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Hillbill79
04-23-2017, 07:13 PM
I think bleeds are a little unfair....

Why should a Nobushi, or a PK have bleed attacks and others, not?

I'm pretty sure the raiders axe smashing you, or a Wardens sword for example would cause significant bleeding.....

Why doesn't every character have a bleed?

They should either all have bleeds, or none should have bleeds outside of feats, and everyone should have it as an option.

Getting a bit fed up with PK and Nobushi applying a bleed and running away.... then doing their best to repeat it, over and over.

What you guys think?

All, none... or feat only?

EDIT... I forgot to add an option for " its fine as it is"

CitizenPuddi
04-23-2017, 07:14 PM
Using realism isn't exactly a good argument.

Also your poll is skewed beyond all usefulness.

DrExtrem
04-23-2017, 07:14 PM
Bleeds are balanced ...

... But only, because I main warden. :p

Hillbill79
04-23-2017, 07:17 PM
Using realism isn't exactly a good argument.

Also your poll is skewed beyond all usefulness.

How so?

kweassa1917
04-23-2017, 07:17 PM
I know it can be frustrating, but I can't really see anything wrong with it.

I've encountered all sorts of DoT based classes in all sorts of games (*ugh, WoW/Burning Crusade Warlocks still make me want to puke...*) and I honestly don't feel it's unfair or anything. PvP usually prefers burst damage, which means DoT classes have their own share of problems to face.

Draghmar
04-23-2017, 07:18 PM
Going this thought we can say that each class should have everything that other classes have. Like for example - why only Orochi, PK and Valkyrie should have deflect?
Your idea just makes no sense. Bleed is unique to Nobushi, PK and a little to Valkyrie - yes she does bleeding attack too although it's not as easy to pull off.

CandleInTheDark
04-23-2017, 07:19 PM
Given that you've not put in an option for 'as is' it is not an entirely fair poll as answering it at all means we agree it should be taken away from the characters that have it. The premise of all would cause cuts, or cuts to that level, is also somewhat inaccurate. If you look at the people who have bleed, and you can include the Valkyrie's limited option in this, the surface area of the weapon that causes it is much smaller at the point that it hits, the dagger and the naginata, rather than being slashing weapons, are piercing weapons and rather than a long shallow cut would do a smaller deeper one. Getting away from the 'realism' aspect, you also have this, if you don't give them bleed, you are going to see a lot more spammy peacekeepers and nobushi as this becomes their only option. On the pc it will cripple those characters, on the console it will be a nightmare for everyone else.

Hillbill79
04-23-2017, 07:20 PM
Going this thought we can say that each class should have everything that other classes have. Like for example - why only Orochi, PK and Valkyrie should have deflect?
Your idea just makes no sense. Bleed is unique to Nobushi, PK and a little to Valkyrie - yes she does bleeding attack too although it's not as easy to pull off.

Valk has deflect?

You mean Zerker?

CandleInTheDark
04-23-2017, 07:21 PM
Valk has deflect?

You mean Zerker?

Nope, Valk, it is just rarely used because trip spam, and it is harder than peacekeeper's.

IesooMI
04-23-2017, 07:22 PM
It's an interesting mechanic, and I have a feeling that we will
Be seeing more of it with the DLC characters.

Gray360UK
04-23-2017, 07:23 PM
Very biased poll, you are only giving options that support your opinion, one side of the argument.

As someone with a PK, a Nobushi and a Warden, all at a decent Rep level, I couldn't care less that the Warden doesn't have bleed and the other two do. Each character has strengths and weaknesses. My PK can't turtle behind a shield like Warlord and Conqueror ... there are pros and cons to everything.

Hillbill79
04-23-2017, 07:24 PM
Why cant they just have normal damage instead of a bleed? I don't mean remove any damage capability... just swap it out.

My issue isn't with bleeds as such, but people abusing it... apply bleed and run away so you cant fight back... if they just did straight damage, then they wouldn't be running off.

I'm more referring to duel/brawl than 4v4 as I said, have it as a feat...... Orochi and Zerker do, but they're assassins.... yet nobushi and valk are not assassins. And get it as standard. Yet LB, even though he has a spear... gets none of it.


