comprehension and the source of the arguments or you can actually refute what he said. Really doesn't matter to me because anti revengers already won. I won most of my matches prenerf and I continue to win most of them post nerf. No sweat off my back.

Gears never intended to make you slightly stronger than your opponent, it (at least the concept) should only let you customise your character. That's why revenge was broken, and it was never intended to let you win 4v1

Antonioj26
04-24-2017, 03:11 PM
Gears never intended to make you slightly stronger than your opponent, it (at least the concept) should only let you customise your character. That's why revenge was broken, and it was never intended to let you win 4v1

Agreed that's why it was nerfed.

Oni-Nikuya
04-24-2017, 03:33 PM
Why should people playing smarter than the loner be punished, whereas the loner being an easy picking need to be rewarded?

It isn't a question of smarter or not smarter, it never was. If they buffed revenge instead of nerfing it, it would be CLEARLY smarter not to try and 2v anyone, but people would still do it. It's a question of what type of strategy the mode wishes to promote or discourage.If the community and by extension the devs have spoken and aren't interesting in severely punishing 3 and 4 man roving mobs, so be it, but it's definitely not my preference, and the mode by which classes gain renown in dominion should be revisited accordingly.

kweassa1917
04-24-2017, 03:38 PM
It isn't a question of smarter or not smarter, it never was. If they buffed revenge instead of nerfing it, it would be CLEARLY smarter not to try and 2v anyone, but people would still do it. It's a question of what type of strategy the mode wishes to promote or discourage.If the community and by extension the devs have spoken and aren't interesting in severely punishing 3 and 4 man roving mobs, so be it, but it's definitely not my preference, and the mode by which classes gain renown in dominion should be revisited accordingly.

You're still talking about "punishing" people as if someone did something wrong.

The only due "punishment" I see in this scenario is for the guy who roams alone.

Antonioj26
04-24-2017, 03:45 PM
It isn't a question of smarter or not smarter, it never was. If they buffed revenge instead of nerfing it, it would be CLEARLY smarter not to try and 2v anyone, but people would still do it. It's a question of what type of strategy the mode wishes to promote or discourage.If the community and by extension the devs have spoken and aren't interesting in severely punishing 3 and 4 man roving mobs, so be it, but it's definitely not my preference, and the mode by which classes gain renown in dominion should be revisited accordingly.

I think when he says smarter he just means playing as a team in a team based mode. Before prenerf it was honestly better to roam by yourself, and that doesn't make a whole lot of sense in objective team based modes. Depending on the mode roving in 3 to 4 man mobs also can be a disadvantage. It leaves your points open on dominion and in skirmish it leaves you open for a catapult/firebomb/arrow or other debuffs and sweeping attacks.

Oni-Nikuya
04-24-2017, 03:50 PM
You're still talking about "punishing" people as if someone did something wrong.

The only due "punishment" I see in this scenario is for the guy who roams alone.

I don't agree, dominion and skirmish are basically the same mode without incentive to play a zone and I didn't buy this game to mash buttons in an 8 man dogpile...I don't enjoy being on either the losing or winning side of a 3v1 and I don't know how that's interesting to anyone for more than like an hour.

kweassa1917
04-24-2017, 03:56 PM
I don't agree, dominion and skirmish are basically the same mode without incentive to play a zone and I didn't buy this game to mash buttons in an 8 man dogpile...I don't enjoy being on either the losing or winning side of a 3v1 and I don't know how that's interesting to anyone for more than like an hour.

Which is a matter of preference that's not to be confused with basics of game balancing. It's a shaky argument because it simply becomes a matter of "yeah? well I like it"... so then where do we draw the line on how the game's supposed to be balanced out? By my rules or your rules?

Nobody likes being ganked. That's for sure. But then again nobody likes losing either. So should there be a systematic rememdy to stop someone from losing?

(ps) and trust me, Dominion and Skirmish is nothing alike.

