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FI.Snaphoo
09-14-2004, 11:01 PM
And why I'm beginning not to like them...

I'm new... I've been having a grand time on various servers... And most of the people I've met have been fairly helpful. But this is my gripe. I'm so completely sick of people who consistantly and constantly complain about a game that they continue to play. It's all I seem to hear on some of the comms. You don't like it? Fine, stop playing. Can't stand the Flight Model? Stop playing the game. Don't agree with the Damage Model? Stop playing the game. Some planes too "uber" for you? Stop playing the bloody game. Or make a better one and deal with the gripes and complaints of an ungrateful community.

Or at least stop complaining about it on the comms that the server has set up for team communication. I personally don't want to hear it. And the only way that I'm going to be able to communicate effectively with my "team", that I've found, is on those comms that you're clogging up with conversations on why this plane or that plane is so much better than this other plane over here. Or clogging the airwaves with why you think "Oleg's stuff is ****." I don't want to hear it. I would love to think that I'm not the only one out there who just wants to play the game/sim (gamulator?), but I'm beginning to wonder.

"Vulching" (sic) has got to be one of the most frustrating tactics for a new guy. Plain and simple. I know that there is nothing I can do about it. I also know that it's an effective tactic. But it doesn't make it any less frustrating for someone who is just beginning to take off with any sense of regularity. I spent three lives on Warclouds last night just trying to get off the ground. I never did. Server was full so I couldn't get back on after the obligatory death kick. But that's part of the game right?

Eh, whatever. I'm done venting. Just frustrations of a new guy, in a game that I seem to constantly be behind the curve.

As I stated before, the majority of people that I've met on here and in the game seem to be ok people. I understand a little bit of complaint on a game. Because there is no perfect game and there is always something that you don't like about any given game. But every time I log into just about any comms servers there are at least two "experts" that are conversing about the "many flaws" in the game. Most of them you can tell have never flown a day in their lives, much less flown the planes in question, and are purely going on anecdotal information.

I'm no expert. I've never flown a plane in my life. This game is, to me, the best game/sim that I've ever had the pleasure to play. It is bothersome to me that people would pay money to complain about something. Or feel that they have the right to complain just because they laid down the 20-30 bucks to play a game.

/rant off.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

FI.Snaphoo
09-14-2004, 11:01 PM
And why I'm beginning not to like them...

I'm new... I've been having a grand time on various servers... And most of the people I've met have been fairly helpful. But this is my gripe. I'm so completely sick of people who consistantly and constantly complain about a game that they continue to play. It's all I seem to hear on some of the comms. You don't like it? Fine, stop playing. Can't stand the Flight Model? Stop playing the game. Don't agree with the Damage Model? Stop playing the game. Some planes too "uber" for you? Stop playing the bloody game. Or make a better one and deal with the gripes and complaints of an ungrateful community.

Or at least stop complaining about it on the comms that the server has set up for team communication. I personally don't want to hear it. And the only way that I'm going to be able to communicate effectively with my "team", that I've found, is on those comms that you're clogging up with conversations on why this plane or that plane is so much better than this other plane over here. Or clogging the airwaves with why you think "Oleg's stuff is ****." I don't want to hear it. I would love to think that I'm not the only one out there who just wants to play the game/sim (gamulator?), but I'm beginning to wonder.

"Vulching" (sic) has got to be one of the most frustrating tactics for a new guy. Plain and simple. I know that there is nothing I can do about it. I also know that it's an effective tactic. But it doesn't make it any less frustrating for someone who is just beginning to take off with any sense of regularity. I spent three lives on Warclouds last night just trying to get off the ground. I never did. Server was full so I couldn't get back on after the obligatory death kick. But that's part of the game right?

Eh, whatever. I'm done venting. Just frustrations of a new guy, in a game that I seem to constantly be behind the curve.

As I stated before, the majority of people that I've met on here and in the game seem to be ok people. I understand a little bit of complaint on a game. Because there is no perfect game and there is always something that you don't like about any given game. But every time I log into just about any comms servers there are at least two "experts" that are conversing about the "many flaws" in the game. Most of them you can tell have never flown a day in their lives, much less flown the planes in question, and are purely going on anecdotal information.

