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Gray360UK
04-14-2017, 10:53 PM
Watching a player, a special guest on an official For Honor Warriors Den livestream, sitting next to one of the Developers, do nothing but abuse PK light attack spam made me equal parts angry and sad.

I seriously hope the Devs wake up now and pay attention to what is wrong with the PK and what makes people hate the class so much.

Not Sidestep Strikes as nerfed in patch 1.05 but LIGHT ATTACK SPAM. How many times do we have to say it?

This was the only thing their special guest PK player did, over and over. There was no mobility, no timing, no positioning, no skill ... just constant attempts to run into the Warlords face and hit him with lights, over and over. This is a strategy that normally only a heavy class could risk, in your face, toe to toe ... but this is a fragile Assassin class. What allows this fragile Assassin to stand in your face and win rounds? Being able to overwhelm you with light attacks so fast that you can do nothing about it. This totally breaks the playstyle of the class.

It's not being played as a highly mobile Assassin that needs to outmanoeuvre it's opponent, it's being played like this:

http://pa1.narvii.com/6119/cf19d574e3cb19108629cfea3756448acd50b1a5_hq.gif

To be clear, in the official Warriors Den livestream on Twitch, the Warlord vs PK duel we saw:

No Guardbreak into triple stab
No Guardnreak into double stab and kick away
No Sidestep Strikes
No Riposting Stab
No Deep Gouge
No Dashing Thrust

What we did see:

3 rounds of LIGHT ATTACK SPAM.

Many people hate PKs because this is all they do, spam lights, but you can see from the list above what else the PK has in their Moveset and it's criminal that such a good class with such a variety of attacks is able to be so badly abused.

Worse still, is that this abuse has been allowed to continue so long. What worries me most, is that if patch 1.05 is anything to go by, they are looking for fixes in all the wrong places.

The community is united on what is wrong with the PK. The community is never united on anything so that tells you something ...

Open your eyes please For Honor devs, this has to stop. I am a PK main (nearly Rep 8) and this kind of stuff makes me embarrassed to be one.

ShadowFetus
04-14-2017, 10:57 PM
I didn't watch the stream, did the PK win?

Dry.Fish
04-14-2017, 11:06 PM
Petemoo VS some other guy, Pete lost first round then destroyed him the next 3 rounds.

Gray360UK
04-14-2017, 11:07 PM
I didn't watch the stream, did the PK win?

No, funnily enough, and I am glad of that. The PK won the first round, the 2nd went easily to the Warlord, the 3rd was very close and the Warlord won the 4th.

The Warlord did what Warlords do, of course, hid behind his shield and poked the PK till it died.

The problem wasn't so much who won, but how the PK was played. It was just so sad to watch, and done sitting right next to Roman. The feed down the side of the Twitch stream lit up with shouts about light spam and hating PKs, and they had a point. It was all the guy did.

SlashingElbow
04-14-2017, 11:09 PM
i cant stand the faces of the idiots on the multiplayer page in the game so i could never get my self to watch this ''Warriors'' den stuff.. They should just fix the damn connection issuesand stop ***in us around

CandleInTheDark
04-14-2017, 11:18 PM
I have to confess I listened in case they said anything else but I didn't watch it exactly because the guy who played her did the Hero School with the peacekeeper and the main thing he went on about was the speed of lights and the zone flicker.So it sounds like pretty much exactly why I didn't want to watch it

cragar212
04-14-2017, 11:28 PM
I think they probly asked them not to exploit since the pk didn't really use ZA. So pk coulda even been cheesier haha.

On a side note I always pictured pete moo as a big 30 y/o asian dude goin by his voice

UbiJurassic
04-14-2017, 11:56 PM
Excellent use of a Kenshiro gif, Gray. :cool:

We did say in today's Warrior's Den that in Title Update 1.06 we will be looking to make a small adjustment to Peacekeeper's light attack. We aren't calling it a nerf, but if light spam remains a problem afterwards, we will look to make further adjustments.