It's true that most PuG matches, which also probably dominates the majority of games played, has people running around with no clue as to how domination-type PvP format is played out. This general low skill level makes one think that Dom is just running in hordes in gank-squads, but I guarantee, once the game supports team-level ranked matches, people will see just how much tactics are required in game types like Domination.

Antonioj26
04-24-2017, 03:58 PM
I don't agree, dominion and skirmish are basically the same mode without incentive to play a zone and I didn't buy this game to mash buttons in an 8 man dogpile...I don't enjoy being on either the losing or winning side of a 3v1 and I don't know how that's interesting to anyone for more than like an hour.

But you don't have to mash, you are rewarded by not mashing. I don't mash and I top the charts most games. That's not me bragging I'm saying that mashing only goes so far. Going into a 4v4 game mode you have to expect that many encounters are going to be 4-8man dogpiles. If that's not your cup of tea then play the other modes. It doesn't make sense that your expecting some sort of honor in a game with no set of rules that say you have to or rewards it. Your going to find that players mostly play as a team in a team based mode and won't be straying around the map by themself because it makes no sense to do so.

Oni-Nikuya
04-24-2017, 04:11 PM
Which is a matter of preference that's not to be confused with basics of game balancing. It's a shaky argument because it simply becomes a matter of "yeah? well I like it"... so then where do we draw the line on how the game's supposed to be balanced out? By my rules or your rules?

Nobody likes being ganked. That's for sure. But then again nobody likes losing either. So should there be a systematic rememdy to stop someone from losing?

I can't tell if you're just being purposefully obtuse or what here...I'll assume not for now...

It isn't a matter of preference beyond whatever the point of the game mode is meant to be. If the game mode intends you to plant someone at A and someone at C and have two people manage B and backfill or assist as necessary, then you build mechanics that support that and discourage other types of play. The revenge mechanic and the different ways each class gains their renown in dominion clearly indicate that regardless of how your team goes about winning, the zerg was not meant to be the preferred means, and I preferred it that way. I don't like it the way it is now, if everyone else does then that's fine. I am not asking anyone to change it back, I am perfectly capable of playing until I'm bored or finding something else to do, but understand that as it was released, the dominion mode was not meant to be a mob-tactics mode. the only thing I want changed at this point is the scoring if they intend to keep things the way they are.

Oni-Nikuya
04-24-2017, 04:13 PM
But you don't have to mash, you are rewarded by not mashing. I don't mash and I top the charts most games. That's not me bragging I'm saying that mashing only goes so far. Going into a 4v4 game mode you have to expect that many encounters are going to be 4-8man dogpiles. If that's not your cup of tea then play the other modes. It doesn't make sense that your expecting some sort of honor in a game with no set of rules that say you have to or rewards it. Your going to find that players mostly play as a team in a team based mode and won't be straying around the map by themself because it makes no sense to do so.

I don't even know what we're talking about here...my point is not this difficult to understand.

DuhSavagePickle
04-24-2017, 04:32 PM
I see everyone crying about not being able to take out 4 people by themselves anymore.

Their "I Win" button was removed and replaced with a "need skill" button and they can't seem to handle it.

Yous can come up with all the excuses in the book but when it comes down to it you should lose that 1v3+ scenario 80% of the time, perhaps even more.

I say 1v3 and not 1v2 because 1v2's are still extremely likely to win.

Those who complain now about "gank-fests" are only using that as an excuse because they're simple the ones that would pop revenge in a 1v1 when they're getting their asses kicked, or they're the ones that try to tank the entire enemy team by spamming zone attacks and getting unlimited armor basically over and over again.

Use the excuse "People didn't defend right against it." When in reality you would be the ones to make it so that you're fighting more than 1 guy at a time because simply put... You can deny it all you want but fighting more than 1 enemy was 10x easier than fightin a 1v1. Why? Because it was broken.


There is nothing wrong with it now, it is PERFECT. "Not enough defense raise defense" <<< the only ones using that excuse now are the ones that attack blindly in a 1v2+ scenario and have absolutely no idea what parry/deflect/dodge/ using skill means.

