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View Full Version : What has happened to the spirit of this game?



Ontari
04-10-2017, 01:55 PM
I had this game on my radar since the first trailer hit the Internet, probably as majority of you. I've been hyped since the first seconds of it and was waiting eagerly on the tests.

I was lucky enough to get myself to Closed Alpha and Closed Beta, and of course I participated in the Open Beta. And this game was ABSOLUTELY A BLAST. It was a dance of blades, blood, glory, adrenaline and just a beautiful show.

People were whirling around themselves, attacking, countering. The game had this aggressive feel to it, the urge to kill your enemy with style.


And then, the release came, weeks passed.

I'm not some pro of this game, or whatever, yet I'm matched with really good guys, with high rep levels. And what do I see?

I see a guy, just standing here, watching to parry me. This gives him a free option, which is safe, so he uses this opportunity. So for the 2/5 or 4/5 of the fight, he just waits for this parry. When he/she is a class with spam potential (Warden's vortex, Conq's shield bash, etc), he parries 2/5 of the fight, leaving the rest for the spam fest. I he doesn't have a spam potential, he parries in 4/5, adding zone attacking to the rest.

I mean... the game lost all of it's spirit guys. I know, people get better and they just use what is efficient, but that is not how I imagined people's progress in this game. We have a game with so beautiful animations, so much mixup possibities, it should be an eye-catching balet of 2 warriors, not waiting for doing one or two tricks... It is just so sad to watch how all of the potential of this game is getting wasted...


I don't know, maybe this is only how I feel, but for me the reward for parrying is far too much, making players using only this option in their combat. Why not making this game more dynamic? More like in the times when people were getting to know this game, using ALL of the possible arsenal, not just 1,2 tricks?

Draghmar
04-10-2017, 02:00 PM
That's because majority of people plays to win (which is quite reasonable) and don't care how they achieve that. It's really doesn't differ from the real life.
But on the bright side not everyone plays like that. For example I care less for winning and I play for my idea of fun. For example I try to not to deliberately throw out of ledges. ;)

Gray360UK
04-10-2017, 02:05 PM
I think that's because there were a lot more people playing casually, for fun, with no regard for their K/D or W/L, without ego and pride, in the Alpha and the Betas.

As a playerbase shrinks, naturally over time or for other reasons, you are mostly left with the people who take the game far more seriously.

You can see this reflected in the forums to a degree as well, with an increased emphasis on high level play, esports, tournaments and so on.

Personally, I'm still all about the fun :)

Ontari
04-10-2017, 02:05 PM
This is the problem that I get to - that the ways to win in this game is just to parry or just doing your character's spam (if it has such option).

This shouldn't be a way to win all the time. The duels are not worth the time anymore, 95% of the time it is a parry waiting fest... this is so against the very idea of videogames - which are for entertainment, not for boring your ar*se off...

And I really don't mind enviromental kills - they spice the game up a lot. Well... at least if you can counter it, not being thrown off some ledges after dayum parries. Bur of course, some maps have these enviromentals designed fatally..

corazondedelfin
04-10-2017, 02:20 PM
The game is ruined, I have said it many times, and you Ontari yourself didnt support me at one of that times for example.

Its obvious what you said and has no solution, but I have been saying it for a long time! No character should be able to spam a move or parry to win, thats "P2W" (ironic, but its true) and spam vortexs to win...

Its just a sad game that has me trapped due to the damn bug of the ACTIVE DUTY trophy.

I just wish It could be different, It was a dream of a game in the beta and the FULL YEAR I was waiting for it. And now look at me and how much I hate Ubisoft once again for what they did to this potential masterpiece.

Herbstlicht
04-10-2017, 02:26 PM
Guess 90% of the playerbase would sign this. A game where you could tactically use all your moveset ...one can always dream, eh?

Ontari
04-10-2017, 02:27 PM
!!AN IDEA!!

Why not making parry only a stamina burner? REMOVE THE FREE ACTION GRANTED BY PARRY, and just leave it for blocking unblockables (oh, the irony...) and burning your enemy's stamina?

It will be then used as another tool to defeat your enemy, not an ultimate solution for everything!

Fangzored
04-10-2017, 02:37 PM
!!AN IDEA!!

Why not making parry only a stamina burner? REMOVE THE FREE ACTION GRANTED BY PARRY, and just leave it for blocking unblockables (oh, the irony...) and burning your enemy's stamina?