Given that you've not put in an option for 'as is' it is not an entirely fair poll. The premise of all would cause cuts, or cuts to that level, is also somewhat inaccurate. If you look at the people who have bleed, and you can include the Valkyrie's limited option in this, the surface area of the weapon that causes it is much smaller at the point that it hits, the dagger and the naginata, rather than being slashing weapons, are piercing weapons. Getting away from the 'realism' aspect, you also have this, if you don't give them bleed, you are going to see a lot more spammy peacekeepers and nobushi as this becomes their only option. On the pc it will cripple those characters, on the console it will be a nightmare for everyone else.

Hillbill79
04-23-2017, 07:26 PM
Very biased poll, you are only giving options that support your opinion, one side of the argument.

As someone with a PK, a Nobushi and a Warden, all at a decent Rep level, I couldn't care less that the Warden doesn't have bleed and the other two do. Each character has strengths and weaknesses. My PK can't turtle behind a shield like Warlord and Conqueror ... there are pros and cons to everything.

I meant to add a third option, don't know how to edit it.

How many defending bleed, use bleed characters?

Gray360UK
04-23-2017, 07:30 PM
I meant to add a third option, don't know how to edit it.

How many defending bleed, use bleed characters?

I don't see that there's anything to defend, like I say, I have multiple characters at a decent level, and all characters at Rep 1+, and it's never occured to me to worry what one of them doesn't have compared to another. I concentrate on what they do have. They are all very different, very varied characters, and I don't believe bleed makes the ones that have it OP, anymore than I believe shields or shoulder bashes or headbutts or sweeps or pancake tosses or back breaks (okay, that one sucks) makes the other characters OP.

I get that it's frustrating to bleed to death, but it's equally frustrating to have a Warlord turtle, a Shoguki break your back, a Valkyrie sweep you, etc etc ...

kweassa1917
04-23-2017, 07:30 PM
It's not so far as that people are "defending" bleed, but rather not seeing anything wrong with a different type of damage as a gimmick.

And trust me, Hillbill, you DON'T want to see Nobs or PKs dealing ALL their damage at once every time they poke you with a spear, or stab you in the gut with a dagger.

Most usually, the reason why devs give DoT type damages to certain classes is if they give full damage on first hit, it'd become OP. It usually happens when a certain class type has efficient or tricky attacks, which may be too OP if they slapped on a decent damage on top of it. However, if they just limit it to small damage, then such classes can become underpowered.

So DoTs are a compromise in which a certain portion of damage comes in a delayed timing.

CandleInTheDark
04-23-2017, 07:30 PM
Peacekeeper main and yes I use bleeds exactly like that, it is my job to close the distance, get my damage and damage over time in and then not get hit by you, it is your job to either stop the bleed or to punish me for engaging or disengaging. And like I said, doyou really want more spammy peacekeepers? Because right now I can use my kit and get abused or I can abuse her lights and get abused.

Hillbill79
04-23-2017, 07:32 PM
Light spamming PK's are a pleasure to fight, they die quickly :) (PC)


Peacekeeper main and yes I use bleeds exactly like that, it is my job to close the distance, get my damage and damage over time in and then not get hit by you, it is your job to either stop the bleed or to punish me for engaging or disengaging. And like I said, doyou really want more spammy peacekeepers? Because right now I can use my kit and get abused or I can abuse her lights and get abused.

CitizenPuddi
04-23-2017, 07:32 PM
Doesn't debuff resistance have a mitigative effect on bleeds?

Gray360UK
04-23-2017, 07:33 PM
Doesn't debuff resistance have a mitigative effect on bleeds?

Yep :)

Hillbill79
04-23-2017, 07:35 PM
Doesn't debuff resistance have a mitigative effect on bleeds?

Yeah, to some extent.... and there are feats (thick blood) which reduce the damage further...But picking debuff resistance over exhaustion recovery or RM duration isn't common.

And they don't work in duel and brawl

CitizenPuddi
04-23-2017, 07:35 PM
Yep :)

found the counterplay

wheres my trophy

Mankind..
04-23-2017, 07:38 PM
Nope, Valk, it is just rarely used because trip spam, and it is harder than peacekeeper's.

What do you mean harder then PK, deflecting is the same dodge at same timing for your counterbleed exactly the same.....