I'm no expert. I've never flown a plane in my life. This game is, to me, the best game/sim that I've ever had the pleasure to play. It is bothersome to me that people would pay money to complain about something. Or feel that they have the right to complain just because they laid down the 20-30 bucks to play a game.

/rant off.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

WUAF_Badsight
09-14-2004, 11:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FI.Snaphoo:
and are purely going on anecdotal information. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i guess there wasnt any serious testing done with fighter aircraft ever during the fourties http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

FI.Snaphoo
09-14-2004, 11:10 PM
Ok... So maybe I should calm down a bit before posting... just gets annoying to listen to all the freaking time...


Point taken...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

Tooz_69GIAP
09-14-2004, 11:16 PM
Luftwhiners (and there various equivalents): Yes, they annoy the heck out of me. If you don't like it, go away and find something better and bloomin' well stay there!!

Vulching: This is one of my most favourite past times, and also that of a number of my squad mates. Catching maybe 5-6 spawning uberized luft birds on a field with 2 or 3 coordinated and fun-loving IL-2 pilots (me and a couple of squad mates - although we ain't that coordinated, hehe) is just the best thing ever!!!! Get used to it, and learn to disregard "correct" take off procedures.

In most dog servers, gunning the throttle with t/o flaps the very second you spawn and pulling up around 140kph is the only sure-fire way to give you a chance of getting in the air. Although, picking the base with the least pilots, and/or which is furthest from the action also helps reduce the possible appearance of annoying enemy aircraft.

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_tooz.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)
Executive Officer, 69th GIAP
Za Rodinu!
Petition to stop the M3 motorway through the Tara-Skryne Valley in Co. Meath, Ireland (http://www.petitiononline.com/hilltara/petition.html)

WUAF_Badsight
09-14-2004, 11:18 PM
is complaining actually whining if there is an actual problem ?

hmmmm

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

FI.Snaphoo
09-14-2004, 11:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
is complaining actually whining if there is an actual problem ?

hmmmm
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. When there is no "fix" in sight. There is no sense whining about something that cannot, or will not, be changed. Live with it or leave IMLTHO.

And I'm not even talking about "whining" (complaining if you prefer) on the forums... That's fine in my book, and a bit more (though not much) productive. But, whining on comms is just silly and wastes time in my opinion.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

OldMan____
09-15-2004, 05:17 AM
Sp if you don´t like this feature " whining on comms" stop playing the game :P Don´t whine about it :P

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

NorrisMcWhirter
09-15-2004, 05:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
is complaining actually whining if there is an actual problem ?

hmmmm

.


__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Just for one day, I'd love to have the entire situation reversed with respect to bias..where those who previously thought it was the best sim since sliced bread (because it works in their favour) had to put up with those often small but cumulative annoyances that LW fliers contend with.

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

'Bugs? What bugs?'
'AAA steals online kills, crash landing if good landing but out of fuel, muzzle flashes, kill given for planes that have landed OK, AI steals offline kills, gauges not working, Spitfire never overheats, FW190 view, P63 damage model, weird collision modelling...'
'Yeah, but look on the bright side - at least the 0.50s are fixed!'
Moral: $$$ + whining = anything is possible

karost
09-15-2004, 06:38 AM
Hi, FI.Snaphoo

Good luck for me, I not use comm. and I not play at WC server for a long time because my ping is bad and I don't like enemy icon show.

For "Vouching" is simple
1) Switch a new airbase if you have more then one air base
2) "seek and hide" when you "refly" scan area by pov or track IR if you see that bad guys heading back to shoot you wait.. until he come close to his gun range then click "refly" out again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif make him crazy , and if you lucky he fly pass from your 6 to your 12 then you "refly" in and shoot him when he pass your gun sigh.
3) find the way to take off in difficult situation , the good pilots know how to manage risk & challenging in a difficult situation.

Oh you may stop using comm. that is batter way and join more harder DF-SERVER like greater green server or other , that place have a lot of good pilots which like to fly and fun more than "whine".


S!