It will be then used as another tool to defeat your enemy, not an ultimate solution for everything!

That's a terrible idea, it would just widen the already tremendous gulf between the classes with safe ways to open up people and those that don't, anyone without a bash into guaranteed damage or assassins would become 100% worthless.

As a LB i HAVE to sit there and wait for a parry opportunity because i have NO OTHER OPTIONS, that's the real problem. If every character had viable offensive options parry wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue.

Pope138
04-10-2017, 02:54 PM
Turtling opponents haven't been an issue for me. Feinting and unblockables open them up pretty consistently.

The game is ruined, I have said it many times, and you Ontari yourself didnt support me at one of that times for example.

Its obvious what you said and has no solution, but I have been saying it for a long time! No character should be able to spam a move or parry to win, thats "P2W" (ironic, but its true) and spam vortexs to win...

Its just a sad game that has me trapped due to the damn bug of the ACTIVE DUTY trophy.

I just wish It could be different, It was a dream of a game in the beta and the FULL YEAR I was waiting for it. And now look at me and how much I hate Ubisoft once again for what they did to this potential masterpiece.

What? You don't purchase light attacks, parries, or vortexes. What are you talking about?

Ontari
04-10-2017, 02:54 PM
@fangzored

You clearly hadn't played with "top" players then.

And I don't see your logic... My second character after the Kensei is Orochi - an assassin. And in his case, I never really rely on parry. I just feint a lot, mess with my oponent with dodges, etc. I think that this really is an only option out there. Parry would still be usefull, but not the one and only way.

Btw... if you think that you can open up a real turtle with parrying him... I don't even get you. Most turtles that I encountered almost never attack...

KotoKuraken
04-10-2017, 03:21 PM
What? You don't purchase light attacks, parries, or vortexes. What are you talking about?
He said "parry to win...P2W" as a pun of pay to win

Pope138
04-10-2017, 03:54 PM
He said "parry to win...P2W" as a pun of pay to win

Oh. How hilarious.

Seriously, thanks for clearing that up. I would've never picked up on it.

Gray360UK
04-10-2017, 04:23 PM
This is the spirit of the game if you ask me ... ;)

https://media.giphy.com/media/wPbrr9AsOSxt6/giphy.gif

(me on my Berserker in a random Elimination match last night, I don't know these people)

razabak10mm
04-10-2017, 04:25 PM
The OP needs moar ax hump. Pick up the raider and follow the directions in this video to increase the enjoyment of For Honor by at least 40%

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0p83F7NU6mI

Shadow.A07
04-10-2017, 05:08 PM
The OP needs moar ax hump. Pick up the raider and follow the directions in this video to increase the enjoyment of For Honor by at least 40%

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0p83F7NU6mI

Mark my words this game will end up like the division with everything watered down and every patch something is over powered. But thats not the issue here, people are gonna cheese this game the best way they can for instance people would hesitate to gank you because of the old revenge mechanic this has changed, instead people are more ambitious to gank.

Dont get me wrong I love seeing 2 or 3 players coming at me for a fight because that simply makes the fight easier for me. However since the revenge nerf more skill is required to take on 2 or 3 people which is fine. But mark my words once high end fighters learn how to survive from this change and hence will become more deadly then people will complain again. This means that low level player is gonna complain more, it means the ganking friends are gonna say revenge needs more nerfing. Water it down water it down.... My advice to ubisoft which wont count as my post is nothing more then iinsignificant is the following. Which is also somehow arrogrant as I have no idea what it requires to implent what I suggest.

(1) Place stamina cost on unblockable attacks and/or shield spam that is consecutively repeated.

(2) Set matchmaking to bring single players together first and in so doing set matchmaking to pair up people in parties with other people in parties after x amount of time add that party to the normal queue.

(3) Apply a very minor stamina cost for been in a non active combat stance when only one player is registered as been in a combat stance also if another player enters the range to trigger their combat stance then the stamina cost does not apply. The stamina cost will apply if only one player is attacking after x amount of time or x amount of parried or blocked attacks in which case the defender will begin to lose stamina while in a non active combat stance. This will force people to fight instead of the ill just wait and block meta.

(4) Apply x amount of revenge gain when you recieve the same combo triggered damage three times in a row.

(5) Apply revenge duration extension for each enemy that strikes you in 1vs3 situations. So if only two players are attacking you, your gear based time for revenge will apply. If another player applys any attack that hits you in any form revenge time gain will apply.