CrimsonWolf753
04-15-2017, 12:02 AM
Watching a player, a special guest on an official For Honor Warriors Den livestream, sitting next to one of the Developers, do nothing but abuse PK light attack spam made me equal parts angry and sad.

I seriously hope the Devs wake up now and pay attention to what is wrong with the PK and what makes people hate the class so much.

Not Sidestep Strikes as nerfed in patch 1.05 but LIGHT ATTACK SPAM. How many times do we have to say it?

This was the only thing their special guest PK player did, over and over. There was no mobility, no timing, no positioning, no skill ... just constant attempts to run into the Warlords face and hit him with lights, over and over. This is a strategy that normally only a heavy class could risk, in your face, toe to toe ... but this is a fragile Assassin class. What allows this fragile Assassin to stand in your face and win rounds? Being able to overwhelm you with light attacks so fast that you can do nothing about it. This totally breaks the playstyle of the class.

It's not being played as a highly mobile Assassin that needs to outmanoeuvre it's opponent, it's being played like this:

http://pa1.narvii.com/6119/cf19d574e3cb19108629cfea3756448acd50b1a5_hq.gif

To be clear, in the official Warriors Den livestream on Twitch, the Warlord vs PK duel we saw:

No Guardbreak into triple stab
No Guardnreak into double stab and kick away
No Sidestep Strikes
No Riposting Stab
No Deep Gouge
No Dashing Thrust

What we did see:

3 rounds of LIGHT ATTACK SPAM.

Many people hate PKs because this is all they do, spam lights, but you can see from the list above what else the PK has in their Moveset and it's criminal that such a good class with such a variety of attacks is able to be so badly abused.

Worse still, is that this abuse has been allowed to continue so long. What worries me most, is that if patch 1.05 is anything to go by, they are looking for fixes in all the wrong places.

The community is united on what is wrong with the PK. The community is never united on anything so that tells you something ...

Open your eyes please For Honor devs, this has to stop. I am a PK main (nearly Rep 8) and this kind of stuff makes me embarrassed to be one.

The PK got ripped to shreds in that fight, utterly obliterated, embarrassed even. Please, are you kidding me? Petemoo adjusted his playstyle a bit and mauled the PK.

Gray360UK
04-15-2017, 12:14 AM
I have to confess I listened in case they said anything else but I didn't watch it exactly because the guy who played him did the Hero School with the peacekeeper and the main thing he went on about was the speed of lights and the zone flicker.So it sounds like pretty much exactly why I didn't want to watch it

It was awful to watch. :(

Okay, maybe the guy playing the PK is just a cheap scrub who loves to use ezmode options, but the problem is, as long as that is a choice, cheap scrubs everywhere will continue to do it. I'm just hoping seeing it right before his eyes like that will wake Roman up a bit. He told us the data shows that there is a problem with the PKs Sidestep Strikes, leading to Patch 1.05 which fixed things that aren't wrong with the PK and addressed nothing that is. Then this player demonstrates what we knew already, Sidestep Strikes are not the problem. The player didn't even use them.

It's got to hurt to see someone take a character you created to be a mobile fast attacker with a varied moveset and abandon 6 of the abilities in that Moveset in favour of pressing one button for 3 rounds. Let's hope it causes a re-think.

Gray360UK
04-15-2017, 12:17 AM
The PK got ripped to shreds in that fight, utterly obliterated, embarrassed even. Please, are you kidding me? Petemoo adjusted his playstyle a bit and mauled the PK.

The outcome isn't the point, although 'ripped to shreds' is a bit silly seeing as the Warlord lost the first round and nearly the 3rd.

The point is, the class was being played with a single button press, and that is what the community hate about the PK. That it didn't work on Petemoo, who I assume is very good at the game, is not the issue. That you can win a round and nearly 2 by pressing one button, against Petemoo, is.

I don't have to argue the case for PK light spam being a problem, that's pretty much a given throughout the community.