[This message was edited by karost on Wed September 15 2004 at 05:48 AM.]

repco
09-15-2004, 06:57 AM
Snaphoo, many servers don't allow vulching, but like others have said, you can usually just change bases to limit the problem. Being vulched 3 times and then deathkicked doesn't sound like much fun.

I completely agree with you about people clogging up voice comms with their whinging - not only do you have to listen to their ****, but the channel's rendered useless - duuuh!

Heavy_Weather
09-15-2004, 07:05 AM
hey there Snap, its funny you mentioned vulching. just the other day i was playing my P-39 offline campaign, mission 14 i believe, me and my mates were taking off and before i could even get off the ground the damn computer vulched me and my wingman. i thought, wow, the computer does it too. just goes to show that vulching was a part of war.

"To fly a combat mission is not a trip under the moon. Every attack, every bombing is a dance with death."
- Serafima Amsova-Taranenko: Noggle, Ann (1994): A Dance with Death.

Tvrdi
09-15-2004, 11:09 AM
enought is gunsight dropping to turn u into a f lunatic not only a luftwhiner....so shut the f up

AlexDavies
09-15-2004, 11:15 AM
i agree with snaphoo...it gets annoying, this forum clogged up with 'uber spitfires' is annoying.

http://www.jsutergraphix.com/portfolio%20art/P-47.jpg

NorrisMcWhirter
09-15-2004, 11:24 AM
But not as annoying as the forum clogged up with 'my .50 cals don't work' threads http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

'Bugs? What bugs?'
'AAA steals online kills, crash landing if good landing but out of fuel, muzzle flashes, kill given for planes that have landed OK, AI steals offline kills, gauges not working, Spitfire never overheats, FW190 view, P63 damage model, weird collision modelling...'
'Yeah, but look on the bright side - at least the 0.50s are fixed!'
Moral: $$$ + whining = anything is possible

AlexDavies
09-15-2004, 11:33 AM
or 'all the german gunsights are broken' threads. this is ok most of the time, but there have been at least four metions of that on one page! they should read a few recent posts.

http://www.jsutergraphix.com/portfolio%20art/P-47.jpg

NippleCorn
09-15-2004, 11:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tvrdi:
enought is gunsight dropping to turn u into a f lunatic not only a luftwhiner....so shut the f up<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you actually saying something? Because for the life of me I can't tell what it is.

BBB_Hyperion
09-15-2004, 03:24 PM
Complaining about complainers ?

Last time i looked at my FB Box there stands simulation not arcade game. Means things should be proofable to some degree in the real world. While some
things are very detailed on 1 plane on other plane they completely forgot some bad habbits or even limits. For people who just want to fire away without enjoying the historical details should play swotl or just stay quiet and let other discuss the more deeper problems.

The Online realism suffers much from packet loss. Sometimes you see hits but none of them are counted on the other plane. No reason to complain ? I dont think so. Its not static sim that once its out will not be improved. Problems has been pointed out since the release of original il2 once it was a valid claim it was mostly fixed . Developers are not gods.

That complaining and improvment is the important part of the community.

On vulching i agree however its plain stupid it shows inability to dogfight, bad character , fear etc.

High Ground is not only more agreeable and salubrious, but more convenient from a military point of view; low ground is not only damp and unhealthy, but also disadvantageous for fighting.

Sun Tzu : The Art of War

Regards,
Hyperion

LStarosta
09-15-2004, 04:37 PM
Read my sig and cry me a river. . .


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif


You know something is wrong when 99% of the planes you meet in the sky are Ki's Yak's and La's. . . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Personally, I really don't care, and quite the contrary, I feel sad for these people because they won't try out the large variety of other aircraft that Oleg so kindly and generously provided us with. If someone flies a "newb plane", then they're still a newb, most likely, and they are an easy kill as long as you apply superior tactics and exploit their disadvantages. When you are not engaging airplanes you should constantly be climbing, so that when the time comes to engage, you will be able to dictate the fight and engage and disengage at will, no matter who the opponent is. Don't whine about newb planes.. Be happy that they give you a challenge when you go flying online... After all, it wouldn't be fun having all the new kids constantly stalling and tumbling through the air in their P47's and Fw190's, now would it?

