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View Full Version : Variety declining, "pro"-playstyles bleeding through



Herbstlicht
04-12-2017, 08:03 PM
Dunno what you are experiencing these days, but i got the feeling, there is almost no more variety when fighting the majority of classes. Guess Orochi is the worst, being a 2-move character with an occasional sideattack thrown in, followed by wardens trying their vortex. After those, well, it is pretty much "the others" with the exception of Kensei, Zerker, Nobushi, Big-axe and Big-Club guy. Those four seem to be the most varied fights, though shugoki sometimes feels incredibly stupid to fight against.

Furthermore, even on console, if you are not on an ultra fast character, people adapt an increasingly defensive playstyle. I can't tell how stupid it feels to fight vs Orochi that only defend and occasionally spam za or top light. They don't even do their stupid rush due to the likely punish.

Hell, where is the fun in that? Fighting bot's only is boring too :/

CandleInTheDark
04-12-2017, 08:13 PM
The problem with the orochi as far as I see it comes in how people treat the storm rush and zephyr strike, the orochi is a counter attacker (according to his description anyhow) and those moves, as well as their deflects, are the best punishers for over aggression in the game (defensive meta aside, that does need to be dealt with). Most orochi telegraph their storm rush and I roll my eyes and ready to deflect into it for bleed but used properly it is a powerful tool, and I never see zephyr strike but they can punish a good deal of injudicious heavies. (Bearing in mind this is going off of guides on youtube and a bit of bot practice, though they are the only assassiin or quasi-assassin (meaning valkyrie or nobushi) I have no levels in so I may change that sooner or later)

iAlwaysL0se
04-12-2017, 09:15 PM
Dunno what you are experiencing these days, but i got the feeling, there is almost no more variety when fighting the majority of classes. Guess Orochi is the worst, being a 2-move character with an occasional sideattack thrown in, followed by wardens trying their vortex. After those, well, it is pretty much "the others" with the exception of Kensei, Zerker, Nobushi, Big-axe and Big-Club guy. Those four seem to be the most varied fights, though shugoki sometimes feels incredibly stupid to fight against.

Furthermore, even on console, if you are not on an ultra fast character, people adapt an increasingly defensive playstyle. I can't tell how stupid it feels to fight vs Orochi that only defend and occasionally spam za or top light. They don't even do their stupid rush due to the likely punish.

Hell, where is the fun in that? Fighting bot's only is boring too :/

I can feel ya man. I like to go balls to the wall and just attack till my opponent dies, albeit not without thought in each strike. It does get very boring when the average player or above average player tries to implement "pro" tactics and turtle up. I usually adapt to how my opponent plays so if they want to turtle I'll just stand there. Had a dude not attack me before for an entire round, he was a warlord and literally refused to attack so the timer went all the way down with no one throwing out an attack! There's no avoiding it but if you don't care about k/d and aren't trying to be all MLG, just let them have their fun and go ape with attacks and let them whoop you so you can move on to another queue. Your frustration will dissipate and the other person can feel like a big **** gamer legend lol. As games like these grow, people will always choose the "most viable" ways to play for wins/ characters instead of just going to have a good time. Everyone wants to be the next Summit1G it seems sometimes :p

psyminion
04-12-2017, 09:45 PM
I'm all about an entertaining fight and I have no problem making crazy mistakes just for it to pay off once and be a wow moment.
im victorious slightly more than 54% of the time, but as long as I simply kill a little more than I die I'm happy to be a flashy orochi.

imho the turtle meta should be shunned by the community and those players that will actually do nothing in a 'fight' should be shunned.

secrecy274
04-12-2017, 10:19 PM
There're two kinds of players.
The players that tries (keyword) to be skillful and utilize most if not their entire moveset.
And the players that spam the same moves over and over.

The only difference are how rewarding the class are for each.
Warlord, Conq (pre-nerf) Peacekeeper (console) etc rewards spam.
Kensei (pre-buff), Orochi, Lawbringer (pre-buff) does not.

CandleInTheDark
04-12-2017, 10:29 PM
There're two kinds of players.
The players that tries (keyword) to be skillful and utilize most if not their entire moveset.
And the players that spam the same moves over and over.

The only difference are how rewarding the class are for each.
Warlord, Conq (pre-nerf) Peacekeeper (console) etc rewards spam.
Kensei (pre-buff), Orochi, Lawbringer (pre-buff) does not.

Yeah this is very much the case within the individual heroes mentioned,I try to use the entire peacekeeper kit, bleeds,cancels, deflects,feints, etc and honestly it is too rewarding to use her spam at all levels on the console so people are going to do that.Same when I played warden, I tried to play the feint game looking for guardbreaks or crushing counterstrike and keept the shoulder charge for when it could punish a mistake, best one I had was dodging a forward dodge attack, bash into wall, guaranteed top heavy execution. The thing is the higher up people get, the more likely the anything for a win attitude will creep in and they will go to the easiest route possible, meaning those that don't have to be more skilled than them just to get the same reward.

Gray360UK
04-13-2017, 12:18 AM
When I am occassionally forced into Duel and Brawl because of Daily Orders, the way they fight is quite sad to me. Many people are so afraid to move wrong, spend all of their time feinting, are terrified of making a mistake or being the first to attack ... it reduces so much of the combat to a pale shadow of what it could be, with most of the moveset abandoned because of risk.

Makes me realise how different the playstyle is in 4 vs 4. We practically have two different games on our hands.

I can spot 1 vs 1 people in 4 vs 4 matches because they are very bad at countering external threats and waste a lot of time feinting and guard shifting, only to get shot in the face by a Longbow or hit over the back of the head by a Raider ;) Likewise a 4 vs 4 player like me does none of the expected things in 1 vs 1, which often works in my favour, because to them I am totally unpredictable and do few of the things they are expecting me to do.

4 vs 4 is where characters really shine, because the chaos allows you to use any move you like. 1 vs1 I find very dull and safe and predictable in comparison.

Bob__Gnarly
04-13-2017, 12:22 AM
The game needs a big shake up, the turtle meta needs to go.

What I don't understand is why block damage and block resistance are even a thing on gear. They're ridiculously under powered. Make chip damage more effective, that would be a step in the right direction.

secrecy274
04-13-2017, 12:30 AM
When I am occassionally forced into Duel and Brawl because of Daily Orders, the way they fight is quite sad to me. Many people are so afraid to move wrong, spend all of their time feinting, are terrified of making a mistake or being the first to attack ... it reduces so much of the combat to a pale shadow of what it could be, with most of the moveset abandoned because of risk.