Gray360UK
04-15-2017, 12:23 AM
Excellent use of a Kenshiro gif, Gray. :cool:

We did say in today's Warrior's Den that in Title Update 1.06 we will be looking to make a small adjustment to Peacekeeper's light attack. We aren't calling it a nerf, but if light spam remains a problem afterwards, we will look to make further adjustments.

Haha cheers, I like my gifs ;)

I know you guys are looking into it, it's frustrating to see a class being played so badly so often, even in your Twitch streams, but hey ... if it gets attention and gets us looking in the right places then it's all good I guess. I just hope there are some things about the PK that are left un-nerfed on the road to fixing Light Attack Spam, otherwise by the time that gets addressed, there won't be anything else left that works :p

CandleInTheDark
04-15-2017, 12:26 AM
Haha cheers, I like my gifs ;)

I know you guys are looking into it, it's frustrating to see a class being played so badly so often, even in your Twitch streams, but hey ... if it gets attention and gets us looking in the right places then it's all good I guess. I just hope there are some things about the PK that are left un-nerfed on the road to fixing Light Attack Spam, otherwise by the time that gets addressed, there won't be anything else left that works :p

Except removing her helm and proclaiming Ni.

CrimsonWolf753
04-15-2017, 12:29 AM
You made it sound like the PK did very well against the Warlord, which isn't true. The Warlord bested him, 3-1, after an adjustment in play after the first round. A PK "light spammer" is easy pickings for a decent Warlord.
That's all I wanted to address.

Gray360UK
04-15-2017, 12:37 AM
You made it sound like the PK did very well against the Warlord.

I really didn't :)

I just re-read it to make sure, and all I did was make it very clear that the PK did nothing but press one button / abuse the class. You could assume that meant the PK did well, but I never said anything of the sort. Like I said, it's more how sad it is to watch, how much hate it generates in the community, and how cheap it is, that bothers me.

Also, against many players, it does allow PKs to do very well, that is the sad truth of the matter.

This is why PKs were banned from the MLG Tournament.

Regardless, winning a round by pressing one button is an issue. Even Warden shoulder bash and Warlord Headbutt requires 2 buttons ;)

CrimsonWolf753
04-15-2017, 12:51 AM
WThis is a strategy that normally only a heavy class could risk, in your face, toe to toe ... but this is a fragile Assassin class. What allows this fragile Assassin to stand in your face and win rounds? Being able to overwhelm you with light attacks so fast that you can do nothing about it. This totally breaks the playstyle of the class.




I really didn't :)

That's the bit I thought was a little misleading, that's all chap.
He didn't get rewarded though did he for his one button mash special?
They were playing on pc though, don't really know if the higher frame rates give you more time to react or not, kind of confused about that myself.

If you remember correctly it was a sidestep dodge attack that finished the warlord in the first round anyway.

IMMA_MAILGEYMER
04-15-2017, 12:59 AM
So the warlord won by being what he was meant to be: a COUNTER ATTACKER. Peacekeeper is a counter attacker too, but she's more effective on the offense since her lights are faster than others and i don't blame that guy for doing so because there's no trade in fights, (only warlord and shugoki can actually "trade") you can safely attack only when the opponent is defensless due to a parry or pinned to a wall. Since defense has no penalty whatsoever attacking equals death if the defender can react. Did someone addressed this at all? Or maybe they're happy with the unlock """""TECH""""" and softfeint cancel?

CrimsonWolf753
04-15-2017, 01:01 AM
Extheleon? Is that you?

IMMA_MAILGEYMER
04-15-2017, 01:19 AM
Extheleon? Is that you?
Oh cm on be serious xD(i just stole his catchphrase because i'm an *******). We're trying to make some constructive criticism before what's left of the 3800 pc player base will be gone.

CrimsonWolf753
04-15-2017, 01:36 AM
Lol. Hopefully the new characters coming out will bring some players back and by then they'll have sorted out the connectivity issues.

Gray360UK
04-15-2017, 01:40 AM
They were playing on pc though, don't really know if the higher frame rates give you more time to react or not, kind of confused about that myself.

