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kyrule2
02-18-2004, 08:21 PM
At the end of a book I have called Pacific Sweep by William Hess there are 3 articles/pieces written by pilots about flying the P-38, P-40, and P-47 in combat. If I'm up to it I'll post the other two after this one. PLEASE NOTE THE OTHER TWO ARE MUCH BETTER IMO.

Flying the P-47 in combat by Lt Col. William Dunham (16 victories) of the 348thFG. Originally from "twelve to one, fighter combat tactics in the SWPA."

"In this theater, the best individual defensive tactic is a hard and fast offensive, regardless of the odds. This tactic used in defense takes full advantage of the superior speed and diving ability of the P-47. It permits a pass at the enemy and a fast dive away with little danger of being shot down.

If you are attacked from above while you are at cruising speed, and the attacking planes have excessive speed, the best defensive maneuver is a sharp aileron roll to the right and down, diving out 180 degrees from the direction of the attack. This maneuver cannot be started too soon, but must be executed just before the attacking plane is within range. The slow aileron action of the Japanese fighters at high speeds makes it impossible for them to pull through far enough to get the proper lead, and by the time he can change direction you should have enough speed to easily outdistance him.

If attacked from above when you are on the deck and you do not see the enemy soon enough to turn into him for a head-on pass, the best immediate defensive maneuver is a gentle skid. The average Japanese pilot will not correct for skid unless it is very noticeable. In one case, a Tony expended all of his ammunition without a single hit while firing from dead astern position at a range of 100 yards.

In offensive individual combat there are 2 principles to observe. First, NEVER ATTACK UNLESS YOU HAVE AN EQUAL OR GREATER ALTITUDE THAN THE ENEMY. Second, plan your attack to afford the greatest element of surprise. An altitude advantage of 10,000 feet does not guarantee surprise, but it does offer the greatest odds in favor of securing this advantage. While flying 4-ship fighter sweeps with Colonel Kearby, we made it a policy to go in at 26,000 feet or higher. At this altitude they could neither hear nor see us on the ground, while it was easy for us to see the enemy landing or taking off. Our attack was invariably from the stern, with the sun to our advantage. In every case we were firing before the Japanese knew we were around. Excessive speed of the P-47 in such a diving attack permits a rapid recovery of the altitude advantage begun with. At a speed of 350mph or more, one can easily pull up and hammer-head back down into the fight. IN SUCH AN ATTACK, AND IN ALL ATTACKS ON THE ENEMY, IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT NO TURN GREATER THAN 90 DEGREES BE ATTEMPTED BEFORE BREAKING OFF THE ATTACK.

When attacked from the rear or side, the Japanese will frequently hold his course until you are in firing range, and then turn sharply, making it impossible for you to get a proper lead. A good way to counteract this defensive maneuver is to open up at 500 to 600 yards in order to induce him to make this maneuver in time for you to get sufficient lead. Ninety per cent of the time, the enemy will start his turn at the first sight of tracers, thus giving you time for sufficient leading. In one case a Japanese turned so sharply that I finished the pass head-on.

With additional power afforded by water-injection one can attack from an equal altitude and climb away in a high speed climb until sufficient distance is acquired to make a head-on pass."

Hope you enjoyed it. The ones on the P-40 and P-38 are much better (and longer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif ) and I'll try to put those up sometime soon.

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

3./JG51_Hunde
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kyrule2
02-18-2004, 08:21 PM
At the end of a book I have called Pacific Sweep by William Hess there are 3 articles/pieces written by pilots about flying the P-38, P-40, and P-47 in combat. If I'm up to it I'll post the other two after this one. PLEASE NOTE THE OTHER TWO ARE MUCH BETTER IMO.

Flying the P-47 in combat by Lt Col. William Dunham (16 victories) of the 348thFG. Originally from "twelve to one, fighter combat tactics in the SWPA."

"In this theater, the best individual defensive tactic is a hard and fast offensive, regardless of the odds. This tactic used in defense takes full advantage of the superior speed and diving ability of the P-47. It permits a pass at the enemy and a fast dive away with little danger of being shot down.

If you are attacked from above while you are at cruising speed, and the attacking planes have excessive speed, the best defensive maneuver is a sharp aileron roll to the right and down, diving out 180 degrees from the direction of the attack. This maneuver cannot be started too soon, but must be executed just before the attacking plane is within range. The slow aileron action of the Japanese fighters at high speeds makes it impossible for them to pull through far enough to get the proper lead, and by the time he can change direction you should have enough speed to easily outdistance him.

If attacked from above when you are on the deck and you do not see the enemy soon enough to turn into him for a head-on pass, the best immediate defensive maneuver is a gentle skid. The average Japanese pilot will not correct for skid unless it is very noticeable. In one case, a Tony expended all of his ammunition without a single hit while firing from dead astern position at a range of 100 yards.

