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ChaoticCoyote
05-21-2004, 10:53 AM
I was asked this question by my Native American wife, who noted that we haven't seen any D'ni -- or other characters, for that matter -- who aren't "white." Now, given the small population of D'ni, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they had no racial differences -- but I wonder if any of the NPCs we meet will be of other ethnicities?

Uru allowed avatars to be any natural skin color (alas, no blue avatars!); my wife played soemone dark, for example, to match her own complexion.

Will the Revelation cursor-hand always be that of a "white" person, or can it be colored to fit the player's desire?

http://www.coyotegulch.com/ccuru2.png

ChaoticCoyote
05-21-2004, 10:53 AM
I was asked this question by my Native American wife, who noted that we haven't seen any D'ni -- or other characters, for that matter -- who aren't "white." Now, given the small population of D'ni, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they had no racial differences -- but I wonder if any of the NPCs we meet will be of other ethnicities?

Uru allowed avatars to be any natural skin color (alas, no blue avatars!); my wife played soemone dark, for example, to match her own complexion.

Will the Revelation cursor-hand always be that of a "white" person, or can it be colored to fit the player's desire?

http://www.coyotegulch.com/ccuru2.png

CAGrayWolf
05-21-2004, 12:41 PM
Pat has already confirmed that there will be options for different colored hand cursors ... though I'm not sure of the exact details of how this will work ... we will also have the options of a left or right handed cursor as well. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Perhaps the ending has not yet been written!

http://www.dnijazzclub.com/mwsc/bnr006.gif (http://store.ubi.com/item.jsp?item=008888682028&category=PC)

Pat_09
05-21-2004, 01:02 PM
Actually, you could be a Smurf if you want (or Hulk)!

YOU choose, that's what the myst experience is all about... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (well, the "choosing part", not specifically being hulk or a smurf... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif)

Srikandi
05-21-2004, 01:18 PM
As for the D'ni, it would be surprising if they weren't "white", since they'd been living underground for thousands of years, and even their eyes weren't adapted to the sun (hence the glasses)... as for "bookworlders", I don't think I can say anything outside of the spoiler section!

Sri's Relto (http://members.cox.net/srikandi/Uru/)

biggie_101
05-21-2004, 03:15 PM
i haven't seen anything from Uru that forces your avatar to be "white", mine wasn't.

As for the D'ni being 'white', who knows for sure what will happen. Dull-colourless eyes, dark hair (no sun to lighten the hair colour, what else could you expect?). their skin colour, i guess doesn't matter really- how dark or light it is, that's the creators choice in the end.

<edit: Now try using a bit shorter signature. And be careful what you quote from No Sympathy for the Majority. This wasn't bad, but it was longer than your original message.>

[This message was edited by maztec on Sat May 22 2004 at 01:30 AM.]

albinogul
05-21-2004, 03:29 PM
Green and blue hands? Cool... will we be able to choose gender? Age? Nail polish? Nail length? Hairyness? What if I've got big blemishes on my hands? What if I've got no hands at all?

Uhm.

Pat_09
05-21-2004, 03:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>will we be able to choose gender? Age? Nail polish? Nail length? Hairyness? What if I've got big blemishes on my hands? What if I've got no hands at all?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well...If you have a good imagination, you can do whatever you want!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Eat_My_Shortz
05-22-2004, 04:39 AM
Well it was wierd that Uru didn't allow you do have wierd skin colours, but EYES were a different story.
You could have red or purple or black eyes and look really really freaky.

Fun excercise: Get a male character, make him really skinny, really old, make his skin as pale white as possible and give him red eyes. Then make barefoot, and pick the scraggliest clothes possible.
Zombie Uru style.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: People who know binary and people who don't.

mszv
05-22-2004, 10:26 AM
Different ethnicities for other NPCs would be great. It's a big wide world out there - I'd like to see more different types of people in it.

-----------------------------
Regards,
mszv - play as amarez

Put that down, you are not in a game, this is my life!

Srikandi
05-22-2004, 02:24 PM
Hey, it's a big wide multiverse! Never mind world!