BunnyRawrr
04-10-2017, 05:53 PM
That's a terrible idea, it would just widen the already tremendous gulf between the classes with safe ways to open up people and those that don't, anyone without a bash into guaranteed damage or assassins would become 100% worthless.

As a LB i HAVE to sit there and wait for a parry opportunity because i have NO OTHER OPTIONS, that's the real problem. If every character had viable offensive options parry wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue.

I wouldnt say the same way he did. But some ligth atacks should actually not be parryeble. And some heroes should be able to parry as they want.
For example conquerer(because he is a really defence focosed hero) should be able to parry ligth and heavy. Orochi/Berserk should be able to side step and ligth hit without the worry of getting parried. Hybrids/Assassins should have clear way on her first hit. And stuff like that.

Trying bring some figth to the game would get your parrys on LB and also leave some space for attack type heroes to atack. Since most heroes if they get the first hit they try to get some more in, leaving space for you to get a parry and since they will never be able to kill u with a ligth atack u will always have a way to to feint and get a parry on heavy atack!

corazondedelfin
04-10-2017, 06:01 PM
Oh. How hilarious.

Seriously, thanks for clearing that up. I would've never picked up on it.

Yes, Im hilarious. Thats exacly what most of you people think.

But then you go into my Oroshi statistics and you say: Holy sh*t this guy is hilarious and a crazy awesome non-turtle Oroshi.

And them BAM, I tell you that im a Scientific too :cool:. And raider is my alt hero!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p83F7NU6mI

Fangzored
04-10-2017, 06:08 PM
@fangzored

You clearly hadn't played with "top" players then.

And I don't see your logic... My second character after the Kensei is Orochi - an assassin. And in his case, I never really rely on parry. I just feint a lot, mess with my oponent with dodges, etc. I think that this really is an only option out there. Parry would still be usefull, but not the one and only way.

Btw... if you think that you can open up a real turtle with parrying him... I don't even get you. Most turtles that I encountered almost never attack...


I'm sorry if i worded my reply poorly, what i meant to say is that anyone OTHER than assassins and people with bashes would be useless without parries, and that is a FACT because they would have no good ways to deal damage, feints would become absolutely worthless in a world where no one parries anything(RIP Kensei) and slower characters would just get their attacks interrupted all day by assassin lights without the possibility of punishing them for it.

I never claimed i could open up turtles...i said many people have to resort to turtling because they don't have viable attack options...the "top" players either use safe bash moves, fast assassins attacks, or parries to deal damage, if you remove parries you're not adding more damage options, you're removing the only universal one.

Ontari
04-10-2017, 06:59 PM
I've never said to remove a parry.

It is a viable tool,. With draining enemy's stamina, and maybe enhancing this a bit, this would be defensive tool to slow down aggressive attackers - defensive, as parry is a defensive move.

With guarding the unblockables, it is already a powerfull option. I am a Kensei main, and believe me, it's really sad that everyone can block my most powerful move (and people are growingly learn to block the soft feint :D). Yet this is all good, you can always throw them to the wall !


So I just think, that with those two features parry is already a powerful move you can make, and a guaranteed free action (even if you can't GB after parry because of reach, you still have a guaranteed hit from attack, be it light or heavy) is simply TOO MUCH. It makes the "high level" play simply boring, eliminating all the other options that this game has. And with time, more people will become "high level players", and the situation which already becomes a festival of boredom will only get worse.

MrForz
04-10-2017, 07:09 PM
Well, I'm there, with my own spirit. After countless duels on both Warden and Zerker I've become far too aggressive for my own good. I know it's wrong, I know it causes some of my losses. But honestly I'm coming to a point where I want to hit stuff. I can only reliably pull that stuff off in Dominion where there are things that need doing.


Yes, Im hilarious. Thats exacly what most of you people think.

But then you go into my Oroshi statistics and you say: Holy sh*t this guy is hilarious and a crazy awesome non-turtle Oroshi.

And them BAM, I tell you that im a Scientific too :cool:. And raider is my alt hero!!

Sounds more like a vampire sucking the credit off others.

Ontari
04-10-2017, 07:17 PM
Yeah, it found out that now my favourite gamemodes are dominion and skirmish, sometimes elimination. There is actually stuff goin on there, you have unpredictable situations, fighting off multiple opponents, fighting in tight clutches with your teammates, constantly changing targets. It is very entertaining and gives me that pre-release feel.