Because they are so used to being a Super Saiyan God that they completely forgot about how the game was supposed to be by spamming that stupid broken game mechanic revenge and just mindlessly attacking without fear of taking damage because it was BROKEN.

And if anyone says it's impossible in a 1v2+ situation, I can happily send you clips of me in 1v2 and 1v3 situations either winning, or putting up a damn good fight.

For hints and tips for those noobs that depended on the "I win" muffin button, throw some of your opponents into their teammates, wait for your attacks, parry when needed because that then activates auto parry for anyone else that attacks you and then knocks them down giving you a chance to inflict some damage to some of the other enemies.
Don't just stand in one spot and mindlessly spam Light attack hoping to 2 shot everyone.


And for those that say "Well you don't know what us console players go through." Yes, I do... I play Xbox one.

This gets me heated revenge is perfect now and it takes SKILL to win a 1v2+ scenario the way it's supposed to. I love having the odds stacked against me and putting my skill to the test because nothing feels better than knowing I walked out of that situation with nothing but SKILL. Not a broken mechanic.

I get lots of messages from team mates AND enemies telling me good game, because I actually won 1v3 situations with my own power, not gear or brokenness.

"Gank Squads, Gank squads, Gank squads."
Have yous forgotten that the game starts off in a 4v4, not a 1v4. Both teams have the same odds of winning. Even more so than before the patch.

If your teammates die, it's not your opponents fault.

You're going to lose a 1v4. If you feel you SHOULD have won that 1v4, it's because you had a taste of Super Saiyan God Mode... No, you had a taste of being a God of Destruction and want it back.

(Sorry for the typos of they're any, sent this off my phone.)

Lumina-US
04-24-2017, 05:15 PM
And for those that say "Well you don't know what us console players go through." Yes, I do... I play Xbox one.So do i - enjoyed your 18+ disconnects today already?

Btw. i hope you speak of text-messages in the inbox of your account, because people telling you a (or several) "good fight" in-game, doesn't always mean you did well. ;)

Like this:

Wow!
Wow!
Wow!
Please wait 5.0 seconds!

Good fight!
Good fight!
Good fight!
Please wait 5.0 seconds!

Oni-Nikuya
04-24-2017, 05:20 PM
I see everyone crying about not being able to take out 4 people by themselves anymore.

Their "I Win" button was removed and replaced with a "need skill" button and they can't seem to handle it.

Yous can come up with all the excuses in the book but when it comes down to it you should lose that 1v3+ scenario 80% of the time, perhaps even more.

I say 1v3 and not 1v2 because 1v2's are still extremely likely to win.

Those who complain now about "gank-fests" are only using that as an excuse because they're simple the ones that would pop revenge in a 1v1 when they're getting their asses kicked, or they're the ones that try to tank the entire enemy team by spamming zone attacks and getting unlimited armor basically over and over again.

Use the excuse "People didn't defend right against it." When in reality you would be the ones to make it so that you're fighting more than 1 guy at a time because simply put... You can deny it all you want but fighting more than 1 enemy was 10x easier than fightin a 1v1. Why? Because it was broken.


There is nothing wrong with it now, it is PERFECT. "Not enough defense raise defense" <<< the only ones using that excuse now are the ones that attack blindly in a 1v2+ scenario and have absolutely no idea what parry/deflect/dodge/ using skill means.

Because they are so used to being a Super Saiyan God that they completely forgot about how the game was supposed to be by spamming that stupid broken game mechanic revenge and just mindlessly attacking without fear of taking damage because it was BROKEN.

And if anyone says it's impossible in a 1v2+ situation, I can happily send you clips of me in 1v2 and 1v3 situations either winning, or putting up a damn good fight.

For hints and tips for those noobs that depended on the "I win" muffin button, throw some of your opponents into their teammates, wait for your attacks, parry when needed because that then activates auto parry for anyone else that attacks you and then knocks them down giving you a chance to inflict some damage to some of the other enemies.
Don't just stand in one spot and mindlessly spam Light attack hoping to 2 shot everyone.


