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mike_espo
04-26-2004, 01:27 PM
I created a mission for the CR.42. Round trip: 530km. Used the Lenningrad/Finnish gulf map, No combat as I did not encounter any enemy fighters. Routine escort. Started with 100% fuel. 4000m alt. Flew at 80% mix and prop pitch 75% throttle about 65%. Stated maximum range of the CR.42 as given by the Aircraft section in the main menu is 781km. Other sources state max at 1000km. Anyway, I barely made it back to base. My 3 AI wingmen had to ditch about 20km short of the base!!??? The only reason I made it back was I fiddled with mixture going as low as 40%. I had fumes left when I landed.

What gives????

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

[This message was edited by mike_espo on Mon April 26 2004 at 12:39 PM.]

[This message was edited by mike_espo on Mon April 26 2004 at 12:57 PM.]

mike_espo
04-26-2004, 01:27 PM
I created a mission for the CR.42. Round trip: 530km. Used the Lenningrad/Finnish gulf map, No combat as I did not encounter any enemy fighters. Routine escort. Started with 100% fuel. 4000m alt. Flew at 80% mix and prop pitch 75% throttle about 65%. Stated maximum range of the CR.42 as given by the Aircraft section in the main menu is 781km. Other sources state max at 1000km. Anyway, I barely made it back to base. My 3 AI wingmen had to ditch about 20km short of the base!!??? The only reason I made it back was I fiddled with mixture going as low as 40%. I had fumes left when I landed.

What gives????

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

[This message was edited by mike_espo on Mon April 26 2004 at 12:39 PM.]

[This message was edited by mike_espo on Mon April 26 2004 at 12:57 PM.]

p1ngu666
04-26-2004, 05:27 PM
max range achived on full lean? 20%?

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mike_espo
04-26-2004, 05:47 PM
I tried. But at 20%, at 1000m engine sputters

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
04-26-2004, 06:49 PM
Hey have ya'll seen this...?

pic ---> http://www.il2skins.com/cgi/displayscreenshot.cgi?action=displayscreenshot&id=9553

link ---> http://www.il2skins.com/?action=display&skinid=9553

Don't know if its hystericaly correct but its pretty

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"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

pdog1
04-26-2004, 10:32 PM
yes it is correct, italy used some me110 for nightfighters but with no ground radar network as in germany they were of little use.

xanty
04-27-2004, 01:42 AM
Hi:

Is this a rare case, or does it happen to many other planes? For what I heard, fuel comsumption is not very accurate in the game...

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BH-21
04-27-2004, 07:29 AM
Well most of the trouble stems from the pilot. You have to remember the altitude in this game is given in meters. 4000m is still quite low, its under 16000ft(4877m). To get real long distances out of your aircraft your going to have to go high, with low mixtures and medium to low throttles with little external drag, also weight is important, a fully loaded aircraft including gun ammo will not get the max range due to those figures being generated by a clean aircraft (empty). This part is modeled rather nicely in my opinion. Operational range was always shorter then the stats given.

mike_espo
04-27-2004, 07:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BH-21:
Well most of the trouble stems from the pilot. You have to remember the altitude in this game is given in meters. 4000m is still quite low, its under 16000ft(4877m). To get real long distances out of your aircraft your going to have to go high, with low mixtures and medium to low throttles with little external drag, also weight is important, a fully loaded aircraft including gun ammo will not get the max range due to those figures being generated by a clean aircraft (empty). This part is modeled rather nicely in my opinion. Operational range was always shorter then the stats given.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are wrong. I flew at 4000m which is the optimum altitude for the CR.42. Also, the stated range is 780km. Typical range is 780km. That is COMBAT radius, including fighting. Max range is 1000 km. As I said, I did not use 100% throttle at all.

I could not even fly 550km. This is a 30% error. Something is wrong with modelling. But, Im sorry to say, there are alot of problems with Italian fighters in this game....

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

[This message was edited by mike_espo on Tue April 27 2004 at 07:15 AM.]

Red_Storm
04-27-2004, 08:56 AM
Like? I'm sorry to say, but it's common knowledge Italy didn't field the best of equipment during the 2nd WW.

---
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Dmitri9mm
04-27-2004, 09:30 AM
Come on we all know mike_espo is right!
Fuel consumption has always been faulty in IL2 and though it has bettered with almost every patch it's still not accurate.
IMHO this has never been a big problem, because the size of the maps and usually short distances to the target prevents running out of fuel in most cases.
With the new and bigger maps, this has become an issue, and I trust that the dev. team will put some work into correcting it.