Makes me realise how different the playstyle is in 4 vs 4. We practically have two different games on our hands.

I can spot 1 vs 1 people in 4 vs 4 matches because they are very bad at countering external threats and waste a lot of time feinting and guard shifting, only to get shot in the face by a Longbow or hit over the back of the head by a Raider ;) Likewise a 4 vs 4 player like me does none of the expected things in 1 vs 1, which often works in my favour, because to them I am totally unpredictable and do few of the things they are expecting me to do.

4 vs 4 is where characters really shine, because the chaos allows you to use any move you like. 1 vs1 I find very dull and safe and predictable in comparison.

You have a good point here.
I play mainly Duel and Brawl, so when I first fought an friend who was new to the game he almost won the first round because he were so bad, he caught me of guard multiple times by doing something no experienced Duel player ever would. Luckily for me ego he didn't won though. :)

However, I've had the opposite experience in 4v4s, people are so desperate to get the kill now now NOW!!! that they make mistakes or spam the same light, so an experienced Duel player (like me) can often mop them up without too much trouble (this of course does not extend to every 4v4 player, just the majority).

CandleInTheDark
04-13-2017, 12:43 AM
When I am occassionally forced into Duel and Brawl because of Daily Orders, the way they fight is quite sad to me. Many people are so afraid to move wrong, spend all of their time feinting, are terrified of making a mistake or being the first to attack ... it reduces so much of the combat to a pale shadow of what it could be, with most of the moveset abandoned because of risk.

Makes me realise how different the playstyle is in 4 vs 4. We practically have two different games on our hands.

I can spot 1 vs 1 people in 4 vs 4 matches because they are very bad at countering external threats and waste a lot of time feinting and guard shifting, only to get shot in the face by a Longbow or hit over the back of the head by a Raider ;) Likewise a 4 vs 4 player like me does none of the expected things in 1 vs 1, which often works in my favour, because to them I am totally unpredictable and do few of the things they are expecting me to do.

4 vs 4 is where characters really shine, because the chaos allows you to use any move you like. 1 vs1 I find very dull and safe and predictable in comparison.

On the same note I can tell when my whole team plays skirmish more often when in dominion. A large portion of one game the other team had all three zones and they had two people floating between them who would always get me soon after I captured one and I swear every time I died, all three were in the centre,mostly hacking at minions.One of them left and was replaced by a bot as we eventually went to about 600 from 700-50 down but yeah whether in the individual combat or in objectives,people need to learn to play the game mode. I suspect the only way a duel or brawl type will do well in dominion is when the devs make constant defence not as strong as it is.

Epoqx
04-13-2017, 12:49 AM
So you guys are saying that the good duelers/brawlers are gonna be ****tier than Dominion players in 4v4 mods ?

UbiNoty
04-13-2017, 12:59 AM
Thank you all for your feedback on this topic. Our team is aware that there is a discrepancy between defensive and attack playstyles, and we realize that the current 'turtle meta' is having a big influence on gameplay, so we're evaluating different routes we can take to change things up.
What kinds of changes do you think could be made to address the current meta and shift it so that playing defensively isn't as low-risk-high-reward?

Epoqx
04-13-2017, 01:51 AM
Thank you all for your feedback on this topic. Our team is aware that there is a discrepancy between defensive and attack playstyles, and we realize that the current 'turtle meta' is having a big influence on gameplay, so we're evaluating different routes we can take to change things up.
What kinds of changes do you think could be made to address the current meta and shift it so that playing defensively isn't as low-risk-high-reward?

- More damage through block
- Less rewarding parry ( no more parry into GB/Heavy for example, only light )
- Stamina cost for each defensive action : Block/Parry/Dodge (Don't know why this wasn't already in the game, + In any real life fighting sports, blocking, parrying, dodging USES stamina)
- Fixing the same change guard speed to each character

Listing few of the tons of ideas that came out on forums since a long while.


You guys at ubisoft already have all the necessary ideas from community... But you don't use them. What's the point of discussing about it even more ?
Few examples from last patch :

- Kensei's main problem was finding a way to open a turtle. You buffed his ending moves. Kensei's main problem is still the opening.
- PK's main problem was the ZA and fast/high damage spammable lights. You nerfed ZA and dash attacks. PK's main problem is still the spammable lights.
- Warden's main problem was the spammable shoulder dash 50/50/50(/50). You did nothing. Warden's main problem is still the spammable shoulder dash 50/50/50(/50).
- Oh yeah connection issues. nvm.
- And much more. Yeah some nerfs where a pleasure to receive (WL's headbutt, PK's ZA...), but most of the important fixes, that the community talked about in a lot of threads, giving a lot of ideas, didn't saw the light.


- No test servers on the two first release months.
- Bad communication on the two first release months.
- One update/month on the two first release months.


I know it is your job to be active on forum, and to make us believe that our opinion count. Although what is the point for us, the community of players, to talk about all of this when we get no real results after exactly 2 months of expectation ? A shame that a game like that isn't taken seriously by Ubisoft highest authorities.

kweassa1917
04-13-2017, 02:03 AM
Thank you all for your feedback on this topic. Our team is aware that there is a discrepancy between defensive and attack playstyles, and we realize that the current 'turtle meta' is having a big influence on gameplay, so we're evaluating different routes we can take to change things up.
What kinds of changes do you think could be made to address the current meta and shift it so that playing defensively isn't as low-risk-high-reward?

Noty, as many have spoken out, as well as myself, its basically the risk-reward relationship being unequal between offense and defense that's causing this. If we weigh the 'pros and cons' between aggressive offense and passive defense, everything points to the obvious conclusion that once a player gets accustomed to the system, being passive and defensive will yield massively higher amount of rewards at a lower risk, than going aggressive and offensive, which is unlikely to yield good results despite much higher risks.

...

In reality, be it unarmed or armed combat, attacks are often so fast that you will hardly be able to really parry it or even block it, hence usually the preferred mode of defense is the element of range/distance. Ofcourse you can't have that in a game, so basically all types of attacks in FH are within reasonable boundaries of human reflexes. This means from the beginning, in truth, DEFENDING against an attack is easier than ATTACKING in FH.

A lot of people complain about how Warden/Orochi ZAs are too fast to activate, or Warlord/Conqueror unblockable spams are too effective, and they would be right. But if we really break it down to the amount of damage done according to attack type, over a certain level of skill, the efficiency of singular basic attacks tend to drop down massively and it becomes very unlikely a basic light or heavy attacks will ever make it through enemy defenses. An unexpected shot of quick-activation skills like Warden/Orochi ZA often connects well, but it goes only so far. If we have two people dueling, and limit their skill use to basic attacks and basic combos, even a mediocre level player will successfully block most light attacks, and reliably parry heavy attacks.

