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View Full Version : Is Conqueror balanced?



Nebus5050
04-20-2017, 06:44 PM
Conqueror


Light Attacks


is slow
does low damage
is easy to parry + gets more punished than heavys


Heavy Attacks


is very slow
does medium damage
has Start-Up superior block frames


Charged Heavy


is faster, but predictable
does good damage
can't be chained into
while charging GB counter impossible


Zone - Attack


has knockback
only useful against minions


Shield Bash (in general)


is unsafe to use
has good knockback
gives a safe light
sometimes a safe heavy


General Guard


has superior block
gives a safe GB, if you block a heavy


Full Guard


is the only way to faint a heavy
has no superior block
has block on every guard side
has no follow-Ups (except Shield Bash)
you have no stamina recovery during and 5 sec after Full Guard






If you spot any mistake, thats because english is not my mother tongue.
If you disagree with me, please write your critique in a reasonble manner.

thx for reading!

Stichller
04-20-2017, 07:24 PM
Short answer. No

Charanis
04-20-2017, 11:08 PM
Heavy attack does not do medium damage. It deals the lowest damage in the game (unless charged) That's 25 damage on a heavy. Compare that to a ultra fast Kensei LIGHT for 20 damage. yeah...
To think that Conq has "heavy hitter" tag - gets me every time.

What he need is most certainly a rework. A variety of tools and a new mixup combination. Also being able to counter GB on charged Heavy and Charged HEavy should also be unblockable because people simply step away when they see you chargin it anyway. I really don't see a reason to charge a heavy other than during gank situations on non suspecting enemy,

kabal_ua
04-21-2017, 12:11 AM
lul, u said that hes Attack - slow, hes Attack - low damage, Buy w8, he got super strong turtle DEFENCE ?! Hm... :confused:
Or u whant him to have turtle defence+shield bash that just pawned everyone, even in revange mode... and u whant him to have + to all strong and fast attacks ? WUT ?!:eek:

nyrue
04-21-2017, 01:24 AM
the reason his heavy connects after shield bash usually has to do with the fact that it resets your opponents block and your opponent probably doesn't realize this, but I have been crying for a rework for this character since the closed beta. first off he needs to be able to Guard Break Interrupt while charging his heavy attack. this change would make a world of difference this move is easy to parry and drains stamina to hold it needs this, second off while I think his (and all) bash move(s) should be punishable his could be rewarding considering how easy it is too dodge, which is why I suggest in place of a damage increase on his heavy attacks (your right he is not a heavy hitter) he should get a free Heavy attack off his shield bash,

AnErrantKnight
04-21-2017, 01:30 AM
You forgot his aoe;)

nyrue
04-21-2017, 01:36 AM
they could extend the range of his zone attack I wouldn't be opposed to that

AnErrantKnight
04-21-2017, 01:46 AM
lul, u said that hes Attack - slow, hes Attack - low damage, Buy w8, he got super strong turtle DEFENCE ?! Hm... :confused:
Or u whant him to have turtle defence+shield bash that just pawned everyone, even in revange mode... and u whant him to have + to all strong and fast attacks ? WUT ?!:eek:

um yeah kind of? i mean as a conq i know he has a solid defense, and i think that should stay; i mean he has a shield soooo. But he also has only two good moves and they are spammy as **** and he has no other good ways of getting a kill unless he uses them... it's sad, I know. But i dont want my hero to get any faster than he is, as we all saw what happened to valk when that happened, jeeze talk about good reflexes. So I think that Conq should get a bit of a damage boost, and a faster aoe attack (because it is meant to hit any enemy that gets near but WAIT,hint: it dosent... at all ). And yeah i would enjoy another option out of his full block, like a heavy where he just whaps someone with the butt of his flail. that would be cool and could be give him a stun.:p

Nebus5050
04-21-2017, 07:12 PM
lul, u said that hes Attack - slow, hes Attack - low damage, Buy w8, he got super strong turtle DEFENCE ?! Hm... :confused:
Or u whant him to have turtle defence+shield bash that just pawned everyone, even in revange mode... and u whant him to have + to all strong and fast attacks ? WUT ?!:eek:

I never said his attacks should be strong and fast! I think conq shouldn't be OP! I want him to be useful in high skill play.(Thats where everyone turtles or lightspam)

Stichller
04-21-2017, 07:45 PM
I never said his attacks should be strong and fast! I think conq shouldn't be OP! I want him to be useful in high skill play.(Thats where everyone turtles or lightspam)

Totally agree.
Useful in high skill play. That's the point.
Atm he is just a turtle. A very strong turtle.
Maybe to strong.
But also he has no weapons to be aggressiv.
Maybe to weak.

Nebus5050
04-21-2017, 07:52 PM
Totally agree.
Useful in high skill play. That's the point.
Atm he is just a turtle. A very strong turtle.
Maybe to strong.
But also he has no weapons to be aggressiv.
Maybe to weak.

If the match starts lagging conq is total trash

AnErrantKnight
05-11-2017, 04:35 AM
I never said his attacks should be strong and fast! I think conq shouldn't be OP! I want him to be useful in high skill play.(Thats where everyone turtles or lightspam)

Yeah but why use conq when Warlord has the same defense and a much bigger tool set?

kweassa1917
05-11-2017, 05:16 AM
Conqueror


Light Attacks


is slow
does low damage
is easy to parry + gets more punished than heavys


Heavy Attacks


is very slow
does medium damage
has Start-Up superior block frames


Charged Heavy


is faster, but predictable
does good damage
can't be chained into
while charging GB counter impossible


Zone - Attack


has knockback
only useful against minions


Shield Bash (in general)


is unsafe to use
has good knockback
gives a safe light
sometimes a safe heavy


General Guard


has superior block
gives a safe GB, if you block a heavy


Full Guard


is the only way to faint a heavy
has no superior block
has block on every guard side
has no follow-Ups (except Shield Bash)
you have no stamina recovery during and 5 sec after Full Guard






If you spot any mistake, thats because english is not my mother tongue.
If you disagree with me, please write your critique in a reasonble manner.

thx for reading!

I don't want to sound like a tool, but how much of those "problems" you are writing down is based on factual data, instead of one's "feelings" and "anecdotes"?



Light Attacks
- is slow
- does low damage
- is easy to parry + gets more punished than heavys

- 7 classes are on average faster lights than the Conq, which 4 of them are clearly faster (the 3 assassins and Nobushi), other 3 similar
- 4 classes are slower than the Conq, and among them 2 are clearly slower (Kensei, Raider)



Heavy Attacks
- is very slow
- does medium damage
- has Start-Up superior block frames

Conqueror side-heavies are 30fps. It's as fast as the Warden ZA, and even faster than most lights other classes have..


So how is anyone going to talk about "balance" when all the base information is wrong? You guys aren't talking about balance. You guys are talking about an imaginary fix based on a warped, biased fantasy of the Conq in which he is somehow screwed by the system and wrongly repressed.

ChampionRuby50g
05-11-2017, 04:08 PM
Well today, a Conq got revenge against me, and just spammed the shield bash and heavy, and I don't know if my timing was just off but by the time I stood back up after getting knocked down every time due to revenge I would not have enough time to dodge and end up back on my ***... he took my full defence build Lawbringer down in 4 hits from revenge shield bash spam... please tell me if my timing was just bad, but I don't think it was because I have enough experience at this game with a 25 player rep. I agree that Conq needs a few changes to make him more viable, but that shield bash with revenge is crazy.