PDA

View Full Version : Warden shoudlerbash into guardbreak....



Haemmerst0rm
04-06-2017, 09:24 PM
Dear ubisoft.

In the stream, you claim that the GB needs to be sooner in the next patches while charging shoulder bash.

Don't. Just don't.

You removed it already on 2 classes, as example warlord: headbut cancel into guardbreak.
You better remove it for more fair gameplay instead of more cheesing tactics.
I know that warden is precious to you. But its vortex is powerful and the shoulderbash cancel into guardbreak is such cheesing tactic THAT this game does'nt need.

Thanks.

Iuslez_
04-06-2017, 09:35 PM
No, it is strong, but required in a game that favors defense that much. A 50/50 is good to force people to react and either take or do damage. Just make it that if the opponent guesses right, the warden gets punished (which means a whiffed SB = light or GB) and/or that the feint into GB has to be triggered before the charge is launched (so it is no longer reactive)

Also while reading about it today, I realised that almost every class can counter it : all classes with dodge-attacks counter it, all classes with fast light attacks can punish it on reaction. Raider car CGB during the dodge. It seems that the only class that can't counter it is the shugoki (his fast are too slow) and, since the update, the conqueror. Can hardly be considered OP when 10/12 characters in the game can counter it.

Iuslez_
04-06-2017, 09:38 PM
No, it is strong, but required in a game that favors defense that much. A 50/50 is good to force people to react and either take or do damage. Just make it that if the opponent guesses right, the warden gets punished (which means a whiffed SB = free light or GB) and/or that the feint into GB has to be triggered before the charge is launched (so it is no longer reactive)

Also while reading about it today, I realised that almost every class can counter it : all classes with dodge-attacks counter it, all classes with fast light attacks can punish it on reaction. Raider car CGB during the dodge. It seems that the only class that can't counter it is the shugoki (his lights are too slow) and, since the update, the conqueror. Can hardly be considered OP when 10/12 characters in the game can counter it.

sd_fungi
04-06-2017, 10:00 PM
The problem with the move combination is that most Heroes are unable to counter it. If you dodge they GB, if they are standing on your toes they will connect before you can counter with a light attack. If you don't dodge the bash hits. Most moves in the game have a solid counter, this move not so much.

kweassa1917
04-06-2017, 10:03 PM
No, it is strong, but required in a game that favors defense that much. A 50/50 is good to force people to react and either take or do damage. Just make it that if the opponent guesses right, the warden gets punished (which means a whiffed SB = free light or GB) and/or that the feint into GB has to be triggered before the charge is launched (so it is no longer reactive)

Welcome to what the rest of the class players have to live with.


Also while reading about it today, I realised that almost every class can counter it : all classes with dodge-attacks counter it, all classes with fast light attacks can punish it on reaction. Raider car CGB during the dodge. It seems that the only class that can't counter it is the shugoki (his lights are too slow) and, since the update, the conqueror. Can hardly be considered OP when 10/12 characters in the game can counter it.

You can dodge a bullet if you move before someone pulls the trigger. I think that means its totally OK for someone to pull out a gun on you.

sd_fungi
04-06-2017, 11:23 PM
Dodge attacks don't counter it, once you dodge it can be cancelled into GB. GB as intended tracks dodge and lands before the attack startup.

Pain-Seeker
04-07-2017, 02:19 AM
With warden its more like 33/33/33 . Normal bash with atks , cancel to GB , or feint the shoulder bash for parry . Thats way to fking OP for one move . Lets say i go for a dodge and he cancels it for free GB . Lets say i go for lights attks but he feints the shoulder bash and gets a free parry . Today i even encountered a warden which was charging it for a long time ,which is kind of unusual, and somehow lights didnt interrupt it and he got an overhead heavy on me . This move needs some tweaks.

THWLR14
04-07-2017, 03:19 AM
My belief that this functionality is bugged is based on how similar moves function in-game; Shoulder Bash being canceled into anything mid-animation is a bug and is not intended.

If Shoulder Bash had an inherent ability to do this, its Move Description (or it would be a Perk) would have stated it, exactly like it does when certain moves can be canceled or mix-ed up.