And for those that say "Well you don't know what us console players go through." Yes, I do... I play Xbox one.

This gets me heated revenge is perfect now and it takes SKILL to win a 1v2+ scenario the way it's supposed to. I love having the odds stacked against me and putting my skill to the test because nothing feels better than knowing I walked out of that situation with nothing but SKILL. Not a broken mechanic.

I get lots of messages from team mates AND enemies telling me good game, because I actually won 1v3 situations with my own power, not gear or brokenness.

"Gank Squads, Gank squads, Gank squads."
Have yous forgotten that the game starts off in a 4v4, not a 1v4. Both teams have the same odds of winning. Even more so than before the patch.

If your teammates die, it's not your opponents fault.

You're going to lose a 1v4. If you feel you SHOULD have won that 1v4, it's because you had a taste of Super Saiyan God Mode... No, you had a taste of being a God of Destruction and want it back.

(Sorry for the typos of they're any, sent this off my phone.)

Can't speak for anyone else, but this is not my complaint. I am only disappointed that the lack of anything to deter zergs from happening, it's all I see. It's not a win/loss complaint, it is a gameplay tactics complaint. I don't care to be a part of the zerg, nor be faced to fight it alone. Arguments that dominion is meant to be zerged are ********. The scoring alone indicates otherwise. Heavies getting points for standing on a point, points being boosted by having a defender, assassins gaining their points from winning 1v1 fights...and as it was, revenge to deter people getting crushed for trying to complete these objectives. I have also stated before I am not lobbying for a change, if this is how the current community cares it to be, fine. I still say having played from pre-alpha that the gear stats created the revenge problem, it was never an issue when everyone was less than rank 1 (dominion specific statement).

Antonioj26
04-24-2017, 05:37 PM
I don't even know what we're talking about here...my point is not this difficult to understand.

I understood what you said, it wasn't difficult And neither is what I said. you said you don't think game should be a mash fest and I just said don't do it, what's difficult about understanding that. I said you play better when you don't mash. I also said if you don't want to play against people that are playing as a team then don't play a team based mode. It's like playing Ctf and expecting 1v1s

Antonioj26
04-24-2017, 05:42 PM
Can't speak for anyone else, but this is not my complaint. I am only disappointed that the lack of anything to deter zergs from happening, it's all I see. It's not a win/loss complaint, it is a gameplay tactics complaint. I don't care to be a part of the zerg, nor be faced to fight it alone. Arguments that dominion is meant to be zerged are ********. The scoring alone indicates otherwise. Heavies getting points for standing on a point, points being boosted by having a defender, assassins gaining their points from winning 1v1 fights...and as it was, revenge to deter people getting crushed for trying to complete these objectives. I have also stated before I am not lobbying for a change, if this is how the current community cares it to be, fine. I still say having played from pre-alpha that the gear stats created the revenge problem, it was never an issue when everyone was less than rank 1 (dominion specific statement).

If people are zerging in dominion then punish them by capping the points they aren't on. It's not hard dude. If 4 guys are at A then B and C are open. Zerging isn't an effective way to win dominion if the opposite team has the slightest speck of coordination.

DuhSavagePickle
04-24-2017, 05:47 PM
I still say having played from pre-alpha that the gear stats created the revenge problem, it was never an issue when everyone was less than rank 1 (dominion specific statement).

I agree one hundred percent with that. I've played since the first closed beta, and to be honest, that was the most fun I've had on this game.

Alustar.
04-24-2017, 07:49 PM
The common misconception here is that those defending the news form of revenge are mislabeling a group as "anti-revenge" and that's a misnomer. We aren't anti revenge, we are pro revenge. The mechanics has and serves its INTENDED purpose. To aid in the survivabilty of a player against multiple opponents.

The point of our argument that each and everyone of you defending the old mechanic have failed to address is the use and abuse of a DEFENSIVE mechanic for offensive gains.

