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View Full Version : Why the conqueror needs massively nerfing



Mudflaaaps
04-04-2017, 02:16 AM
So, everyone's whinging about peacekeepers. To the point of them being banned from gamebattles tournaments. Bravo, you've successfully cried and made the most mediocre character banned.

What people don't seem to realise, is the conqueror is on a whole other level of overpowered-ness to the peacekeeper.

I have just seen a conqueror take on 4 good players, me included. We took it in turns to attack, he was getting thrown on the floor and against walls first then hit, he was getting revenge and pinned to the floor so revenge wasn't really the issue, 4 minutes of beating several shades of **** out of this guy and the round ends, default win to us.

How you may ask?

Because the conqueror is broken.

Conquerors have an impossibly good defense. Very quick stance change, If they block an attack it stops a combo and they can block whilst on the floor (like most characters but better, broken game).
On top of incredible defense, they can ALWAYS throw an uninterrupted light after a block. Sometimes a heavy if they're fast enough.
This would be ok to deal with. BUT.
They also get a feat which gives them health whilst blocking.

So the most defensive character in the game, who has nigh impenetrable defense, regenerates health by...defending.

This monster of a character spent 4 minutes, 4 MINUTES blocking endless attacks and regenerating health. 2 lawbringers, 1 kensei and 1 valkyrie couldn't beat him.

Why is that even possible!?
How could you create a game with such a ridiculous character!?
How have people got the peacekeeper banned, but don't seem bothered by the insanity that is the conqueror!?

As if all of that wasn't enough to make a game officially broken, he also activates revenge every 2 hits. Yep, every attack became uninterruptable. Broken mechanic stacked on broken mechanics.

Ubisoft have made some great games in their time but Christ, for honor is an absolute mess right now. Nerf the conqueror soon, because I guarantee when the peacekeepers ruined, the conqueror will rise as the king of being OP.

Viruletic
04-04-2017, 02:39 AM
He probably did his block all stance with revenge for infinite stamina and you guys kept attacking him to regenerate his health.

Ganks always end badly with revenge built characters. GB+teammate heavies then back off.

It also doesn't matter if you took turns, having 4 people locked on to him will fill his revenge meter faster.

STVRSEED
04-04-2017, 02:47 AM
G u a r d b r e a k .

ArchDukeInstinct
04-04-2017, 02:47 AM
A little late for April Fools, don't you think?

UbiJurassic
04-04-2017, 02:58 AM
We recently announced that we are bringing a slight nerf to conqueror during our weekly Warrior's Den livestream. We always appreciate more feedback regarding him from the community.

Mudflaaaps
04-04-2017, 03:07 AM
With all due respect, a light nerf is pointless. Over the next year, you'll lightly nerf every character, then rebuff them beyond believe, then continue in that fashion because that's what you do with all your games.
I mean you've already made valkyrie unbelievably good, lawbringer and orochi will be following in that fashion soon enough.

What's needed is a massive nerf to every character, get them all on a totally level playing field.
You even acknowledge that some characters are top tier, well why even have the lower tier in the game if they're so useless? Idiotic design right there.

I don't really understand how Ubisoft make such great, unique titles (RB6, division, for honor) and yet can't balance any of the PVP properly.
If I thought Ubisoft would honor basic consumer laws, I'd get my Ģ70 back to be honest. For honor is a mockery of what it should have been.

Mudflaaaps
04-04-2017, 03:27 AM
He was guard broken constantly, as well as thrown on floors and against walls as I stated. This wasn't a simple matter of one good person beating 4 poor players, this is one player with a broken character being able to defend against 4 people and regenerate health constantly. He had two lawbringers throwing him over their shoulder, whilst I hit him. He still blocked on the floor, FYI. Is that how they designed it? Conquerors can block whilst on the floor?

kweassa1917
04-04-2017, 04:04 AM
What you're experiencing is more of a combination of problems rather than about the Conq itself.

The Warlord/Conq problem stems from the fact that they are...

(1) prime beneficiaries of the current defense/turtle meta
(2) prime beneficiaries of the current back-to-back revenge mode spam meta,
(3) owners of a quick-spam unblockable attack that turns into a KD when in revenge mode -- in a game that doesn't have 'tech rolls' to get to your feet safely


Since both a Conq nerf and revenge mode nerf is annonced, let's just see how it turns out, and see if it does its job.