In the end, by far the most common and reliable method of damage dealt to the opponent comes in the form of GUARANTEED DAMAGE -- damage inflicted upon the opponent forcibly, with no way for the opponent to avoid it. People call this "punishment".

...

To make a long story short, FH's "punishment outweighs the crime". Like mentioned above, when players get upto a certain level of skill, penetrating enemy defenses become very difficult and it is more than likely many of your attempts will be blocked or parried. However, from the defender's perspective, such blocks and parries will often reward you with an opportunity to land an attack, or sequence of attacks that the attacker has no way of avoiding. Many classes can parry light attacks and land a heavy attack as punishment. Almost all classes can GB and chain it to an unavoidable heavy damage. And parrying heavy attacks will almost always land you a GB that cannot be CGBd, which will lead to a free heavy attack.

So, at this point people begin to question their method of combat. Why should one bother attacking first, or take the initiative in aggressive offense?

If you are aggressive on the offense, you...

(1) suffer greatly in terms of stamina, running the risk of being exhausted
(2) your attacks are likely to miss, or be blocked, or parried
(3) if you miss you are in very high danger of being counter-attacked
(4) if you are blocked, you will more than likely be punished
(5) if you are parried, you will be inflicted with heavy damage that you have no way of avoiding
(6) every one of your attack that gets blocked leads to your opponent's revenge-gaing


However, if you are passive and just stick to defense...

(1) most forms of attacks are not too hard to block or parry
(2) the guard-damage -- or "chip damage" -- is so low that its almost non-existant. No stamina is cost, so you can block forever.
(3) your dodge costs no stamina, so if you have a superior dodge like the Orochi or PK, <S>+<SPACE> in usual cases simply evades everything
(4) if you parry attacks, you're rewarded with big damage inflicted on your opponent


Its simply no contest.

The potential rewards of defending is overwhelmingly higher than the rewards of attacking, with little to no risk at all. Most of this imbalance in risk-reward comes from the fact that (1) successful defensive action -- particularly parries -- lead to too much 'guaranteed' damage, and (2) defensive actions such as blocking and dodging cost no 'resources' -- such as stamina -- at all.

What we need, IMO, is to greatly increase the incentives of being aggressive, and lower the potential risks... and at the same time, need to greatly increase the risks of defending, while lowering potential rewards of defense.

KnifeInUrNeck
04-13-2017, 03:05 AM
Yeah, during beta when I saw the block damage stat, I thought it'd have a much larger impact on gameplay. it still could really but if you do increase that, then you HAVE to make dodging cost stamina(which it should anyway). I think a lot of the issue comes from unbalanced skill sets as well. Some characters have no true openers and others have multiple. Feinting should have a lower stamina cost since it would play a larger role in fights if block damage is increased. People would be less inclined to take those blocked shots and it'd be a more effective tool for the aggressor.

kweassa1917
04-13-2017, 03:39 AM
-- oops double post --

kweassa1917
04-13-2017, 03:43 AM
If you look at from my angle closely, you'll also notice that this "defensive meta" is also very closely related to the class-balance problem.

The current "OP-4" (Warden, Conq, Warlord, PK), despite being different classes with different skills, actually all share a common trait.


1. Commonly despised and loathed by many, the Warden's "vortex" set of moves are comprised of moves that are quite difficult to counter due to fast activation, and it forces a 50/50 guessing game which is currently the single most efficient method of bypassing the "defense meta" that relies on passive blocks and parries. The 'vortex' is a rare case in FH where the variant attacks are usually too fast to react and counter for even people with good reflexes, and therefore the reliability of the 'passive defense' is greatly lowered than usual, as the defender cannot truly 'react,' but only 'guess.' This moveset also offers some 'guaranteed damage' and is relatively safe even when countered, with true 'punishment' not very likely to happen.

2. Warlord relies on an unblockable, spammable headbutt that is also quick to activate and difficult to counter for most people -- which, with a successful hit also has a guaranteed hit. Add to this the shield-based defense and revenge system, and what you get is a class that is very resilient, very quick to fire up revenge, and then spams a quick unblockable that KNOCKS DOWN while revenge is activated, thus leading to MORE GUARANTEED DAMAGE.

3. Conqs work similarly as Warlords, but instead relies on shield bashes that has a very small window of punishment. Basic combat methodology is also similar to Warlord, and also boasts a UNBLOCKABLE KNOCKDOWN that leads to MORE GUARANTEED DAMAGE on hit.

4. PKs are light on their feet and have an absolutely superior dodge, best in both distance covered and speed of travel. This allows her to engage/disengage at will, and when coupled with the fact that the radar-stealth also lets her start the fight the way she wants, this means the PK simply dictates the fight in that she is free to fight battles under her own terms, and simply refuse a fight when she doesn't feel comfortable with it. So any fight that is against a PK usually means the PK player is confident with the situation, thus gaining the initiative. The speed of her light attacks are one of the few attacks in the game that is actually quite challenging to one's reflexes and you may be overwhelmed by sheer amount of incoming attacks -- especially when you are forced to split your concentration between matching the guard direction and looking out for incoming GBs that lead to ton of bleed damage. The PK's a rare case of not relying on guaranteed damage, but can simply overwhelm the opponent's defenses with superior attack specs.


5. The Orochi was considered one of the "OP-4" in the opening phases of the game, but since then has come down a tier and is now cosidered middle~ upper middle tier. The Orochi is basically a middle point between the Warden and the PK, or can be viewed as a neutered down version of the Warden without the 'vortex'. Fast attacks, superior dodge motion, but when it comes to attacking, it doesn't have the above 'common traits' -- hence it fell down to middle tier.

6. The recent rise of the Shugoki -- an alternate form of spamming a 'relatively safe' attack that can bypass the "defense meta" totally -- the Oni Charge. A superior charging attack that gains priority over almost all other moves due to the superarmor(uninterruptable state), easy to spam, weirdly difficult to evade due to him being so pot-bellied, that knocks the other guy down AND THEN ALSO OFFERS A GUARANTEED ATTACK.