Funny how not only are the "civilized" inhabitants generally white, they're also generally humanoid...

Sri's Relto (http://members.cox.net/srikandi/Uru/)

Alahmnat
05-22-2004, 03:03 PM
Well... there's the Bahro...

Unless I'm wholly mistaken, the only native inhabitants we've ever seen have been from Riven and Narayan, which is vastly unrepresentative of the number of peoples that the D'ni encountered (and heck, even just Atrus himself encountered at least four times as many races that we have information about). It could probably be assumed that climactic conditions in certain Ages we know of would have produced "darker" people... such as Everdunes.

As has been said, it does make perfect sense for the D'ni to lack a great deal of skin pigment... they lived in a cave. The Rivenese had a somewhat more "native" appearance to them (I couldn't pinpoint a specific region they would have come from, but they don't all fit the "white American" mold either). I suppose they could have painted Brad black for his role in Exile... but given that Zandi and company in Uru are all based on real people (some to a larger extent than others), it would again make sense to make them look something like the people they were based on.

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StarScrap
05-22-2004, 05:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alahmnat:
The Rivenese had a somewhat more "native" appearance to them (I couldn't pinpoint a specific region they would have come from, but they don't all fit the "white American" mold either).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't want to sound too vehement about political correctness, because I'm not, but I'd just like to point out that "native" and "of color" are two different things. Native Germans are very white, for instance. In fact, Native American is something of a misnomer even, because "native" simply means "born in". I am a native American, even though I am not a Native American.

Okay, back on topic.

Personally I think that having non-whites in the game would be great, but NOT for the sole purpose of having non-whites. No token black people please. Put in Africans where they fit, Chinese where they fit, Indians where they fit, Native Americans where they fit, etc.

Different does not mean better or worse. It just means NOT THE SAME.

Alahmnat
05-22-2004, 06:05 PM
My point was that they don't look like your typical caucasian person. They have the look of a different kind of people, but like I said, I couldn't really pin down a specific region I would picture Cho as living in on this planet, so I went with a word which obviously wasn't a very good choice instead.

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D'niPedia Writers Ring (http://www.dpwr.net) (DPWR.NET)
Uru and Myst Forum Moderator / Community Assistant
Please note: I do not respond to Private Topics dealing with technical support or hint requests for the Myst series

Rocky1138
05-22-2004, 06:16 PM
I'm with StarScrap 100%.

There's nothing worse than a minority being in a movie/game/book, etc. just because they're a minority and it's a token effort.

*shudder*

That being said:

If, for example, they could explain why the people of a certain age were black (or it was obvious and apparent) then I wouldn't even notice. And that's the whole point. I want it so I don't even notice. If I notice, it's obviously enough to throw me off and think "wait a minute..."

http://sigx.yuriy.net/images/skin/Ghost+in+Navy+Blue/0/xRocky1138.png (http://sigx.yuriy.net)

Srikandi
05-22-2004, 06:28 PM
Ahem -- why shouldn't they have to explain why the people of a given age are white? or have straight hair? Etc etc?

I think this "anglo unless proven otherwise" assumption IS problematic. If we're talking about people not just in various parts of our own world, but on different worlds in possibly different universes, I'd say similar is MORE surprising than different.

Sri's Relto (http://members.cox.net/srikandi/Uru/)

Alahmnat
05-22-2004, 06:34 PM
Well, unlike Star Trek, where running into idyllic colony after idyllic colony of Southern Californians (no offense http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) is weird and not a little disturbing (okay, offense, but not at anybody here http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif), Linking is a bit less random. So, from a different perspective, it would make sense that the D'ni would have linked to Ages where the inhabitants were similar in appearance to themselves.

----------
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D'niPedia Writers Ring (http://www.dpwr.net) (DPWR.NET)
Uru and Myst Forum Moderator / Community Assistant
Please note: I do not respond to Private Topics dealing with technical support or hint requests for the Myst series

Srikandi
05-22-2004, 06:43 PM
Except I have the impression from the books that the D'ni often couldn't predict ahead of time whether the ages they linked to were populated or not?