CandleInTheDark
04-23-2017, 07:38 PM
Light spamming PK's are a pleasure to fight, they die quickly :) (PC)

So basically you want to take away the only option that works against you on the PC, and again until the devs standardise gameplay through console specific balancing, that's going to cause a nightmare for the console users


Yeah, to some extent.... and there are feats (thick blood) which reduce the damage further...But picking debuff resistance over exhaustion recovery or RM duration isn't common.

And that is the choice you make, :if you go with a revenge build you are either going to be gassed a long time or have no debuff against bleed. Myself, I have max debuff high exhaustion recovery.

CandleInTheDark
04-23-2017, 07:40 PM
What do you mean harder then PK, deflecting is the same dodge at same timing for your counterbleed exactly the same.....

Hmm,mmk, I found it quite a bit harder but I only used Valk when I was pretty new to the game so it is possibly that. I have used it, I have never had it used against me, most are trying to trip me over.

Hillbill79
04-23-2017, 07:41 PM
You missed my point I think mate.

All I said, was id rather they did direct damage for the same moves, over bleeds...... nothing would change other than those little ****s not applying the bleed and then running round the map waiting for you to bleed....... rather have the fight, than the cat and mouse games. I've lost count of the number of times ive died, after being stabbed... and then killing them... and then dying. Not so bad if you get an execution... as you get a bit of health... but if you don't get the execution.. but kill them.... then you die a second later... and its a tie, well, that shouldn't be a thing.


So basically you want to take away the only option that works against you on the PC, and again until the devs standardise gameplay through console specific balancing, that's going to cause a nightmare for the console users



And that is the choice you make, :if you go with a revenge build you are either going to be gassed a long time or have no debuff against bleed. Myself, I have max debuff high exhaustion recovery.

Dry.Fish
04-23-2017, 07:44 PM
I think with Nobushi the bleeds balance her. Depending on her HP you still have enough time to pull off a win or tie.

CandleInTheDark
04-23-2017, 07:46 PM
You missed my point I think mate.

All I said, was id rather they did direct damage for the same moves, over bleeds...... nothing would change other than those little ****s not applying the bleed and then running round the map waiting for you to bleed....... rather have the fight, than the cat and mouse games.

Two things, one, you can't lessen the damage of those moves, because they are the only real option other than a constant barrage against light attacks, two, it actually benefits you in two ways, firstly, there is a cap to how much bleed can be stacked at once. Do you want to know how many times I get deep gouge or the guardbreak in a round? Trust me when I say you would be dead a lot quicker if that was all applied at once without a cap, the damage capacity is actually lessened by the cap on bleed and secondly it gives you time, even if I put you into a bleed that will kill you, you have about five seconds to kill me and while it doesn't happen to me often, I can certainly tell you about the times an opponent has hit the finishing blow and then died after the point they have been awarded the round.

Hillbill79
04-23-2017, 07:49 PM
I edited my post above to include the dying after killing scenario, before I read that :)


Two things, one, you can't lessen the damage of those moves, because they are the only real option other than a constant of barrage against light attacks, two, it actually benefits you in two ways, firstly, there is a cap to how much bleed can be stacked at once. Do you want to know how many times I get deep gouge or the guardbreak in a round? Trust me when I say you would be dead a lot quicker if that was all applied at once without a cap, the damage capacity is actually lessened by the cap on bleed and secondly it gives you time, even if I put you into a bleed that will kill you, you have about five seconds to kill me and while it doesn't happen to me often, I can certainly tell you about the times an opponent has hit the finishing blow and then died after the point they have been awarded the round.

CandleInTheDark
04-23-2017, 07:53 PM
I edited my post above to include the dying after killing scenario, before I read that :)

What you are arguing would actually have lost you those rounds you tied, and it goes the other way also, if you don't spend the time to execute, generally the point is awarded before you run out of life.

CitizenPuddi
04-23-2017, 07:55 PM
I don't have much of an opinion one way or another about bleeds as a mechanic.

They have mined some serious salt tonnage from me personally in the past, however.

CandleInTheDark
04-23-2017, 07:56 PM
I don't have much of an opinion one way or another about bleeds as a mechanic.

They have mined some serious salt tonnage from me personally in the past, however.

Yeah it is like I said above, a peacekeeper main can't win either way in terms of salt, you will get hatemail if you use nothing but lights, you will get hatemail if you let people bleed out.

