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SirRegisKeg
04-12-2017, 02:42 AM
I'll Keep It Short and Simple, He's My Main, Favorite Character and like all the other characters he's cool as hell. That being said, I'm purposing two ways to fix one of his biggest issues, Hurd-BUrTTz:nonchalance:


1) My personal choice if given the opportunity, is to completely take it away, Remove it. Real warlord fans will adapt, plus he's got plenty more tools where that came from.

2) Take away the spam crazy free Light hit Combo he get's after using the headbutt, it's way too simple and is mindless.

Any other serious warlord mains/fans drop your point of view and or Feedback.

I know it can't be avoided but I'm asking for serious discussion , not the "he should be removed completely" type of discussion, even though i'm sure it's coming.
warlord fixes let them be read, boiz

Edit: I'd also like to add that i've won games now without using the headbutt entirely, did it with mind games and his hyper/Super(Whatever) armor that allows him to tank enemy attacks. Relied solely on that he can still win games some possible evidence that he has one too many tools

UbiJurassic
04-12-2017, 02:56 AM
Thanks for the feedback, SirRegisKeg! What are everyone else's thoughts on future changes to Warlord?

Chucky_Jones
04-12-2017, 03:07 AM
I'm not a warlord main, but as a kensei main I have no ways to open defensive players, so it is always frustrating when I am having a good fight that involves skill and mind games with a warlord, but as soon as the warlord gets to 1 bar of health he stops taking risked entirely and headbuts my health away. I think that warlord has plenty of tools to be viable without the headbutt. I know that the headbutt was made punishable in the last patch, but it is still super hard to dodge without predicting it, and if the warlord gbs instead then you are screwed. I am actually fine with him having the headbutt as long as the light is removed.

SirRegisKeg
04-12-2017, 03:21 AM
I'm not a warlord main, but as a kensei main I have no ways to open defensive players, so it is always frustrating when I am having a good fight that involves skill and mind games with a warlord, but as soon as the warlord gets to 1 bar of health he stops taking risked entirely and headbuts my health away. I think that warlord has plenty of tools to be viable without the headbutt. I know that the headbutt was made punishable in the last patch, but it is still super hard to dodge without predicting it, and if the warlord gbs instead then you are screwed. I am actually fine with him having the headbutt as long as the light is removed.

Yea i've been testing fights with other warlords to see if I can beat them without using it (I have successfully beaten all other high level characters ) and I wish I'd saved some replays because what happens in a Warlord vs Warlord duel is proof of what i'm talking about, So after countering/out playing their play styles they all resort to nothing but headbutt, and in a high level fight you go for what's most efficient. It becomes a drawn out experience where they will headbutt my entire life bar down. Proving it's just way too safe a move. especially when warlord has other tools. All of which become obsolete when you can just constantly headbutt a better player then flee when you need more stamina.

Edit: When I say headbutt i'm referring to the combo headbutt-to Light Hit

Varicose_Veins
04-12-2017, 03:25 AM
Thanks for the feedback, SirRegisKeg! What are everyone else's thoughts on future changes to Warlord?

The zone attack does too much damage. Even on a Raider with his large health bar it does a whole block of damage.

SirRegisKeg
04-12-2017, 03:33 AM
The zone attack does too much damage. Even on a Raider with his large health bar it does a whole block of damage.

it does alot of damage but is super easy to parry/block it will always come from the right of your view and he loses a decent amount of stamina for doing so. It's usually used as a last hit of a chain. Try using it on someone in high level they won't be falling for it forever. also warlord doesn't have high damage combos like other characters. Might be a simple fix for your raider man

Bob__Gnarly
04-12-2017, 06:50 AM
Is this thread for real?

Headbutt just got nerfed in the last patch. It now uses more stam and is more reactable and punishable. It's fine the way it is now. People have adapted and counter it all the time.

Are you seriously suggesting removing it from his moveset? We need to expand movesets, not make them smaller.

