PDA

View Full Version : Discussion: Shugoki Charge of the Oni (Video)



xLeapingLizardx
04-10-2017, 11:54 PM
Starting this off with this short, somewhat funny, clip:

https://vimeo.com/212666322

My thoughts:
You should not be ran over by the shugoki if you are mid roll....
You may say just dodge it. But then a shugoki has 2 options when they are running up to you: Charge or guardbreak. Charge and dodge ok cool, dodge but he does a guardbreak, you then cant counter it.
Rolling away mostly works because you cannot be guardbroken when rolling and 60% of the time you will successfully roll out of the Charge's way. But then it becomes a Shugoki running at you fight what are you going to do, you have to me a psychic to guess what he'll do.

For example: lets say he is running after you you dodge roll out of the way he missed the Charge, (y'all have distance between you now) he comes running in again you dodge roll and he can't get the guardbreak off. Rinse repeat now you out of stamina and are dead meat because you cant roll lol.

Also why does the character who gets charged fly towards the most random direction, such as in the video?

Anyways let me know you guys' thoughts on it.

UbiJurassic
04-11-2017, 12:25 AM
We've seen a lot of talk about the issues players have with "Big Shug" and his Oni Charge. We're interested to hear players thoughts on it as well.

Kiiyor
04-11-2017, 01:49 AM
We've seen a lot of talk about the issues players have with "Big Shug" and his Oni Charge. We're interested to hear players thoughts on it as well.

Well, I main the fat man, and... it's a bit much, but it's one of his only sources of misdirection. He has no real mixups outside the charge/GB, and against certain characters (like the Conq) he has no safe moves at all outside of the charge (as evidenced by a few of the finals in the last couple of tournaments).

I think it's spammability needs to be changed. It's a nice way to open a fight, but it's also almost completely safe to disengage and repeat after attempting it, and it's that safety that leads people to spam it, IMHO. I've seen quite a few nice suggestions for changing it, (mostly around penalizing stamina regeneration or by putting the ability on a cooldown) but here's my 10c:

Slightly lower the free stamina window for short charges, and Increase the cooldown for stamina regeneration to kick in after the charge, depending on how many stamina segments you have used.
i.e.
no segments (short charge): an extra 200ms;
1 segment: an extra 400ms,
2 segments, 600 (or more), etc.

I get that the fat man is supposed to be the embodiment of a vengeful Oni, but there's still a lot of lard under that laquered timber to lug around. That sort of sprint has to put more stress on an already stressed cardiovascular system :)

I guess what i'm trying to do is limit how much control the Shug has over opening a fight, by limiting his ability to fight after spamming the ability. A player that uses it too much would put themselves at an enormous disadvantage against a player willing to put pressure on them, and a canny enemy would be able to avoid the first few charges and deliberately goad the Shug into exhausting themselves.

THWLR14
04-11-2017, 01:54 AM
This is from a tournament, and I use that term loosely, most matches looked like this with Shugoki present: https://clips.twitch.tv/CoweringTallEmuHassaanChop

"Very intense."

There are plenty of suggestions as to how Shugoki's Charge of the Oni can be re-worked or balanced, just have a look in Suggestions & Feedback section.

For example Stamina Cost adjustment on Hit and/or Miss needs to be looked at; charge of the Oni knocks down all players in its path, a case could be made that it should not reward Shugoki a free Heavy or Light attack after the fact as it is a powerful Disable/CC move. Finally, giving players a window of opportunity to Punish Shugoki who whiffs his charge (which is currently impossible as Shugoki is out of range for Punish) should also be discussed.

kweassa1917
04-11-2017, 02:10 AM
We've seen a lot of talk about the issues players have with "Big Shug" and his Oni Charge. We're interested to hear players thoughts on it as well.

Jur, It's actually a common problem that needs a look on all classes with "charge" type of attacks. It's just that the Shugoki Oni Charge is so much more pronounced and obvious. The Conq, Lawb and Raider does essentially the same thing but just suffers a lot more 'near-misses' due to having smaller hit-detection area.

In other words, the Conq, Lawb and Raider could be just as annoying if the player behind these classes 'drive around' in the exact same manner and just have a lot better aim than most.

Realistically speaking a run-up-to-charge move would require a build-up of momentum upto a certain amount to be able to knock a person down -- and what it seems is that in FH, this 'build up' time is only determined by the total distance traveled in sprint-state regardless of the sudden and abrupt directional change, which in real life, would force you to either slow down and lose momentum, or fall over on your side.

IMO this can be fixed by implementing directional limits so that if you zig-zag too much during a sprint the 'conditions' required to fire up a charge-move will be reset, so while sprinting you can make only small adjusments -- not be able to run in tight circles and eights and then immediately fire up a charge the moment you turn to face the opponent.

IMO a little compensation would be required so that the overall 'build up momentum' time is shortened slightly, and the speed of the charge attack is increased slightly. So basically every 'charge-move' will telegraph a run-straight-toward you phase before it activates, but as compensation will require less distance traveled during sprint, and higher charging speed so it doesn't become totally useless and too easy to evade.


My 2 cents.

UbiJurassic
04-11-2017, 02:25 AM
Appreciate the great feedback so far guys! I'll be passing it along to the team. :)