Good point, it is stated that the situation is considerably worse on consoles. I wouldn't know. I am on console, only know what it is like there.

What I am getting at is a general concept problem with the class, and the high level of abuse that fast light spam allows. The fact some can overcome this abuse is irrelevant to me. The fact that tournaments are banning this class only, a class that has a very varied moveset, because players are doing so well by using only one attack does bother me. It's considered a no skill high spam class because of this. It's hated because of this. And the duel I am talking about was full of this.

I could re-watch it and work out what % of attacks that made it through the Warlords defence were lights. I can't be bothered to do so, but I'm willing to bet 90%+ would be about right. The position of the PK throughout the duel is right in the Warlords face, which I already said I think is totally against the intended playstyle of the class.

Realistically I can't decide how the class should be, maybe Roman was watching it thinking ... 'Cool! Do another light! And do another light! Awesome! Now do another light!' ;)

CaptainPwnet
04-15-2017, 01:41 AM
Not sure why some people won't be satisfied until viable characters are nerfed into the ground and useless like the other 66% of the cast of characters. Only thing that needs to be changed is guard stance switch speed. If you play on console it may be different, but i'm sorry, you have to play in 30 fps and thus reaction based gaming is going to suffer. Pretty much just have to deal with it or get a PC.

Other than that you talk about light spam, well lets look at other viable characters. WL headbutt spam, conq shield bash spam, warden shoulder mixup spam, shugoki oni charge spam. Now som eless viable characters. LB shove spam, orochi top light/zone spam. It's like you think this game has very deep mechanics and extensive movelists, it doesn't. Compared to an actual fighting game this game has little depth and is mainly reaction based. You're just complaining about one characters viable tactics that you can't deal with cause you choose to come and whine to get something nerfed to your tastes instead of getting better.

For the record I don't even play PK, in fact I main nobu and now LB, 2 slow guard switch speed chars and yes it can be frustrating but characters need to be offensively viable or else you get the same old boring staring contest this game offers in the defensive meta.

Nerfing or even buffing characters at this point is mostly pointless. The problem lies withing the core mechanics of the game, most things are too easily blocked which means they are too easily parried. Attack chains are useless since a light attack even on block reverts the characters to a neutral state every time. Heavy attacks are pretty much useless outside guaranteed punishes and feints. Parry is far too rewarding. You screwed up from the start by designing the game with defense at the forefront, time to bite the bullet and make major changes instead of the useless buffs we got last patch lol.

CrimsonWolf753
04-15-2017, 01:47 AM
I'll give you that though, i don't think it was intended that the PK should be toe to toe throwing lights as a viable tactic. I think they gave her faster lights so she could zip in hit a light and zip out quickly.
All i just wanted to pointed out was the PK got punished for that tactic in the end, which is good, because she shouldn't be played like that anyway.
The bit about Roman was funny though, lol.

CrimsonWolf753
04-15-2017, 01:58 AM
Only thing that needs to be changed is guard stance switch speed. If you play on console it may be different, but i'm sorry, you have to play in 30 fps and thus reaction based gaming is going to suffer. Pretty much just have to deal with it or get a PC.



Could you elaborate a bit on the relation between fps and reaction time?
Greater fps = more reaction time?
Or is there just more of a visual motion of the strike vs less fps?

Gray360UK
04-15-2017, 02:05 AM
Not sure why some people won't be satisfied until viable characters are nerfed into the ground and useless like the other 66% of the cast of characters. Only thing that needs to be changed is guard stance switch speed. If you play on console it may be different, but i'm sorry, you have to play in 30 fps and thus reaction based gaming is going to suffer. Pretty much just have to deal with it or get a PC..