The two traits of OP classes, thus, can be categorized as:

(1) easy, quick, relatively safe-to-use = spammable attacks or method of attack that bypasses the 'defense meta'
(2) a repeatedly 'guaranteed damage' component/element that is attached to (1)


Basically, too many situations that reward the player in the form of 'guaranteed damage' is about half of what makes current OP classes 'OP'.

bmason1000
04-13-2017, 04:47 AM
Thank you all for your feedback on this topic. Our team is aware that there is a discrepancy between defensive and attack playstyles, and we realize that the current 'turtle meta' is having a big influence on gameplay, so we're evaluating different routes we can take to change things up.
What kinds of changes do you think could be made to address the current meta and shift it so that playing defensively isn't as low-risk-high-reward?

Increased chip damage for sure. A lot of people really want dodge to have a stamina cost but I personally think that would destroy the assassin classes. PK will probably be fine but berserker and orochi rely on it extensively for offense. Being more aggresive characters, their stamina drain is pretty heavy already. Just my two cents.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
04-13-2017, 05:25 AM
If you look at from my angle closely, you'll also notice that this "defensive meta" is also very closely related to the class-balance problem.

The current "OP-4" (Warden, Conq, Warlord, PK), despite being different classes with different skills, actually all share a common trait.


1. Commonly despised and loathed by many, the Warden's "vortex" set of moves are comprised of moves that are quite difficult to counter due to fast activation, and it forces a 50/50 guessing game which is currently the single most efficient method of bypassing the "defense meta" that relies on passive blocks and parries. The 'vortex' is a rare case in FH where the variant attacks are usually too fast to react and counter for even people with good reflexes, and therefore the reliability of the 'passive defense' is greatly lowered than usual, as the defender cannot truly 'react,' but only 'guess.' This moveset also offers some 'guaranteed damage' and is relatively safe even when countered, with true 'punishment' not very likely to happen.

2. Warlord relies on an unblockable, spammable headbutt that is also quick to activate and difficult to counter for most people -- which, with a successful hit also has a guaranteed hit. Add to this the shield-based defense and revenge system, and what you get is a class that is very resilient, very quick to fire up revenge, and then spams a quick unblockable that KNOCKS DOWN while revenge is activated, thus leading to MORE GUARANTEED DAMAGE.

3. Conqs work similarly as Warlords, but instead relies on shield bashes that has a very small window of punishment. Basic combat methodology is also similar to Warlord, and also boasts a UNBLOCKABLE KNOCKDOWN that leads to MORE GUARANTEED DAMAGE on hit.

4. PKs are light on their feet and have an absolutely superior dodge, best in both distance covered and speed of travel. This allows her to engage/disengage at will, and when coupled with the fact that the radar-stealth also lets her start the fight the way she wants, this means the PK simply dictates the fight in that she is free to fight battles under her own terms, and simply refuse a fight when she doesn't feel comfortable with it. So any fight that is against a PK usually means the PK player is confident with the situation, thus gaining the initiative. The speed of her light attacks are one of the few attacks in the game that is actually quite challenging to one's reflexes and you may be overwhelmed by sheer amount of incoming attacks -- especially when you are forced to split your concentration between matching the guard direction and looking out for incoming GBs that lead to ton of bleed damage. The PK's a rare case of not relying on guaranteed damage, but can simply overwhelm the opponent's defenses with superior attack specs.


5. The Orochi was considered one of the "OP-4" in the opening phases of the game, but since then has come down a tier and is now cosidered middle~ upper middle tier. The Orochi is basically a middle point between the Warden and the PK, or can be viewed as a neutered down version of the Warden without the 'vortex'. Fast attacks, superior dodge motion, but when it comes to attacking, it doesn't have the above 'common traits' -- hence it fell down to middle tier.

6. The recent rise of the Shugoki -- an alternate form of spamming a 'relatively safe' attack that can bypass the "defense meta" totally -- the Oni Charge. A superior charging attack that gains priority over almost all other moves due to the superarmor(uninterruptable state), easy to spam, weirdly difficult to evade due to him being so pot-bellied, that knocks the other guy down AND THEN ALSO OFFERS A GUARANTEED ATTACK.


The two traits of OP classes, thus, can be categorized as:

(1) easy, quick, relatively safe-to-use = spammable attacks or method of attack that bypasses the 'defense meta'
(2) a repeatedly 'guaranteed damage' component/element that is attached to (1)


Basically, too many situations that reward the player in the form of 'guaranteed damage' is about half of what makes current OP classes 'OP'.

The shugoki can be lumped in there with with charge of the oni, as that leads to even higher damage than most other classes and is a 50/50 as well.

Delectable_Sin
04-13-2017, 05:35 AM
Thank you all for your feedback on this topic. Our team is aware that there is a discrepancy between defensive and attack playstyles, and we realize that the current 'turtle meta' is having a big influence on gameplay, so we're evaluating different routes we can take to change things up.
What kinds of changes do you think could be made to address the current meta and shift it so that playing defensively isn't as low-risk-high-reward?

Give all characters a "stun" attack that will take away the attack indicators for those effected for a short time. Or possibly just get rid of attack indicators altogether.

Give all characters an unblockable attack that can be cancelled.

Give all characters the same light attack speed as the PK.

Increase the attack speed of all heavy attacks for all characters by 25%.

kweassa1917
04-13-2017, 09:28 AM
My suggestions are...


1. stamina cost to dodge


2. increased block damage (or 'chip damage' as some call it)
-- blocking light damage will receive 30% of base light attack damage
-- blocking heavy damage will receive 30% of base heavy attack damage


3-1. implement "block meter" in a similar fashion to the stamina meter
-- blocking attacks depletes block meter
-- block meter starts replenshing 3 seconds after last block
-- when block meter is fully depleted = blocking a heavy attack will crush through your guard (= "Guard Crush") and you will be staggered
-- when block meter is fully depleted = light attacks can still be blocked, but it will cost stamina
-- when block meter is fully depleted + stamina exhausted = blocking a light attack will crush through your guard (= "Guard Crush") and you will be staggered
-- when staggered = you cannot CGB, you cannot block, you cannot parry
-- when staggered = will be vulnerable for approximately 1 heavy attack to land


3-2. if adding in a separate 'block meter' system/mechanic is not an option, then make blocks cost stamina
-- blocking attacks will cost 50~75% stamina of incoming attack blocked (if someone uses 20 stamina attack, blocking it will cost 10~15)
-- if stamina is exhausted, block damage is doubled


4. changes to parry
-- parrying an attack will restore 75% of your blockmeter(3-1) / 75% of your stamina(3-2)
-- opponents will recover fast enough so no heavy attack is guaranteed in any situation
-- light attacks are still guaranteed -- first light attack within 3 seconds of a successful parry will daze
-- for 5 seconds after being parried, opponent will suffer 60% higher damage to blockmeter(3-1)/stamina(3-2) when blocking
-- GBs are still guaranteed after a successful parry

5. changes to GB
-- no heavy attack is guaranteed in any GB
-- new functions of light attack, heavy attack, directional input assigned
-- GB+light attack = special (...and cool...) attack moves of mild damage (higher than light attacks, lower than top heavy attack)
-- GB+heavy attack = knockdown move. Will inflict mild stamina damage and knock opponent down. But no heavy attacks guaranteed.
-- GB+directional input = directional push/pull action, as we have currently
-- A GB+light will be countered by light attack button, GB+heavy will be countered by heavy button, GB+direction will be countered by same direction input




The base idea is to:

(1) get rid of guaranteed damage coming from defensive actions
(2) implement a resource(stamina) cost to defensive actions
(3) and set a higher penalty for just being on the defensive.

