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ploughman
09-02-2004, 02:47 AM
Hi all,

I'm currently flying mit ein SideWinder joystick by M'soft. It's fine and all but as there is no z-axis I don't fly with any rudder which is something of a disadvantage. I am, therefore, considering getting the wallet out of storage and investing in something that allows for rudder input. What would you reccomend?

ploughman
09-02-2004, 02:47 AM
Hi all,

I'm currently flying mit ein SideWinder joystick by M'soft. It's fine and all but as there is no z-axis I don't fly with any rudder which is something of a disadvantage. I am, therefore, considering getting the wallet out of storage and investing in something that allows for rudder input. What would you reccomend?

JG52Uther
09-02-2004, 03:46 AM
For the price....X45 HOTAS http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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[]_---_[] KITT
09-02-2004, 03:56 AM
If you're tight on budget might consider logitech extreme 3D pro. No FF but twisted joystick for rudder control. But i heard some bad experiences with logitech products. I'm using it now and seems there's no problem....yet maybe.

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Nexus2005
09-02-2004, 04:10 AM
I bought an X45 and hated the joystick. I found it uncomfortable and it felt inaccurate to use so I sent it back. Try before you buy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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STENKA_69.GIAP
09-02-2004, 04:40 AM
Do it properly - buy some rudder pedals

you won't regret it

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Lightning72
09-02-2004, 05:37 AM
I was in the identical situation a couple of weeks ago -- had the same stick and was checking the forum for advice. It came down to cost and my current capabilities (and somewhat limited potential).

The best, but by far the most expensive way to go is the CH route with their combination of joystick and pedals. It'll cost you a few hundred and in my mind if I was going to spend that much I probably would also have wanted Track IR and perhaps a better computer and video card. Not totally unreasonable if you really enjoy simming and have the time and money, but for me, with my talents and current skill level, its not warranted.

The next best level seems to be the Saitek sticks, particularly the X45 and the Evo. The former is about twice as much as the latter but both are reasonable (2-3 times the cost of your old stick).

The x45 is a two piece system, throttle and joystick. Both pieces have hat switches and multiple buttons with mode/shift combinations and are highly programable. If you choose you can program virtually all the keyboard commands to the stick. The joystick does not have a twist handle so the rudder is usually programmed to one of the sliders.

The Saitek Evo stick is the one that I ended up purchasing because it was the only one I could find to try out before buying (and I liked its feel). It is very firm and more precise compared to the microsoft stick (which also has a pretty good feel in my view). It is adjustable to allow for small/large or left/right hand comninations. The rudder (z-axis) is done by twisting the handle and this can take a few days to get used to (twisting handle and pushing forward on stick can require quite a contortion in some extreme cases).

Like the X45 the stick is highly programmable (although slightly less so than the x45). It has a hat switch for view, ten buttons/triggers and two shift switches (which means that you can program 3 functions to each button). I particularly like the abillity to program macros
(eg 5 or 10 touches of the positive trim button with one touch) and the advanced commands (which allow thing like "press for zoom, release to return to normal view).

I relly enjoy the Evo stick. I had some initial difficulties formulating a profile but once this was out of the way everything worked well. You should be aware that you need to load the stck before each FB session (some people find this irritating). It doesn't bother me because I use a slightly different programming profile depending on whether I'm flying a fighter or a fighter-bomber and so I load the desired stick before starting the game in any case.

Hope this helps.

VMF513_Sandman
09-02-2004, 05:54 AM
i would highly advise NOT to get any logitech's. they will break within 3-6 months. x-45 will give u more programing options, but the stick itself has no twist for the rudder. that is on the throttle body and it has a rather uncomfortable feel to it.

saitek evo also programable, has twist for rudder. 40 buxs...cheeeep. good stick.

thrustmaster has a throttle/stick hotas setup, but the stick itself has twist rudder control. i didnt really like it, vmf513_warlock loves it. think his is the thrustmaster2.