Nope that's just an idiotic statement. The console playerbase is 10x that of the PC one when you combine PS4 and XB1. The console playerbase was in the hundreds of thousands when the PC playerbase was in the tens of thousands. It's a little hard to accurately say what the difference is now of course, but popular opinion is that there's about 5000 of you PC master race people left ;)

The rest was idiotic too, as I am a PK main (Rep 8) and even without knowing my stance from my previous posts, it's pretty clear that I want the class respected and used to it's full potential, rather than being abused by no skill one button pressers while the Developers nerf the wrong things. Needing to be offensively viable is fine, being able to break the defining features of the class and win with a single button press is not. You've assumed whine, and you've assumed inability to cope, neither are the case. I am the PK. I am not the one complaining, the community hate PKs, and tournaments ban them. Again, I am the PK and I, and several other PK mains with integrity who are prepared to admit there is something very wrong in PK land, are trying to make sure the right things get fixed.

If you don't play PK then you are talking from a positon of ignorance, and you are missing the part where the class actually does have far superior moves that require more skill, timing and positioning to use. Instead of using those, people are pressing one button because its so easy to do. Again, this is why PK gets banned.

If you want to argue that everything in the game is cheap spam and that means cheap spam is okay, that's up to you.

Gray360UK
04-15-2017, 02:07 AM
I think they gave her faster lights so she could zip in hit a light and zip out quickly.


Exactly, that's my point :)



The bit about Roman was funny though, lol

Haha cheers ;)

suboptiml
04-15-2017, 02:46 AM
Excellent use of a Kenshiro gif, Gray. :cool:

We did say in today's Warrior's Den that in Title Update 1.06 we will be looking to make a small adjustment to Peacekeeper's light attack. We aren't calling it a nerf, but if light spam remains a problem afterwards, we will look to make further adjustments.

Speed of her lights, their high damage, her fast recovery and the speed of her zone attack is what is making her OP and unfun to fight against. Until the devs recognize this, she's going to remain OP and unfun to fight against.

UbiJurassic
04-15-2017, 02:55 AM
Speed of her lights, their high damage, her fast recovery and the speed of her zone attack is what is making her OP and unfun to fight against. Until the devs recognize this, she's going to remain OP and unfun to fight against.

We have already adjusted the zone attack slightly and have the upcoming change to the light attack. After the latter change is made, we will continue to monitor PK and everyone's feedback. We don't want to nerf her too hard and have another Valkyrie problem.

Dark.Knights
04-15-2017, 03:04 AM
I main Lawbringer, I can't block most of the hero include Warlord light spamming. The main problem is Lawbriger guard stance change are damn slow.

CandleInTheDark
04-15-2017, 03:25 AM
If you don't play PK then you are talking from a positon of ignorance, and you are missing the part where the class actually does have far superior moves that require more skill, timing and positioning to use. Instead of using those, people are pressing one button because its so easy to do. Again, this is why PK gets banned.

It's also why people are seeing skilful use of the PK and posting it as 'evidence of everything that is wrong with her' >.> as amusing as that was. People can't tell the difference any more.


We have already adjusted the zone attack slightly and have the upcoming change to the light attack. After the latter change is made, we will continue to monitor PK and everyone's feedback. We don't want to nerf her too hard and have another Valkyrie problem.

Yeah I get that you wouldn't want to go too far at once because I suspect if you did you wouldn't be able to buff her for a good long while without getting backlash, you only have to look at what happened when you fixed her deflect so that it worked as intended and when you re-buffed the valk herself. Some of us just feel that the first nerfs not only didn't help the problem that makes her toxic to the community but made it worse. Myself, and this is only my opinion, I would be more in favour of having her capability to spam heavily nerfed in favour of keeping the deflect buff and rolling back the sidedodge nerf, or some way behind that, having as someone else suggested, the second attack in the chain be a bleed attack, if they did that I would suggest bleed at the level of where the heavy to light cancel is now and increasing that one since it takes more skill and timing to pull off thus giving more incentive to try for that one.

SendRickPics
04-15-2017, 03:39 AM
Excellent use of a Kenshiro gif, Gray. :cool:

We did say in today's Warrior's Den that in Title Update 1.06 we will be looking to make a small adjustment to Peacekeeper's light attack. We aren't calling it a nerf, but if light spam remains a problem afterwards, we will look to make further adjustments.