Best thing you can currently do is report it to Ubisoft.

OneTrueAlca
04-07-2017, 03:21 AM
Warden in my opinion is one of the most balanced hero, but the ability to guard-break made it quite unbalanced.

imagine Warlord/ Conq being able to cancel their bash, same with Valk charge into a GB, that would be insanely broken

CandleInTheDark
04-07-2017, 03:30 AM
With warden its more like 33/33/33 . Normal bash with atks , cancel to GB , or feint the shoulder bash for parry . Thats way to fking OP for one move . Lets say i go for a dodge and he cancels it for free GB . Lets say i go for lights attks but he feints the shoulder bash and gets a free parry . Today i even encountered a warden which was charging it for a long time ,which is kind of unusual, and somehow lights didnt interrupt it and he got an overhead heavy on me . This move needs some tweaks.

If I recall correctly, the warden is uninterruptable after his long charge, at the time he flashes white. So assuming I am right with that that works as intended.

The_B0G_
04-07-2017, 08:30 AM
Unlock>Roll
Wow, so hard.

Hardly a counter, rolling around the map doesn't get you hits on an enemy.

Extropy
04-07-2017, 10:24 AM
Man the mental gymnastics some of you will use just to save your precious crutch mechanic are hillarious.

"Hai guy you can just unlock>roll lmao noob!"

Oh yea, so every time he starts a charge I'm supposed to roll, using much more stamina than him, spending the entire match exhausted and then still getting hit by the vortex since you can't roll anymore when exhausted? Cool tactic bro.

"Gaise warden rly needs dis since defensive meta, lol k?"

That's like saying that in a situation where 10 people are in a knife fight, since knives are dangerous we should give a gun and a stab-proof vest to one of them to balance it out.

"Bros but warden is the only balanced class!"

Good one bro, it really doesn't matter if warden is overpowered or everyone else is underpowered, changes still need to be made to bring them all in line.

"You know you still get a 50% chance to defend from it noob!"

Name me one other move in the game where you have to guess what's coming next and can't defend against it on reaction regardless of your skill level. I'll wait.



P.S. I have a reputation 11 warden and the shoulder bash into gb sickens me, please fix it asap Ubisoft

darkspawn2101
04-07-2017, 10:37 AM
No, it is strong, but required in a game that favors defense that much. A 50/50 is good to force people to react and either take or do damage. Just make it that if the opponent guesses right, the warden gets punished (which means a whiffed SB = light or GB) and/or that the feint into GB has to be triggered before the charge is launched (so it is no longer reactive)

Also while reading about it today, I realised that almost every class can counter it : all classes with dodge-attacks counter it, all classes with fast light attacks can punish it on reaction. Raider car CGB during the dodge. It seems that the only class that can't counter it is the shugoki (his fast are too slow) and, since the update, the conqueror. Can hardly be considered OP when 10/12 characters in the game can counter it.

I'm reminded of a similar threat where the resident apologist went ahed and when 'you can interrupt it with a light"

Here's the thing. Right now, all classes with unblockables cant guardbreak out of them exept Warden. Now why should warden get a unfair advantage?

It's also worth noting that in cases like, say, Lawbringer, Warlord, they dont have alot of options -from- their unblockables. Warlord gets free damage, sure, but his headbutt is now slow. Lawbringer uses his shove as a pressure tactic. Nobushi gets guarenteed light and bleed which takes time.

Warden, is too strong. His mixup potential is too strong. The vortex, combined with guardbreak, combined with the speed of his top light and his ability to crushing counterstrike, -AND- his zone, give him too many options in the mixup game. He should have some, but not all.

Kaijudub
04-07-2017, 10:54 AM
Rep 14 warden here.

The only thing the warden needs imo is more stamina useage on his SB. Anyone thats fought me will hopefully agree that I definitely dont abuse the SB, but I definitely get it used on me when I face mirrors. Personally i have the timing down to be able to dodge it i'd say around 40% of the time, thanks to the level 3 warden bot for that help but when its the only thing a warden will do it does get frustrating to play against. Increasing the amount of stamina it takes to SB imo would help massively.