Which is a shame, because I always considered duel as an ultimate standoff of skill. No gear, just skill. Well, it isn't anymore, at least in roughly 3/4 of the cases.

DrExtrem
04-10-2017, 09:02 PM
The spirit of the game is broken and mine is as well.

I am done - even the buggy mess of the division did take longer.

Matchmaking is a joke. In a game, that is working in milliseconds and not frames, playing against players with a red bar is just crap. It is impossible to parry and to block them. You are getting matched with players so good, that you can lay the controller down. Two matches this evening and I was a filler for players, that simply left. You join at a 700 to 1 score in dominion. My previous mmream mates managed to kill one ****ing soldier.
Same in the match before.

As for the players: Most of them are abusing some kind of loop attack and / bugs. The amount of players abusing the locker bug, is staggering.

The whole game is a massing of bugs, glitches and imbalances.

Factions are broken as well - at least half of the player base, seems to play for the samurai now.

With the last server sided update, the level two bots turned into level three ones as well. Fainting attacks like pros, turtle and always use the perfect counter, based on my input, while not loosing stamina and rolling around in corners to avoid getting hit (despite the blade going right thru them).

In short: Now, the game looks stupid, it feels stupid and it plays stupid. It was fun for almost two months. Great job.

Ontari
04-10-2017, 09:21 PM
Man, this is not another ****posting thread. I actually point just to "games meta" etc. Don't offtop it.

And in fact, I disagree in some points.

Factions - I haven't noticed some large advantage of samurai players. Emblems that I see are of all shapes, mixed pretty well.

And lvl 2 bots? Man they are not that hard. And if they got harder, it's better! Player skills are increasing, so bots have to adapt to keep you entertained man.

iAlwaysL0se
04-10-2017, 09:24 PM
This is the spirit of the game if you ask me ... ;)

https://media.giphy.com/media/wPbrr9AsOSxt6/giphy.gif

(me on my Berserker in a random Elimination match last night, I don't know these people)

LMFAO! I almost laughed myself out of existence! This is so true Gray! Thanks for the laughs pal! :D

DrExtrem
04-10-2017, 09:32 PM
Man, this is not another ****posting thread. I actually point just to "games meta" etc. Don't offtop it.

And in fact, I disagree in some points.

Factions - I haven't noticed some large advantage of samurai players. Emblems that I see are of all shapes, mixed pretty well.

And lvl 2 bots? Man they are not that hard. And if they got harder, it's better! Player skills are increasing, so bots have to adapt to keep you entertained man.

Its not entertaining, if the level two bots start to cheat and ignore mechanics.

Why are people playing vs. bots and accept lower rewards? Because they are fed up with pvp or want actual fights.

Ontari
04-10-2017, 09:36 PM
At least bots don't turtle.

You can defend against a feinter and still kill him.

WoodDaGawd
04-10-2017, 09:41 PM
Now the bots are cheating.


im soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo dead

DrExtrem
04-10-2017, 09:48 PM
At least bots don't turtle.

You can defend against a feinter and still kill him.

I had bots that turtled like hell. Level two bots.

So annoying

ViciousOphidian
04-10-2017, 10:00 PM
Irecently returned to the game(casual player) and it feels very strange indeed. It seems like 10% of the players learned all the combos and the other 90% left the game, so i have to cheese all my fights in order to stand a chance at winning. Not to mention i get matched vs players with 108 so 1 light attack from them equals 2 heavies from me. Fun times.
P.S. I chuckled when i noticed you can no longer see the number of players in-game.

Bob__Gnarly
04-10-2017, 10:48 PM
Sadly the game has become a bit tedious and boring. The population has shrunk and most of the casuals have bailed due to many reasons, mainly connection issues, balance (lack of) & poor matchmaking.

For me, the turtle meta has really taken its toll on the game. It's simply a boring way to fight, but also the most optimal. They really need to make a big change to shake things up there, otherwise people will continue to have stare down matches only utilising 1 or 2 safe moves. This isn't why i bought the game. In my opinion, they need to think about beefing up chip damage or something, right now it's barely noticeable and fix all the broken tech. I think those areas would be a good starting point.

Classes are still nowhere near equal footing balance wise. This leads to people mainly using top tier classes, which is a bit dull. The latest patch was a step in the right direction though.

The faction war is pointless and serves no real purpose other than to get an extra crate or two. It really adds nothing to the game. I could care less who wins the next round/season, if this was meant to get people more involved in the game, they kinda failed there.

