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A4einboy
04-15-2017, 11:41 PM
it is impossible to block let alone parry a pk's light attacks. how could you guys have missed that when making the game ? devs try playing the game on ps4 and you will see what im talking about . is there anyway to make a small patch to fix her light attacks? thanks devs for reading

CandleInTheDark
04-15-2017, 11:44 PM
1.06 patch, due in three weeks on console, they are making small adjustments (their words,no more detail than that) on pk lights.

Lyskir
04-15-2017, 11:58 PM
i hope so, real pk mains dont need light spam

CandleInTheDark
04-15-2017, 11:59 PM
i hope so, real pk mains dont need light spam

Rep 4 pk, no spam.

Dr-KaBoom
04-16-2017, 12:08 AM
Also slow Valks lights. This class has too much going for it and when the cheese free damage classes get nerfed this one will be top tier.

UbiNoty
04-16-2017, 12:09 AM
^ What candle said. :D

DrExtrem
04-16-2017, 12:11 AM
1.06 patch, due in three weeks on console, they are making small adjustments (their words,no more detail than that) on pk lights.

Yeah ... but based on pc data and on pc, the speed of the attack is not a big issue.

Its not only the pk. Valk, orochi, kensei, zerker ... Its ageneral problem of very fast attack chains and low stamina consumption of unfinished light attack chains and light attacks.

Dizzy4213
04-16-2017, 12:39 AM
Already said this in another thread but the fix is quite simple. Make her second light the same speed as the first. Move the heavy from the end of the chain and stick it right in the middle. Instead of it being (LLH) it will now be (LHL) removing the spam entirely.

cragar212
04-16-2017, 12:54 AM
I have 200+ Hrs into this game with a duel win rate of 75% +. I can literally die to a pk with 1 hr play experience who just spams lights in random directions.

I killed a prestige30 pk today because I guessed correctly which direction to parry a couple times and died to a lvl 15ish because I didn't.

I know maining raider doesn't help but this crap really turns me off of this game. I really hope this next change does something.

kweassa1917
04-16-2017, 06:12 AM
Don't need to slow it down -- just give me this and I'll be satisfied:

- the defending player gains enough frame advantage on a successful block to immediately use a light of his/her own
- a successful block of PK light, will give you frame advantage enough to counter the next incoming PK light with a stopping hit


I know this can be tricky since everyone has a different base light attack speed, but really I'm wanting that change because...

1. I don't want the PK players to suffer and lose a reliable attack method
2. I don't want the PK to be "punished" at the levels of receiving -- yet another -- "guaranteed damage" situation.
3. All I want, is to be able to succeed in the block, and then throw a quick attack of my own to force the PK into the defensive and TAKE THE INITIATIVE


Like, I don't really have good reflexes, and basically my defense relies on just experience of the class and the situation. So if a good PK closes in with fast light spams I fully expect to be hit 2~3 times. But what makes this overly difficult and painful (and this, "whine-worthy") is that even if you "read" the PK correctly and successfully block it just at the knick of time, NOTHING CHANGES AFTERWARDS.

I dunno, maybe classes with superior block have it easier, but for those that don't have such a thing, a successful block doesn't mean anything because right after it happens the PK still holds the initiative. Whatever attempt you try will more than likely be stopped short from the next incoming light attack despite the fact you blocked the previous one. So knowing that fact, people become hesitant to make the next move -- so the PK is still holds all the cards.

Blow some stamina to do a back-roll to try and distance yourself, "reset" the fight in hopes of beginning anew, but a fat lot of good that does when the PK is already the fastest moving, furthest dodging class complete with a gap-closer lunge move. PK sees the backroll, just forward dodge and lunge, right back into the same situation, holds all cards, opponent pressed into defensive and psychologically repressed and passive.


No sir, I don't want no guaranteed damage.

I just want to be able to block the PK light, and then throw my light to retaliate. If the PK just mindly spams, my light will stop the attack and deal damage. So essentially, a successful block of a PK light will force the fight into a state where you have a slight "mind-game advantage" over the PK.

I mean, come on!

How is it that my class probably weighs full 80 lbs. heavier than the PK, stands probably 10" taller than the PK, swings a weapon 5' longer and 5lbs heavier than the PK's, and yet I'm more disadvantaged than the PK in frames and unable to regain initiative when I defend that scrawny swing of a short sword??? :D

SJW_Kriegor
04-16-2017, 07:49 AM
I totally agree with kweassa1917's solution, at least on PC (apparently, on console, fast attacks hit you before you know it).
Making her second light as fast as her first will deny her the possibility to combo from a light. I will explain you why but it's pretty advance stuff:

Currently it's very hard to parry a pk's first light despite the fact many players have enough experience to time such parry. This is because of pk's moveset. She can start with a light but she can also start with a heavy (or also a zone in an opposite direction). Because you have to react quick it's very difficult to guess right if it's a light or a heavy. A parry timed for a light will expose the defending player if it was in fact a heavy or for some heroes/some sides a heavy canceled into a gb.

