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View Full Version : Why are bots so ******ed?



AgentCelt
04-17-2017, 09:56 PM
This game seriously has some of the worst bots I have ever seen.

Bot with 1 bar of HP pro blocks every attack, gains revenge and then for some reason bot prefers to have his head chopped off rather than using revenge...

Bot is pro at perfectly timing a GB but then just stares at the enemy until the GB is over.....

I was just in a dominion game where a bot decided to just stare at a door the entire game back at our spawn rather than fighting... literally, the bot just stood next to a door and the bot even had the nerve to request the rest of us for help.

I was playing Skirmish earlier and I managed to get a rep 8 Raider down to 1 bar of HP. I got a GB, before I could swing a heavy with my Zerk which would have killed him, a bot Conq comes out of nowhere and shield bashes the Raider and gave him revenge....

Is there any plan make bots more intelligent? And no that doesn't mean introducing level 4 bots. It means making the level 2 and level 3 bots actually do something useful.

Varakharne
04-17-2017, 09:59 PM
Anyone else find it funny how everything in gaming has evolved except AI ? We spend so much on graphics,sound and physics but it seems like AI is always the least thing to get TLC. Is AI programming that hard that most devs just give up ? I mean I used to do some AI way-pointing for the old Quake 2 and Unreal games and it was time consuming but never difficult. granted thats only a small part of it but I cannot fathom why Ai is always so neglected.

Lumina-US
04-17-2017, 10:03 PM
This game seriously has some of the worst bots I have ever seen.

Bot with 1 bar of HP pro blocks every attack, gains revenge and then for some reason bot prefers to have his head chopped off rather than using revenge...

Bot is pro at perfectly timing a GB but then just stares at the enemy until the GB is over.....

I was just in a dominion game where a bot decided to just stare at a door the entire game back at our spawn rather than fighting... literally, the bot just stood next to a door and the bot even had the nerve to request the rest of us for help.

I was playing Skirmish earlier and I managed to get a rep 8 Raider down to 1 bar of HP. I got a GB, before I could swing a heavy with my Zerk which would have killed him, a bot Conq comes out of nowhere and shield bashes the Raider and gave him revenge....

Is there any plan make bots more intelligent? And no that doesn't mean introducing level 4 bots. It means making the level 2 and level 3 bots actually do something useful.As much as this might be to your disliking, Bots ARE MEANT to be somewhat stupid, otherwise noone would ever play against real humans.

Never played CS with Bots, back in the Half-Life Mod days? - because of bad waypointing they sometimes ran straight into walls and kept doing that for minutes - so much for that...

AgentCelt
04-17-2017, 10:05 PM
As much as this might be to your disliking, Bots ARE MEANT to be somewhat stupid, otherwise noone would ever play against real humans.

Never played CS with Bots, back in the Half-Life Mod days? - because of bad waypointing they sometimes ran straight into walls and kept doing that for minutes - so much for that...

They should either remove bots from PvP game modes or make them smarter. I honestly see no reason why I need a bot on my team that camps back at spawn guarding a door from nobody.

Joseph_2017
04-17-2017, 10:09 PM
Bots with high AI would result in world domination. 🤖

AgentCelt
04-17-2017, 10:13 PM
Bots with high AI would result in world domination. ��

Yeah I imagine the way the world will end is by level 10 For Honor bots becoming a reality. At least I'll die seeing a Warden vortexing the **** out of my neighbor.

DrExtrem
04-17-2017, 11:39 PM
Well.

Can i have your dumb bots? Yoo can have my ESL certified killing machines, that are using every GB effectively (whole countering my GBs), spamming lights, are even parrying like masters, faint and read out the controller to counter me.

UbiJurassic
04-17-2017, 11:58 PM
While I am not aware of any current developments in regards to changes in the bot AI, it's likely that we will tweak certain AI behaviors if we find that there is a problem with the way they currently operate.

TheLastPandaa
04-18-2017, 12:02 AM
Try to fight vs a lv3 warden on a custom match. I spent almost 2 hours yesterday training with my Warlord vs him. That guy is a a total M&ther F&$ker

Lumina-US
04-18-2017, 12:05 AM
Sure will do - i'll send you his head - do you prefer express or normal postage?

http://imgur.com/a/tVELJ

Deathmatch lvl 3 Bots only - as you can see, he (or rather they) didn't MF me that much, didn't even score - cheers!