We aren't saying you can't or shouldn't be able to take out groups of people solo, just that none of us should have relied o. Revenge as a means of doing so.
FYI I have videos of me diving into groups with little thought other than "revenge will save me" and it did.
You sti can take out groups solo. And revenge will still HELP you. It just will not be the offensive gimmick it was before.

tbtsrjc
04-24-2017, 08:49 PM
As a player that leveled up Revenge gear, I believe that a nerf was needed. Those saying that it was never an "I win" button are in denial or never knew how to pull off any effective offense after popping it. I won many matches 1v4 pre nerf.

Now that being said I believe it was nerfed a little too much. People no longer respect it, they'll circle you like a pack of wolves eager to ******** you. I believe it should be buffed slightly to where it'll give you a bit more of edge than it does now, but not to what it was. Overall I'm happy with what it is now compared to what it was previously. Low geared characters never stood a chance against a Revenge built character.

Perhaps keep the attack power where it is, but increase the duration and the level of defense. I believe it should at least help you survive until reinforcements arrive or so that you can attempt to flee. Not everyone that gets outnumbered is a bad player, sometimes a pack of a-holes find you first. It shouldn't turn you into a God on the battlefield but it should help you survive more than it does now.

Lumina-US
04-24-2017, 10:04 PM
As a player that leveled up Revenge gear, I believe that a nerf was needed. Those saying that it was never an "I win" button are in denial or never knew how to pull off any effective offense after popping it. I won many matches 1v4 pre nerf.

Now that being said I believe it was nerfed a little too much. People no longer respect it, they'll circle you like a pack of wolves eager to ******** you. I believe it should be buffed slightly to where it'll give you a bit more of edge than it does now, but not to what it was. Overall I'm happy with what it is now compared to what it was previously. Low geared characters never stood a chance against a Revenge built character.

Perhaps keep the attack power where it is, but increase the duration and the level of defense. I believe it should at least help you survive until reinforcements arrive or so that you can attempt to flee. Not everyone that gets outnumbered is a bad player, sometimes a pack of a-holes find you first. It shouldn't turn you into a God on the battlefield but it should help you survive more than it does now.My thoughts exactly, but as soon as i said a little bit of extra power and further tweaks are needed, the "Oh don't you touch it again, it's Purrfect now" Police arrived.

According to them it's also our own fault when we get ********ed 3 on 1, because we need to git gud...

Antonioj26
04-25-2017, 12:17 AM
My thoughts exactly, but as soon as i said a little bit of extra power and further tweaks are needed, the "Oh don't you touch it again, it's Purrfect now" Police arrived.

According to them it's also our own fault when we get ********ed 3 on 1, because we need to git gud...

Yes dude it is your fault as I've explained if you found yourself in that situation it's either your fault for not being with your team or it's their fault for all be de yes dude it is your fault as I've explained if you found your self in that situation it's either your fault for not being with your team or it's their fault for all being dead. Stop trying to take on three guys at once you're not Goku.

Lumina-US
04-25-2017, 12:24 AM
Yes dude it is your fault as I've explained if you found yourself in that situation it's either your fault for not being with your team or it's their fault for all be de yes dude it is your fault as I've explained if you found your self in that situation it's either your fault for not being with your team or it's their fault for all being dead. Stop trying to take on three guys at once you're not Goku.Cry me a river - how about you just play in your own style and let the others be... well, you know the others.

You asume a whole damn lot about someone you have never seen playing even once - dude...

You must think i bought my 20 rep lvls - right?

Antonioj26
04-25-2017, 12:30 AM
Cry me a river - how about you just play in your own style and let the others be... well, you know the others.

You asume a whole damn lot about someone you have never seen playing even once - dude...

You must think i bought my 20 rep lvls - right?

Where am I crying? I'm throwing you common sense since you can't seem to grasp it. if you are outnumbered you are at a disadvantage, am I wrong?

Lumina-US
04-25-2017, 12:50 AM
Where am I crying? I'm throwing you common sense since you can't seem to grasp it. if you are outnumbered you are at a disadvantage, am I wrong?Yet you claimed ANYONE who ends up outnumbered, is at his own fault - But sure, all random pugers from that tarde Matchmaking-system will exactly know how to play as a team from the very start on and follow every command or even just advice you give.