Since the pop has shrunk, I'm left fighting the same small pool of players. While not all bad, it does get a little stale fighting the same peeps every night.

I'm at the point where I only login to complete dailies for a bit of steel each day and a couple dominion games. If season 2 doesn't add a lot of spark with the introduction of new classes/maps and hopefully some game changing tweaks, then I'm guessing the population will shrink even further.

Fangzored
04-10-2017, 11:32 PM
I've never said to remove a parry.

It is a viable tool,. With draining enemy's stamina, and maybe enhancing this a bit, this would be defensive tool to slow down aggressive attackers - defensive, as parry is a defensive move.

With guarding the unblockables, it is already a powerfull option. I am a Kensei main, and believe me, it's really sad that everyone can block my most powerful move (and people are growingly learn to block the soft feint :D). Yet this is all good, you can always throw them to the wall !

You might as well be saying to remove parry with your suggested change. The risks of a parry(missed timing, feint bait, etc) is much too high for an inconsequential reward like stamina drain, considering how hard it is to punish exhausted players with most classes.

You don't understand that the currently rewarding parry mechanic is what makes feinting a viable tactic, if people aren't rewarded for the risk of parrying they'll simply block and your feints will become worthless stamina drains of your own, killing the advanced tactics you rely on to win currently.

You would need to implement sweeping changes to all classes, mechanics and kits to make your suggestion even close to viable, clinging to the delusion that that change alone could "fix" anything is getting kinda sad.

corazondedelfin
04-10-2017, 11:46 PM
Sounds more like a vampire sucking the credit off others.

You are completely stupid, but an assh0le aswell attacking me all the day. Did I kill you ingame? Sorry if I chopped off your head.

The credit is mine, read the previous posts and you will see. I made a good joke that the guy didnt realize... Im running out of patience with your stupidity, Forz..

UbiJurassic
04-11-2017, 12:34 AM
We are definitely aware of the "defense meta" that is present in the game right now. While we are presently working on the major issues with the game, we are investigating ways to give incentives for offensive play. Keep in mind that this may not be the final way we decide to resolve the "defense meta". Readjusting this will take time and we will keep everyone updated on our approach to it.

MrForz
04-12-2017, 02:44 AM
You are completely stupid, but an assh0le aswell attacking me all the day. Did I kill you ingame? Sorry if I chopped off your head.

The credit is mine, read the previous posts and you will see. I made a good joke that the guy didnt realize... Im running out of patience with your stupidity, Forz..

Nah. It's one of my guilty pleasures to look at the self-righteousness of some people. Also, in order to run out of patience, you'd need to have patience in the first place. :P


We are definitely aware of the "defense meta" that is present in the game right now. While we are presently working on the major issues with the game, we are investigating ways to give incentives for offensive play. Keep in mind that this may not be the final way we decide to resolve the "defense meta". Readjusting this will take time and we will keep everyone updated on our approach to it.

The ways are likely to fluctuate anyways. If any sort of move or attack was sure to land 100% right out of the blue that's the only thing people would be doing, because of its reliability. The healthiest incentive to attack would be increased and various opening movements with different effects on characters. The increased amount of different openers would force opponents to take a guess on enemy aggressions at the very start, and aggressivity might even be the key to counteract some openers. The Warden is on the right track as example since a good one, handling his openers will require opponents to block at the right direciton, to be ready to dodge OR purposely stand still with the threat of a Shoulder Bash cancel into GB, that makes one hell of an additional guess. The classes with nothing but attacks and no specials like a Berserker can be potentially rendered moot so long as one blocks in the right direciton while watching out for GBs, and feinting can only take him so far.

matt89connor
04-12-2017, 09:52 AM
just play for fun, and when an enemy kill you with great moves, give a "good fight" mess, not offense players who simply spam, but just tell you then the spam is hard to match with an "XD", and you see players who start play for fun :), most of the case,but always depends of the nature of the players, if he like play for fun or just for win an hate when he lose,by cry or quit, in that case you can't do anything...

Joseph_2017
04-12-2017, 11:20 AM
Yeah, everytime I'm aggressive in 1v1 it's always a guy waiting to parry. I only play 1v1 for orders only because of this.

Capoupacap
04-12-2017, 11:43 AM
the parry is too easy on PC, on console the defensive meta is a still efficient strategy but that can be blasted by quick light attack (witch is boring too :p)

But to be honest, I think the defensive meta is a good way to calm down player that think FH is a beat'm All kinda game :) :)