I'm not saying this is bad though, the more you'll play, the more you'll see For Honor' problems are not related to spam (it's in fact quite weak compared to your average fighting game) but it's opposite: camping. Very good pk players (you can watch tournaments if you want to see some) are very defensive, quickly approaching to land a quick attack, a zone or to bait something then retreating immediately after. This is because reckless spam would lead them to being parried again and again until they fall.

Now why 2nd light has to be faster than first light? Because pk doesn't have a first light into heavy combo. So if she does something chained into her first light, her adversary KNOWS it's a second light thus no risk to parry it at all. That makes the only chance for this light to hit the target to be quick enough in order to overcome her opponent's reaction. And the thing is you can prepare your parry as soon as the first light as been dealt (or not dealt) with. So usually it's less stressful on your reflexes than the first light attack, because again, you're sure of what it is and you are prepared to parry it before it even starts (you don't know a thing about when your opponent will launch her first light, a lot of damage inflicted at a certain level is thanks to some kind of poking).

This explanation does not concern just the pk. All heroes can't use predictable combos at a certain level because of this. Only combos you will see are the ones with mix up options. Either the game need all combos to branch in at least two directions at every step or it needs the predictable combos to come out faster. As fast as pk's most famous one.

I would also like to add: don't be afraid to try a parry against pk's second light. Even if you're not sure about the direction, just go random and time an heavy somewhere. You won't take extra damage for that and a successful parry will compensate for the times you guessed wrong. Especially if you're playing Raider or Lawbringer.

DrExtrem
04-16-2017, 08:51 AM
Two things should be dealt with.

The second pk light is basically a guaranteed, if you are not a bot. It is basically too fast to block in time.

Second thing is the console specific issue.

On console, all light attacks and many other timers need to be altered. Light attacks are too fast to react to. The light attack parry indicator is only two frames long - sometimes, you can not even see the flicker, because it is too short and the human brain filtered it out, because it looks more like an optical artefact, rather than an important motion. Sometimes, it is only one frame long, because of overlapping frames.

SendRickPics
04-16-2017, 10:09 AM
Two things should be dealt with.

The second pk light is basically a guaranteed, if you are not a bot. It is basically too fast to block in time.

Second thing is the console specific issue.

On console, all light attacks and many other timers need to be altered. Light attacks are too fast to react to. The light attack parry indicator is only two frames long - sometimes, you can not even see the flicker, because it is too short and the human brain filtered it out, because it looks more like an optical artefact, rather than an important motion. Sometimes, it is only one frame long, because of overlapping frames.

Deal with the Valkyrie while you're at it then. She's the new queen of light spam on consoles, and she's far more potent since she has thirty different ways to crowd control you.

Lumina-US
04-16-2017, 10:38 AM
1.06 patch, due in three weeks on console, they are making small adjustments (their words,no more detail than that) on pk lights.1.06 in 3 weeks on console? - excuse me but i loled! (and pretty hard at that)

Considering we're still waiting on 1.05 out to be due on XB1/PS4, since almost two weeks, we we'll likely see 1.06 there in 6-7 weeks at best!

DrExtrem
04-16-2017, 10:48 AM
Deal with the Valkyrie while you're at it then. She's the new queen of light spam on consoles, and she's far more potent since she has thirty different ways to crowd control you.

The valkyrie, nobushi, kensei (lights), zerker, orochi ... they all have serious spamming potential.

That's why I wrote, that it is a general problem of very fast light attacks.

Gray360UK
04-16-2017, 12:06 PM
1.06 in 3 weeks on console? - excuse me but i loled! (and pretty hard at that)

Considering we're still waiting on 1.05 out to be due on XB1/PS4, since almost two weeks, we we'll likely see 1.06 there in 6-7 weeks at best!

They published this as their schedule, they didn't do that for 1.05. I assume they have some reason to think 1.06 is going to be rolled out then. They didn't make false promises with 1.05 so I can't see why they would start with 1.06

Lumina-US
04-16-2017, 01:59 PM
They published this as their schedule, they didn't do that for 1.05. I assume they have some reason to think 1.06 is going to be rolled out then. They didn't make false promises with 1.05 so I can't see why they would start with 1.06I'm not saying Ubisoft is the one to blame for, since the certification thingy for consoles is on Microsoft's/Sony's side - but, that doesn't change the fact, that all console players have to wait much longer for Patch 1.06 than PCers do.

So as much as i dislike it, i'll be right on that, as we have yet to see 1.05 on our platforms - you'll see.