AgentCelt
04-18-2017, 12:41 AM
While I am not aware of any current developments in regards to changes in the bot AI, it's likely that we will tweak certain AI behaviors if we find that there is a problem with the way they currently operate.

I think staring at a door for an entire game might just be a problem.

Lumina-US
04-18-2017, 12:44 AM
I think staring at a door for an entire game might just be a problem.I saw it at least twice as well - Dominion 4v4 - Bridge Map.

After getting killed, a Valk was standing on the res-point for like 3 mins straight - not a single move she made.

TheMalakith
04-18-2017, 12:45 AM
While I am not aware of any current developments in regards to changes in the bot AI, it's likely that we will tweak certain AI behaviors if we find that there is a problem with the way they currently operate.

Only problem i have with them atm is that they cheat. They can Gb you at any time in your swing, block all angles at the same time (without full block), and weirdest of al they seem to get some kind of super armor when they fight multiple people and are inside a move. I had bots with half a bar that took only like 5 damage from a warden heavy overhead, even though it did about 2 bars of damage all the other hits.

teksuo1
04-18-2017, 01:28 AM
The highest bots you can find in dominion are actually a joke. i'll take an average player over a bot as a teammate anytime.

UbiJurassic
04-18-2017, 01:41 AM
I think staring at a door for an entire game might just be a problem.



Only problem i have with them atm is that they cheat. They can Gb you at any time in your swing, block all angles at the same time (without full block), and weirdest of al they seem to get some kind of super armor when they fight multiple people and are inside a move. I had bots with half a bar that took only like 5 damage from a warden heavy overhead, even though it did about 2 bars of damage all the other hits.

Yeah, that might be a problem. :p

I'll forward the AI feedback over to the team so they're aware of the issues.

Haplo_Bane
04-18-2017, 05:12 AM
Yes,I've touched on the bots a while back,but ubijurassic closed my thread due to "bumping" If the game wasn't so broken in so many areas,the lack of bot intelligence would have been noticed sooner. So for you ubijurassic and for the rules of the forum I shall repeat myself. A bot at the start of overwatch dominion,ran left,went to turn next right.Turned early,hit the wall but continued running.Until it got killed. Citadel skirmish.A bot goes to climb ladder,misses,but continues to try climbing next to it. Until it got killed. Bots that stand next to you,no enemies around,It's not in guard mode and does not revive,regardless that you're mashing the lb button with a column of light shining out your body. After reading this,the bot replacement system seems fine,but what of the bots at the start.The ones on my team ( I always seem to get stuck with the bot when there's only 7 players ) is completely useless.I'm lucky if it gets an objective,let alone a takedown.On skirmish they are good at running around collecting boosts instead of helping though.And yes,how many times have we seen a bot get revenge and die without using it ? Your company can ignore it,downplay it,sweep it under the rug and even block threads,but it doesn't really make the problem go away,does it ubijurassic.Talking about rules,what's the rule on companies selling people a product they KNOW is broken while they're selling it?

kweassa1917
04-18-2017, 06:18 AM
People say they want "better AI" in practically any game these days, but I know for a fact that people don't actually want "better AI."

Want to hear the uncomfortable truth?


When people ask for "better AI", what they actually mean is: "We want an AI that is a bit smarter and acts more natural --so its much more fun to beat around than a 'dumb AI' which feels like sparring against a wooden dummy, but at the same time, the AI needs to be weak enough so we can still always win."

I've seen what people do when developers actually do give them a really strong, good AI. People whine like hell and claim AIs are cheating, and its unfair and unbalanced. They start the sentence with, "I know I asked for better AI... but this is too much..." blablabla ad infinitum,.

That's what people do.

I guarantee that when AIs get any better, good enough to contend against average level players, people are going to throw shi*fits in the forums after they get their arses handed to them by BOTs. .


(ps) Better yet -- just up the level of BOTs in Dominion to 3 for a month, as an experiment. And then, watch and observe what people write down in these forums. lol

Haplo_Bane
04-18-2017, 06:34 AM
That is true enough. But bots standing around doing nothing and walking into walls is a totally different kettle of fish.I have bought a remote toy car in the $2 shop that was smart enough to know it hit a wall and go a different direction.IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN IN MODERN GAMES. NO IFS : NO BUTS : NO COCONUTS !

G0dzBlaze
04-18-2017, 06:45 AM
Its a bug with the ai , i saw it maybe three times in 220hrs of gametime. Easy way to fix them is to go throw some attack at them... they will eventually go back in action.

Lumina-US
04-18-2017, 08:28 AM
Want to hear the uncomfortable truth?