And don't get me started on vulching. It's idiotic NOT to eliminate a potential threat before it becomes a real one. Sure, I hate it when it happens to me or my squad mates, but I find it to be a valid tactic in keeping air superiority... If you're constantly getting vulched, obviously your team isn't using proper tactics of top cover over their main airfield...

Now what really shows bad character is harassing crippled RTB*ng planes and shooting people out of their parachutes. I can't fricken STAND it!

http://home.comcast.net/~l.starosta/sig2.jpg
Spacer nad Berlinem!
Spitfire = Technoblabble(Oleg/"Favors Recieved" from [wo]men)^PI(Magic 8 Ball)(amount of LSD Taken+Booze)(Position of the Earth Relative to the Sun)(Position of the Sun relative to God)^2

"You must factor in the alignment of the planets for the day in which the equation is completed, because the Spit can harness the power of the Earth's rotation and we're working on harnessing the power of ALL rotating and revolving objects in our solar system, later the whole universe, thus boosting the Spit's top speed to r0xx0rz KPH." -Dr. Nathan Roberts

Flying online as (56th)*MRBROWN

[This message was edited by LStarosta on Wed September 15 2004 at 03:46 PM.]

Bearcat99
09-15-2004, 08:06 PM
Vulching Schmulching....... just rearm at the farthest base.. get a fully loaded IL2, P-47 or P-38 and return the favor. Or get in your favorite mount from another base and patrol the base where the vulchers are, try to protect your team mates.. its a no brainer... unless of course there are only 2 bases. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

IMO vulching adds to the challenge of the play.. I could never understand why people keep respawning at the same base and getting vulched OVER AND OVER AND OVER... and then complain about it..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

You'll find sympathy in the dictionary between $hit and syphillis. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

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Sturmovik Essentials (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51910959)
IMMERSION BABY!!

WTE_Galway
09-15-2004, 08:24 PM
depends where you are flying

vulching in a co-op or a scripted server seems perfectly valid to me .. afterall you are trying to win the scenario however you can .. not just accumulate kills

on a dogfight server where the point of the server is a reasonably equal showdown between online pilots vulching (which is childs play a 9 year old can do it)is really just a form of "griefing" and serves no purpose whatsover

VFS-22_SPaRX
09-15-2004, 08:31 PM
If bases are protected by AAA, and your team destroys all the AAA, then by all means you should be attacking that airbase in full force. If the opposing team did not think it was vital to protect their base, then by all means you should be hitting that base again.

S~

SPaRX

karost
09-15-2004, 08:35 PM
come on guys he just a one of a new friends who not know what situation if DF-server look like, he just complain only two thing
- whine
- Vouching

he did not ask for more harder gunfire power or ask for DM stronger , he just don't know how to hand on for this kind of situation he need time and experience to get used for playing with us.

he just a one of our new friends .....
S!

WTE_Galway
09-15-2004, 08:39 PM
one way of stirring up the vulchers is spawn in something tough like an IL2 and then hit refly just as they are coming in to attack you

do it a few times and they will soon run out of ammo http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

FI.Snaphoo
09-15-2004, 10:26 PM
A few points...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Read my sig and cry me a river. . .
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. I was venting. Not complaining. Simply expressing my frustrations as a new player. That is all. You can deal with the rest of it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You know something is wrong when 99% of the planes you meet in the sky are Ki's Yak's and La's.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With a few notable exceptions I haven't flown or flown against these planes. I'm currently trying (unsuccessfully most of the time) to play with my squadmates in the VFW campaign.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And don't get me started on vulching. It's idiotic NOT to eliminate a potential threat before it becomes a real one. Sure, I hate it when it happens to me or my squad mates, but I find it to be a valid tactic in keeping air superiority... If you're constantly getting vulched, obviously your team isn't using proper tactics of top cover over their main airfield...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simple to say. Harder to execute. I don't know anyone on the dogfight servers. And most of the time they're doing their own thing with little regard for team mates, or little regard for me at any rate (perhaps I'm too quiet, in their defence). At least as been my limited experience. So trying to coordinate with someone who isn't really on comms to coordinate (see the beginning of my original post), is rather difficult.