AlGroover
09-02-2004, 06:26 AM
I had the Logitech stick. It lasted 2 months before the x axis deflection started disappearing. Apparently it's the potentiometers that pack up. A shame because I really liked that stick. I've now got a Saitek Cyborg evo that works very well and is about the same cost even if I did have to order it from the other side of the country (Australia) as no local dealers carry Saitek.

FI.Snaphoo
09-02-2004, 06:45 AM
I have the X45 as well, and I really enjoy it... The only thing that I don't like is the "finger guard" accross the front of the stick itself. It makes my rather large meathooks feel slightly cramped. I haven't ever used pedals, so I don't miss them, although I do have to adjust my throttle grip slightly when I want to use rudder. I haven't counted that as a nuissance yet, though.

Good luck on your search.

~Snaph.

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il2rookie
09-02-2004, 06:54 AM
Like several posters above I would highly suggest a Saitek stick. I used to have a logitech with no twist axis as well, and when I started playing il2 I got a Saitek cybord 3d (similar to evo but a bit cheaper). It's durable, very precise, in short it's a great joystick.

bird_brain
09-02-2004, 06:54 AM
Apparently the Thrustmaster Cougar HOTAS has gone out of vogue although I highly recommend it with a set of CH rudder pedals. Alot of people say they have had problems with them but mine has been trouble free since day one about 2 years ago. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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ploughman
09-02-2004, 07:08 AM
Thanks for your help guys.

As the ball and chain would probably put a delicately bejewelled fist through my monitor if I came home with foot pedals and a throttle quadrant I will check out the Thrustmaster and the Saitek Evo, whilst steering well clear of the Logitek.

SaintViper01
09-02-2004, 07:20 AM
I agree with the comments on the Cougar. Mine's been solid for 2 years now. It's also very flexible. I use the range and elevation dials to control trim and prop pitch.

For rudders, a twist stick will work but doesn't give very fine control. I use the pedals from my racing wheel. Not as realistic as dedicated flight sim pedals, but they are adequate what you need rudder control for. The game allows you to use multiple controllers which is nice.

bird_brain
09-02-2004, 07:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ploughman:
As the ball and chain would probably put a delicately bejewelled fist through my monitor if I came home with foot pedals and a throttle quadrant<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All the more reason to get a Cougar...It's metal and the wife couldn't destroy it if she tries.......And besides, then you would have to get a new 22" monitor, right? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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lil_labbit
09-02-2004, 07:27 AM
Well its very very sad but DON'T get an X45 - rudder is on a rocker under the throttle and is unusable http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Getting an extra Saitek evo would be a solution (that's what I have), but you are better off waiting a couple of weeks - the Saitek X52 is coming (so is the Saitek cyborg evo Gold FFB)...
X52 will cost about the same as the x-45 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, and has a swivel stick (like the evo) but no FFB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/images/product/pcp/x52.jpg
http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/x52.htm

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Pancho74
09-02-2004, 07:36 AM
My humble opinion for a low budget.....I've a Sidewinder Precision 2; the stick twist for rudder and works very well. I used it for a year without problems.
Try to find one of these ......here in Argentain we could still find some in stores really cheap.

JG54_Arnie
09-02-2004, 08:20 AM
And in case you have a steering wheel lying about, use its pedals, works great for me here.

But then, maybe you dont have a wheel.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

---------------------------
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ploughman
09-02-2004, 08:39 AM
No, no steering wheel. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

I'm of to sunny Espania to go walking in their smashing mountains next weekish so that will give me an opportunity to wait for the Saitek X52 to come out before I make a rash purchasing decision based entirely on packaging. What's an FFB, though? Sounds like the sort of thing a gentleman could do with.

TgD Thunderbolt56
09-02-2004, 08:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by STENKA_69.GIAP:
Do it properly - buy some rudder pedals

you won't regret it

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


What he said http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

A set of CH Pro Pedals along with that MS stick should fit right nicely.