Mudflaaaps
04-04-2017, 11:47 AM
Well yeah, I know exactly what you mean. That's the more technical way of saying it.
Let's also not forget that they admitted the defense meta is too powerful and attacking doesn't reward you at all.

I understand that games have problems and issues on release, but Ubisoft take it to the next level. It's RB6:siege all over again but worse, as this game relies on more stats.
Guarantee, they'll keep giving certain players huge buffs and there will always be a top tier of characters, which is wrong imo.
I remain hopeful but tbh they'll just keep nerfing and buffing characters with no real conclusion or final equal balance.

Knight_Gregor
04-04-2017, 02:24 PM
I'm going to play devil's advocate here (I can almost feel everyone rolling their eyes, lol.)

During this time that you guys were beating the crap out of this conqueror. How many of you did he kill? Did you lose the match?
I understand that is not the point of your complaint, however - I'd bet if this were a/an Peacekeeper/Valkyrie/Orochi with a revenge build that he would've taken a few out with him.

I'm not advocating for revenge, nor a buff to the conqueror. Honestly when I get revenge everyone just runs away while I make a futile attempt to chase one of them down. When they don't, I take advantage like anyone else would. My point here is that the problem is most likely with revenge itself. And will hopefully be taken care of this upcoming patch. Why not wait and see if people are still having problems with the conqueror after the nerfs roll out before crying for a massive one?

atac56
04-04-2017, 02:25 PM
nerfing definitely isn't the answer. in terms of character balance this is the best its going to get without a complete overhaul of the game. I think limiting revenge to 1 activation per life and creating 4v4 gamemodes without gear stats is the best and easiest choice at this point because at the end of the day the gear stats and constant revenge activation is what kept that guy alive in your story

RatedChaotic
04-04-2017, 03:02 PM
Ya lets nerf this this and this all at the same time and see what happens....In my experience nothing good ever comes out of it.

TheLastPandaa
04-04-2017, 03:02 PM
After more than 400 hours playing For Honor since its release (16 days and 20 hours actually), i can grant you that Conqueror definitely does not need a nerf and anyone who says otherwise has no dea of ​​what he speaks.
What conqueror really needs is a TOTAL REMAKE on his moveset.

At the present moment, his only real tools are the perfect block and the shield dash. If you nerf any of those, you will breake that heroe. In fact the Shield dash is quite useless allready against any medium player for 2 reasons:
1. Stamina cost.
2. Super easy to dodge.

On the other hand Conqueror has to many weaknesses:
1. His light atacks are slow and the weakest in the game
2. His heavys are SUUPER SLOW and very very very easy to parry.
3. In the best cases you only get a granted light atack after you parry or GB your oponent. (Some times yo can hit with a side heavy atack, but depends on who you fight against).
4. His charged heavy (wich hits hard as a truck) leaves him exposed to a GB with no chance to CGB. And is as slow as a normal heavy atack.
5. He has an hablility similar to the deflect that gives you the chance to atack while you block. Awesome right? Well, no. It is risky and doesnt gran you any hit to your oponent.

So, in conclusion, conqueror doesnt need a nerf but a total remake of his moveset and his habilities.

Please, forgive my spelling. English is not my native language.

Dark.Knights
04-04-2017, 03:11 PM
After more than 400 hours playing For Honor since its release (16 days and 20 hours actually), i can grant you that Conqueror definitely does not need a nerf and anyone who says otherwise has no dea of ​​what he speaks.
What conqueror really needs is a TOTAL REMAKE on his moveset.

At the present moment, his only real tools are the perfect block and the shield dash. If you nerf any of those, you will breake that heroe. In fact the Shield dash is quite useless allready against any medium player for 2 reasons:
1. Stamina cost.
2. Super easy to dodge.

On the other hand Conqueror has to many weaknesses:
1. His light atacks are slow and the weakest in the game
2. His heavys are SUUPER SLOW and very very very easy to parry.
3. In the best cases you only get a granted light atack after you parry or GB your oponent. (Some times yo can hit with a side heavy atack, but depends on who you fight against).
4. His charged heavy (wich hits hard as a truck) leaves him exposed to a GB with no chance to CGB. And is as slow as a normal heavy atack.
5. He has an hablility similar to the deflect that gives you the chance to atack while you block. Awesome right? Well, no. It is risky and doesnt gran you any hit to your oponent.