Some people may think this will result in just an attack-spam slug fest, but it won't. Everyone knows what they were like when they first started FH, how a mindless attack spamming only gets you bloodied by opponent's stopping hits, as well as exhausted. The stamina cost of attacking is still pretty high in FH and that part is not touched.

What I envision is a fight happening is where people can more freely attempt bold attacks without having to fear every single attempt inevitably leading to big loss in HP due to being parried and/or GBd => guaranteed heavy attack. Each attack you force the enemy to block passively will damage him more than before, not penalizingly high, but enough to start becoming an issue.

Forcing a block upon the opponent will mean something, as it will put him at risk of either his guard getting "crushed" and being staggered (suggestion 3-1), or alternately, his stamina being depleted real fast and falling into exhaustion(suggestion 3-2), where he will continuously be depleted of stamina and unable to escape exhaustion (blocking = stamina cost), and receive double block damage which means even with a successful block you receive 60% of incoming damage. This is essentially a representation of being "overwhelmed by the opponent's powerful offense". If this happens your only chance of escape will be to succeed in a parry to turn the tables around to pop out of exhaustion state, gain back the initiative.

As per the suggestion, in the end none of your defensive moves will reward you with damage. Only minor damage with certain utilities are available even if you succeed in a parry, and basically, any real damage will come as a result of aggressive attack actions, swinging and hitting the enemy, or battering on his guard/shield to smash through his defenses -- not as a reward of a defensive action. A successful defensive action will provide you with the ideal opportunity to turn the tables around and let you push in the offensive -- not give you freebie damage by itself alone.

You are being pushed back and battered by the enemy, your blockmeter or stamina is getting low, the 'chip damage' is starting to mount. You need to escape, but should you risk losing even more stamina by dodging out? Or should you try a parry?


When you succeed in a parry you are also given a choice.

(1) Land an immediate, guaranteed light damage and daze the opponent for further damaging combo possibilities.
(2) Use a heavy attack, which is not guaranteed to hit, but possibly will be blocked. The opponent receives 60% higher block meter or stamina, which means it is a risky move but can yield a potentially very high reward by overwhelming the enemy into exhaustion.
(3) or, as a 3rd option, use a GB, which is guaranteed.


But even if you use GB, this also will not give you any guaranteed damage, but put you into a state of a mindgame which the opponent has a chance to counter and escape from. GBs will now be changed to be more like "grapple" moves in other fighting games, so you are given a choice of:

(1) mild/medium damage attack moves = yields immediate damage, but no further advantages
(2) knockdown move = doesn't guarantee any damage except lights, but its utility will shine in team environments as a disabler move.
(3) directional input = same as we have.


So using a GB after a parry will not be an automatic decision, but rather one of the three choices given to you which you may choose upon the situation/tactics, rather than just automatically do it because it simply gives you a freebie heavy attack damage. But beware -- if you go into a GB, like other fighting games, the opponent is given a chance to break away from it by countering your light move with his light, heavy knockdown with his heavy, and position change with his own directional input.


Basically something like this is what I'd like to see in FH.

Dude_of_Valor
04-13-2017, 10:06 AM
I have found people not to be too defensive on Xbox. Has anyone else seen this? I primarily play 1v1 and occasionally Brawl.

I also think that if stamina cost/chip damage is increased from blocking, then it should be tweaked gently and over time. I also think that the classes that are used dictates how much chip damage/stamina they loose depending on the class they are fighting.

A lawbringer should deal more chip damage/stamina cost when blocked by a peacekeeper for example.

You could also take it a step further and increase the amount of chip damage/stamina cost based on the distance when blocking.

Block an attack at the furthest point causes negligible chip damage/stamina cost but blocking one up close and personally causing more.

As for variety of classes I think this comes down to people wanting to keep a good K/D ratio and win percentage, thus trying out new classes is a little risky.

I am guilty of this, but from what I have tried few classes seem to flow as fluidly as a Warden. That and I just don't like the play style of most of the others (am hoping the new classes will change that!)

IamheiN
04-13-2017, 10:14 AM
- More damage through block
- Less rewarding parry ( no more parry into GB/Heavy for example, only light )
- Stamina cost for each defensive action : Block/Parry/Dodge (Don't know why this wasn't already in the game, + In any real life fighting sports, blocking, parrying, dodging USES stamina)
- Fixing the same change guard speed to each character

Listing few of the tons of ideas that came out on forums since a long while.


You guys at ubisoft already have all the necessary ideas from community... But you don't use them. What's the point of discussing about it even more ?
Few examples from last patch :

- Kensei's main problem was finding a way to open a turtle. You buffed his ending moves. Kensei's main problem is still the opening.
- PK's main problem was the ZA and fast/high damage spammable lights. You nerfed ZA and dash attacks. PK's main problem is still the spammable lights.
- Warden's main problem was the spammable shoulder dash 50/50/50(/50). You did nothing. Warden's main problem is still the spammable shoulder dash 50/50/50(/50).
- Oh yeah connection issues. nvm.
- And much more. Yeah some nerfs where a pleasure to receive (WL's headbutt, PK's ZA...), but most of the important fixes, that the community talked about in a lot of threads, giving a lot of ideas, didn't saw the light.


- No test servers on the two first release months.
- Bad communication on the two first release months.
- One update/month on the two first release months.


I know it is your job to be active on forum, and to make us believe that our opinion count. Although what is the point for us, the community of players, to talk about all of this when we get no real results after exactly 2 months of expectation ? A shame that a game like that isn't taken seriously by Ubisoft highest authorities.