How about you look at her entire kit while you're at it? Her longest attack chain is light-light-heavy, and her bleed has been nerfed half to death. Her dodge-heavy was nerfed too. Point is, that you're actively and indirectly encouraging players who play as a PK to light spam.

Furthermore without light attacks, she really has no way to open up an opponent. Her entire playstyle is to quickly sting an opponent to death, and she can't effectively do so. Hell even now in mid to high tier play she's regularly blocked and parried.

Besides, the PK isn't even nearly the greatest offender with light attack spam, especially now that the Valkyrie is almost equally as fast and she has several crowd control and interrupt abilities.

BanzaiPizzaLord
04-15-2017, 01:44 PM
I agree with Gray.

That being said, it sad to see that some other classes suffer from the same problem except they are bad in comparison with PK : Orochi and Kensei. After 2 months and 11 tourney, i cant understand why devs don't see that top light only is boring , unskilled and unfun to play.

I have made few days ago a poll to show how stupid it is, but since that, nothing new !

84 votes for only tops and zone. 84 VOTES !!
Is that not enough for the devs ?

>>https://strawpoll.com/yy1bye7

kweassa1917
04-15-2017, 03:09 PM
How about you look at her entire kit while you're at it? Her longest attack chain is light-light-heavy, and her bleed has been nerfed half to death. Her dodge-heavy was nerfed too. Point is, that you're actively and indirectly encouraging players who play as a PK to light spam.

Furthermore without light attacks, she really has no way to open up an opponent. Her entire playstyle is to quickly sting an opponent to death, and she can't effectively do so. Hell even now in mid to high tier play she's regularly blocked and parried.

Besides, the PK isn't even nearly the greatest offender with light attack spam, especially now that the Valkyrie is almost equally as fast and she has several crowd control and interrupt abilities.

You don't "open up" enemies with a 1-button solution that just comes with an inherent "oh it's so fast" trait.

You "open-up" with multiple probing attacks, taking risks, and luring the opponent into attacking.


Cut the "oh but we need that safe, unlikely to be punished, can be spammed, initiative remains with me due to recover frame advantage attack -- I'm not gonna mix-up other atatcks because they are all so dangerous and risky" excuse already.

Aside from the 4 classes consider OP, and some 1~2 others with similar safe-spammed moves, the rest half of the classes considered to be low-mid ~ low tier ALL learn to live with that risk. You don't "open up" or force "50/50"s with just a touch of a single button that gives you fast and safe spams or (even worse) fast, safe, unblockable AND guranteed extra damage spams.

You open up by initiating a mind game -- not by shooting a gun and demanding the opponent dodges a bullet instead of complain.

DovaahisPGM
04-15-2017, 05:54 PM
I'd like to see the devs play the conqueror for once... Cause i know i will laugh to death :cool:

(They never played him if i'm right, this is just sad)

CandleInTheDark
04-15-2017, 06:01 PM
You don't "open up" enemies with a 1-button solution that just comes with an inherent "oh it's so fast" trait.

You "open-up" with multiple probing attacks, taking risks, and luring the opponent into attacking.


Cut the "oh but we need that safe, unlikely to be punished, can be spammed, initiative remains with me due to recover frame advantage attack -- I'm not gonna mix-up other atatcks because they are all so dangerous and risky" excuse already.

Aside from the 4 classes consider OP, and some 1~2 others with similar safe-spammed moves, the rest half of the classes considered to be low-mid ~ low tier ALL learn to live with that risk. You don't "open up" or force "50/50"s with just a touch of a single button that gives you fast and safe spams or (even worse) fast, safe, unblockable AND guranteed extra damage spams.

You open up by initiating a mind game -- not by shooting a gun and demanding the opponent dodges a bullet instead of complain.