CandleInTheDark
04-16-2017, 02:03 PM
1.06 in 3 weeks on console? - excuse me but i loled! (and pretty hard at that)

Considering we're still waiting on 1.05 out to be due on XB1/PS4, since almost two weeks, we we'll likely see 1.06 there in 6-7 weeks at best!

Source that it won't be three weeks outside of speculation based on the current patch? Because I have a reasonably good source it will be.

Gray360UK
04-16-2017, 02:04 PM
I'm not saying Ubisoft is the one to blame for, since the certification thingy for consoles is on Microsoft's/Sony's side - but, that doesn't change the fact, that all console players have to wait much longer for Patch 1.06 than PCers do.

So as much as i dislike it, i'll be right on that, as we have yet to see 1.05 on our platforms - you'll see.

Oh yeah I know all that, but so do they ... they are well aware of the delay they just had with 1.05 on consoles. People have been asking them about it every day. That's why I can't believe they would put a large infographic picture up on the Warriors Den livestream that says PS4 and XB1 will be getting 1.06 just 1 week after PC, unless they have reason to think that, maybe it's already been submitted for approval? /shrug

Like you said though, we shall see ... maybe I am just feeling optimistic today ;)

Herbstlicht
04-16-2017, 02:35 PM
The valkyrie, nobushi, kensei (lights), zerker, orochi ... they all have serious spamming potential.
That's why I wrote, that it is a general problem of very fast light attacks.


Besides the valk, the others you listed are relatively slow. Warden is faster for example and kenseis side lights even get a speed buff with 1.05 - what seems fine to me. I would not say i can parry all these lights consisfengly, but i can parry them. Blocking is even way easier.

When moving to bots, i can block valk with kensei, but can't do so with nobushi. So guess valk might only be a tiny bit too fast, but besides her and peacekeeper, the others seem fine.

DrExtrem
04-16-2017, 02:57 PM
Maybe not fine but not as evil, as pk and valk either.

Still ... Light spam is too effective in relation to the effort needed.

And parrying lights on console is a horrible thing to do.

Lumina-US
04-16-2017, 07:19 PM
Source that it won't be three weeks outside of speculation based on the current patch? Because I have a reasonably good source it will be.Learn to read pls, i said "likely" so ofc it's all speculation, coming from what we have been seeing until now.
I hope i'm wrong on my "expected" time frame though, but i have a pretty (permanent) feeling, that i won't be.

Capoupacap
04-17-2017, 01:43 AM
There is actually two issues (based on my console experience):

1) Blocking light attack is very difficult because you're warned from an attack just before being hitted. I don't think it should be changed because we have to accept fast light attacker are the only opener in this game.

2) Regardless of you succeed a block or the light combo went to it's end, the light attack can be launched again before the opponent can do anything (specially the orochi with double light). That's actually the real deal !!!!


A single advice to A4einboy:

Generally, PK play some light amassment and doge back. It's perfect to place a GB...

ArlianDeBias
04-17-2017, 04:08 AM
I feel like PK is going to be continually nerfed and end up going from a decent hero all the way to a craptastic one with no actual kit.

PK's already lackluster kit is supplemented by her fast lights and bleed. Take these away and she really doesn't have anything that can deal with other characters.

But with a community which isn't very good at the game and just wants a way to cheese every character, PK is inevitably going to end up nerfed to kingdom come.

In the immortal words of Donald Trump: "Sad".

Felis_Menari
04-17-2017, 04:32 AM
I feel like PK is going to be continually nerfed and end up going from a decent hero all the way to a ****ty one with no actual kit.

PK's already lackluster kit is supplemented by her fast lights and bleed. Take these away and she really doesn't have anything that can deal with other characters.

But with a community which isn't very good at the game and just wants a way to cheese every character, PK is inevitably going to end up nerfed to kingdom come.

In the immortal words of Donald Trump: "Sad".

PK lights are a significant problem on consoles in general. But the second light in her light chain...there is no reacting to it. You guess the direction and hope you get lucky.

RoosterIlluzion
04-17-2017, 07:55 AM
I thought so too, but she's not as bad as PK. Her shield bash, heavy spam needs a cha.GE though. Maybe add more stamina consumption for shield bash, so it can only be spammed twice.

Buyukbaba
04-17-2017, 09:36 AM
I feel like PK is going to be continually nerfed and end up going from a decent hero all the way to a craptastic one with no actual kit.

PK's already lackluster kit is supplemented by her fast lights and bleed. Take these away and she really doesn't have anything that can deal with other characters.

But with a community which isn't very good at the game and just wants a way to cheese every character, PK is inevitably going to end up nerfed to kingdom come.

In the immortal words of Donald Trump: "Sad".

Let me try to guess, hmm, you are PK main and playing on console, right?