Hillbill79
04-23-2017, 07:58 PM
You don't always get a choice to execute. Depends whether you finish them with a light or heavy....

Vs Nobushi, or PK... a lot of kills are from dodge attacks. Which for the guys I play mostly, is a light. ('Zerker/Roach/Kensei)

The match can be awarded before I die... sure.... but often not too.

I also think every guy should have a dodge attack of some description, but they don't.


What you are arguing would actually have lost you those rounds you tied, and it goes the other way also, if you don't spend the time to execute, generally the point is awarded before you run out of life.

CandleInTheDark
04-23-2017, 08:08 PM
You don't always get a choice to execute. Depends whether you finish them with a light or heavy....

Vs Nobushi, or PK... a lot of kills are from dodge attacks. Which for the guys I play mostly, is a light. ('Zerker/Roach/Kensei)

The match can be awarded before I die... sure.... but often not too.

I also think every guy should have a dodge attack of some description, but they don't.

Yeah, you do get a choice, you can mvoe backwards, you don't actually have to execute them.

And because you asked how many people defending bleed are mains who have them, I will point out that me and one other in this thread were among those saying the peacekeeper needed nerfing, but there is nerfing and there trying to take everything off her.

And again, in your example where you are tying because bleed takes you after the kill, either you are wanting to nerf her further by removing the damage the bleed does over time or you would have already lost the round before you landed that killing blow if you took all that damage at once so if anything it has benefited you.

Hillbill79
04-23-2017, 08:13 PM
Honestly, I AM saying I would rather die by direct damage, than by the bleed and run method( even if I lose more). My K/D ratio means nothing... I'm not a stat padder or tournament player... I have no intention to be... I just like to play the game... Not much annoys me... but for some reason, this does.


Yeah, you do get a choice, you can mvoe backwards, you don't actually have to execute them.

And because you asked how many people defending bleed are mains who have them, I will point out that me and one other in this thread were among those saying the peacekeeper needed nerfing, but there is nerfing and there trying to take everything off her.

And again, in your example where you are tying because bleed takes you after the kill, either you are wanting to nerf her further by removing the damage the bleed does over time or you would have already lost the round before you landed that killing blow if you took all that damage at once so if anything it has benefited you.

CandleInTheDark
04-23-2017, 09:05 PM
Took time out to cool down, got a little hot and ranty. The problem is that with direct damage those moves really would be overpowered, I wasn't here when the triple stab did half a bar but I have heard of the complaints, now imagine that it did a quarter but before the time the bleed would have capped out you get hit by that twice more, or by a few deep gouges. Without the bleed cap, those moves become overpowered, but bring them down so they don't do that damage at all then it really is over-nerfing (and this bearing in mind I am not one of those who said there was nothing wrong pre-nerf), whichever option you go, you'd get a lot of backlash either way.

RatedChaotic
04-23-2017, 11:25 PM
Not going to vote since its one sided. Tho having said that.....I only have one issue with the bleed mechanic.....it cancels an execution if the opponent dies by bleed in the middle of the execution animation. It sucks when that happens. But realisticly I understand why lol. It seems to happen to me alot on the Nobushi. Its mostly my fault but dang it sucks lol.

CandleInTheDark
04-23-2017, 11:35 PM
Not going to vote since its one sided. Tho having said that.....I only have one issue with the bleed mechanic.....it cancels an execution if the opponent dies by bleed in the middle of the execution animation. It sucks when that happens. But realisticly I understand why lol. It seems to happen to me alot on the Nobushi

I've had a nobushi and I bleed out at the same damn time >.> I can only imagine a river of blood on the battlefield

RatedChaotic
04-23-2017, 11:39 PM
I've had a nobushi and I bleed out at the same damn time >.> I can only imagine a river of blood on the battlefield

Same here....Gotta love those ties..

UbiJurassic
04-24-2017, 12:13 AM
I meant to add a third option, don't know how to edit it.

How many defending bleed, use bleed characters?

I can fix the options for you. ;)

What did you want the third option to be?

Hillbill79
04-24-2017, 12:17 AM
I can fix the options for you. ;)

What did you want the third option to be?

Just to keep it as it is.

If anyone has other suggestions, then maybe those too. :)

Thanks mate!

