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View Full Version : Why is the dev team's balancing approach so inconsistent?



SerrowvonHerow
04-22-2017, 01:23 AM
So, most people from the beta will recall that Valkyrie was drastically overnerfed and had to be brought back up. The developers have cited this as their reasoning behind moving slowly on nerfing other characters like the Peacekeeper. This makes sense, good rational, I like it.

We come to the upcoming patch and see that they're sticking to this more nuanced approach, trying out small tweaks to bring her into line without killing her. Neat! Small buff to Lawbringer to try to elevate him out of mid-tier, awesome.

Why did that all go out the window with Warden? The nerfs are pretty much a wish list for anyone who doesn't want to even see a Shoulder Bash performed ever again. On the competitive reddit, many seem to believe these changes will knock him down several tiers, and certainly remove him from any kind of serious tournament play. No nuance, no finesse, just completely destroyed the ability at higher levels while preserving its noob stomping potential.

Same thing with Shoguki really. Oni charge spam was absolutely infuriating to be on the receiving end of and stupid to watch. But they just removed it from his arsenal entirely without giving him anything else.

For the record, I do agree that the vortex needed to be reigned in somehow. I even agree with some of the changes that were made. But they've now made it so initiating the vortex is inherently unsafe and easily punished. That might be healthy in a game where defense isn't the way to play - but as it stands, Wardens now get to sit and stare at their opponent and wait for a parry like everyone else. Meanwhile, competitive play is boiled down to consisting only of Warlords and Peackeepers, with maybe the occasional Lawbringer if their buff is as crazy as everyone seems to think it will be.

CoyoteXStarrk
04-22-2017, 01:31 AM
Usually buffs and nerfs correlate to the severity of the problem.


The Valkyrie was SEVERELY under-powered so they gave her massive buffs to compensate.


The Lawbringer was just too average when compared to other option within his own class of Hybrids and to other heroes overall so the buffs to him were comparatively smaller and more subtle.


The Warden's shoulder bash is a BIG issue in the game and therefore it got a BIG nerf.



The shoulderbash as it stands right before the nerf is SO overpowered in a risk reward sense. There is very little risk to the Warden and FAR too much reward. Then to add onto that the ability to cancel into a GB or spam it against someone to where they have literally no options but to just take it is just ridiculous. The fact that they waited this long to fix it tell me that they were either not sure how to balance it or it simply was not as high on the list of priorities as some other issues in the game.


But it was needed that is for sure.

CandleInTheDark
04-22-2017, 01:31 AM
I have two questions,and I am not being argumentative, since I appreciate the sentiment being a peacekeeper main who was one of those making noise over what I felt was overpowered in her, that being the light spam, without wrecking her all together (and being perhaps more fortunate in that I am ok with what they have done, I see her as a counter attacker not a stand and trader and these nerfs help facilitate that).

How would you have done it? Would you have had one of the nerfs, something else all together?

Do you think that if they deal with the defensive meta as they intend to in a future patch that this will mitigate some of what the nerfs have done to him?

cragar212
04-22-2017, 01:46 AM
Meh its just people over reacting.

Warlords freaked out when headbutt got nerfed also.

Warden definitely isn't broken and even Iskys who really has only ecer played warden in tournies thinks it will be fine. The sky is falling crowd will never change.

Bob__Gnarly
04-22-2017, 01:52 AM
It needed to be punishable, good tweak. Now you can't just vortex FTW.

cragar212
04-22-2017, 01:59 AM
Also you called the LB change a small buff...

Guaranteed they have just created the games newest cancer. Giving him a guaranteed shove into a 50/50 anytime he blocks something is crazy. Rewarding blocking is a very bad idea. Why bother to attack or parry?

SerrowvonHerow
04-22-2017, 02:07 AM
I have two questions,and I am not being argumentative, since I appreciate the sentiment being a peacekeeper main who was one of those making noise over what I felt was overpowered in her, that being the light spam, without wrecking her all together (and being perhaps more fortunate in that I am ok with what they have done, I see her as a counter attacker not a stand and trader and these nerfs help facilitate that).

How would you have done it? Would you have had one of the nerfs, something else all together?

Do you think that if they deal with the defensive meta as they intend to in a future patch that this will mitigate some of what the nerfs have done to him?

I certainly think them dismantling the defensive meta will open up the game in general to skillful play. Right now Peacekeeper is dominant because of her ability to get through defense in spite of this meta and Warlord feels like he's built to thrive in it. If the meta is transformed, I could easily see characters like Kensei, Orochi and others becoming way more viable and it's not hard to think Warden would benefit from this as well.

As far as my personal take on what should've been changed, I'd have kept this from the official notes.

Shoulder Bash cancel timing into Guard Break reduced to 300ms before end of startup (from 100ms before end of startup).
Uninterruptible Stance timing on fully-charged Shoulder Bash startup reduced by 100ms in order to match the revised Guard Break cancel timing.

And then increased the stamina cost, both for performing the bash and for feinting it. I think making it so it's a free GB on miss and making it so you can no longer cancel to bait out attacks was quite frankly too much. They kept the spamminess so inexperienced players will still die in it and you'll still get frustrated if you get caught up in a constant vortex, but made it laughably easy to punish at higher levels.

sgtpickles
04-22-2017, 02:16 AM
It would benefit their marketing to keep Warden decent.

D4rkgrizzly
04-22-2017, 02:16 AM
We are missing one piece to this puzzle and that is how they are going to fix the defensive meta.........maybe it will all make sense several weeks from now?

SerrowvonHerow
04-22-2017, 06:49 AM
We are missing one piece to this puzzle and that is how they are going to fix the defensive meta.........maybe it will all make sense several weeks from now?

Possibly, but obviously we as the players aren't privy to this information. It's worrying to feel like the developers are willing to nerf your chosen main into the dirt at a moment's notice, but will take their sweet time and only implement incremental nerfs for other characters.

kweassa1917
04-22-2017, 10:51 AM
I'm not about to comment on something I haven't seen in action.