This is pretty much what we need in the game for now, then wait to see how it works and do some tiny adjustements, but the stamina cost for blocking and dodging NEEDS to be here.

And a increase of chip damage on blocked attacks, not sure how much it is now but we need atleast 30 to 40% of the damage dealt on block so we can see some ofensive moves.

Hillbill79
04-13-2017, 11:23 AM
Stamina cost for blocking and dodging is all well and good... but what if, for example.. you get exhausted.... how will you get your stamina back up if block and dodge cost stamina? It would be impossible unless your opponent backs off and lets you recover. Which they wont.





This is pretty much what we need in the game for now, then wait to see how it works and do some tiny adjustements, but the stamina cost for blocking and dodging NEEDS to be here.

And a increase of chip damage on blocked attacks, not sure how much it is now but we need atleast 30 to 40% of the damage dealt on block so we can see some ofensive moves.

Nekhros79
04-13-2017, 11:48 AM
The focus of the Dev team should be to promote the diversity of fights and mind game,
and your focus as community manager should be to give more clarity about the current work of Devs.

Concerning the things that need the be changed :
Someone shoudn't be able to stay always on defensive, to do dodge after dodge or to spam unblockable attacks or to run throught the map for 2mn...
- PK lights should be adressed in priority, you're not helping yourself when the patch contains things nobody asked for and this point isn't in it
- All unblockable attacks should have a cooldown, to avoid spamming
- Dodge should cost stamina
- the idea of a block meter is better, i think, than the cost of stamina for block and Parry :
-- blocking attacks depletes block meter
-- block meter starts replenshing 3 seconds after last block
-- when block meter is fully depleted = blocking a heavy attack will crush through your guard (= "Guard Crush") and you will be staggered
-- when block meter is fully depleted = light attacks can still be blocked, but it will cost stamina
-- when block meter is fully depleted + stamina exhausted = blocking a light attack will crush through your guard (= "Guard Crush") and you will be staggered
-- when staggered = you cannot CGB, you cannot block, you cannot parry
-- when staggered = will be vulnerable for approximately 1 heavy attack to land
-- Maybe that could be an opportunity for you to get rid of revenge stats and implement blocking meter stats
- All heroes should be able to feint
- I'm not sure about the asked "less rewarding parry" : having only a light attack after it, the risk wouldn't be worth it.
A parry of a light attack should give a light attack, and a parry of a Heavy attack should lead to a garanteed GB, with maybe a chance for the opponent to parry it.

kweassa1917
04-13-2017, 12:06 PM
Stamina cost for blocking and dodging is all well and good... but what if, for example.. you get exhausted.... how will you get your stamina back up if block and dodge cost stamina? It would be impossible unless your opponent backs off and lets you recover. Which they wont.

Parry.

At least that's my solution to it -- a successful Parry will recover 50~75% of your stamina while at the same time draining their stamina (as it does now, perhaps a little more) and staggering your opponent enough to land a quick light attack, but not a heavy.

Basically I view the "exhaustion by block" scenario a penalty/punishment of being passive, hence if you keep resorting to passive blocks, you'll never recover from exhaustion. Either you attempt to keep dodging back until find an opportunity to parry and recover, and if the opponent knows this, another mindgame -- you'll be looking for parries, so feints are gonna better than usual.

Or, alternately, revenge. Keep up the blocks while exhausted until revenge fills up, activate and get out -- so revenge becomes a survival boost, not just an attack booster.


The outcome of continuous blocking needs to be penalized, so not only would this push people to try and attack more to pressure the opponent until their stamina breaks, it also drives in a purpose for the defender to try and counter attack to regain the initiative rather than just passively block and parry. The ideal, IMO, should be "a kick-arse defense may help your survive, but that sure ain't gonna help you knock out the other guy" -- which, in current version of FH, is not true, since a kick-arse defense not only helps you survive, but at the same time also leads to KOing the other guy in the form of all sorts of guaranteed damage.

CandleInTheDark
04-13-2017, 12:23 PM
In terms of stamina on dodge,I saw a very good point raised in that it would impact on the assassins, especially the berserker who uses dodge as a soft cancel and the orochi, so if dodge is going to cost stamina, I think the berserker needs to be immune from that when it is a soft cancel (speaking as a peacekeeper main not a berserker) since that is part of how they are supposed to open people up, not sure how it affects the orochi, I haven't played them, in terms of the peacekeeper and anyone else with dash attacks, would it be reasonable to suggest that ok if all dodges are going to cost stamina, dodges that lead to an attack cost no extra stamina as that is part of the same movement?

I'll be straight up in that I am a peacekeeper main so there is some interest in how it would affect the playstyle especially since it is something that would push towards light spam since it is going to cost less stamina than dodging about to get another angle. Myself I will play her whatever happens and adjust my own style to it, just throwing the idea out there.

SJW_Kriegor
04-13-2017, 12:43 PM
Attacks don't come fast enough. PK has the fastest lights and good players still have no problem parrying her. Thus nobody decent do any form of combo. All attacks need to come out faster, attacks that are part of a combo need to come out much faster. Also timing to cgb needs to be much stricter.

kweassa1917
04-13-2017, 12:44 PM
In terms of stamina on dodge,I saw a very good point raised in that it would impact on the assassins, especially the berserker who uses dodge as a soft cancel and the orochi, so if dodge is going to cost stamina, I think the berserker needs to be immune from that when it is a soft cancel (speaking as a peacekeeper main not a berserker) since that is part of how they are supposed to open people up, not sure how it affects the orochi, I haven't played them, in terms of the peacekeeper and anyone else with dash attacks, would it be reasonable to suggest that ok if all dodges are going to cost stamina, dodges that lead to an attack cost no extra stamina as that is part of the same movement?

I'll be straight up in that I am a peacekeeper main so there is some interest in how it would affect the playstyle especially since it is something that would push towards light spam since it is going to cost less damage than dodging about to get another angle. Myself I will play her whatever happens and adjust my own style to it, just throwing the idea out there.

I actually have a solution to that as well. My initial idea as that stamina cost first begins very low, and basically dodge will have an "internal cooltime" so every time it is used within that succession, the stamina cost increases. That means assassins will be able to use multi-dodge shenanigans in short bursts, but if they resort to too much movement to be slippery just ALL the time, then the stamina burden will mount.

This actually works as a solution to classes that have infini-lightspams as well. Initially start out with base stamina cost, and then increases in proportion to times repeated. It's in many similar skills in other games that involve quick-repeated skillsets so people do not abuse it.

