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View Full Version : Make Revenge Great Again! (and fix broken reviving)



Chucky_Jones
04-23-2017, 06:22 PM
First off I agree that revenge was peviously broken and needed a nerf, but now it is near useless for classes that don't have a easy nock down ability like a bash or headbutt. I think that to make it useful the only change it would need would be for people who were killed by someone in revenge mode to be unrevivable. That alone would make revenge extremely worthwhile but still make it take skill to Beat the gankers because you would still have to beat 3-4 people, you just wouldn't need to kill them each 3 times. The revive system is currently broken as it allows anyone who wasn't executed or killed by the environment to be revived fairly quickly at full health an unlimited amount of times. It is dangerous to execute in a 1v3-4 situation, and unless you have revenge, you most likely won't finish the execute. If you do have revenge, you will still take significant damage. There are probably other ways to fix broken reviving such as revived players on on 1 bar of health, or players can only be revived once, but the way I suggested would fix reviving and make revenge worthwhile.

CandleInTheDark
04-23-2017, 06:46 PM
I think it is a decent idea at possibly the wrong time. Right now there are people who will settle for nothing less than the nerf being rolled back entirely and given it made people leave and it enabled BS like 10 second revenge eight times in the space of two minutes and the fact it was easier to fight three people than one in a team game, there is push back from people who don't want to see anything close to that ever again so right now it's not so much a matter of pleasing some of the people, it's a matter of pleasing anyone at all.

Part of me thinks that yes there needs to be something because 1v4 in elimination when they are all there is next to impossible, on the other hand they got there through beating three of your allies, my preference at the moment would be something like revive taking longer or not being possible if the area the body is in is being contested sort of like a mini zone where realistically in the heat of combat around you it is difficult to concentrate/not get stepped on.

kweassa1917
04-23-2017, 07:03 PM
...but now it is near useless for classes that don't have a easy nock down ability like a bash or headbutt.

This is actually a different problem. Namely, the "spammable unblockables(UB)" -- which begs a different discussion.

Aside from that, revenge is plenty useful -- if you know how to use it. If I'd give a basic tip, revenge before 1.05 embedded a really, really nasty habit with most players in the form of heavy/ZA mashing and flat-footedness. It provided really high amount of defense + temp health shield that it didn't matter if you were being bombarded by hits. So waiting for the opponents to come to you and then basically spamming attacks while going with your feet planted to the ground still yielded results. It also warped people's perception of reality and made people think that they could always take on multiple enemies and still win.

After 1.05, revenge doesn't mean god-mode, so even when you fire it up it is really, really important to keep moving and positioning yourself, and maintaining that defense. When we first played FH we all experienced how important defense is. Versions upto 1.04 made you forget that. After 1.05, you have to remember that even when revenge is up, defense is still the highest priority.

Also, looking for an opportunity to run away isn't bad at all. It's not a waste to use revenge as a temp shield to find opportunity to run. Many people still forget there's always the option to live to fight another day.



I think that to make it useful the only change it would need would be for people who were killed by someone in revenge mode to be unrevivable. That alone would make revenge extremely worthwhile but still make it take skill to Beat the gankers because you would still have to beat 3-4 people, you just wouldn't need to kill them each 3 times.

Dunno. I think that should be tied in with the game mode, not with revenge itself. There are always executions to stop revival, and smart enemies preventing yourself is also a valid tactic. Why should we penalize that? I don't see any reason to.



The revive system is currently broken as it allows anyone who wasn't executed or killed by the environment to be revived fairly quickly at full health an unlimited amount of times. It is dangerous to execute in a 1v3-4 situation, and unless you have revenge, you most likely won't finish the execute. If you do have revenge, you will still take significant damage. There are probably other ways to fix broken reviving such as revived players on on 1 bar of health, or players can only be revived once, but the way I suggested would fix reviving and make revenge worthwhile.

This deserves some thought. I've seen some players in dedicated "support builds" (or, FH's equivalent of MMOG 'support builds') with full investment into revive stat running around like medics. Sometimes the revive speed does seem too fast... but then again, I don't think it's that popular or majority in the game to support a nerf for it, nor do I feel comfortable about suppressing variety rather than promote it. I also don't think unboosted base revival speeds are too fast.

I do see the point, though. Even if you skillfully dispatch one of the attackers and make a 1v3 into a 1v2, one of the attackers can drop back to try and revive him -- which you can't risk stopping him.... making it back into 1v3.

Perhaps a compromise could be taken, as in increased revival time when killed by revenge mode opponents, adding a set hard-wired extra time to revival which isn't effected by revival speed stat. For example, something like, if someone with a full revival stat can raise the dead in 2 seconds, if someone was killed by revenge it would add in a solid +5 seconds on top of the 2 seconds?

Also, the "at full HP when raised from the dead" also is a good point.

In general, these points you make IMO is hardly relevant with revenge, but as an critique of an independent game mechanic it has merits and makes sense.


There are many games which offer some amount of penalty when you were revived by friendlies. In this case I'd say there's no reason why FH cannot adopt such a thing.

A timed debuff seems to be in order. As in, when you are revived, you get a "recently revived" sort of debuff -- which revives you at 25% of your max HP.... and then over the course of. next.. I dunno..
maybe 20 seconds...? ...your health regenerates to full?


I'll tell you what. Aside from the revenge stuff you've mentioned, which I don't think makes much sense, I think the "problems with revival" part you mentioned do have merit and I think it'd be wise if you suggested that part separately in the suggestions forums.

HarambeVendetta
04-23-2017, 07:57 PM
Leave revenge the way it is now.