UbiJurassic
04-24-2017, 01:05 AM
Just to keep it as it is.

If anyone has other suggestions, then maybe those too. :)

Thanks mate!

Done! Let me know if there's anything else.

Hillbill79
04-24-2017, 01:36 AM
Thanks mate :)


Done! Let me know if there's anything else.

IMMA_MAILGEYMER
04-24-2017, 02:16 AM
I can't see the git gud option in this poll...

CoyoteXStarrk
04-24-2017, 02:39 AM
Absolutely no need to change it.

The people who have bleeds are fine and the bleed fits perfectly with the playstyle of the Hero.

kweassa1917
04-24-2017, 03:06 AM
I can't see the git gud option in this poll...

...nor the "prepare debuff resistance gear if its really that menacing" option....

Just saying.

CandleInTheDark
04-24-2017, 03:10 AM
...nor the "prepare debuff resistance gear if its really that menacing" option....

Just saying.

Most of my work is done by bleed, debuff resistance was my first priority >.> Though a berserker for me would have feat cooldown first, nothing says tell death I sent you like a throwing axe in the back :p

Herbstlicht
04-24-2017, 09:40 AM
I like bleeds. I dislike the immunity some classes can get, because as Nobushi, it hurts my damage by a serious degree. For your information: Nobushi does very mediocre damage when no bleed is running. With a bleed, Nobushi belongs to the highest damagest chars in the game, so she really can shine now. Thing is: In a standart 1on1 situation, you will get your bleed in, but not always, not guaranteed, not through the whole match. So in the end, it is just some "icing on the cake", something that makes the character different, but for sure not overpowered.

Of course, Peacekeeper can feel on a whole different level. I mean: if you want to bite your screen due to side attack heavy stabs and then get jumped on and triple-stabbed - hell yeah, that's a lot of bleed damage. But i think it still is "fair". It is the Peacekeeper-kit, being the god of intense damage in short intervals. Not that the whole kit is fine yet, but her being a killing machine is not wrong as long as she can be outplayed.

Elzziwelzzif
04-24-2017, 10:02 AM
Would love direct damage over bleed as a Nobushi.
With the predictable bleed attacks (always top, or after 2 lights) it would be much more deadly to just hit a ton.

With the turtle freaks out there its hard to score 2 lights (slow guard switch), and smart people can predict the top stabs when they see you back-paddle dash forwards.

For the 10 hits i try i might hit 2 against an avarage player.
And those two arent always the bleed attacks.

DrinkinMehStella
04-24-2017, 10:05 AM
keep it as it is.

Draghmar
04-24-2017, 10:10 AM
Would love direct damage over bleed as a Nobushi.
With the predictable bleed attacks (always top, or after 2 lights) it would be much more deadly to just hit a ton.

With the turtle freaks out there its hard to score 2 lights (slow guard switch), and smart people can predict the top stabs when they see you back-paddle dash forwards.

For the 10 hits i try i might hit 2 against an avarage player.
And those two arent always the bleed attacks.
Remember that's balancing things out doesn't mean that you should have 100% chance of hit/bleed/whatever. It's hard to hit with Nobushi but it's not as hard as some people are suggesting. For example I found that it's much easier to apply bleed from left/right side attack but only after confusing your opponent with different kind of attacks *and* side stepping.

vgrimr_J
04-24-2017, 10:19 AM
oh boy you ppl sure want to water this game down a lot

Dude_of_Valor
04-24-2017, 10:21 AM
Keep it as it is. Yes it sucks when you die from DoT but am sure people equally say that when I go from SB into GB to throwing you off a ledge. Enjoy the game and the challenges that come with it.

Aarpian
04-24-2017, 11:54 AM
I think bleeds are a little unfair....

Why should a Nobushi, or a PK have bleed attacks and others, not?

I'm pretty sure the raiders axe smashing you, or a Wardens sword for example would cause significant bleeding.....

Why doesn't every character have a bleed?

They should either all have bleeds, or none should have bleeds outside of feats, and everyone should have it as an option.

Getting a bit fed up with PK and Nobushi applying a bleed and running away.... then doing their best to repeat it, over and over.

What you guys think?

All, none... or feat only?

EDIT... I forgot to add an option for " its fine as it is"

Bleeds are just a ****tier version of regular damage. Why would anybody opt to do 40 damage over 5 seconds when they can do it instantly?

