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SJW_Kriegor
04-13-2017, 02:07 PM
Do it for the Honor! (10 points) Complete 50 Honorable Kills in 4v4 PvP matches.

This is one of For Honor's achievements. Isn't there a semantic problem? I'm not a native english speaker but one of the things I've learned thanks to this forum is that "for honor" and "with honor" are two completely opposite things. If "doing it for the honor" is related to completing 50 honorable kills in 4v4, then it's in formal opposition to what "for honor" means in 4v4. Ubisoft must have meant "Do it with honor". I'm confused.
Sorry if my question seems naive. In my native tongue, honor has only one meaning no matter which preposition you use before.

Genesiz13
04-13-2017, 02:49 PM
For honor means that the honor is the objective of your action, you are doing something to receive honor, or to be honored. with honor describes your action. it's like doing an evil action for the greater good. you are doing it "for" good, but your action is evil, so it would be with evil but for good. same deal. For the honor means that ultimately you are killing so that you will receive honor or be honored by someone else. as for the honorable kills, you could interpret "honorable" as something that is worthy of being honored. like saying something is commendable, you will receive honor from someone else for performing these kills, they don't necessarily have to be kills completed with honor. although i do admit it's a pretty subjective reading, you could interpret it another way that would demonstrate a lack of agreement between the title and the description.

Gray360UK
04-13-2017, 03:03 PM
Do it for the Honor! (10 points) – Complete 50 Honorable Kills in 4v4 PvP matches.

This is one of For Honor's achievements. Isn't there a semantic problem? I'm not a native english speaker but one of the things I've learned thanks to this forum is that "for honor" and "with honor" are two completely opposite things. If "doing it for the honor" is related to completing 50 honorable kills in 4v4, then it's in formal opposition to what "for honor" means in 4v4. Ubisoft must have meant "Do it with honor". I'm confused.
Sorry if my question seems naive. In my native tongue, honor has only one meaning no matter which preposition you use before.

Honour has several meanings, regardless of your native tongue.

So, like the game title, it is FOR, not with. We've discussed elsewhere how honour can mean fame, glory, prestige and so on. So if we use one of those instead, Do it for the Glory, then we have no problem gaining this achievement without fighting in an honourable way. No issues here.

'Honourable' would normally be a kill performed in an honourable way, and 'honourable' has less flexible definitions compared to 'honour' alone. However 'honourable' could be said to be something that is worthy of honour, something that deserves to be honoured / that deserves fame / glory / prestige. So a kill that earns you fame or glory. Basically a good kill.

In the Cambridge English Dictionary 'honourable' has two slightly different meanings
1. honest and fair
2. deserving of praise and respect

You can debate 1, what is honest, what is fair? Is it fair I kick you over a ledge that you could have kicked me over? The game certainly thinks so. This is an honourable kill in-game. Number 2 fits the use of honour throughout For Honor far more, your kill deserves praise / glory. Again, basically a good kill. A glorious kill.

Everything in For Honor makes far more sense if you read glory or glorious instead of honour or honourable.

The game really should have been called For Glory ;)

SK-LorD4rk
04-13-2017, 04:29 PM
The game really should have been called For Glory ;)

Agreed. The "honor" term adds too much confusion in general, opens up for personal interpretation and reflects bad in the game modes. Like, my (admittedly wrong) interpretation of honor in this game is: fairness, justice, respect, anti gank, anti throw-off-the-cliff etc. My friend's interpretation (and the right mindset for this game) is: win at all cost no matter what for the honor (for the glory). The fact that the in-game engine recognizes somehow "honorable kills" just make the whole situation worse.

Every time I think about this theme I remember the gank from Jedi masters Obi wan and Qui-Gon against Darth Maul. :D

Gray360UK
04-13-2017, 04:37 PM
Every time I think about this theme I remember the gank from Jedi masters Obi wan and Qui-Gon against Darth Maul. :D

Haha yes exactly, I have thought about that scene many times in connection with For Honor as well :)

CandleInTheDark
04-13-2017, 04:42 PM
So we need to tell the devs to change the name to For Glory and people will have less confusion over omg they ganked me :p

SJW_Kriegor
04-13-2017, 04:52 PM
So I was right. The name of this achievement is misleading. They should probably also rename what they call "honorable kills" since it is a subjective notion and the game enforces the idea that ganking is not honorable (it does not account for honorable kills). Thanks for all the feedback.

Alustar.
04-13-2017, 04:58 PM
Well maybe if you consider each different faction being different examples of the forms of glory and honor it makes sense.