When people ask for "better AI", what they actually mean is: "We want an AI that is a bit smarter and acts more natural --so its much more fun to beat around than a 'dumb AI' which feels like sparring against a wooden dummy, but at the same time, the AI needs to be weak enough so we can still always win."

I've seen what people do when developers actually do give them a really strong, good AI. People whine like hell and claim AIs are cheating, and its unfair and unbalanced. They start the sentence with, "I know I asked for better AI... but this is too much..." blablabla ad infinitum,.

That's what people do.Wrong, that's what the KIDS born shortly before 2005 do, adults with a gaming xp of 25+, always do their best to adapt (unless they are whiney little Pampers-poopers)

kweassa1917
04-18-2017, 08:34 AM
Wrong, that's what the KIDS born shortly before 2005 do, adults with a gaming xp of 25+, always do their best to adapt (unless they are whiney little Pampers-poopers)

Adults don't ask for futile stuff like "better AIs" in th first place.

Actually, adults rarely, if ever, post in these BBS and forums. :D

AgentCelt
04-18-2017, 01:33 PM
People say they want "better AI" in practically any game these days, but I know for a fact that people don't actually want "better AI."

Want to hear the uncomfortable truth?


When people ask for "better AI", what they actually mean is: "We want an AI that is a bit smarter and acts more natural --so its much more fun to beat around than a 'dumb AI' which feels like sparring against a wooden dummy, but at the same time, the AI needs to be weak enough so we can still always win."

I've seen what people do when developers actually do give them a really strong, good AI. People whine like hell and claim AIs are cheating, and its unfair and unbalanced. They start the sentence with, "I know I asked for better AI... but this is too much..." blablabla ad infinitum,.

That's what people do.

I guarantee that when AIs get any better, good enough to contend against average level players, people are going to throw shi*fits in the forums after they get their arses handed to them by BOTs. .


(ps) Better yet -- just up the level of BOTs in Dominion to 3 for a month, as an experiment. And then, watch and observe what people write down in these forums. lol

If I had it my way, bots wouldn't even be allowed in PvP matches. I imagine people would be more willing to work as a team if they knew they were a man down in a game. Bots should be for PvAI.

I understand why they use bots as fillers, but those bots should at least use some common sense. Increasing bots to lvl 3 won't change anything when those bots are still playing like mongs.

TheLastPandaa
04-18-2017, 02:45 PM
Sure will do - i'll send you his head - do you prefer express or normal postage?

http://imgur.com/a/tVELJ

Deathmatch lvl 3 Bots only - as you can see, he (or rather they) didn't MF me that much, didn't even score - cheers!

No, no, try 1 vs 1 on a custom match with gear disabled. For some reason that guy some times enter on Godmode where he parryes everything and becomes a master of feints. He still a bot so is very easy to fight against, but still the most op bot of the game imo. In fact he is way better than most wardens i see around thats why i like to train vs him.

DrExtrem
04-18-2017, 03:22 PM
If I had it my way, bots wouldn't even be allowed in PvP matches. I imagine people would be more willing to work as a team if they knew they were a man down in a game. Bots should be for PvAI.

I understand why they use bots as fillers, but those bots should at least use some common sense. Increasing bots to lvl 3 won't change anything when those bots are still playing like mongs.

Emphasis on imagination.

kweassa1917
04-18-2017, 03:28 PM
Emphasis on imagination.

More like wishful thinking. If people were like that, we'd probably already be living in an Utopian world.

DrExtrem
04-18-2017, 03:44 PM
More like wishful thinking. If people were like that, we'd probably already be living in an Utopian world.

We all do wish, that pvp would be more balanced (matchups), less cheesy and a bit more honorable.

Sadly, it is not the case. Basically, I am happy that we have pretty good bots to fight. However, it can be a pretty frustrating experience, if you have to compensate three bots, that have level two in theory but fight alone and like their level one version while the opposing teams bots are level two but faint like masters, run in packs and always use the right counter attack and turtle like hell.

Sure, sometimes, the bots f**k up - it happens but all in all, they are pretty good.

The only thing that can be criticised, is the inconsistency, team balancing and strange dynamic scaling of the bots.

AgentCelt
04-18-2017, 04:43 PM
More like wishful thinking. If people were like that, we'd probably already be living in an Utopian world.

True. If people would just play as a team in a video game about war we would already be living in a perfect world. Seriously, whatever drugs you take, I need to try them. Sounds like some hardcore stuff.