Epoqx
04-13-2017, 02:54 PM
Attacks don't come fast enough. PK has the fastest lights and good players still have no problem parrying her. Thus nobody decent do any form of combo. All attacks need to come out faster, attacks that are part of a combo need to come out much faster. Also timing to cgb needs to be much stricter.

Probably on PC, but not on consoles.

CandleInTheDark
04-13-2017, 03:49 PM
I actually have a solution to that as well. My initial idea as that stamina cost first begins very low, and basically dodge will have an "internal cooltime" so every time it is used within that succession, the stamina cost increases. That means assassins will be able to use multi-dodge shenanigans in short bursts, but if they resort to too much movement to be slippery just ALL the time, then the stamina burden will mount.

This actually works as a solution to classes that have infini-lightspams as well. Initially start out with base stamina cost, and then increases in proportion to times repeated. It's in many similar skills in other games that involve quick-repeated skillsets so people do not abuse it.

I think that could very well work,I would think that the stamina needs to be weighted differently towards specific characters like the berserker (maybe half or three quarter in his case just with the dodge or specifically with dodge cancel) somewhat like the conqueror exclusively having superior block on heavies since it fits with the harrasser description he is given outside of that being his way to open people up. I have no issues with it in my own case since counter attack, being the peacekeeper's stock in trade, needs to be more measured in any case. It honestly is the best case I have seen for stamina that doesn't punish attacking as much as it punishes defence which has been the case in most suggestions I have seen.

Aarpian
04-13-2017, 05:15 PM
Thank you all for your feedback on this topic. Our team is aware that there is a discrepancy between defensive and attack playstyles, and we realize that the current 'turtle meta' is having a big influence on gameplay, so we're evaluating different routes we can take to change things up.
What kinds of changes do you think could be made to address the current meta and shift it so that playing defensively isn't as low-risk-high-reward?

Chip damage and gutting parries is essential. So long as you make damage accessible to a reactive playstyle (rather than proactive or predictive) you will force players to stare at each other - one to get the reactive damage and the other to avoid it.

Of course, nobody will parry unless it conveys some benefits over blocking though, which it still would (drain enemy stamina to cripple their offense which is gated by stamina, avoid chip damage).
Light attacks should no longer stagger when blocked either, to encourage combo use.
Lower feint stamina costs
Nerf backdash

Adding stamina costs to defensive actions is a dangerous move as even minor tweaks will have a large impact on how much pressure an offense player can put on, as once he's out of stamina the opponent will also be low on stamina and unable to launch a serious counter-attack of his own.

Oakleaf__Ranger
04-14-2017, 12:41 AM
Yah I can spot them too except when I do its because I see them mopping the floor against the majority of the enemy team like me. The people who primarily play duels/brawls have the best mechanics of the game compared to the other 2. The element of surprise is almost non existent thanks to the mini map that I'm rarely caught by surprise by another player. If by chaos you mean trying cheesy tricks then understand they occur in duels/brawl as well just to a lesser extent. The reason though is because at a certain point everyone you face is already aware of these and not only don't fall for them but can and will punish you for attempting them. Counter guard break is also second nature to us (at least most of us) unlike those who play dominion who predominately aren't. Gear stats make beating those with lesser skill even easier since it essentially means we can end fights quicker and keep moving on.

Alchemist..
04-15-2017, 10:20 PM
Thank you all for your feedback on this topic. Our team is aware that there is a discrepancy between defensive and attack playstyles, and we realize that the current 'turtle meta' is having a big influence on gameplay, so we're evaluating different routes we can take to change things up.
What kinds of changes do you think could be made to address the current meta and shift it so that playing defensively isn't as low-risk-high-reward?


All numbers are examples so do not take them literally. What we need?

Cheap dmg for blocking

Light 1dmg
Heavy 2dmg

Stamina cost for dodging, Bigger for assassins than dodge lights and that's why they generally have better dodge, faster and bigger range.

For making damage we load parry meter and deflect for assassins, the deflect meter is only charged for blocked light attaki for example

For making 60 dmg the meter is full and we get 2 parry a attempts

For making 10 dmg 2 deflect attempts

In this way the players would be more open to attack and fighting would be more tactical and interesting and feints would be used more often. Also note that not every parry means that we will do damage so the one who charged the meter would not be 100% winner.

Of course, this is just the base idea of the system, rules can be different for all classes, for example, defense in full block stance should do 2x dmg by blocking because it does not need any reflexes? assassins have deflects so maybe the rest of them will get party attempts bonuses for full landed chains, or for making x dmg without succesfull block at that time by the opponent? Mabye successfully dodged bash leg sweep etc. should be rewarded as a stamina bonus (no stamina cost for dodge)?


This way the turtling is useless and even dangerous in the long term, players are rewarded for the offensive and the fighting is more interesting and requires planning

MilkyBob.
04-15-2017, 11:10 PM
My suggestions are...


1. stamina cost to dodge


2. increased block damage (or 'chip damage' as some call it)
-- blocking light damage will receive 30% of base light attack damage
-- blocking heavy damage will receive 30% of base heavy attack damage


3-1. implement "block meter" in a similar fashion to the stamina meter
-- blocking attacks depletes block meter
-- block meter starts replenshing 3 seconds after last block
-- when block meter is fully depleted = blocking a heavy attack will crush through your guard (= "Guard Crush") and you will be staggered
-- when block meter is fully depleted = light attacks can still be blocked, but it will cost stamina
-- when block meter is fully depleted + stamina exhausted = blocking a light attack will crush through your guard (= "Guard Crush") and you will be staggered
-- when staggered = you cannot CGB, you cannot block, you cannot parry
-- when staggered = will be vulnerable for approximately 1 heavy attack to land


3-2. if adding in a separate 'block meter' system/mechanic is not an option, then make blocks cost stamina
-- blocking attacks will cost 50~75% stamina of incoming attack blocked (if someone uses 20 stamina attack, blocking it will cost 10~15)
-- if stamina is exhausted, block damage is doubled


4. changes to parry
-- parrying an attack will restore 75% of your blockmeter(3-1) / 75% of your stamina(3-2)
-- opponents will recover fast enough so no heavy attack is guaranteed in any situation
-- light attacks are still guaranteed -- first light attack within 3 seconds of a successful parry will daze
-- for 5 seconds after being parried, opponent will suffer 60% higher damage to blockmeter(3-1)/stamina(3-2) when blocking
-- GBs are still guaranteed after a successful parry

5. changes to GB
-- no heavy attack is guaranteed in any GB
-- new functions of light attack, heavy attack, directional input assigned
-- GB+light attack = special (...and cool...) attack moves of mild damage (higher than light attacks, lower than top heavy attack)
-- GB+heavy attack = knockdown move. Will inflict mild stamina damage and knock opponent down. But no heavy attacks guaranteed.
-- GB+directional input = directional push/pull action, as we have currently
-- A GB+light will be countered by light attack button, GB+heavy will be countered by heavy button, GB+direction will be countered by same direction input




The base idea is to:

(1) get rid of guaranteed damage coming from defensive actions
(2) implement a resource(stamina) cost to defensive actions
(3) and set a higher penalty for just being on the defensive.