Knight_Gregor
04-24-2017, 04:19 PM
Bleeds are just a ****tier version of regular damage. Why would anybody opt to do 40 damage over 5 seconds when they can do it instantly?

Why do you look at it as if it is in place of the instant damage? Most often it is a guarantee'd follow up to a confirmed hit.


Very biased poll, you are only giving options that support your opinion, one side of the argument.

As someone with a PK, a Nobushi and a Warden, all at a decent Rep level, I couldn't care less that the Warden doesn't have bleed and the other two do. Each character has strengths and weaknesses. My PK can't turtle behind a shield like Warlord and Conqueror ... there are pros and cons to everything.

Gotta disagree with you here, Gray. I don't have a problem with bleeds, so long as a innate defensive amount is added to heavies and supposedly hardier classes (which may already be the case and I just don't know about it.) I've experienced PK's that turtle just as much as the conquerors and do it very well. Saying that they need it as a crutch is a bit of hyperbole.

Gray360UK
04-24-2017, 04:38 PM
Why do you look at it as if it is in place of the instant damage? Most often it is a guarantee'd follow up to a confirmed hit.



Gotta disagree with you here, Gray. I don't have a problem with bleeds, so long as a innate defensive amount is added to heavies and supposedly hardier classes (which may already be the case and I just don't know about it.) I've experienced PK's that turtle just as much as the conquerors and do it very well. Saying that they need it as a crutch is a bit of hyperbole.

It is the case as far as I know, they have greater base max health and tankier feats.

I'm not sure where you get the crutch part from, I'm not saying they need to rely on it or can't do anything without it (I can kill people all day long without using bleed on my PK, for example).

All I'm saying, is the unique ability of the bleed classes bothers me no more than the uniques abilities of all the other classes. Character variety is important. My Rogue in Warcraft could stealth, my Mage could not, but my Rogue could not hit you with a fireball from across the map.

I'm well aware there is always a chunk of any playerbase that doesn't like it when another class has something they don't, but to me that is no problem as long as all classes remain competitive. I don't believe bleed is the reason that the Nobushi and the PK win fights, and even if I did, I would be fine with that, as long as all the other classes have something they can do that lets them win fights too.

Aarpian
04-24-2017, 05:00 PM
Why do you look at it as if it is in place of the instant damage? Most often it is a guarantee'd follow up to a confirmed hit.



Gotta disagree with you here, Gray. I don't have a problem with bleeds, so long as a innate defensive amount is added to heavies and supposedly hardier classes (which may already be the case and I just don't know about it.) I've experienced PK's that turtle just as much as the conquerors and do it very well. Saying that they need it as a crutch is a bit of hyperbole.

Then don't complain about bleeds, complain about how much damage those attacks do.

RunnerRunner22
04-24-2017, 06:01 PM
I don't get it. Would you prefer a higher base damage of Nobushi's or Peacekeeper's attacks instead? With bleeds, you at least get the opportunity to kill your opponent before the bleed kills you, to pop revenge or to use a feat.

Herbstlicht
04-24-2017, 06:45 PM
Would love direct damage over bleed as a Nobushi.
With the predictable bleed attacks (always top, or after 2 lights) it would be much more deadly to just hit a ton.

With the turtle freaks out there its hard to score 2 lights (slow guard switch), and smart people can predict the top stabs when they see you back-paddle dash forwards.

For the 10 hits i try i might hit 2 against an avarage player.
And those two arent always the bleed attacks.

Hm, though it would take away some variety, i guess it would in fact strengthen her. But i would like to see buffs on different aspects - like guard switch speed, potential faster attacks out of hidden stance or an overall fix for the defensive meta.

Btw, is your ava self drawn?

Knight_Gregor
04-24-2017, 06:46 PM
It is the case as far as I know, they have greater base max health and tankier feats.

I'm not sure where you get the crutch part from, I'm not saying they need to rely on it or can't do anything without it (I can kill people all day long without using bleed on my PK, for example).

All I'm saying, is the unique ability of the bleed classes bothers me no more than the uniques abilities of all the other classes. Character variety is important. My Rogue in Warcraft could stealth, my Mage could not, but my Rogue could not hit you with a fireball from across the map.