Additionally, had you read my post you would've seen where I validated it's tactical necessity. I'm not calling for an end to "vulching" simply stating that it's no fun to be on the recieving end.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Vulching Schmulching....... just rearm at the farthest base.. get a fully loaded IL2, P-47 or P-38 and return the favor. Or get in your favorite mount from another base and patrol the base where the vulchers are, try to protect your team mates.. its a no brainer... unless of course there are only 2 bases. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There were only two bases. I rearmed at both and was shot on the ground at both of them. If given the opportunity I would have blown him out of the virtual skies.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>IMO vulching adds to the challenge of the play.. I could never understand why people keep respawning at the same base and getting vulched OVER AND OVER AND OVER... and then complain about it..... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. Yet it doesn't change the frustration value for someone new to the game. I'm not quitting. I'm not even angry that they did it. Simply frustrated and wanted a place to express my frustration.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If bases are protected by AAA, and your team destroys all the AAA, then by all means you should be attacking that airbase in full force. If the opposing team did not think it was vital to protect their base, then by all means you should be hitting that base again. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely. Nothing in my original post denies that.


Basically, as stated in this post, I was frustrated. I can barely take off with any regularity, getting a bit better at that, and I didn't even get a chance to kill myself when someone came through and shot me off the ground. Were they wrong for doing so? Not at all. They were at a strategic advantage to me, and took advantage of that. Good on them. Does that mean that I have to like the tactic when it is used on me? I don't think so. And I was expressing as much on here last night.

Thanks for listening.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

[This message was edited by FI.Snaphoo on Wed September 15 2004 at 09:35 PM.]

Zen--
09-15-2004, 11:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FI.Snaphoo:
And the only way that I'm going to be able to communicate effectively with my "team", that I've found, is on those comms that you're clogging up with conversations on why this plane or that plane is so much better than this other plane over here. Or clogging the airwaves with why you think "Oleg's stuff is ****."
/rant off.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree about the effectiveness of the channel on Warclouds. It is far from useless.

People talk on comms about whatever...the weather, past real life occupations, things they did that day and all kinds of other non combat related stuff. They also complain about the FM, about this guy or that guy, this plane or that plane.

And while sometimes the channel is a busy place and people get stepped on, when you need to talk, TALK. People listen. They want to help each other and when two people who are chatting away hear dogfight commands being rattled out, they stop chatting. They listen and do what they can to help out.

You may be new and may not have seen all that happens online. I'm sure you will if you play the game long enough but let me tell you about Warclouds in particular. Its a strong team that flies together on a regular basis. That team talks alot, gripes alot and spams the channel alot. It may not make sense to you because you're new, but to the regulars its called comraderie.

But one thing I see every night is that when the shooting starts, all the BS chatting stops, people get down to business and get things done. Anyone can interrupt the chatting when they need to and I see plenty of new people doing just that...if they have something to say, they say it. Most people don't seem to give a **** about FM discussions when they have a bandit on their 6, and thats precisely when they 'interrupt' the useless chatter.


I was on comms the other night and that night seems to have spurred this forum post of yours. Since you directly asked me in particular why do I continue to play this game, I feel that my comments on comms that night must be the driving force behind your post here.

I apologize if my comments about the FM of the 190 annoyed or offended you or made you feel as though you had no room to talk. I also apologize if it made the channel sound negative because I used such a colorful vocabulary in my descriptions of the 190...but in my defense I will say that the people on the channel were all adults, all have a generally similar view of things and have heard it all before.

We do fly together alot mind you but its not an exlusive club for 'members only'. If you have something to say...then say it. Thats how you become one of the regulars...by talking when you need to. We all know what the channel is for...do you really think that I consider FM whining to be more important than clearing someone's 6? I'm on the channel alot and believe me, all kinds of people use it, it is far from useless.

I do apologize if I offended you in particular, genuinely I do. But your post makes it sound as though the WC comms are populated by a bunch of disgruntled whiners who would rather cry about the game than play it, who use the channel for their own silly agenda instead of using teamwork to accomplish the mission at hand.