You gotta lot to learn kid - note to yourself: Not everyone who ends up outnumbered is responsible for it alone everytime - sometimes, you may as well just end up with either less xped players or dudes that only care for kills resp. their own K/D, instead of good tactics and teamplay, but sure, every 3 on 1 situation is my own fault.

God, i really hope you get tons and tons of matches like that now, so you can rethink your nonsense.

UbiJurassic
04-25-2017, 01:03 AM
The development team is monitoring the changes to revenge closely and we have been forwarding everyone's feedback on it to them. If there are further changes that need to be made to it, they will investigate further ways to balance the mechanic.

Antonioj26
04-25-2017, 01:04 AM
Yet you claimed ANYONE who ends up outnumbered, is at his own fault - But sure, all random pugers from that tarde Matchmaking-system will exactly know how to play as a team from the very start on and follow every command or even just advice you give.

You gotta lot to learn kid - note to yourself: Not everyone who ends up outnumbered is responsible for it alone everytime - sometimes, you may as well just end up with either less xped players or dudes that only care for kills resp. their own K/D, instead of good tactics and teamplay, but sure, every 3 on 1 situation is my own fault.

God, i really hope you get tons and tons of matches like that now, so you can rethink your nonsense.

Yeah and I stand by what my claim is. I just told you that it's not always your fault though, I literally said it could also be your teams fault for all dying and leaving you alone.
If I do end up in a game I'll stick with my team, and if they all die then I will do my best to 1v3 but I won't expect to have a level playing field because it was already a level playing field. It would be like if a basketball team was up 20 points and then In the last two minutes of the game the other team was given 20 points to level the playing field and then managed to make the game winning shot. Doesn't make sense.

ArlianDeBias
04-25-2017, 02:12 AM
The pros and cons of the old revenge system and the new one:

Old Revenge

Pros:

Enabled players to successfully fight off multiple attackers.
Punished enemies who teamed against a single player


Cons:

Teams who did not know how to deal with revenged enemies got punished, and mistakingly took this as a sign that revenge was overpowered rather than a lack of their own ability.
Revenge gain was too high.
No cooldown on revenge lead to revenge happening far too often.


New Revenge

Pros:

Enemies are easier to kill for less experienced players
Larger emphasis on team play means playing with friends and communicating is more rewarding.


Cons:

Teaming against players now encouraged.
Less skillful play encouraged when teaming (spamming heavies does not require much skill).
Larger emphasis on team play means random games are more frustrating and depends more on the quality of your team.


These are just my opinions from the 300 hundreds of play time I've played. There are good and bad sides to both the new and old system. I believe the recent nerfs were a good thing, but I think Ubisoft went overboard and actually caused revenge to become more useless than it needed to be. I think the revenge system would be in a good place after some slight buffs all around.

Antonioj26
04-25-2017, 02:57 AM
The pros and cons of the old revenge system and the new one:

Old Revenge

Pros:

Enabled players to successfully fight off multiple attackers.
Punished enemies who teamed against a single player


Cons:

Teams who did not know how to deal with revenged enemies got punished, and mistakingly took this as a sign that revenge was overpowered rather than a lack of their own ability.
Revenge gain was too high.
No cooldown on revenge lead to revenge happening far too often.


New Revenge

Pros:

Enemies are easier to kill for less experienced players
Larger emphasis on team play means playing with friends and communicating is more rewarding.


Cons:

Teaming against players now encouraged.
Less skillful play encouraged when teaming (spamming heavies does not require much skill).
Larger emphasis on team play means random games are more frustrating and depends more on the quality of your team.


These are just my opinions from the 300 hundreds of play time I've played. There are good and bad sides to both the new and old system. I believe the recent nerfs were a good thing, but I think Ubisoft went overboard and actually caused revenge to become more useless than it needed to be. I think the revenge system would be in a good place after some slight buffs all around.