I'm well aware there is always a chunk of any playerbase that doesn't like it when another class has something they don't, but to me that is no problem as long as all classes remain competitive. I don't believe bleed is the reason that the Nobushi and the PK win fights, and even if I did, I would be fine with that, as long as all the other classes have something they can do that lets them win fights too.

Forgive me for my previous post appearing so curt. And I didn't mean to imply you of anything heinous.

I 100% agree that there should be options and differences for classes and abilities. The problem is that regardless of class diversity, aside from quick attacks taking advantage of P2P "Simulation," hysteresis and 50/50s, the play-style for most classes remains the same. Whether you can win a match without bleed is irrelevant if it's simply stacked onto punishing players for attacking. I'm not insinuating that you do this. I'm just saying that there is no more incentive for a Peacekeeper or Nobushi to throw out attacks than a conqueror or the other turtles (Other than the aforementioned network problems). And I'd much rather eat a shield bash and light or a heavy after a guard break. That's, of course, if we're pretending the Shugoki doesn't exist.

Knight_Gregor
04-24-2017, 06:50 PM
Then don't complain about bleeds, complain about how much damage those attacks do.

I suppose it wouldn't matter if the attacks were modified to compensate for the bleeds or vice-versa. I don't see how complaining about either, really, makes a difference.

Elzziwelzzif
04-24-2017, 09:38 PM
Hm, though it would take away some variety, i guess it would in fact strengthen her. But i would like to see buffs on different aspects - like guard switch speed, potential faster attacks out of hidden stance or an overall fix for the defensive meta.

Btw, is your ava self drawn?
Only thing i would really love to see is some kick improvements.
Being able to do a front-dash followed by a "guardbreak" (kick) or when your sprinting and press guardbreak (run-jump-kick).
Currently the start-up is predictable or tedious, as most would use a kick to open up the enemy, but you need to land a hit to initiate a kick (or hidden stance).

Bleed is fun. I have no problems with it (nor with the current Nobushi damage). Unless you have the bleed buff it doesn't hurt that much (besides an attack focused peacekeeper's tripple stab, but then again that is a move on its own).
A single stab (peacekeeper or Nobushi, cant remember i've ever been hit by a Valk bleed) doesn't scare anyone.
A damage focused, bleed buffed, bleed attack spammer does give you a something to worry about.
But i've killed people faster with 2 charged heavies on a level 1 Shugo, than in my max attack Nuboshi with bleed.

As for your question; yes, its self drawn, though i used an excisting character as reference.

CandleInTheDark
04-24-2017, 11:01 PM
I use bleed quite heavily, though I am lowest attack and I prefer crossbow to sharpen blades so I wouldn't call myself a bleed spammer in terms of 4v4. There is a cap, which along with the damage over time, balances it, my main aim is to keep bleed ticking over and as close to the cap as possible which pressures turtles to attack if I manage to get a few past their defences at once.

Helnekromancer
04-25-2017, 03:49 AM
Hello, Nobushi main, funny how no one mentions how the Valk can get a guaranteed bleed that can lead into a combo, if she times her deflect right which is basically pressing dash instead of heavy attack, but none of them use it because "its too hard" since they are getting by just fine by spamming sweep combos. If Nobushi and PK had easy guaranteed dmg combos they wouldn't need to rely on bleeds as much but since its apart of their character and not a feature, PK and Nobushi have to rely on it more to swings fights in their favor because take away that and what you have lefted is pure glass cannons who die incredibly easy because their moveset is "fair and balanced".

Frappenstain
04-25-2017, 07:40 AM
Berserker has the bleed buff, don't know other classes. Nobushi and PK's DoT's are not that effective or the ones i fight use gear which don't improve Dot's. I have big debuff resistance item, mybe it helps. Also all of the classes has their own flavour. Remove bleed and poison from them, remove stuns from heavies, remove full block.... List goes on. Those are makes this classes special. I'm against to remove class mechanics like that. It makes the game bland.

Draghmar
04-25-2017, 08:01 AM
Hello, Nobushi main, funny how no one mentions how the Valk can get a guaranteed bleed that can lead into a combo....
I do that each time someone mentions bleeding classes. ;) People don't remember/know about that because most Valkyrie players just spam Heavy+SB+Swwep.