So, in conclusion, conqueror doesnt need a nerf but a total remake of his moveset and his habilities.

Please, forgive my spelling. English is not my native language.

You don't want him nerf because you are really enjoy to spamming don't you?

TheLastPandaa
04-04-2017, 03:24 PM
You don't want him nerf because you are really enjoy to spamming don't you?

No, i main kensei, but i play with more heroes. In fact:

Kensei: R7
Nobushi: R6
Warden: R5
Conqueror: R5
Lawbringer: R2
Zerker: R3
Valk: R2

The rest of the heroes (warlord, pk, raider, shugoki and orochi are below rep 1.


***Edit to add: You are right, i dont wont him nerf, i wont him to be remake so he can be balanced like other heroes are.

Dark.Knights
04-04-2017, 03:32 PM
No, i main kensei, but i play with more heroes. In fact:

Kensei: R7
Nobushi: R6
Warden: R5
Conqueror: R5
Lawbringer: R2
Zerker: R3
Valk: R2

The rest of the heroes (warlord, pk, raider, shugoki and orochi are below rep 1.


***Edit to add: You are right, i dont wont him nerf, i wont him to be remake so he can be balanced like other heroes are.

But i see 90% of people use him do that spamming move to win, conq and val are totally big problem of this game.

TheLastPandaa
04-04-2017, 03:40 PM
But i see 90% of people use him do that spamming move to win, conq and val are totally big problem of this game.

I agree with you (not with what you sayed about valk, though), but that is because is the only tool that heroe has. Thats why i think he needs to get a remake. An other posible solucion would be to nerf his SD but buff other atributes. Otherwise the hero will become completly useless.

EothK
04-04-2017, 04:03 PM
This monster of a character spent 4 minutes, 4 MINUTES blocking endless attacks and regenerating health. 2 lawbringers, 1 kensei and 1 valkyrie couldn't beat him.

Why is that even possible!?
How could you create a game with such a ridiculous character!?
How have people got the peacekeeper banned, but don't seem bothered by the insanity that is the conqueror!?

As if all of that wasn't enough to make a game officially broken, he also activates revenge every 2 hits. Yep, every attack became uninterruptable. Broken mechanic stacked on broken mechanics.

Ubisoft have made some great games in their time but Christ, for honor is an absolute mess right now. Nerf the conqueror soon, because I guarantee when the peacekeepers ruined, the conqueror will rise as the king of being OP.

Not saying he isn't tough to kill, but you had a LB in your team, why not just Long Arm flip him when blocking? It's a cheap move but for these occassions a perfect tool. It's unblockable so guarding doesn't help. If he decides to dogde he's open to all kinds of attacks for the rest.
Honestly sounds like you just keep wailing at him as a gank team rather than just taking him down and out.

RatedChaotic
04-04-2017, 04:09 PM
Yep clearly a L2P issue. If you had a disabler on your team. He clearly was not doing his job. Next time I suggest making a video. Because there were ways to counter him. You all just failed to do so.

Aarpian
04-04-2017, 04:43 PM
So, everyone's whinging about peacekeepers. To the point of them being banned from gamebattles tournaments. Bravo, you've successfully cried and made the most mediocre character banned.

What people don't seem to realise, is the conqueror is on a whole other level of overpowered-ness to the peacekeeper.

I have just seen a conqueror take on 4 good players, me included. We took it in turns to attack, he was getting thrown on the floor and against walls first then hit, he was getting revenge and pinned to the floor so revenge wasn't really the issue, 4 minutes of beating several shades of **** out of this guy and the round ends, default win to us.

How you may ask?

Because the conqueror is broken.

Conquerors have an impossibly good defense. Very quick stance change, If they block an attack it stops a combo and they can block whilst on the floor (like most characters but better, broken game).
On top of incredible defense, they can ALWAYS throw an uninterrupted light after a block. Sometimes a heavy if they're fast enough.
This would be ok to deal with. BUT.
They also get a feat which gives them health whilst blocking.

So the most defensive character in the game, who has nigh impenetrable defense, regenerates health by...defending.