Id say I agree with this almost completely. The only think I would add is a con to the old revenge is people who knew how to abuse it (running into groups solo, gaining revenge, holding on to it while attacking the enemy, waiting for an enemy to attack you, and then one shotting them while they are on the ground) could make it over powered. Something a few have suggested and I agree with as well is increasing the defense boost of it to balance out the amount of damage you may take when getting ganged up on.

Maybe even having it scale with the more enemies attacking you to. In one hand I would argue that if a group of 4 prenerf lost to a solo guy then they were terrible and deserved it but in another way I also look at it from the perspective of taking 4 people out of a fight (I don't mean solo actually killing them) or at least keeping 4 people occupied by one player seems a bit off especially if his teammates are alive. If it's at breaking point or elimination then I can't justify any group of 4 losing to a solo, prenerf or not. So maybe even having it scale with breaking point or more so when you are the final man against 4.

SerrowvonHerow
04-25-2017, 03:07 AM
I think the nerf should have focused on the frequency rather than the power of Revenge personally. A hard cooldown of like twenty seconds or more, but still have that crazy alpha damage and high survivability while you've got it. As it stands, Revenge is more of a noob trap honestly - people pop it thinking now this is their chance to seize the momentum before they get ripped limb from limb by heavy attacks.

It was frustrating for one guy to win a 1v3 because he popped Revenge five or six times and just one shot somebody, but it's equally frustrating to be that one guy who just gets ganged up on in non-stop 1v3s because your team is off doing God knows what.

kweassa1917
04-25-2017, 03:25 AM
It was frustrating for one guy to win a 1v3 because he popped Revenge five or six times and just one shot somebody, but it's equally frustrating to be that one guy who just gets ganged up on in non-stop 1v3s because your team is off doing God knows what.

There's nothing "equal" about it at all.

The frustration involved with revenge, for the surrounding attackers, is that they can't kill someone -- whom, by all the rules of the book -- should be dead.

Think dodgeball. Another team game children play often. Imagine the attacking team did well and eliminated all the kids except but one, and they're now throwing the ball around from all directions. Except this kid, despite being hit with the ball, just goes against the rules and refuses to admit defeat. Nobody would be complaining if that kid actually dodged and evaded every ball thrown at him with sheer skill. But no, he changes the rules, and just declares "I'm not out even if I'm hit".

That's the kind of frustration the attackers deal with here. Whereas, for the lone defender, the frustration is from losing the fight because of being surrounded -- a consequence of either one's own fault, or the bad luck of having a less competent team.


Just because frustration happens in both cases doesn't mean you handle them equally.

Antonioj26
04-25-2017, 03:26 AM
I think the nerf should have focused on the frequency rather than the power of Revenge personally. A hard cooldown of like twenty seconds or more, but still have that crazy alpha damage and high survivability while you've got it. As it stands, Revenge is more of a noob trap honestly - people pop it thinking now this is their chance to seize the momentum before they get ripped limb from limb by heavy attacks.

It was frustrating for one guy to win a 1v3 because he popped Revenge five or six times and just one shot somebody, but it's equally frustrating to be that one guy who just gets ganged up on in non-stop 1v3s because your team is off doing God knows what.

I hate that I sound like a broken record but stay with your team. Yes it sucks if they are not wanting to follow you into an objective or a fight and they want to go off and do there own thing but you have a vested interest in not only your survival but there's. Keeping them alive gives the enemy more targets and preventing less gang ups. It also means you or your buddy can get a Rez off if one of you falls.

I still don't quite think the ability to one shot someone with revenge should be a thing with there being so many ways for someone with revenge being able to knock down and get a free hit. The hard cooldown on revenge is a good idea and with that in mind I think giving a reasonable buff to damage isn't out of the question. Keep the survivabily high, the duration a little more balanced, and revenge gain scale with players in your vicinity. I don't think it should happen In 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4 situations.

SerrowvonHerow
04-25-2017, 03:36 AM
There's nothing "equal" about it at all.