And, speaking as a Southern Califorian, let me just say that there's a heck of a lot more racial diversity in SoCal than in Star Trek http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sri's Relto (http://members.cox.net/srikandi/Uru/)

matt myat
05-23-2004, 01:18 AM
True Sri, any age's inhabitants (if any) would be suited to their environment and not actually "written in" by the author of the book, (wonder if that's possible though?) just as those in D'ni are suited to that environment (I seem to remember them having sensitive vision requiring special glasses in particularly bright ages)

Of the D'ni people, there is no reason to expect a multicultural society, particular since (If I remember correctly) it was not considered "right" to mix with those of written ages.

But I think it was just a preconcieved notion as to the potrayal of skin colour in Myst games so far, and of what we've heard of Revelation (and with Uru for that matter) there seems to be a trend in deculturalization.

I think we're going to see some new civilisation(s?) in Revelation, so who knows what to expect? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Coronagold
05-23-2004, 07:13 AM
Are we going to see Kirk kiss Uhura in Revelation?

http://img36.photobucket.com/albums/v108/sargem/POTS_copy.jpg

earthangell
05-23-2004, 09:48 AM
ok.. i know who Kirk is, but who is Uhura????

----------------------------
Lei'arra in URU

To dance is to breathe...to breathe is to live....to live is to dance....

tchotchke2
05-23-2004, 11:20 AM
Uhura was the communications officer. Female, sexy, black, older (by this time) w/really long fingernails.

earthangell
05-23-2004, 03:21 PM
did she also have the beehive on her head? (sorry, old hairstyle...lol)

----------------------------
Lei'arra in URU

To dance is to breathe...to breathe is to live....to live is to dance....

Nebodin
05-23-2004, 09:44 PM
I'm not entirely sure how I know this, but wasn't that kiss the first interracial kiss broadcast on TV?

From memory the star trek crew had encountered some aliens who were able to telepathically control their movements (does that make it telekinetic?) and they made them act out some sort of performance which culminated with Kirk being forced to kiss Uhura. Apparently it was a big deal at the time.

frankenscarf
05-23-2004, 11:03 PM
I think you're right Neb. Of course, if you count the number of aliens with whom Kirk played tonsil-hockey, interracial/interspieces kisses had been the norm from the get go. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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JOURNALS OF MYST & URU ARCHIVE - GET YOUR READ ON! (http://www.l7square.com/journals/)

Phen1
05-23-2004, 11:31 PM
LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

...and good point. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~~PHEN~~

Pre-rendering ROCKS!!!

earthangell
05-24-2004, 12:04 AM
hmmm..... can we say http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/353.gif? anyway, just got a fresh batch of sugar cookies out of the oven (squee shaped http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif). anyone want?

----------------------------
Lei'arra in URU

To dance is to breathe...to breathe is to live....to live is to dance....

Srikandi
05-24-2004, 02:32 AM
Hmm -- I'm putting on weight just from earthangell's posting! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sri's Relto (http://members.cox.net/srikandi/Uru/)

StarScrap
05-24-2004, 02:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Srikandi:
Ahem -- why shouldn't they have to explain why the people of a given age are white? or have straight hair? Etc etc?

I think this "anglo unless proven otherwise" assumption IS problematic. If we're talking about people not just in various parts of our own world, but on different worlds in possibly different universes, I'd say similar is MORE surprising than different.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wasn't trying to say that everyone should be white unless there was a good reason for them not to be, if that's how it came accross. I was just saying that in the best of circumstances, race/ethnicity should not be very noticeable. I say mixing groups together is great, but not by saying "African? check...next!".

A good example of doing things the right way, in this respect, is The Matrix. Especially in Reloaded there were people of all sorts of backgrounds, and it wasn't strained at all. It flowed in very nicely, and it didn't look like it was trying too hard to be politically correct.

Different does not mean better or worse. It just means NOT THE SAME.

ChaoticCoyote
05-24-2004, 07:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by StarScrap:
I don't want to sound too vehement about political correctness, because I'm not, but I'd just like to point out that "native" and "of color" are two different things. Native Germans are very white, for instance. In fact, Native American is something of a misnomer even, because "native" simply means "born in". I am a native American, even though I am not a Native American.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, you can't win on the political correctness game. For example, my wife descends , in roughly equal measure, from three North American peoples and the European Basques. Culturally, she was raised Hispanic, even though she has no Spanish blood.