In offensive individual combat there are 2 principles to observe. First, NEVER ATTACK UNLESS YOU HAVE AN EQUAL OR GREATER ALTITUDE THAN THE ENEMY. Second, plan your attack to afford the greatest element of surprise. An altitude advantage of 10,000 feet does not guarantee surprise, but it does offer the greatest odds in favor of securing this advantage. While flying 4-ship fighter sweeps with Colonel Kearby, we made it a policy to go in at 26,000 feet or higher. At this altitude they could neither hear nor see us on the ground, while it was easy for us to see the enemy landing or taking off. Our attack was invariably from the stern, with the sun to our advantage. In every case we were firing before the Japanese knew we were around. Excessive speed of the P-47 in such a diving attack permits a rapid recovery of the altitude advantage begun with. At a speed of 350mph or more, one can easily pull up and hammer-head back down into the fight. IN SUCH AN ATTACK, AND IN ALL ATTACKS ON THE ENEMY, IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT NO TURN GREATER THAN 90 DEGREES BE ATTEMPTED BEFORE BREAKING OFF THE ATTACK.

When attacked from the rear or side, the Japanese will frequently hold his course until you are in firing range, and then turn sharply, making it impossible for you to get a proper lead. A good way to counteract this defensive maneuver is to open up at 500 to 600 yards in order to induce him to make this maneuver in time for you to get sufficient lead. Ninety per cent of the time, the enemy will start his turn at the first sight of tracers, thus giving you time for sufficient leading. In one case a Japanese turned so sharply that I finished the pass head-on.

With additional power afforded by water-injection one can attack from an equal altitude and climb away in a high speed climb until sufficient distance is acquired to make a head-on pass."

Hope you enjoyed it. The ones on the P-40 and P-38 are much better (and longer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif ) and I'll try to put those up sometime soon.

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

3./JG51_Hunde
http://www.jg51.com/

frag_bravo
02-18-2004, 08:56 PM
thanks Im a big fan of the P-47.Again thanks for the tactical reading

VW-IceFire
02-18-2004, 09:22 PM
I'm going to read that until its ingrained into my head http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

Vladimir_No2
02-18-2004, 09:39 PM
Wonderfull stuff. Unfortunatly, it appears to be of limited use to the gaming community

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"Engage the enemy more closely" -Rear Admiral Cradock

JHAT__
02-18-2004, 09:40 PM
Nice reading. I guess that doesn t apply to the german fighters as they wouldn t turn that much (like when he says the jap turned so much they amde a head on pass) and could climb better I guess. I m looking ofrward to the P47N so I can fly against the japs that way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Nice reading though. Going to try it out against the zeros.

JHAT

GR142_Astro
02-18-2004, 09:50 PM
Kyrule2,

Thanks for posting this. It is appreciated and I look forward to the rest. Robert S. Johnson also mentioned skidding his Jug quite a bit. There must be something to it.

____________________________

"If Adolf Hitler flew in today, they'd send a limosine anyway."

Zen--
02-18-2004, 10:17 PM
Nice post Kyrule, thanks for taking the time to type it all up. Real combat tactics are great to read whether they work in game or not, they give you more things to think about and some element or essence of them may match something in the game and help people improve.

Tactics like this greatly improved my skills as a tank commander for one thing...because if you read between the lines (and not so in between the lines), what he is saying is to always attack with advantage, to always be aggressive. Important lessons for any type of combatant, whether it be an FB pilot, a real pilot, a grunt or a martial artist.

Sun Tzu had a pretty good understanding of P47 tactics, though he never saw one http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

RicknZ
02-18-2004, 10:58 PM
I love the p47
The uber vulcher

2x 250kg bombs + 1x 500kg bomb + 6x 114mm rockets.

Ahhh heaven.

Copperhead310th
02-18-2004, 11:21 PM
Thanks Kyrule Very informative. even more so for dedicated PTO pilots like the 310th.

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310th FS & 380th BG website (http://www.members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron)

XyZspineZyX
02-18-2004, 11:28 PM
Thank you Kyrule. Maybe now I can stop those annoying flatspins. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif



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JHAT__
02-18-2004, 11:55 PM
Hi, I just took 4 P47 and put against 4 zeros, all ace AI. The P47 won, starting at 25k ft and finishing at 3000. It worked pretty well to do the headon pass, extend and come back for it. It turned out that they did the same as they couldn t catch me. So I started climbing and diving on them (like it says). Worked pretty well. Just forgot about the skidding thing to evade shots.

Thanks again for the post.

JHAT

Cajun76
02-19-2004, 12:36 AM
Most Zeros can't touch the P-47 in game at combat speed (500kph). You can extend, high speed climb and come around at will. Diving away also works. Zeros only present a danger when caught in another fight, and/or low and slow. Imagine that. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

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Rajvosa
02-19-2004, 01:09 AM
P-47 - The most boring fighter in Il-2.

YAWN!

Why bother? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

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kyrule2
02-19-2004, 07:21 AM
Thanks for the comments guys, my pleasure. I'll try to get the others (P-40 and P-38) up soon, they are very good and will likely spark a-little more discussion.

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3./JG51_Hunde
http://www.jg51.com/