I take offense to that because it is simply not true and I don't care to see someone offhandedly bashing an excellent server with an excellent player base just because they had a bad experience on comms one night, especially when it appears the entire post here is based on something that I myself said that particular night. ME-- not the entire server--Me--blathering on about the faults in the 190 as I flew that exact plane the entire evening. It wasn't the whole server, it wasn't the blue channel, it was ME b*tching about the cursed 190.

The teamwork on WC is often extraordinary, the missions are tough and require extensive teamwork to succeed on and the public channel is anything but useless. If you don't like people whining on comms I can certainly understand that, but to come out to the forum and make exaggerated comments like the quote above is uncalled for imho and has obviously ticked me off.


Just my .02 rupees


/rant off

-Zen-

FI.Snaphoo
09-16-2004, 12:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I disagree about the effectiveness of the channel on Warclouds. It is far from useless. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Odd that you would disagree with that, as that isn't what I said. So we have no disagreement. The comms channel is quite useful.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
People talk on comms about whatever...the weather, past real life occupations, things they did that day and all kinds of other non combat related stuff. They also complain about the FM, about this guy or that guy, this plane or that plane. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great. More power to you. My comments, as stated earlier were out of frustration, and not necessarily intended to offend. If I did, I appologize.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
And while sometimes the channel is a busy place and people get stepped on, when you need to talk, TALK. People listen. They want to help each other and when two people who are chatting away hear dogfight commands being rattled out, they stop chatting. They listen and do what they can to help out.

You may be new and may not have seen all that happens online. I'm sure you will if you play the game long enough but let me tell you about Warclouds in particular. Its a strong team that flies together on a regular basis. That team talks alot, gripes alot and spams the channel alot. It may not make sense to you because you're new, but to the regulars its called comraderie. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand that what you and I may consider comraderie may be different. And I understand that everyone should have the right to talk about whatever is on their minds. Maybe my frustration with my own lack of understanding of this game clouded that. But it doesn't change the fact that I was frustrated with the whole experience. I can't help that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
But one thing I see every night is that when the shooting starts, all the BS chatting stops, people get down to business and get things done. Anyone can interrupt the chatting when they need to and I see plenty of new people doing just that...if they have something to say, they say it. Most people don't seem to give a **** about FM discussions when they have a bandit on their 6, and thats precisely when they 'interrupt' the useless chatter. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't see that. It's just that simple. But you obviously have much more experience than me in this matter as I've only had the game for a short while.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I was on comms the other night and that night seems to have spurred this forum post of yours. Since you directly asked me in particular why do I continue to play this game, I feel that my comments on comms that night must be the driving force behind your post here. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll be honest. I believe it was either you or the gentleman you were talking to that I quoted. Do I think you two are bad people for talking about what you were? No I don't. I'm sure you are both generally nice people who have had much experience in a game that I know very little about. And in my frustration, I got tired of hearing about it. That part, is probably my own issue to deal with.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I apologize if my comments about the FM of the 190 annoyed or offended you or made you feel as though you had no room to talk. I also apologize if it made the channel sound negative because I used such a colorful vocabulary in my descriptions of the 190...but in my defense I will say that the people on the channel were all adults, all have a generally similar view of things and have heard it all before. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They didn't annoy me as such. Not that I require anything not to annoy me. I just don't understand why people go on and on about something that, as I've read, won't be fixed. When I was on blue, though with no help from me, we seemed to be winning. Yet, there was continued talk about the lack of reality of the flight model, or damage model or lack of power in the Luft planes. This is confusing and frustrating talk for me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
We do fly together alot mind you but its not an exlusive club for 'members only'. If you have something to say...then say it. Thats how you become one of the regulars...by talking when you need to. We all know what the channel is for...do you really think that I consider FM whining to be more important than clearing someone's 6? I'm on the channel alot and believe me, all kinds of people use it, it is far from useless. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps that was the basis of my problem. As a new player (N00b if you prefer, though I do despise the term), I'm still amazed at the "realistic look" of the game. Everything is new to me. Then I'm on with a bunch of other guys, who were shooting me down not 5 minutes prior (I switched sides to even the teams), bashing the game that I've started to greatly enjoy. It frustrated me and I expressed those frustrations here. Though I'm beginning to think that I was a bit quick to do so.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I do apologize if I offended you in particular, genuinely I do. But your post makes it sound as though the WC comms are populated by a bunch of disgruntled whiners who would rather cry about the game than play it, who use the channel for their own silly agenda instead of using teamwork to accomplish the mission at hand.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No need to appologize. We're all adults here.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I take offense to that because it is simply not true and I don't care to see someone offhandedly bashing an excellent server with an excellent player base just because they had a bad experience on comms one night, especially when it appears the entire post here is based on something that I myself said that particular night. ME-- not the entire server--Me--blathering on about the faults in the 190 as I flew that exact plane the entire evening. It wasn't the whole server, it wasn't the blue channel, it was ME b*tching about the cursed 190.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't think it was so "offhand", but I wasn't intending to slander anyone. And I never mentioned anything about the server, with the exception of the "vulching". While I will freely admit that you are the inspiration, and the quoted member, in my post. But, you are not the only person I've heard expounding on their knowledge of Oleg's failings on comms. It just all got to me, so I shared.