The terms "Indian" and "Native American" are both problematic; "indigenous" confuses too many folk, and isn't really accurate either. My wife's Apache ancestors invaded the American Southwest shortly before the Spanish showed up; the Pueblan peoples are probably truly indigenous, then, so the term doesn't apply to the Apaache.

Of course, "Apache" itself is a problem, because it is a Pueblan term for "thief" or "raider." And "Apache" is a general term, broken into several tribes (nations). In general, my wife identifies herself as an Jicarilla Apache -- specifically, T'nde in her native tongue.

It should be noted that the Navajo (who are very closely related ot the Apache) call themselves the Dineh, which is awfully darn similar to "D'ni". Which makes the setting of the Cleft in New Mexico all the more intriguing...

...and given that most "Indians" of my acquaintance have legends of arriving on Earth from underground, after a long stay in a cave.

Well, H.G. Wells once said that there were no original stories, just new ways of telling them. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Different does not mean better or worse. It just means NOT THE SAME.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Truer words have never been spoken.

http://www.coyotegulch.com/ccuru2.png

[This message was edited by ChaoticCoyote on Mon May 24 2004 at 06:57 PM.]

matt myat
05-24-2004, 07:22 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/353.gif nice quotes Chao, which one's yours? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Coronagold
05-24-2004, 07:23 PM
So, pre-Native Americans are responsible for the complex biological terror that decimated the D'ni civilization many moons ago. Are you sure you really want to follow this Native American / D'ni connection any further?

http://img36.photobucket.com/albums/v108/sargem/POTS_copy.jpg

ChaoticCoyote
05-24-2004, 08:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Coronagold:
So, pre-Native Americans are responsible for the complex biological terror that decimated the D'ni civilization many moons ago. Are you sure you really want to follow this Native American / D'ni connection any further? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Back during the beta, we speculated about the connection between "Indians" and the D'ni. From rock art symbols to ancient legends to language, the similarities are rather intriguing.

The Myst series has always been somewhat "New Age" in outlook, and the New Age moevement "borrowed" many concepts from "Indian" cultures. Some native folk take offense at such "cultural theft"; others, like my wife, are just grateful that some members of the dominant society seem to be learning something. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Every story is inspired by what the writer has seen and heard. I see no disrepsect in what Cyan has created.

http://www.coyotegulch.com/ccuru2.png

StarScrap
05-25-2004, 11:09 PM
Hehe, awesome, awesome post about PCness ChaoticCoyote. I'll consider myself pwned. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Different does not mean better or worse. It just means NOT THE SAME.

Eat_My_Shortz
05-26-2004, 07:13 AM
Political correctness takes up soooo much time.

_______________________________________________
The gathered will tell... Cool I'm one of the gathered!

earthangell
05-26-2004, 10:11 AM
yes, but doesn't it make for a "facinating" forum? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

----------------------------
Lei'arra in URU

To dance is to breathe...to breathe is to live....to live is to dance....

T.O.O.O.
06-26-2004, 08:29 AM
If "non-white" peoples aren't appropriate to the setting, there wouldn't be much point in trying to force them in. For example, I don't know of anyone who objected to the lack of "non-whites" in the Lord of the Rings movies - they wouldn't be appropriate to the pseudo-medieval European setting. (Although the really anal-retentive could point to the influence of the Moors, but I'm beginning to lose grasp of the subject here.)

But it's the same thing with the Myst series. If there's a logical reason to include other races, fine. It's enough of a wild coincidence that the D'ni just happen to look like Caucasian humans, but to say there are others who just happen to look like people of other Earth races would be stretching credibility a BIT too far.

************************************************
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My new display name (formerly "The OtherOTHEROperation) comes from this (http://arago4.tn.utwente.nl/stonedead/crosslinks/tv-series/sketches/fc-14/piranha-brothers-frameset.html) sketch....