I play a more parry / feint style game which is fine for low level play but then when you get into high level defence meta sometimes the SB is the only way in, so if you remove the SB mixups you pretty much leave him with only light attacks so there is merit to the defence meta argument at least imo.

IMO Ubi needs to buff others to bring them to the supposed top 5 level, nerfing does nothing but frustrate those already invested.

Extropy
04-07-2017, 11:12 AM
IMO Ubi needs to buff others to bring them to the supposed top 5 level, nerfing does nothing but frustrate those already invested.

So because one character has a frustrating BS move, instead of removing that one move, we have to give EVERYONE frustrating BS moves of their own? Yeah, that sounds like fun.

kweassa1917
04-07-2017, 11:27 AM
So because one character has a frustrating BS move, instead of removing that one move, we have to give EVERYONE frustrating BS moves of their own? Yeah, that sounds like fun.

When there's nail sticking out of the box, you usually drive it back in. Of course, some people argue you need to pull all the other nails loose just as much, and that would solve problems. Those idiots usually break the box.

Kaijudub
04-07-2017, 12:10 PM
So because one character has a frustrating BS move, instead of removing that one move, we have to give EVERYONE frustrating BS moves of their own? Yeah, that sounds like fun.

Notice i mentioned a top 5, well read. I understand that its just easier to be that asshat than to actually digest what i wrote with an open mind.

Secondly yeah, the shoulder bash is a decent offensive move. If everyone had something similar it might actually make the game more fun and attack minded.

Kaijudub
04-07-2017, 12:11 PM
When there's nail sticking out of the box, you usually drive it back in. Of course, some people argue you need to pull all the other nails loose just as much, and that would solve problems. Those idiots usually break the box.

Confucius would concur that with an analogy like that, it is you who is the idiot.

Specialkha
04-07-2017, 12:19 PM
You should not be able to cancel SB into GB. If you guess wrong each time, a warden can perfect you. Seems fair.

Kaijudub
04-07-2017, 12:22 PM
You should not be able to cancel SB into GB. If you guess wrong each time, a warden can perfect you. Seems fair.

Says who exactly? The Devs in the most recent stream said the only thing they are looking at is how long into your charge you can cancel the guard break. This means its entirely intended, therefore theres nothing wrong.

Specialkha
04-07-2017, 12:26 PM
If we are taking the current situation, you can't dodge the SB>GB. SB should be a committed move, like shieldbash or headbutt. You can travel too far before canceling it into GB. Anyway, now that conq/warlord/pk have been nerfed (maybe they need another nerf, I do not know yet), it is the turn of Shugoki/Valk/Warden to get one. Then this game will be more enjoyable.

Extropy
04-07-2017, 12:28 PM
Says who exactly? The Devs in the most recent stream said the only thing they are looking at is how long into your charge you can cancel the guard break. This means its entirely intended, therefore theres nothing wrong.

Well if the yellow charge marker only flashed for a little bit when canceled into a GB, and if you could be 100% sure that it's not getting canceled as soon as you see the warden moving, that would be entirely fair and reactable. The problem that currently the warden already starts moving toward you and then GB's, forcing you to guess what he's gonna do and no matter what you're getting hit 50% of the time on average. How can you even defend this? And you want everyone to have a move like that? Would it be fun if they broke the defensive meta by just making blocks and parries randomly fail to work 50% of the time?

Kaijudub
04-07-2017, 02:31 PM
Well if the yellow charge marker only flashed for a little bit when canceled into a GB, and if you could be 100% sure that it's not getting canceled as soon as you see the warden moving, that would be entirely fair and reactable. The problem that currently the warden already starts moving toward you and then GB's, forcing you to guess what he's gonna do and no matter what you're getting hit 50% of the time on average. How can you even defend this? And you want everyone to have a move like that? Would it be fun if they broke the defensive meta by just making blocks and parries randomly fail to work 50% of the time?

The simple fact of the matter is people do defend against it and do beat people that play warden.

Do me a favour, equip the warden and go and fight a level 3 warden bot... Report back and let me know how well your vortex attempts go :)