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View Full Version : Recreating BOB using IL-2FB...



SodBuster43
01-22-2004, 11:44 PM
I popped into a server over at UBI.com that was advertising the "Battle Of Britain" or "BOB" for short as their theme for a map.

The briefing sounded convincing enough; "Historical planes only" was the claim. The briefing went on to say you would be kicked from the server if you did not use historical markings, etc.?

Following is partial list of planes used on this server. This is quite interesting to say the least.

For the UK:
Hurricane's MkI, MkIIB, MkIIC, MkII field mod
Yak-1 (Spitfire)
TB-3 (Assuming Lancaster?)
I-153's M-62 and P
PIIc
B-17G

For Germany:
Bf-109E-4 through Bf-109E-7/Z
He-111H-2 and H-6
Ju-87B-2, D-3 and G-1
Ju-88A-4
Me323

I will not fault the map creator for trying to make a fun map maybe but the map title and briefing need to be brushed up a bit.

After viewing this room I thought it would be interesting to ask the community which planes they would include from IL-2 Forgotten Battles if they were trying to create an HISTORICAL map scenario of the "Battle Of Britain". I have a fairly good idea which planes I would include if attempting an historical map.

It is my understanding that the "Battle Of Britain" ended in October of 1940. Although, the Luftwaffe continued with sporadic attacks on the UK well after this.

I found it interesting that in fact a BF-109E-7 was identified at a crash site in the UK during the month of September, 1940. So one could argue that all of the Bf-109E series planes in FB could be included. The only Hurricane from the list that actually qualifies is the Hurricane MkI. The MkII's came off the assembly lines in December of 1940.

As for bombers, I would include the He-111H-2 and H-6 as both were used during the BOB. The H-5 variant was quite common I have read. The Ju-88A-4 should also qualify as well. Both Blenheim's MkI and MkIV were also used.

Now the aircraft I am not too sure about are the Ju-87 and Bf-110. I guess just to have one on my map I would allow the Ju-87B-2 and go no further. I believe it may have been used. I have read that the Ju-87B-1 was quite common during the BOB. I am, so far, in the dark about the Bf-110. I am still researching this. Maybe some community experts could shed some light on the Bf-110 series aircraft in the BOB.

So, my aircraft list including AI would be as follows:

UK aircraft:
Hurricane MkI
Blenheims MkI and Mk IV

German aircraft:
Bf-109E-4 through E-7/B (not sure about the E-7/Z)
He-111H-2 and H-6
Ju-88A-4
Ju-87B-2 (could pass as Ju-87B-1)
Bf-110C-4 or later (not sure if these qualify)

I am not too concerned about not having a Spitfire in my list. After all the Spit was the glamour baby of the BOB but the Hurricane MkI actually shot down far more aircraft, especially bombers. The Hurricane was the true workhorse of this historic encounter.

So, again, which aircraft from Forgotten Battles would you include in your rendition of the "Battle Of Britain" and why?

[This message was edited by SodBuster43 on Thu January 22 2004 at 10:55 PM.]

[This message was edited by SodBuster43 on Thu January 22 2004 at 10:57 PM.]

SodBuster43
01-22-2004, 11:44 PM
I popped into a server over at UBI.com that was advertising the "Battle Of Britain" or "BOB" for short as their theme for a map.

The briefing sounded convincing enough; "Historical planes only" was the claim. The briefing went on to say you would be kicked from the server if you did not use historical markings, etc.?

Following is partial list of planes used on this server. This is quite interesting to say the least.

For the UK:
Hurricane's MkI, MkIIB, MkIIC, MkII field mod
Yak-1 (Spitfire)
TB-3 (Assuming Lancaster?)
I-153's M-62 and P
PIIc
B-17G

For Germany:
Bf-109E-4 through Bf-109E-7/Z
He-111H-2 and H-6
Ju-87B-2, D-3 and G-1
Ju-88A-4
Me323

I will not fault the map creator for trying to make a fun map maybe but the map title and briefing need to be brushed up a bit.