Some people may think this will result in just an attack-spam slug fest, but it won't. Everyone knows what they were like when they first started FH, how a mindless attack spamming only gets you bloodied by opponent's stopping hits, as well as exhausted. The stamina cost of attacking is still pretty high in FH and that part is not touched.

What I envision is a fight happening is where people can more freely attempt bold attacks without having to fear every single attempt inevitably leading to big loss in HP due to being parried and/or GBd => guaranteed heavy attack. Each attack you force the enemy to block passively will damage him more than before, not penalizingly high, but enough to start becoming an issue.

Forcing a block upon the opponent will mean something, as it will put him at risk of either his guard getting "crushed" and being staggered (suggestion 3-1), or alternately, his stamina being depleted real fast and falling into exhaustion(suggestion 3-2), where he will continuously be depleted of stamina and unable to escape exhaustion (blocking = stamina cost), and receive double block damage which means even with a successful block you receive 60% of incoming damage. This is essentially a representation of being "overwhelmed by the opponent's powerful offense". If this happens your only chance of escape will be to succeed in a parry to turn the tables around to pop out of exhaustion state, gain back the initiative.

As per the suggestion, in the end none of your defensive moves will reward you with damage. Only minor damage with certain utilities are available even if you succeed in a parry, and basically, any real damage will come as a result of aggressive attack actions, swinging and hitting the enemy, or battering on his guard/shield to smash through his defenses -- not as a reward of a defensive action. A successful defensive action will provide you with the ideal opportunity to turn the tables around and let you push in the offensive -- not give you freebie damage by itself alone.

You are being pushed back and battered by the enemy, your blockmeter or stamina is getting low, the 'chip damage' is starting to mount. You need to escape, but should you risk losing even more stamina by dodging out? Or should you try a parry?


When you succeed in a parry you are also given a choice.

(1) Land an immediate, guaranteed light damage and daze the opponent for further damaging combo possibilities.
(2) Use a heavy attack, which is not guaranteed to hit, but possibly will be blocked. The opponent receives 60% higher block meter or stamina, which means it is a risky move but can yield a potentially very high reward by overwhelming the enemy into exhaustion.
(3) or, as a 3rd option, use a GB, which is guaranteed.


But even if you use GB, this also will not give you any guaranteed damage, but put you into a state of a mindgame which the opponent has a chance to counter and escape from. GBs will now be changed to be more like "grapple" moves in other fighting games, so you are given a choice of:

(1) mild/medium damage attack moves = yields immediate damage, but no further advantages
(2) knockdown move = doesn't guarantee any damage except lights, but its utility will shine in team environments as a disabler move.
(3) directional input = same as we have.


So using a GB after a parry will not be an automatic decision, but rather one of the three choices given to you which you may choose upon the situation/tactics, rather than just automatically do it because it simply gives you a freebie heavy attack damage. But beware -- if you go into a GB, like other fighting games, the opponent is given a chance to break away from it by countering your light move with his light, heavy knockdown with his heavy, and position change with his own directional input.


Basically something like this is what I'd like to see in FH.

First of all, this is an excellent post and has some great ideas, you should defenitely create your own thread for this.
Second of all, I have some revenge rework ideas that you can put into that post if you are willing to create it and ofcourse agree with my ideas.I've already made a post with these ideas, and Jurrasic did reply, but again it would be nice if more people spread the message.

1.If only 1 player is locked onto you and hits you, revenge will not be gainable AT ALL
2.If 2 players locked on to you and both hit you atleast 2 times you revenge meter should start rising 15% per hit, and the revenge gain should quicken as more players are locked onto you and hit you (3 players = 25% gain, 4 players = 34%)
3.When activated revenge mode, your heavy attacks should be 50% faster and deal 33% more damage, while light attacks do %20 more damage and are only 10% faster (to prevent Assasin spam)
4.Charging attacks (Conqueror's and Warden's bash, Warlord's headbutt, etc.) should knock multiple people over in a small radius if 3 or more players are onto you
5.Revenge should last according to the number of players on you (2 players = 8 seconds, 3 players = 13, 4 players = 17)
6.Gear should not affect revenge (or any stats in general in my option, and be purely cosmetic, like Rainbow Six Siege or Team Fortress 2)
7.Attacks in revenge mode should be blockable (only if 3 or more players are currently on you), and players in revenge mode cannot be guardbroken (2 or more)
8.Revenge should not be gainable by your own attacks

UbiNoty
04-15-2017, 11:33 PM
Thanks all for the really great suggestions! We do realize there is a disparity between attack vs defensive playstyles and you all have given us a bunch of cool ideas for how to approach the current turtle meta problem.
Appreciate it guys! :D

MilkyBob.
04-15-2017, 11:40 PM
Thanks all for the really great suggestions! We do realize there is a disparity between attack vs defensive playstyles and you all have given us a bunch of cool ideas for how to approach the current turtle meta problem.
Appreciate it guys! :D

Also take into consideration ranked mode, it would bring a lot of competitive players to the game (Season 2 addition maybe?)

UbiNoty
04-15-2017, 11:44 PM
Also take into consideration ranked mode, it would bring a lot of competitive players to the game (Season 2 addition maybe?)

There definitely is a ranked plan in the works - we've just...got a lot of stuff to take care of first >.< So unfortunately we haven't been able to provide anything solid about it or set a date for it yet. It's coming though! I can't wait!

CandleInTheDark
04-15-2017, 11:48 PM
There definitely is a ranked plan in the works - we've just...got a lot of stuff to take care of first >.< So unfortunately we haven't been able to provide anything solid about it or set a date for it yet. It's coming though! I can't wait!

For what it's worth I think you're working on the right stuff, connection and balancing. I know you're committed to two heroes a season but I honestly woulld not have complained if you wanted to skip that until the matchups were better and release four in season 3 since adding more is adding another haystack to the one your needles are hiding in.