WC is a fine server. I've never meant to imply anything different. I appoligize if it came accross that way. But, I would be naive to blame the server for it's occupants, so I figured that was a moot point to cover.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
The teamwork on WC is often extraordinary, the missions are tough and require extensive teamwork to succeed on and the public channel is anything but useless. If you don't like people whining on comms I can certainly understand that, but to come out to the forum and make exaggerated comments like the quote above is uncalled for imho and has obviously ticked me off. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never once did I say that comms were useless. Never once did I say that WC was anything but an awesome server. Never once, in my entire post, did I say that everyone was like this. I said:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And most of the people I've met have been fairly helpful.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

and

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As I stated before, the majority of people that I've met on here and in the game seem to be ok people. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't mean to imply that you or anyone else wasn't in that majority. I was frustrated. Not a good excuse now that I think about it. But it's the only reason I have. And if you'll recall, you weren't just preaching to the masses, you had at least one other guy agreeing and adding to the conversation.

While I can certainly understand why you could take exception to what I said. I meant none of it to be an offhanded account at all. Those were my experiences, as I experienced them. I wrote what I saw and heard. I thought I had done so with out added drama or exaggeration. You obviously see that differently. I can't help that.

I can honestly say that I meant no offense. I am, and continue to be, a new player with many, many frustrations. Perhaps, as I intimated before, I was a bit hasty in venting those frustrations. But it was not my intent to do so in an offensive manner. I'm merely trying to understand the rationale behind it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

BaldieJr
09-16-2004, 12:38 AM
I hate cheese vouchering.

http://www.acphosting.com/BandR.jpg

Zen--
09-16-2004, 12:48 AM
Fair enough.

Maybe in the future it might be a better idea to address the issue with the offending person at the moment or the server admin later on. SPaRX has no problem disciplining the channel if it needs it, he's very hands on administering the server.

I think you'll find most players have a pretty thick skin and will realize when they need to shut up if given a little prompting.


I for one would like to feel as though I am one of the last people here that might discourage new players from enjoying the game. One of the great things about this community is how welcoming it usually is for new members and I'd like to think WC is the same as a server. If I gave a bad impression of the game again I do genuinely apologize whether it's needed or not and definately don't want to spoil anyone's enjoyment of the game.

You vented your frustration by coming here to the forum...sometimes we vent ours by cursing a blue streak to each other on comms. While perhaps not the best way to handle it especially around new players it generally causes no harm that I know of.

In your case since it did...I apologize.


&lt;S&gt;

-Zen-

FI.Snaphoo
09-16-2004, 01:11 AM
In future I'll try to do it like the "pros" do...

Sounds a bit more fun anyway.

&lt;S&gt;

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

Tvrdi
09-16-2004, 05:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NippleCorn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tvrdi:
enought is gunsight dropping to turn u into a f lunatic not only a luftwhiner....so shut the f up<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you actually saying something? Because for the life of me I can't tell what it is.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah...enough is to experience when ur gunsight drops after one f bullet in the wing in FW190....the worst and most annoying bug I ever experienced online flying this sim (flying from y 2001.)...sorry boy english isnt my native language but I think u understud what I was trying to say but ur a f cinic...