The frustration involved with revenge, for the surrounding attackers, is that they can't kill someone -- whom, by all the rules of the book -- should be dead.

Think dodgeball. Another team game children play often. Imagine the attacking team did well and eliminated all the kids except but one, and they're now throwing the ball around from all directions. Except this kid, despite being hit with the ball, just goes against the rules and refuses to admit defeat. Nobody would be complaining if that kid actually dodged and evaded every ball thrown at him with sheer skill. But no, he changes the rules, and just declares "I'm not out even if I'm hit".

That's the kind of frustration the attackers deal with here. Whereas, for the lone defender, the frustration is from losing the fight because of being surrounded -- a consequence of either one's own fault, or the bad luck of having a less competent team.


Just because frustration happens in both cases doesn't mean you handle them equally.

I totally understand your perspective and respect it. But at that point, the question becomes why even bother having Revenge at all then? The developers wanted it in to have some form of effect and at least be present as a mild deterrence to mindlessly ganging up wherever possible. We've gone from one end of the spectrum to the other, whereas before it was too good it is now essentially irrelevant. Following your train of thought, it would be best to just remove the mechanic entirely as there will never be a sweet spot where it isn't too good or too bad. Maybe that would be a good thing - who knows?

Antonioj26
04-25-2017, 03:45 AM
I totally understand your perspective and respect it. But at that point, the question becomes why even bother having Revenge at all then? The developers wanted it in to have some form of effect and at least be present as a mild deterrence to mindlessly ganging up wherever possible. We've gone from one end of the spectrum to the other, whereas before it was too good it is now essentially irrelevant. Following your train of thought, it would be best to just remove the mechanic entirely as there will never be a sweet spot where it isn't too good or too bad. Maybe that would be a good thing - who knows?

I personally would be fine if it was gone. I still manage to take on 2 guys and sometimes 3 with the current revenge and it probably wouldn't have happened had I not had it. It's hard fought but man is it rewarding when it happens. It honestly didn't feel rewarding before, it become more common than not.

kweassa1917
04-25-2017, 03:50 AM
I totally understand your perspective and respect it. But at that point, the question becomes why even bother having Revenge at all then? The developers wanted it in to have some form of effect and at least be present as a mild deterrence to mindlessly ganging up wherever possible. We've gone from one end of the spectrum to the other, whereas before it was too good it is now essentially irrelevant. Following your train of thought, it would be best to just remove the mechanic entirely as there will never be a sweet spot where it isn't too good or too bad. Maybe that would be a good thing - who knows?

Why do you assume we're at the "opposite end"?

You're just repeating the same arguments some people blindly blurt out in anger that 'revenge is useless', when many others have come to protest such comments and attest to the fact that it is still useful.

It still provides temp shield. it still boosts your defense and offense, it still provides unlimited stamina and gives you UI during attacks. Nothing about revenge has changed in this aspect. There are literally countless occassions revenge helped me out of a tough spot. If we were at the "oppsite end", none of such would have happened at all. The only difference is now, with the new revenge, if you want to get out of trouble by way of slaughtering everyone that attacks you you need adequate amounts of skill to do so.

I'm a realist. I don't have any fantasies about my skill level. I know I'm not skilled enough to take on 3~4 people even with revenge, so I use it as a tool of escape. It helps a lot in 1v2s, because this much I can handle with boost from revenge. IT'S WORKING EXACTLY AS THE DESCRIPTION SAYS.

The old one, despite my limitations of skill which I'm clearly aware of, used to reward with me stupid easy results. If the enemy players think it's "smart play" not to attack me in revenge, good. I stay in their side zone forever to block their scoring/capture, and at the same time I hold up 3~4 people so my teammates can ravage whatever is left.


The truth of the "I'm not asking to bring old revenge back, I just want a middle ground" argument is we're already in that middle ground..

Knight_Raime
04-25-2017, 03:50 AM
All they need to do now is remove the ability to knock people down with things like headbutt or SB while in revenge. You physically can't fight people who spam that on you after every single hit. It's especially screwy on someone like valk.