After viewing this room I thought it would be interesting to ask the community which planes they would include from IL-2 Forgotten Battles if they were trying to create an HISTORICAL map scenario of the "Battle Of Britain". I have a fairly good idea which planes I would include if attempting an historical map.

It is my understanding that the "Battle Of Britain" ended in October of 1940. Although, the Luftwaffe continued with sporadic attacks on the UK well after this.

I found it interesting that in fact a BF-109E-7 was identified at a crash site in the UK during the month of September, 1940. So one could argue that all of the Bf-109E series planes in FB could be included. The only Hurricane from the list that actually qualifies is the Hurricane MkI. The MkII's came off the assembly lines in December of 1940.

As for bombers, I would include the He-111H-2 and H-6 as both were used during the BOB. The H-5 variant was quite common I have read. The Ju-88A-4 should also qualify as well. Both Blenheim's MkI and MkIV were also used.

Now the aircraft I am not too sure about are the Ju-87 and Bf-110. I guess just to have one on my map I would allow the Ju-87B-2 and go no further. I believe it may have been used. I have read that the Ju-87B-1 was quite common during the BOB. I am, so far, in the dark about the Bf-110. I am still researching this. Maybe some community experts could shed some light on the Bf-110 series aircraft in the BOB.

So, my aircraft list including AI would be as follows:

UK aircraft:
Hurricane MkI
Blenheims MkI and Mk IV

German aircraft:
Bf-109E-4 through E-7/B (not sure about the E-7/Z)
He-111H-2 and H-6
Ju-88A-4
Ju-87B-2 (could pass as Ju-87B-1)
Bf-110C-4 or later (not sure if these qualify)

I am not too concerned about not having a Spitfire in my list. After all the Spit was the glamour baby of the BOB but the Hurricane MkI actually shot down far more aircraft, especially bombers. The Hurricane was the true workhorse of this historic encounter.

So, again, which aircraft from Forgotten Battles would you include in your rendition of the "Battle Of Britain" and why?

[This message was edited by SodBuster43 on Thu January 22 2004 at 10:55 PM.]

[This message was edited by SodBuster43 on Thu January 22 2004 at 10:57 PM.]

SodBuster43
01-23-2004, 02:26 AM
No responses yet, bump once maybe.

Dunkelgrun
01-23-2004, 03:14 AM
Here's what you need: Fighter Command, and Luftwaffe / Regia Aeronautica planes that flew over Britain and the Channel only.

Spitfire Mk I
Spitfire Mk II
Bristol Blenheim Fighter http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
Gloster Gladiator
Hurricane Mk.I http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Hurricane Mk.IIA http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
Fairey Fulmar
Defiant Mk I
Grumman Martlet Mk I

Dornier 17 E-2, E-3
Dornier 17 M
Dornier 17 P-1
Dornier 17 U
Dornier 17 Z-1, Z-2, Z-3
Dornier 215 B-1, B-4
Dornier 18
Focke-Wulf 200 C-1
Heinkel 59
Heinkel 111 D
Heinkel 111 P-1, P-2, P-5
Heinkel 111 H-1, H-2, H-3, H-4, H-5 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Heinkel 115
Junkers 87 B-1, B-2 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Junkers 88 A-1, A-5 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
Messerschmitt 109 B
Messerschmitt 109 E-1, E-1/B, E-3, E-4, E-4/B, E-4/N, E-5, E-7 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Messerschmitt 110 C-1, C-2, C-4, C-4B, C-5, D-0, D-1 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Fiat BR.20
Fiat CR.42
Fiat G.50 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif What you have
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif What you can use
Bold What you really need
Italics Did not see combat

Cheers!

http://www.uploadit.org/igmusapa/tft2.jpg

[This message was edited by Dunkelgrun on Fri January 23 2004 at 03:52 AM.]