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mike_espo
04-27-2004, 10:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Red_Storm:
Like? I'm sorry to say, but it's common knowledge Italy didn't field the best of equipment during the 2nd WW.

---
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/RedStorm-sig.JPG <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What does that have to do with anything?????? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/351.gif

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

xanty
04-27-2004, 12:02 PM
Hi all:

Well, maybe Italy didn't do the best planes in WW2, but it sure did a good job on them! On the late 30s, many countries bought italy's planes, which must mean something. Brits, US and Japan had their issues with their early models too, and many countried din't even have an aircraft industry, so I think Italy did quite well. They had great biplanes (Cr.32/42) and some good early monoplanes. The MC200 and Fiat G50 were a bit under-powered, but once they had a proper engine (german DB), their planes were doing quite well...

I think there is no reason and need for that tag "italy was **** on WW2"...no?

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BH-21
04-27-2004, 03:24 PM
Mike Espo has a good point. I got to fooling around with the CR.42 today. I don't know about his refernces but it does seem someone made the classic error on converting the CR.42s speed. All the references I consulted list the max level flight speed at around 450 kph (280mph) @ 5000m (16405ft). In game you just can't do it, you come up around 280 kph. Ranges is also listed at 775km (482miles) in those references i mentioned.

mike_espo
04-27-2004, 08:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BH-21:
Mike Espo has a good point. I got to fooling around with the CR.42 today. I don't know about his refernces but it does seem someone made the classic error on converting the CR.42s speed. All the references I consulted list the max level flight speed at around 450 kph (280mph) @ 5000m (16405ft). In game you just can't do it, you come up around 280 kph. Ranges is also listed at 775km (482miles) in those references i mentioned.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You might not be converting to true airspeed. If you fly with cockpit on, you get indicated airspeed. True airspeed is what you will see if you fly with cockpit off. The CR.42 speeds are quite realistic. Try it. at 5000m you have a 2% error for every 300m so you have a 34% error between true and indicated airspeeds. Should be about 380km/hr. Gotta admit, never saw 450km/hr as top speed. Thought is was 430km/hr. As for the range, I am going to try a few more tests tommorrow. But I suspect it is inaccurate.

Here are a few of my sources;
http://www.comandosupremo.com/Cr42.html
http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/ww2htmls/fiatcr42.html Remember to refer to the metric system here.

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

[This message was edited by mike_espo on Tue April 27 2004 at 08:17 PM.]

pdog1
04-28-2004, 12:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Red_Storm:
Like? I'm sorry to say, but it's common knowledge Italy didn't field the best of equipment during the 2nd WW.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL yes common knowledge for such ignorants as your self lol... please, see how you quickly reverse your opinion if macchi 205 and fiat g55 ever become flyable...lamer

Tully__
04-28-2004, 04:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pdog1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Red_Storm:
Like? I'm sorry to say, but it's common knowledge Italy didn't field the best of equipment during the 2nd WW.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL yes common knowledge for such ignorants as your self lol... please, see how you quickly reverse your opinion if macchi 205 and fiat g55 ever become flyable...lamer<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

pdog1, private topic (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=25510001&m=323101083&r=323101083#323101083) for you.

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Dmitri9mm
04-29-2004, 10:28 AM
Uh oh! You're in trouble mate! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

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pdog1
04-29-2004, 12:37 PM
trouble is my middle name
but not as much trouble oleg will be in if he doesn't fix italian planes, ahah mafia blocks? haha

mike_espo
05-06-2004, 10:58 AM
bump. This is an important consideration when making historical missions.

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
05-06-2004, 01:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This is an important consideration when making historical missions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Even "big" FB maps are too small, fuel makes no difference. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

mike_espo
05-06-2004, 02:03 PM
On the Lenningrad map I simulated the missions the 161a gruppo CR.42s flew from Rhodes to Crete to escort stukas when crete was being invaded. The trip is roughly 260km each way. Easy for this map. But alas, even this is inaccurate! Just barely made it back and my wingmen had to ditch http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif The falco should have a range of 780km http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
05-06-2004, 02:18 PM
Yes, the Finland map is the one (1) exception http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif but even this only offers challenge to short range fighters. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

pdog1
05-06-2004, 03:36 PM
wait for the reggianes to be flyable, then you can fly across finland and back and still have fuel to drop gasoline on a leningrad suberb.