Chucky_Jones
04-12-2017, 08:27 AM
Is this thread for real?

Headbutt just got nerfed in the last patch. It now uses more stam and is more reactable and punishable. It's fine the way it is now. People have adapted and counter it all the time.

Are you seriously suggesting removing it from his moveset? We need to expand movesets, not make them smaller.
You can say it got more punishable and reachable, but that only matters if the change is significant. It is still super hard to dodge and it has insane range and tracking. I won't speak for everyone, but I don't want the headbuktt to be removed. I either want the light to not be free, or for the headbutt to be actually reactable and risky.

SirRegisKeg
04-12-2017, 12:35 PM
Is this thread for real?

Headbutt just got nerfed in the last patch. It now uses more stam and is more reactable and punishable. It's fine the way it is now. People have adapted and counter it all the time.

Are you seriously suggesting removing it from his moveset? We need to expand movesets, not make them smaller.

Fact is lots of people still have problems with it. I'm saying I can clutch games with using it. And he really does have way more tools

Jazz117Volkov
04-12-2017, 12:56 PM
I main Warden and don't have too much trouble with Warlord. I don't think the headbutt is particularly worse than, well, any other bash attack...Shugoki headbutt, Lawbringer pole bash, Warden shoulder, Conquer shield, etc. Warlord might be a bit more cheese with follow up light, but if any adjustments are made, they should probably be small. It's more about incentives than anything; give the Warlord more incentive to use the other tools. If you're spamming headbutt because it's your best option then it just might not be the headbutt's fault.

SerArthur-Dayne
04-12-2017, 12:59 PM
Meh, I definately dont think it needs to be removed. MAYBE it could be a little more telegraphed, or a tad easier to dodge. But honestly I dont know if I would change it, I dont want to go breaking other peoples heroes if it can be learnt and avoided.

Sorta off topic (Sorry OP), but some other balance changes that I feel this game desperately needs are;

--Warden in totally helpless when fighting nobushi. I think it pretty far past what could be considered rock, paper, scissors balancing. She dosent need a nerf at all, but Wardens just need some way to open her up for attack atm. Parries count for nothing, cant even get a light attack in. Shoulder bash is never going to happen when youre starting from outside spear range, you need to chage a bash, and nobodys getting hit by that. GB is impossible due to being held at range. So you just get left with 2 moves (zone attavk, and landing a crushing counterstrike). Fight a semi vompetent nobushi, and they will hold a left guard so zone attack never gets them, and they wont feed you any top attavks, especially if you land one or two on them. I think a parry should at least allow a light attack, or even a GB. I dunno, just something to attack her.

--Shogoki and Valks. When fighting any of these in a pair, is just bash to floor spam, or grab spam.... But there is no counter to this, and no way to punish them if they fail. Especially when in revenge mode. Dont have any solutions to fix it, but please dont make any more heroes like this moving forward. I think thet are fine heroes in 1v1's, but in a pair its just a giant cheeze stack of ez singles.

TBH_Saeko_Irri
04-12-2017, 01:35 PM
Sure screw more the warlord no problem after all its fair to do this cuz some people can't adapt and learn to counter warlord who has no other opener move and now after update is so freaking easy to dodge the HB but people dont want this they only want to have an easy fast and clean win. So go on Ubisoft "fix" warlord more I am sure all of those people complaining now will continue to do and will do it for all champions except the one they play with ... Thanks in advance I am playing a warlord and I look forward to "fix" him once again.

Aarpian
04-12-2017, 03:09 PM
Thanks for the feedback, SirRegisKeg! What are everyone else's thoughts on future changes to Warlord?

His kit is massively overloaded:

Armour on heavies
Super block on lights
Special parry on lights
High damage
Fast lights
Headbutt (very hard to avoid, drains enemy stamina, combos into free damage)
2 sprint attacks (large range high damage lunge that combos into free damage unless dodged or parried and an unblockable guard break)
Massive throw distance
Tiny recovery frames on dodge
Omniblock that gives guaranteed damage if he blocks anything, and a lot, too
Active block frames during dodge
Fast, high damage, huge tracking zone attack

Why the hell does he have all of this? The only things he doesn't have are deflect and high range. You need to tone it down massively.