TB


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lil_labbit
09-02-2004, 08:55 AM
FFB is Force FeedBack http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
It's a definite plus in that you can "feel" buffeting, torque, speed, guns firing and landing strip/terrain feedback on the stick when on the ground... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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Xnomad
09-02-2004, 11:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
What should I have in my hand?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahem..cough cough

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steve_v
09-02-2004, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>What should I have in my hand?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://www.geocities.com/g8tr45/vergina.txt

DuxCorvan
09-02-2004, 02:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>What should I have in my hand?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ehem, I disagree...

Spanish red wine.
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ArjenKuifje
09-02-2004, 05:03 PM
If you are short on cash, and want to use rudder pedals, try my solution:
Home-Made pedals!
In short: A rotating bar with footholds on both ends, has a fork in its middle, which 'grabs' a the stick of a joystick! Issa simple!
(dunno how to insert images.. sorry! Hope the idea is clear enough!)

Rudder pedals
Notes:
* Measurements may need adjustments, depending on model and size of Joystick! (Or by your own ideas or preferences)
* This is not a fool-proof build-manual!
* I can give no guarantee on if it will work!
* Be careful in using power-tools, and other sharp tools!
* Warning: English is not my native language...

Materials:
-One Joystick, USB (I used a Thrustmaster Predator TH 400)
-One ballbearing, 7cm (I used one from the rear-wheel of a VW-beetle..;-)
-Rubber- or other elastic band (rather 'powerfull')

Wood:
-One 18mm thick plate, 36cm x 42cm (Base-plate)
-One 18mm thick plate, 25cm x 17cm (Joystick base-plate)
-One bar 18mm thick 50cm x 7cm (Rudder-bar)
-Two blocks, 4.5cm x 4.5cm x 8cm (full-deflection delimiters)
-Two plates, 8m thick, 27cm x 10cm (Footholds)
-Two pieces of carpet, 27cm x 10cm (Carpet for the footholds)
-One 12mm thick plate, 4cm x 15cm ('Fork-base')
-Two 8mm thick plates, 4cm x 15cm ('Fork-sides')
-One block, 2cm x 4cm x 8 cm (part of the fork)
- Some screws...
-Glue

Instructions:
- Mount the footholds on both ends of the rudder-bar, you might want to mount them in an inclined way, to have more grip, or a better hold for your feet. Glue the carpet onto the holds.
- Mount the ball-bearing on the base plate, and on the ball bearing mount the rudder-bar (Main thing is: the bar should be able to rotate on the bearing. Any other solution can work, I find the ball bearing very sturdy...)
- Create the fork, by mounting the two fork-side plates on each side of the fork base plate, and the small block in between. Note that measurements and construction need to be adjusted, so the fork will fit neatly around the top of joystick....
(Feel free to do this completely different from my way....!)
- Mount the joystick base plate vertically on the base plate, on the opposite side of where the rudder bar is mounted.
- Mount the joystick on it's base-plate, in which it's flipped in a way that the side that normaly faces you when using the stick, is on top. If you do this the other way 'round, applying left rudder will result in right-rudder and vice versa...
I just drilled holes in the case of the stick, and use two large screws to fix it. Please inspect the inside of the stick before drilling holes, so you will not damage any wires or electronics inside!
- Now mount the fork on the rudder bar, adjust it untill it fits into the top of the joystick, and deflecting of the rudder bar gives full motion to the joystick.
- Place the two blocks on the base-plate, so they function as full deflection delimiters, if you leave them out, you will find you kick the rudder with too much power, you will probably break the joystick, or it will come loose from the fork.
- Mount the center of the rubber band on the block on top of the fork, and either end to each side of the joystick base plate, and adjust the tension, so the rudder will center automatically if you 'let go', and also to prevent the rudder from moving too easyly.