I had a valkyrie blocking everything, and I mean every attack, every dodge, every guardbreak and gave me nothing to deflect into. Sooner or later I figured the only way I was going to break her was hard feinting to get a light attack the other side, and as soon as she had to guard against that or think will I switch sides or cancel into guardbreak I had other options. Sometimes I do think people want too much

kweassa1917
04-15-2017, 07:46 PM
I had a valkyrie blocking everything, and I mean every attack, every dodge, every guardbreak and gave me nothing to deflect into. Sooner or later I figured the only way I was going to break her was hard feinting to get a light attack the other side, and as soon as she had to guard against that or think will I switch sides or cancel into guardbreak I had other options. Sometimes I do think people want too much

That's why I main a Raider now.

I've always been attracted to the "underdog" classes in any game, but its not just that, as I've realized. Some people may be appalled to hear this, but in a sense, I've come to the staggering realization that the Raider's style of combat, is in truth, is what the basics of combat in FH should be.

Look at the Raider. It doesn't have any "safe" attacks at all, and I mean none.

Light attack speeds are average at best, there's nothing that comes out as fast as an Orochi or Warden top light or ZA. Heavies are also not particularly difficult and telegraphed easily, and there aren't any lighting fast variations in attack directions. Dodge-related skills -- the dodge-light axe-handle -- have a certain quality to be abruptly fired off, but also not particularly difficult to block. And no, I don't use the darned unlock-unparriable-unblockable ZA glitch (although honestly I've been tempted more than once to use it).

So like, I don't have a 1-button toplight/side ZA 50/50 I can force onto people, nor do I have a quick-spam unblockable like a shieldbash or a headbutt or a shove. All my attacks are average to slow. So then how am I supposed to "open up" enemy defenses at all? How am I supposed to tick off damage at a steady rate when my unblockable doesn't fire off like a headbutt, nor does it have guaranteed extra damage after that?

How's the Raider supposed to do ANYTHING?

Well, after a while, it comes to you.

You don't open up or 50/50 with just one button, You try things -- and a LOT of things, by that. People who play the Raider and get upto a certain level, they literally experiment EVERYTHING in their power ranging from mindgames, deception, positioning, range management, and a bucketload of feinting... and literally NONE OF THIS IS SAFE. Everything has a really serious risk of being countered horribly, and yet, Raiders are all forced to try it, and nothing comes cheap and easy at all.

And after getting a taste of this, I can honestly say -- just like in your excellent example of a fight against that Valkyrie you've provided -- this, is how most classes should be in FH. You TRY things, WORK hard to get things done, not by using a single skill that shoots off a certain desired effect because it has that effect inherently wired into it.

SK-LorD4rk
04-15-2017, 08:12 PM
As far as PK goes, for 1.06 could you please:

-keep the ZA fix
-rollback the side attack dmg nerf
-adjust the LA spam in a per-platform basis (PC-60fps and Consoles-30fps specific adjustments)

...then monitor how it goes and further adjust it - if needed - for 1.07? Thx

SJW_Kriegor
04-15-2017, 08:22 PM
Lol, is this a joke? Someone abused a move that ultimately lead him to lose and the result of that action is people asking for this move to be nerfed? Awesome! You made my day.

Gray360UK
04-15-2017, 08:24 PM
As far as PK goes, for 1.06 could you please:

-keep the ZA fix
-rollback the side attack dmg nerf
-adjust the LA spam in a per-platform basis (PC-60fps and Consoles-30fps specific adjustments)

...then monitor how it goes and further adjust it - if needed - for 1.07? Thx

Yes please.

100% agree.

Gray360UK
04-15-2017, 08:25 PM
Lol, is this a joke? Someone abused a move that ultimately lead him to lose and the result of that action is people asking for this move to be nerfed? Awesome! You made my day.

Point ------------------>
Your head.

Dizzy4213
04-15-2017, 08:36 PM
Here's what they could do to reduce the light attack spam:

1. Make her second light the same speed as the first and add longer recovery time after consecutive light attacks.

2. Move the heavy from the end of the chain and stick it right in the middle. Instead of it being (LLH) it will now be (LHL) removing the spam entirely.