A thought experiment for you; if you gave conqueror super armour on heavies, light parries, increased shield bash speed, Warlord's throw, reduced his dodge recovery frames and put guaranteed damage off omniblock, you would almost definitely call him OP - But he would still be weaker than warlord

Pope138
04-12-2017, 03:18 PM
They've already talked about how they'll be nerfing the headbutt (already done on pc). It won't start as quickly, there will be more recovery frames and it will cost stamina.
As a warlord main, I think a stamina cost is all that is needed to keep it from being spammed, but whatever.
Also, that free light attack does hardly any damage.

corazondedelfin
04-12-2017, 03:51 PM
His kit is massively overloaded:

Armour on heavies
Super block on lights
Special parry on lights
High damage
Fast lights
Headbutt (very hard to avoid, drains enemy stamina, combos into free damage)
2 sprint attacks (large range high damage lunge that combos into free damage unless dodged or parried and an unblockable guard break)
Massive throw distance
Tiny recovery frames on dodge
Omniblock that gives guaranteed damage if he blocks anything, and a lot, too
Active block frames during dodge
Fast, high damage, huge tracking zone attack

Why the hell does he have all of this? The only things he doesn't have are deflect and high range. You need to tone it down massively.


A thought experiment for you; if you gave conqueror super armour on heavies, light parries, increased shield bash speed, Warlord's throw, reduced his dodge recovery frames and put guaranteed damage off omniblock, you would almost definitely call him OP - But he would still be weaker than warlord

And then Orochi has 3 things in his kit and 1 of them (deflects) doesnt do anything. HAHAHHAAH

Balanced videogame xD Super balanced videogame lolol

Knight_Gregor
04-12-2017, 04:13 PM
Is this thread for real?

Headbutt just got nerfed in the last patch. It now uses more stam and is more reactable and punishable. It's fine the way it is now. People have adapted and counter it all the time.

Are you seriously suggesting removing it from his moveset? We need to expand movesets, not make them smaller.

Maybe I'm just getting old, but it's still way too fast for me to react to.

TheLastPandaa
04-12-2017, 04:50 PM
Im not an expert on the Warlord, in fact im just R5 with him by now but i have notice a few things:

1. He is a very solid character: Good defence but his atacks are very slow and can be easily countered. There is only one thing that disengages with his mechanics: The Headbut in all its variances.

2. The only way to counter the headbut is predicting it because (at least on ps4 with its 30fps) once you see the flames, 90% of times is allready to late to dodge.

3. Never the less, the granted amount of dmg that Warlord can deal after a Headbut is VERY VERY LOW (less dmg than a normal light would do because the rest of atacks that can follow the light atack can be easily blocked, dodged and countered) so is not really a big thing. It is more anoying and confusing for your oponent than anything else (just like some LB combos before the patch). But i understand it can be a real problem when players start spaming it, so i propose the following:

My solution:

1. Increase the stamina cost and let the headbut at a similar level as the conquerors SB so he can do it only 3 or 4 times.
2. If that still not solve the problem, the time to get it charged could also be increased until the lv of conquerors SB so now it can be easily dodged and punishable.

With those changes, and the ones you allready made on him on the last patch i think Warlord might work better in the game.

Edit to add: IF UBI NERF WL TOO MUCH, AFTER WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO THE CONQUEROR, THE SHUGOKI WILL EAT US ALL.
Please, fix the shugoki before touching the WL. I think that is more urgent in deed.

SirRegisKeg
04-12-2017, 04:53 PM
Meh, I definately dont think it needs to be removed. MAYBE it could be a little more telegraphed, or a tad easier to dodge. But honestly I dont know if I would change it, I dont want to go breaking other peoples heroes if it can be learnt and avoided.