MustangWZI
01-23-2004, 03:54 AM
What map were they using? I ask because I'm curious what people are using to recreate the English Channel. I recently tried to build my own BoB mission using the normandy map and had mixed results. We REALLY need the expanded English Channel in FB. Guess that makes me the first English Channel Whiner.

http://server4.uploadit.org/files2/140104-sig5.JPG
Like the moon over
The day, my genious and brawn
Are lost on these fools
~Haiku

SodBuster43
01-23-2004, 04:23 AM
They were using the map with two larger islands. The one for air racing I think.

SodBuster43
01-23-2004, 04:27 AM
Interesting list Dunkelgrun. Amazing how historical accounts can differ somewhat. I believe your list though. Sounds complete.

Dunkelgrun
01-23-2004, 04:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SodBuster43:
Interesting list Dunkelgrun. Amazing how historical accounts can differ somewhat. I believe your list though. Sounds complete.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Plane list from 'The Narrow Margin - The Battle of Britain' by Derek Wood & Derek Dempster. The book's getting on a bit now, (it was used as reference for the BoB film), but is still sound.
Cheers!

http://www.uploadit.org/igmusapa/tft2.jpg

Dunkelgrun
01-23-2004, 05:00 AM
Btw, I tried creating a BoB mission using the Blenheim I for the Blenheim Fighter. Apart from the fact that the Blenheim I has hardly any armament, they won't actually attack the German bombers. Anything classed as a bomber in the sim will behave like one, with only one exception: Set yourself up to command a squadron with more than flight in it. Assign the flights that don't contain you to bombers. Then, when under attack, hit the 'Anyone help me!' command and see what happens. The whole bunch of Ju87s, He111s, whathaveyou, start wheeling around the sky attempting bat-turns, loops and all sorts of misbehaviour. Hilarious! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Of course they all end up crashing into each other or getting shot down, but great fun to watch.
Cheers!

http://www.uploadit.org/igmusapa/tft2.jpg

SodBuster43
01-23-2004, 12:16 PM
I like a man with a sense of humor Dunkelgrun. Sometimes I have to laugh at the AI myself. Despite the obvious shortcomings of the AI at times, I am still amazed with what programmers are able to do these days.

A couple things that AI do that amuse me are their uncanny ability to steal your kill http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif and the times when they make a bad maneuver http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif and they themselves crash http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Dunkelgrun
01-23-2004, 02:18 PM
Look at today's development update: He59, He115, Fiat G.50 and Blenheim Fighter! Plus Blenheim IV, which along with earlier pics of the Wellington means that there's going to be bombers as well. Not sure how this fits in with Oleg's stated max 20 a/c inc 10-12 flyables, (I think I remembered that right), but boy oh boy is BoB going to be a joy to fly around in. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Just plain aaarrgh that we have to wait at least another year plus (my bet is more than that) for it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
But when it comes...... Yippee!
Cheers!

http://www.uploadit.org/igmusapa/tft2.jpg

BaldieJr
01-23-2004, 05:36 PM
If Oleg intends to model the whole damned eglish channel, then I demand that he models swimming in 'first person'.

I have a dream.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

tttiger
01-23-2004, 06:17 PM
The only British fighter we have now that fits in the BoB is the MkI Hurri, which is horribly underpowered. The Mk II with the Merlin XX engine can compete but the MkI is hopeless in FB. I stay out of the BoB/Battle of France Coops for just that reason. In the coops at least, you will notice the host in a Battle of France mission always flies LW. What does that tell you? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

All the available emils can be there. The E-7 really is nothing but an E-4 with a rack for a drop tank or bomb, as I understand it.

The 110 certainly belongs there as an easy target. BoB is where they discovered Adolph's favorite fighter was a piece of junk. They needed 109s to escort the escorts.

Ditto the Stuka. It was definitely there. And without fighter protection it was dead meat.

Until the Spit Mk I shows up, or the Hurri MkI get's a better model, Battle of Britain and Battle of France scenarios aren't much fun, especially if you fly Allied, IMHO.

My $0.02.

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."