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View Full Version : All Vanguard Need A Patch. And About Shugoki.



GitGlad
04-12-2017, 07:31 AM
First I'd like to talk about the vanguard characters a minute. So it is what 2-3 months into for honor being out, people have learned the game and I think it is time the vanguard need a heavy patch to make them a bit more complex. I haven't play the vanguards much since beta for pne simple reason. That reason being that they are boring. Their movesets are bland and chains are nearly non existent. For instance the warden; you pary and block until you drain their stamina then you vortex and maybe throw a feint or two in there. People complain about this being op and spammy, and it is but it is also all you can really do as warden. Or how about raider where you just end up throwing people around like a ragdoll and then use zone untill you exhaust yourself. This just is not fun, after a game or two it gets stale to the point I hop back on my Lawbringer.

Now about Shugoki; Am I the only one who thinks Shugoki, is a character that just should not be in the game? I understand that the Samurai need a heavy to kinda balance it out. But Shugoki just does not fit, he is basically Roadhog with a big club. Its stupid to me, to being playing a game where the characters are somewhat based in reality, but then there is an obese guy running around like a damned athlete and swinging an unrealistically large club like a world renowned body builder. Really what a character weilding a kanabo should be, is a guy about the size of Kensei, with a club slightly shorter and slightly thicker than a bo. For game purposes make the guy a bit buff and give him a bit more armor. Thats not even to mention how Shugoki is just a chese character. Cant be interrupted, two or three hits with its unblockable, can launche you 5 feet, and one hit you when nearly dead. In my opinion the character should just not exist.

Please share your thoughts and opinions on both of these things.

escacleo
04-12-2017, 08:39 AM
First no mention of Kensei (my main) with the 5 min telegraphed moves and an unblockable that takes 5 years to complete that everyone can parry and only really usable with wall stun. Good thing it's feightable into anything but a GB negates the side uninterruptible no matter how fast you feight the unblockable . But Kensei isn't that bad it is what it is. Middle of the road.

Shugoki really needs a overhaul. The one hit kill sure easy to dodge but if close to you seems impossible. If he misses though it's goodnight. ONI Charge should be removed or allow dodging to completely negate and allow for punish either allowing a free hit OR complete stamina drain. No stamina drain if connect but instead of knock back. Just knock down without side displacement. Also remove teammate knock down.

Joseph_2017
04-12-2017, 08:39 AM
Well I kinda see him like a sumo style not just an obese guy. He's slow so high damage is fair. Besides he can only do a 2 hit combo. As for the unblockable it can be parried easily since its predictable, also 2 light attacks will stop it. Besides sumo style isn't all fat they have tremendous strength. Just think of it like Mark Henry(pro wrestler)with a club, the guy was massive.

matt89connor
04-12-2017, 09:31 AM
First I'd like to talk about the vanguard characters a minute. So it is what 2-3 months into for honor being out, people have learned the game and I think it is time the vanguard need a heavy patch to make them a bit more complex. I haven't play the vanguards much since beta for pne simple reason. That reason being that they are boring. Their movesets are bland and chains are nearly non existent. For instance the warden; you pary and block until you drain their stamina then you vortex and maybe throw a feint or two in there. People complain about this being op and spammy, and it is but it is also all you can really do as warden. Or how about raider where you just end up throwing people around like a ragdoll and then use zone untill you exhaust yourself. This just is not fun, after a game or two it gets stale to the point I hop back on my Lawbringer.

Now about Shugoki; Am I the only one who thinks Shugoki, is a character that just should not be in the game? I understand that the Samurai need a heavy to kinda balance it out. But Shugoki just does not fit, he is basically Roadhog with a big club. Its stupid to me, to being playing a game where the characters are somewhat based in reality, but then there is an obese guy running around like a damned athlete and swinging an unrealistically large club like a world renowned body builder. Really what a character weilding a kanabo should be, is a guy about the size of Kensei, with a club slightly shorter and slightly thicker than a bo. For game purposes make the guy a bit buff and give him a bit more armor. Thats not even to mention how Shugoki is just a chese character. Cant be interrupted, two or three hits with its unblockable, can launche you 5 feet, and one hit you when nearly dead. In my opinion the character should just not exist.

Please share your thoughts and opinions on both of these things.

shoguki oni has no realistic sense, kill only with 1 blow, broke game for me,ok, remove life if fall but, i think oni should only do dmg and relief a few points of life,not 40% of health, c'mon!! this game, is or not a simulation of real fight?

MrForz
04-12-2017, 10:21 AM
Shugoki's kinda funny. The man defies the very law of physics.

Moondyne_MC
04-12-2017, 10:57 AM
Shugo's physical appearance in this game doesn't bother me in the slightest, I don't play games for realism. His kit, however, is another matter.

He's not so bad in a 1v1 mostly, assuming the player isn't a top notch parrier. Anything more enemies than that and the Shugo becomes the worst, cheesiest bastard of a character ever. As soon as a teammate is present, all a Shugo will do is try and back break you while his teammates pound on your helpless body. If you try and focus on him, and dodging his attacks, you instead eat damage from the other enemies.

God help you if you have to ever fight 2 Shugo's in a 4v4 mode. Not fun.

Jancis15
04-12-2017, 11:24 AM
Shugo's physical appearance in this game doesn't bother me in the slightest, I don't play games for realism. His kit, however, is another matter.