Sorta off topic (Sorry OP), but some other balance changes that I feel this game desperately needs are;

--Warden in totally helpless when fighting nobushi. I think it pretty far past what could be considered rock, paper, scissors balancing. She dosent need a nerf at all, but Wardens just need some way to open her up for attack atm. Parries count for nothing, cant even get a light attack in. Shoulder bash is never going to happen when youre starting from outside spear range, you need to chage a bash, and nobodys getting hit by that. GB is impossible due to being held at range. So you just get left with 2 moves (zone attavk, and landing a crushing counterstrike). Fight a semi vompetent nobushi, and they will hold a left guard so zone attack never gets them, and they wont feed you any top attavks, especially if you land one or two on them. I think a parry should at least allow a light attack, or even a GB. I dunno, just something to attack her.

--Shogoki and Valks. When fighting any of these in a pair, is just bash to floor spam, or grab spam.... But there is no counter to this, and no way to punish them if they fail. Especially when in revenge mode. Dont have any solutions to fix it, but please dont make any more heroes like this moving forward. I think thet are fine heroes in 1v1's, but in a pair its just a giant cheeze stack of ez singles.

Haha atleast you apologiezed before jacking my thread, my advice because it sounds like you haven't tried this. (Warden is my second main) dodge sideways after Nobushi flashes the red attack icon
You will notice she becomes Royaly effed , because she has a big gap in her defense from the side. You can attack, start the Vortex or GB. Almost all her attacks, are a straight line. That's why they keep so much distance. Once you get close also don't stop attacking

Edit: nothing you can do about valks, shugoki and lawbringer, as of yet in a 2v1 their abilities in jumping people are, crazy. So be the first to uncover a strategy to counter being dropped on your back and stomped to death

SirRegisKeg
04-12-2017, 05:07 PM
Im not an expert on the Warlord, in fact im just R5 with him by now but i have notice a few things:

1. He is a very solid character: Good defence but his atacks are very slow and can be easily countered. There is only one thing that disengages with his mechanics: The Headbut in all its variances.

2. The only way to counter the headbut is predicting it because (at least on ps4 with its 30fps) once you see the flames, 90% of times is allready to late to dodge.

3. Never the less, the granted amount of dmg that Warlord can deal after a Headbut is VERY VERY LOW (less dmg than a normal light would do because the rest of atacks that can follow the light atack can be easily blocked, dodged and countered) so is not really a big thing. It is more anoying and confusing for your oponent than anything else (just like some LB combos before the patch). But i understand it can be a real problem when players start spaming it, so i propose the following:

My solution:

1. Increase the stamina cost and let the headbut at a similar level as the conquerors SB so he can do it only 3 or 4 times.
2. If that still not solve the problem, the time to get it charged could also be increased until the lv of conquerors SB so now it can be easily dodged and punishable.

With those changes, and the ones you allready made on him on the last patch i think Warlord might work better in the game.

[B][COLOR="#FF0000"]

Couldn't agree more very solid character, like raider at the "dotted line" so to speak, in terms of ability and skill it should take to use him. What pushes him over that line is the headbutt. The mix-up is way too safe and cheese rewarding. And like I've said before I can clutch games without using it. Because he has way more tools. How many people can say they use his stamina punch after a successful parry. Not many.