This monster of a character spent 4 minutes, 4 MINUTES blocking endless attacks and regenerating health. 2 lawbringers, 1 kensei and 1 valkyrie couldn't beat him.

Why is that even possible!?
How could you create a game with such a ridiculous character!?
How have people got the peacekeeper banned, but don't seem bothered by the insanity that is the conqueror!?

As if all of that wasn't enough to make a game officially broken, he also activates revenge every 2 hits. Yep, every attack became uninterruptable. Broken mechanic stacked on broken mechanics.

Ubisoft have made some great games in their time but Christ, for honor is an absolute mess right now. Nerf the conqueror soon, because I guarantee when the peacekeepers ruined, the conqueror will rise as the king of being OP.

I've taken the liberty of bolding and underlining all the ******** in the OP to make it easier to read.

You could have just guardbroke/parried the living **** out of him.

Mudflaaaps
04-04-2017, 07:14 PM
Is pointing out an obvious design flaw crying? No, it's constructive criticism. If people didn't complain about broken game mechanics then nothing would change.

He killed several of us, but obviously as it was 4v1 we revived each other.

A peacekeeper could never take on 4 people, because she can't regenerate health. Peacekeepers aren't even that powerful imo.

Yes, revenge being nerfed/fixed may help a bit.
However, even without revenge this guy would be able to regenerate his health from every defend (which is stupidly easy with a conqueror), resulting in a pointless fight.

I mean I know for honor isn't the most realistic game in the world, but really? Gaining health from being hit? What kind of backwards logic is that?

TheLastPandaa
04-05-2017, 12:41 AM
Is pointing out an obvious design flaw crying? No, it's constructive criticism. If people didn't complain about broken game mechanics then nothing would change.

He killed several of us, but obviously as it was 4v1 we revived each other.

A peacekeeper could never take on 4 people, because she can't regenerate health. Peacekeepers aren't even that powerful imo.

Yes, revenge being nerfed/fixed may help a bit.
However, even without revenge this guy would be able to regenerate his health from every defend (which is stupidly easy with a conqueror), resulting in a pointless fight.

I mean I know for honor isn't the most realistic game in the world, but really? Gaining health from being hit? What kind of backwards logic is that?

I really think you complain about the wrong things in the wrong way.
That perk you talk about is not by far the worst thing of the conqueror and yet you make a world out of it. Shugoki can oneshot you and regenerate about 1/3 of his health with his demons embrace (not to mention his broken traking system) and thats seems ok for you, but hey, the perk to regen health on the conqueror on each block is OP...

Now let me ask you a few things:
Did you try to feint?
Did you try to guard break? (is the easyest thing to do when he is on full block mode btw)
Did you try to parry?
Did you try to stop spaming?

In case you did not know, Conqueror (thanks to his perks and his pasive habilities) is the most tanky heroe of the game (huge defense and huge life) and his rol is precisely to be able to deal against various oponents at the same time while he protects A or C until the reinforcements from his team arrives. If in the other side your team is dumb enough to spam at a high level conqueror, then you really deserve to die in the way you did.

At this point i really think you would probably have died as well if instead of a conqueror you were fighting against a decent dueler player with a Raider for example. But there is something im not sure about. In that case, would you open a post complaining about the Raiderīs Zone atack being OP?

As i have sayed before, there are many things wrong with the Conqueror. MANY. He is broken in many ways and he really deserve a whole remake (not a nerf) of his habilities and moveset, but in my opinion what you complain about just shows your lack of experience.

And please, forgive my spelling. English is not my native language.

Bob__Gnarly
04-05-2017, 01:12 AM
I agree.

Simply nerfing shield bash will not fix the conq, it will make him useless because its all his got. He's a really poorly designed character, he needs an overhaul.

Lionardudu
04-05-2017, 01:33 AM
I agree.

Simply nerfing shield bash will not fix the conq, it will make him useless because its all his got. He's a really poorly designed character, he needs an overhaul.

This.
I like a lot the apparence of conqueror so i play him at start but after some time I stop playing him cause is so boring and limited.
All you can do aganist good players is SB > Light and a feint with allblock if i feel lucky.
For the rest wait and hope for a GB.

(you can glich the charged heavy, but i dont want to support this style of play.)