He's not so bad in a 1v1 mostly, assuming the player isn't a top notch parrier. Anything more enemies than that and the Shugo becomes the worst, cheesiest bastard of a character ever. As soon as a teammate is present, all a Shugo will do is try and back break you while his teammates pound on your helpless body. If you try and focus on him, and dodging his attacks, you instead eat damage from the other enemies.

God help you if you have to ever fight 2 Shugo's in a 4v4 mode. Not fun.well as orochi i regulary dodge in 1vs4 when revenge pops up. It probably works only with Orochi and Kensei for others dodge atack isnt as good.

Vordred
04-12-2017, 11:40 AM
Don't think the Warden will ever get Changed. people were saying in the Alpha and Beta tests, that he was a bit to basic. but the Devs really like him the way he is.

for me, the warden is my favourite from a thematic point of view, it's the one i wanted to main, but he is pretty boring. as it's all about the shoulder bash, which gets pretty tiresome. the guy with the Longsword spends more time hitting you with his shoulder than sword fighting.

Gray360UK
04-12-2017, 12:08 PM
Shugoki's kinda funny. The man defies the very law of physics.

Always find it funny that you can pancake toss a Shoguki with a Lawbringer. Should be more realistic, either your pole axe handle should snap, or after lifting him half way your own back should break. Would save the Shoguki the trouble of breaking it for you a few seconds later anyway ;)

GitGlad
04-12-2017, 08:13 PM
First no mention of Kensei (my main) with the 5 min telegraphed moves and an unblockable that takes 5 years to complete that everyone can parry and only really usable with wall stun. Good thing it's feightable into anything but a GB negates the side uninterruptible no matter how fast you feight the unblockable . But Kensei isn't that bad it is what it is. Middle of the road.


I didn't mention Kensei, because I have for honor on my xbox and have not been able to play around with post patch kensei. Since the patch is not out yet. However, he is definitely preferable over the other vanguard, you can mix up the fight a little more.

CandleInTheDark
04-12-2017, 08:23 PM
Don't think the Warden will ever get Changed. people were saying in the Alpha and Beta tests, that he was a bit to basic. but the Devs really like him the way he is.

for me, the warden is my favourite from a thematic point of view, it's the one i wanted to main, but he is pretty boring. as it's all about the shoulder bash, which gets pretty tiresome. the guy with the Longsword spends more time hitting you with his shoulder than sword fighting.

I've played warden to rep one and that was only when I was rep one myself so only really low level play but the two hits to the side followed by top heavy is a neat chain and you can then feint that top heavy the next time to try for a crushing counterstrike, side feints to guardbreak once they dodge, the feint game isn't as advanced as the kensei's but it gives options.I had a mirror match where we had three duels and tossed out the shoulder bash perhaps five times between us.

RoosterIlluzion
04-13-2017, 02:51 AM
You're delusional. Kensei is a freaking ***** now. He can feint ten ways to Tuesday, plus now has 3(?) unblockables.

GitGlad
04-13-2017, 03:15 AM
You're delusional. Kensei is a freaking ***** now. He can feint ten ways to Tuesday, plus now has 3(?) unblockables.

I already said in an earlier reply that since I am on console I haven't been able to try out post patch kensei.

bmason1000
04-13-2017, 05:10 AM
Arent the vanguards specifically designed to BE basic characters? Especially warden. He is literally the introductory character.

GitGlad
04-13-2017, 06:06 AM
Arent the vanguards specifically designed to BE basic characters? Especially warden. He is literally the introductory character.
Yes, however its a few months into the release of the game, I think they can start making them a bit more complex. Otherwise we'll always have wardens running around vortexing everyone.

Supercool5150
04-13-2017, 07:51 PM
Well I kinda see him like a sumo style not just an obese guy. He's slow so high damage is fair. Besides he can only do a 2 hit combo. As for the unblockable it can be parried easily since its predictable, also 2 light attacks will stop it. Besides sumo style isn't all fat they have tremendous strength. Just think of it like Mark Henry(pro wrestler)with a club, the guy was massive.

WOW!!! A Mark Henry reference. I like it...My reference wrestler would be King Kong Bundy..LOL

bmason1000
04-13-2017, 10:04 PM
Yes, however its a few months into the release of the game, I think they can start making them a bit more complex. Otherwise we'll always have wardens running around vortexing everyone.

What about players new to the game? Also, why is a character or anything thats intentional by design expected to change every few months?

MrForz
04-13-2017, 11:42 PM
Some characters are bound to change or have their combos and openers list enlarged for the sake of having enough tools at your disposal to break turtles open.

GitGlad
04-14-2017, 10:36 PM
What about players new to the game? Also, why is a character or anything thats intentional by design expected to change every few months?

Why shoukd there be characters that cater to new players? Most non vanguards are not hard to play at all. In beta I only played a vanguard in the tutorial and otherwise used conq, on release I jumped straight to lawbringer after tutorial. The vanguard should not have to be chatacters comprised of 2 button cheese chains. One button if you use raider, all you have to do is spam zone. And even if they are starter characters, that doesn't mean they should be doomed to always have a movelist with no depth to it, it should at least teach new players how to chain.

We_Wuz_Kongz
04-15-2017, 12:12 AM
Fix exploits/bugs > Character balance