After losing headbutt playing with him would get slightly more difficult. But he would not be broken after losing it.

scrubbyjimbob
04-12-2017, 08:01 PM
I really don't get all the hate on the WL headbutt when in all honestly the push attacks of the warden, conqueror and lawbringer are all spammed way more than most WL's use their headbutt(at least from what I've seen in the PC population). It's not even that good of a move, it let's you land a quick light stab that does minimal damage IF you follow up fast enough, often i end up swinging the normal light attack instead of the stab. Part of the reason some have trouble dodging it is you have to be pretty close for it to land, much closer than the warden or conqueror. Most WLs use it more as a gap closer or to counter one of the previous mentioned classes pushes than anything else. If any more changes are made to it, I feel it needs to be done across board to all push attacks instead of just targeting a specific class. How about eliminating free attacks off pushes in general? Make it where you're just dazed like after the raider ax butt strike, where you're able to react still but you don't get the indicator. While you're at it give some of the pushless classes(like the berzerker) a move that has comparative results. It just makes more sense since what's bothering people the most apparently is the free attack(though lots of classes get them).

scrubbyjimbob
04-12-2017, 08:13 PM
Edit to add: IF UBI NERF WL TOO MUCH, AFTER WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO THE CONQUEROR, THE SHUGOKI WILL EAT US ALL.
Please, fix the shugoki before touching the WL. I think that is more urgent in deed.

The only thing I'd honestly suggest is broken on shugoki is their hug. No other class gets a move that allows you to heal yourself, feats yeah, but not an actual moveset item that I'm aware of(by no means an expert here lol). Leave the move in play, just eliminate the heal and damage taken if you miss it.

TheLastPandaa
04-12-2017, 09:24 PM
The only thing I'd honestly suggest is broken on shugoki is their hug. No other class gets a move that allows you to heal yourself, feats yeah, but not an actual moveset item that I'm aware of(by no means an expert here lol). Leave the move in play, just eliminate the heal and damage taken if you miss it.

There are a few more things wrong with the shugoki:

Insta kill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8RKRqej5zE

"High lv" play Exploit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_f6iMmxVcQ&t=10s

SlashingElbow
04-12-2017, 09:27 PM
You can say it got more punishable and reachable, but that only matters if the change is significant. It is still super hard to dodge and it has insane range and tracking. I won't speak for everyone, but I don't want the headbuktt to be removed. I either want the light to not be free, or for the headbutt to be actually reactable and risky.

people like you destroyed battlefront and now u are destroying whats left of this disconnecting game,, Stop your bs nerf requests and let them focus on fixing the connection problems

Bob__Gnarly
04-13-2017, 12:14 AM
Edit: I'd also like to add that i've won games now without using the headbutt entirely, did it with mind games and his hyper/Super(Whatever) armor that allows him to tank enemy attacks. Relied solely on that he can still win games some possible evidence that he has one too many tools

I'm sure there are Wardens that can also win without using their vortex, does that mean we should remove it? You can say the same thing about every class really, doesn't mean we should strip them of their tools. What you'd have at the end of the day is a very basic game, which would get boring fast.

I can also win without using headbutt, because it's not even that good. It's just a pressure tool, a way to open up your opponent and play mind games. It's already been nerfed, consoles haven't even played with the tweaked headbutt yet... Let the changes sink in for a bit before you ask for even more nerfs. I can guarantee you that if you remove headbutt, Warlords would just turtle even harder.

It's no longer a safe move anymore (never was for top players), in my opinion, it's fine now.

SirRegisKeg
04-13-2017, 04:23 PM
I'm sure there are Wardens that can also win without using their vortex, does that mean we should remove it? You can say the same thing about every class really, doesn't mean we should strip them of their tools. What you'd have at the end of the day is a very basic game, which would get boring fast.

I can also win without using headbutt, because it's not even that good. It's just a pressure tool, a way to open up your opponent and play mind games. It's already been nerfed, consoles haven't even played with the tweaked headbutt yet... Let the changes sink in for a bit before you ask for even more nerfs. I can guarantee you that if you remove headbutt, Warlords would just turtle even harder.

It's no longer a safe move anymore (never was for top players), in my opinion, it's fine now.

Non-turtle warlord here. I Personally want it gone because of how I can destroy people and they give me the salty paragraph, about my broken headbutt. Despite not having used it. Not getting into any fixes for other characters, but we know warlords got plenty tools. But yea if they keep it just makes my play easier:rolleyes: